I don't think I'm being selfish here.
October 17, 2008 10:00 AM Subscribe
Where the hell did all the nice people go? This is not chatfilter. This is a serious question about why there's so much negativity, how to cope with it and how I can find other nice people.
I am a decent human being, I think. If someone is driving erratically behind me, I get over so they can pass. I may curse at them for scaring me, but I always think "he's probably late for a meeting or something." If I have a cartful of groceries at the market, and the person behind me has a tiny carry-basket with like 5 things in it, I let them go in line ahead of me. If the person in front of me is $1 short, I give them a dollar if I have it to spare.
And I don't do these things with Karma in mind. I do it because I hope that one day, if I'm feeling like crap and just have 2 things to buy, but the person in front if me has a whole damn basket, they'll let me go ahead of them. If I'm a dollar short buying groceries, I never think that someone should give it to me - it'd be nice if they did, but I don't count on it. In fact, I've NEVER been told I could go ahead of someone in line because my 2 items are far less than their 50 items. And I've never been given cash when I'm short by a dollar at the grocery store. There is a gross amount of negativity and it's starting to really affect me.
My point: I was supposed to go to the farmers market this morning with my best friend. After we made the plans last night but before this morning, my bank account went overdrawn because of AIG taking out 2 insurance payments instead of one. Apparently, they need money to pay for a hunting trip or something, I dunno. My check will be here at 1pm, so I'm only short for a couple of hours, which I can handle. But that means that I couldn't go at 10am. Now, had the positions been reversed, I would have told her that "we're only going to be spending $10 each anyway. Just pay me back whenever you can - if that's when you get your check in an hour or so, cool." Because it's only $10, and she's my best friend. I don't really think about getting it back. But instead of saying something similar, she said "oh, okay well call me later if you're still up for it."
My first thought was that maybe she just didn't think about offering up the cash. But then the more I thought about it, the more I realized that she's actually ALWAYS been this way. Even with a buffer - maybe I'm viewing myself as too generous, maybe she's not as stingy - it still shows me that I give more in our friendship than she's willing to. Even to a point of not offering to loan me $10 for a couple of hours or picking me up when I drop my car off at the auto shop or letting me borrow a crockpot - especially when these are things I've done for her without question.
Do any of you come up against this sort of thing, where you're the Givers and you find yourself only around the Takers? How do you cope with constantly being around negativity? And I guess my big question, how can I find other "nice" people? I'm not talking about people that'll randomly give me $20 (but hey, who doesn't turn that down?); more like, how do I find people that do the Do-Unto-Others crap? How do I find people that have a bit more common courtesy than the rest?
I am a decent human being, I think. If someone is driving erratically behind me, I get over so they can pass. I may curse at them for scaring me, but I always think "he's probably late for a meeting or something." If I have a cartful of groceries at the market, and the person behind me has a tiny carry-basket with like 5 things in it, I let them go in line ahead of me. If the person in front of me is $1 short, I give them a dollar if I have it to spare.
And I don't do these things with Karma in mind. I do it because I hope that one day, if I'm feeling like crap and just have 2 things to buy, but the person in front if me has a whole damn basket, they'll let me go ahead of them. If I'm a dollar short buying groceries, I never think that someone should give it to me - it'd be nice if they did, but I don't count on it. In fact, I've NEVER been told I could go ahead of someone in line because my 2 items are far less than their 50 items. And I've never been given cash when I'm short by a dollar at the grocery store. There is a gross amount of negativity and it's starting to really affect me.
My point: I was supposed to go to the farmers market this morning with my best friend. After we made the plans last night but before this morning, my bank account went overdrawn because of AIG taking out 2 insurance payments instead of one. Apparently, they need money to pay for a hunting trip or something, I dunno. My check will be here at 1pm, so I'm only short for a couple of hours, which I can handle. But that means that I couldn't go at 10am. Now, had the positions been reversed, I would have told her that "we're only going to be spending $10 each anyway. Just pay me back whenever you can - if that's when you get your check in an hour or so, cool." Because it's only $10, and she's my best friend. I don't really think about getting it back. But instead of saying something similar, she said "oh, okay well call me later if you're still up for it."
My first thought was that maybe she just didn't think about offering up the cash. But then the more I thought about it, the more I realized that she's actually ALWAYS been this way. Even with a buffer - maybe I'm viewing myself as too generous, maybe she's not as stingy - it still shows me that I give more in our friendship than she's willing to. Even to a point of not offering to loan me $10 for a couple of hours or picking me up when I drop my car off at the auto shop or letting me borrow a crockpot - especially when these are things I've done for her without question.
Do any of you come up against this sort of thing, where you're the Givers and you find yourself only around the Takers? How do you cope with constantly being around negativity? And I guess my big question, how can I find other "nice" people? I'm not talking about people that'll randomly give me $20 (but hey, who doesn't turn that down?); more like, how do I find people that do the Do-Unto-Others crap? How do I find people that have a bit more common courtesy than the rest?
Best answer: In my experience "takers" are really just the psychologically wounded or emotionally underdeveloped. So they aren't really "taking", they just don't have the resources to give. You are asking them for something they don't have.
If there was a community of givers, wouldn't the takers find out about it and move in? You are always going to be an island of courtesy. But that's better than the alternative.
posted by ewkpates at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2008 [9 favorites]
If there was a community of givers, wouldn't the takers find out about it and move in? You are always going to be an island of courtesy. But that's better than the alternative.
posted by ewkpates at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2008 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I meet nice people every day, wherever I go, in abundance. I am surrounded by them. You need to dump the people you are hanging out with now and find better people.
posted by LarryC at 10:12 AM on October 17, 2008
posted by LarryC at 10:12 AM on October 17, 2008
This is a serious question about why there's so much negativity
The only negativity I'm reading in this question is yours. You are expecting other people to read your mind, and you're disappointed when they don't. Start asking for the things you need, you may be surprised at the things people are willing to do for you. That said, if your friend was unwilling to front you $10, that doesn't make her "negative" or a bad friend; it just makes her a friend you can't go to when you need cash.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:12 AM on October 17, 2008 [21 favorites]
The only negativity I'm reading in this question is yours. You are expecting other people to read your mind, and you're disappointed when they don't. Start asking for the things you need, you may be surprised at the things people are willing to do for you. That said, if your friend was unwilling to front you $10, that doesn't make her "negative" or a bad friend; it just makes her a friend you can't go to when you need cash.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:12 AM on October 17, 2008 [21 favorites]
The few times I've offered to lend money in the way you describe, my offer has been declined and the person seemed embarrassed. On the other hand, occasionally a friend asks me to cover her purchases and promises to pay me back the next day. That seems more comfortable to the one who is strapped for cash.
Ask if you'd like a favor.
posted by wryly at 10:12 AM on October 17, 2008
Ask if you'd like a favor.
posted by wryly at 10:12 AM on October 17, 2008
Oh, and keep in mind that this is not exactly a prosperous time, financially. Maybe people don't have a dollar to spare, maybe your friend didn't have ten.
posted by amro at 10:16 AM on October 17, 2008
posted by amro at 10:16 AM on October 17, 2008
Hmm...it looks like you're asking two questions here. One is about your friend, and one is more overarching. Can't help on the big, broad one, but the specific, I've followed that pattern too.
To be totally honest, you come across as a little full of yourself. You let people in front of you, give 'em a dollar -- that's great. I really do mean that, I'm absolutely certain that you've made someone's day several times over. But that's not going to put you up for beatification, honestly. You do nice things in a very material way (or, at least, that's what you've concentrated most of the question on, with the exception of pulling over and thinking good thoughts), and you seem to expect the same of your friend. I've totally fallen down this hole myself -- feeling very put-upon and martyred and bravely facing east into the rising sun, because I Am A Good Person. And then I remember that I have dear friends who maybe can't afford to reciprocate in material ways, or simply don't think that way, but who have done me massive kindnesses -- everything from putting up with me when I'm frankly a pain in the ass to be around, to showing genuine tenderness and kindness to me, in unexpected ways. (I've had some real shite friends too, who really did qualify as takers, for what it's worth.)
So, there's that. Think about your friend -- I mean really, really honestly look at her. Why are you friends? What does she do for you? Is it just a long string of not lending you stuff, or is she the first person you call when something's breaking your heart? Are you better off with her, or without her? It's entirely human to expect something in return for the kindness you do others -- read Mauss' The Gift if you haven't already, I think you'll like it -- but look at how you expect these returns. Life and love and humans don't necessarily work on a 1:1 scale. You do kind things for others, but maybe it's time to start making your own kindness and joy in the world, instead of wondering why everyone's not as awesome as you find yourself.
posted by kalimac at 10:16 AM on October 17, 2008 [4 favorites]
To be totally honest, you come across as a little full of yourself. You let people in front of you, give 'em a dollar -- that's great. I really do mean that, I'm absolutely certain that you've made someone's day several times over. But that's not going to put you up for beatification, honestly. You do nice things in a very material way (or, at least, that's what you've concentrated most of the question on, with the exception of pulling over and thinking good thoughts), and you seem to expect the same of your friend. I've totally fallen down this hole myself -- feeling very put-upon and martyred and bravely facing east into the rising sun, because I Am A Good Person. And then I remember that I have dear friends who maybe can't afford to reciprocate in material ways, or simply don't think that way, but who have done me massive kindnesses -- everything from putting up with me when I'm frankly a pain in the ass to be around, to showing genuine tenderness and kindness to me, in unexpected ways. (I've had some real shite friends too, who really did qualify as takers, for what it's worth.)
So, there's that. Think about your friend -- I mean really, really honestly look at her. Why are you friends? What does she do for you? Is it just a long string of not lending you stuff, or is she the first person you call when something's breaking your heart? Are you better off with her, or without her? It's entirely human to expect something in return for the kindness you do others -- read Mauss' The Gift if you haven't already, I think you'll like it -- but look at how you expect these returns. Life and love and humans don't necessarily work on a 1:1 scale. You do kind things for others, but maybe it's time to start making your own kindness and joy in the world, instead of wondering why everyone's not as awesome as you find yourself.
posted by kalimac at 10:16 AM on October 17, 2008 [4 favorites]
I think you're being a bit whiny and casting yourself as a victim of all of this "negativity".
You could have asked your friend to loan you the money. She can't read your mind and she's not negative or selfish for not loaning it to you. Maybe she thought you didn't want a loan. Maybe she actually thought you couldn't and didn't want to go because you didn't have the cash. Maybe she doesn't like to give loans. This does not make her stingy. Did your friend know you needed to borrow a crockpot or did you expect her to read your mind?
Try not to pat yourself on the back too much for letting people in line and loaning a dollar. Do these nice things for the sake of it. Helping people should be genuinely rewarding. Don't look for, or think about, return favors from strangers. It sounds like you're defensive and on-guard and expecting people around you to be altruistic. They are. They're everywhere. You're not seeing the "common courtesy" because you're on the defensive.
posted by Fairchild at 10:17 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
You could have asked your friend to loan you the money. She can't read your mind and she's not negative or selfish for not loaning it to you. Maybe she thought you didn't want a loan. Maybe she actually thought you couldn't and didn't want to go because you didn't have the cash. Maybe she doesn't like to give loans. This does not make her stingy. Did your friend know you needed to borrow a crockpot or did you expect her to read your mind?
Try not to pat yourself on the back too much for letting people in line and loaning a dollar. Do these nice things for the sake of it. Helping people should be genuinely rewarding. Don't look for, or think about, return favors from strangers. It sounds like you're defensive and on-guard and expecting people around you to be altruistic. They are. They're everywhere. You're not seeing the "common courtesy" because you're on the defensive.
posted by Fairchild at 10:17 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
But instead of saying something similar, she said "oh, okay well call me later if you're still up for it."
Many people think it's rude or demeaning to offer money to people (especially friends) who haven't asked for it. Money's a sensitive subject. If you had asked for the favor, I'm willing to bet she would've been happy to help.
On the other hand, holding a grudge against someone for not offering something you didn't ask for is passive aggressive behavior. That shit is infuriating.
posted by mullacc at 10:19 AM on October 17, 2008 [4 favorites]
Many people think it's rude or demeaning to offer money to people (especially friends) who haven't asked for it. Money's a sensitive subject. If you had asked for the favor, I'm willing to bet she would've been happy to help.
On the other hand, holding a grudge against someone for not offering something you didn't ask for is passive aggressive behavior. That shit is infuriating.
posted by mullacc at 10:19 AM on October 17, 2008 [4 favorites]
As an old room-mate of mine used to say, "Everybody brings something different to the party." Some people bring way more food than they can eat, others more booze than they can drink. Some people are just more generous with their charm, their wit, their compassion. And those that are genuinely not generous in any way, they generally don't get invited back.
posted by philip-random at 10:22 AM on October 17, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 10:22 AM on October 17, 2008 [5 favorites]
Ask Culture vs Guess Culture.
Guessers aren't necessarily more passive-aggressive than Askers, but it sure seems like that sometimes.
posted by Drastic at 10:24 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Guessers aren't necessarily more passive-aggressive than Askers, but it sure seems like that sometimes.
posted by Drastic at 10:24 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
A long while back, someone posted an answer here that classified people as askers and not-askers (or something like that) in stuff like this. Your friend is an asker: if she needs something, she asks for it. You obviously don't, and that's not an indication of which of you is "nicer", it just means you communicate differently.
Just make a note that in the future, you should be more specific in your requests, at least with this friend. To you, this may seem bold and obnoxious, but your friend is probably thinking "Of course I'd lend Jezebel ten bucks for an afternoon and since she didn't ask, she must not want it
On preview, Drastic has the comment I was looking for. It explains this much better than I can.
posted by stefanie at 10:29 AM on October 17, 2008
Just make a note that in the future, you should be more specific in your requests, at least with this friend. To you, this may seem bold and obnoxious, but your friend is probably thinking "Of course I'd lend Jezebel ten bucks for an afternoon and since she didn't ask, she must not want it
On preview, Drastic has the comment I was looking for. It explains this much better than I can.
posted by stefanie at 10:29 AM on October 17, 2008
I think the main problem is not that your friend didn't offer to help you out, it's that you expected her to do so. The key to being a giver, and really being happy, is that you never, ever expect anything in return.
My main circle of friends is now mostly a bunch of givers. We cover each others dinners, buy rounds, get rides all very evenly. But there is never an expectation that someone will cover you, never the assumption that the ride will be there. It's always just a spur of the moment kinda thing. Or at most, it's a "You got me last time, let me cover for you this time."
Any time I catch myself expecting any sort of payback, or whatever, I try to squelch it. Because that way lies madness. You don't give because you expect to receive, you give because it's just the way you want to be. Anything else leads to a crazy scorekeeping exisitence and that's not healthy or good for you in any way. Once you stop keeping score, or even expecting anything in return, you start receiving. Or at least, that's been my experience.
posted by teleri025 at 10:31 AM on October 17, 2008 [5 favorites]
My main circle of friends is now mostly a bunch of givers. We cover each others dinners, buy rounds, get rides all very evenly. But there is never an expectation that someone will cover you, never the assumption that the ride will be there. It's always just a spur of the moment kinda thing. Or at most, it's a "You got me last time, let me cover for you this time."
Any time I catch myself expecting any sort of payback, or whatever, I try to squelch it. Because that way lies madness. You don't give because you expect to receive, you give because it's just the way you want to be. Anything else leads to a crazy scorekeeping exisitence and that's not healthy or good for you in any way. Once you stop keeping score, or even expecting anything in return, you start receiving. Or at least, that's been my experience.
posted by teleri025 at 10:31 AM on October 17, 2008 [5 favorites]
But instead of saying something similar, she said "oh, okay well call me later if you're still up for it."
Did you ASK to borrow the $10 until you got paid? If you didn't, you really can't fault her for not responding exactly as you would.
For relationships, ANY relationship, ask for what you want or need. Nobody can read your mind.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:32 AM on October 17, 2008 [6 favorites]
Did you ASK to borrow the $10 until you got paid? If you didn't, you really can't fault her for not responding exactly as you would.
For relationships, ANY relationship, ask for what you want or need. Nobody can read your mind.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:32 AM on October 17, 2008 [6 favorites]
This has to be confirmation bias, because my life is chock-full of people who are nice to me, even strangers, and I don't think I'm any nicer than average.
I have known a few people like you, though, who constantly complain that they're doing so much and others aren't doing enough. Like TPS said, they come off as the negative ones. I eventually had to end a friendship with someone that ranted every day about how nice he was to others and that he only got crap in return. The obvious solution, to me, is to stop doing so much that you feel others are obligated in return. Don't be a jerk, but don't go out of your way, because evidently you feel that doing something nice for others will lead to someone doing something nice for you. That doesn't logically follow with strangers, because you'll likely never see them again. The feeling of generosity should be its own reward, and if that's not enough for you, don't do the good deed.
As to your specific situation, I wouldn't have hesitated at all to say, "Hey, can you spare me $10 for the morning?" to my best friend. I can't fathom how you can call someone a friend but not have the requisite familiarity to make such a request.
posted by desjardins at 10:35 AM on October 17, 2008 [8 favorites]
I have known a few people like you, though, who constantly complain that they're doing so much and others aren't doing enough. Like TPS said, they come off as the negative ones. I eventually had to end a friendship with someone that ranted every day about how nice he was to others and that he only got crap in return. The obvious solution, to me, is to stop doing so much that you feel others are obligated in return. Don't be a jerk, but don't go out of your way, because evidently you feel that doing something nice for others will lead to someone doing something nice for you. That doesn't logically follow with strangers, because you'll likely never see them again. The feeling of generosity should be its own reward, and if that's not enough for you, don't do the good deed.
As to your specific situation, I wouldn't have hesitated at all to say, "Hey, can you spare me $10 for the morning?" to my best friend. I can't fathom how you can call someone a friend but not have the requisite familiarity to make such a request.
posted by desjardins at 10:35 AM on October 17, 2008 [8 favorites]
The issue with your friend is an Ask/Guess issue. If you wanted to go with her -- and this is my opinion as an Asker not a guesser -- you should have said something. Since you didn't, stewing when she gave you a totally polite response seems a little, um, negative.
In fact, I've NEVER been told I could go ahead of someone in line because my 2 items are far less than their 50 items. And I've never been given cash when I'm short by a dollar at the grocery store. There is a gross amount of negativity and it's starting to really affect me.
It sounds to me like you do some sort of cosmic reckoning in your head. You're offering grace to the universe but when things are down, you'd like to be getting it back and you're not. I agree, that does suck, but if you can't fix the universe, what is your next option?
This is, from my vantage point, a very hard time to be alive, especially in the US. Political infighting is especially fierce and everyone feels sort of cornered and desperate. This does, I believe, trickle down to both the less mentally stable and the less emotionally stable so that people who seem to otherwise be good and decent people are a little cracked at the seams. I count myself among these people from time to time. Perhaps you or your friend are sometimes as well?
When I feel like I'm a giver surrounded by takers, all I can do is give less or give the same amount or give more. Or I guess I could decide to try taking. Or I could figure out why I feel this way. I feel that the balance is cosmic, not personal. My dollar given out becomes someone ELSE's dollar that comes in. My general good health may have been someone else's dollar at some point. Sure it's magical thinking, but there's really no other way to put yourself at ease if you find yourself suddenly aware of so much inequality. I'm sorry your friend isn't really making you feel better, but it does seem like you've taken a detour from your usual stated path in order to grouse about her.
posted by jessamyn at 10:37 AM on October 17, 2008 [6 favorites]
In fact, I've NEVER been told I could go ahead of someone in line because my 2 items are far less than their 50 items. And I've never been given cash when I'm short by a dollar at the grocery store. There is a gross amount of negativity and it's starting to really affect me.
It sounds to me like you do some sort of cosmic reckoning in your head. You're offering grace to the universe but when things are down, you'd like to be getting it back and you're not. I agree, that does suck, but if you can't fix the universe, what is your next option?
This is, from my vantage point, a very hard time to be alive, especially in the US. Political infighting is especially fierce and everyone feels sort of cornered and desperate. This does, I believe, trickle down to both the less mentally stable and the less emotionally stable so that people who seem to otherwise be good and decent people are a little cracked at the seams. I count myself among these people from time to time. Perhaps you or your friend are sometimes as well?
When I feel like I'm a giver surrounded by takers, all I can do is give less or give the same amount or give more. Or I guess I could decide to try taking. Or I could figure out why I feel this way. I feel that the balance is cosmic, not personal. My dollar given out becomes someone ELSE's dollar that comes in. My general good health may have been someone else's dollar at some point. Sure it's magical thinking, but there's really no other way to put yourself at ease if you find yourself suddenly aware of so much inequality. I'm sorry your friend isn't really making you feel better, but it does seem like you've taken a detour from your usual stated path in order to grouse about her.
posted by jessamyn at 10:37 AM on October 17, 2008 [6 favorites]
And I don't do these things with Karma in mind. I do it because I hope that one day, if I'm feeling like crap and just have 2 things to buy, but the person in front if me has a whole damn basket, they'll let me go ahead of them. If I'm a dollar short buying groceries, I never think that someone should give it to me - it'd be nice if they did, but I don't count on it. In fact, I've NEVER been told I could go ahead of someone in line because my 2 items are far less than their 50 items. And I've never been given cash when I'm short by a dollar at the grocery store. There is a gross amount of negativity and it's starting to really affect me.
It's good that you're a nice person. It's bad that you extend courtesies to others in the hopes that others (different others, later, it seems) will extend them to you. You should do these things even you expect to never be "paid back" in kind. I know you're claiming that you don't, but your perceptions of these events ("There is a gross amount of negativity and it's starting to really affect me") don't really support that.
As for your friend, you've decided that her not lending you ten dollars--which you hadn't even asked for, is a reflection that she doesn't value the friendship. There's also no indication that you asked for other favors you would have liked to be done in the past. If you need something, you should ask for it, not in the least because of the reasons--differing ideas of the social appropriateness of offering friends money, for example--listed by other people above. At most, it really is possible that it didn't cross her mind.
Look, I know this all might sound harsh. I'm like you--I frequently extend these courtesies to others without being asked. And when I've lent friends money, I've almost always had to ask to be paid back. But you know what? If they were able to do so, or help me out when I've asked for help, they always have. Expecting your friends, or others, to read your mind about your needs because you are perceptive of the needs of others is really a little ridiculous.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:39 AM on October 17, 2008
It's good that you're a nice person. It's bad that you extend courtesies to others in the hopes that others (different others, later, it seems) will extend them to you. You should do these things even you expect to never be "paid back" in kind. I know you're claiming that you don't, but your perceptions of these events ("There is a gross amount of negativity and it's starting to really affect me") don't really support that.
As for your friend, you've decided that her not lending you ten dollars--which you hadn't even asked for, is a reflection that she doesn't value the friendship. There's also no indication that you asked for other favors you would have liked to be done in the past. If you need something, you should ask for it, not in the least because of the reasons--differing ideas of the social appropriateness of offering friends money, for example--listed by other people above. At most, it really is possible that it didn't cross her mind.
Look, I know this all might sound harsh. I'm like you--I frequently extend these courtesies to others without being asked. And when I've lent friends money, I've almost always had to ask to be paid back. But you know what? If they were able to do so, or help me out when I've asked for help, they always have. Expecting your friends, or others, to read your mind about your needs because you are perceptive of the needs of others is really a little ridiculous.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:39 AM on October 17, 2008
Generosity doesn't work the way you think it does. It isn't generous to do X and expect X in return. True generosity is doing X and honestly expecting nothing in return. This way I do not get resentful when others don't behave as well as I think I have, and I am delighted when someone does something extra nice for me. Don't keep score with the universe, because that isn't the way the universe works and you're just going to wind up feeling put upon.
And then.. too... not saying you're like this, but the people I have known who rant about how they're such nice people and they give so much and don't get much back aren't as nice as they think they are. Usually they have entitlement issues, and they are blind to how they put upon and upset others.
No one but a mind reader is ever perfectly aware of what errors they may commit or how they may offend others. Odds are, no matter how nice or well-behaved a person you are, you probably do let down or hurt the people in your life at least sometimes. Your best response when you are hurt or let down is to remember that you're not perfect either, and to either choose to communicate and address the matter, or to silently make your peace with it in some way.
posted by orange swan at 10:41 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
And then.. too... not saying you're like this, but the people I have known who rant about how they're such nice people and they give so much and don't get much back aren't as nice as they think they are. Usually they have entitlement issues, and they are blind to how they put upon and upset others.
No one but a mind reader is ever perfectly aware of what errors they may commit or how they may offend others. Odds are, no matter how nice or well-behaved a person you are, you probably do let down or hurt the people in your life at least sometimes. Your best response when you are hurt or let down is to remember that you're not perfect either, and to either choose to communicate and address the matter, or to silently make your peace with it in some way.
posted by orange swan at 10:41 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I believe most people give, but we all organize our giving differently. Some people are generous with money, some with emotions, some to strangers, some to only one person, forever. It's not the least bit rational or regular. You can't rely on people making the same choices you would. You have to ask for what you want if you expect to get it.
I think some of the confrontational responses you're getting here stem from the fact that what you're describing isn't "negativity," but "indifference," "independence," or "inattentiveness." General norms of politeness and consideration are not in and of themselves kindness.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think some of the confrontational responses you're getting here stem from the fact that what you're describing isn't "negativity," but "indifference," "independence," or "inattentiveness." General norms of politeness and consideration are not in and of themselves kindness.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wait, how was your friend supposed to know that you were only spending $10 at the farmer's market? This just seems like such a weird assumption - even if you spent $10 the previous 6 weeks, it doesn't mean you're going to spend $10 this week. I don't frequent those things but it would seem like you could spend much more. Maybe she thought you might spend $100 and she doesn't have that to spare. Without having any idea how much someone plans to spend, I wouldn't offer to cover someone's shopping expenses because I myself might come up short.
posted by desjardins at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
You are not a giver. You are a guesser. You want people to read your mind and you are annoyed when they don't. That does not make the world negative, it makes you negative. Your friend is not the problem, the world is not the problem. You living in your own fantasy world where everyone acts like you to get something that they want is the problem. Learn to externalize what you're already thinking in your head and stop being afraid to ask for a favor or ask for help. The negativity that is affecting you comes from yourself - it is not external nor is it pressing in on you. Stop dwelling in victimhood and embrace confrontation with the problems that affect you. Life is much more interesting that way.
posted by Stynxno at 10:43 AM on October 17, 2008
posted by Stynxno at 10:43 AM on October 17, 2008
Damnjezebel, I think you're having a bad day and aren't seeing the real picture here. It's okay. But, remember that the motivation for kindness isn't because you expect other people to reciprocate, it's because that's who you are and it's what you believe is the correct thing to do. If that's not the case then adjust your actions and expectations accordingly, especially if you feel like you're being taken advantage of.
Mutual reciprocity (I'll do this for you and hopefully one day you'll do it for me), is different - but also has an important place in friendships, it helps us to form bonds and build trust. If you're finding your generosity isn't being met you can either scale yours back if you feel it appropriate, or just ask for a favor like other people have suggested. The fact you don't see the material side coming back to you doesn't mean that you're not appreciated. Many people don't like to offer stuff, but would jump at the chance to help if asked.
I hope I'm making sense here. Don't be down, there are nice people out there, they just need a little push sometimes.
posted by Craig at 10:53 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Mutual reciprocity (I'll do this for you and hopefully one day you'll do it for me), is different - but also has an important place in friendships, it helps us to form bonds and build trust. If you're finding your generosity isn't being met you can either scale yours back if you feel it appropriate, or just ask for a favor like other people have suggested. The fact you don't see the material side coming back to you doesn't mean that you're not appreciated. Many people don't like to offer stuff, but would jump at the chance to help if asked.
I hope I'm making sense here. Don't be down, there are nice people out there, they just need a little push sometimes.
posted by Craig at 10:53 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Woah, what's with all the negativity here in the comments? I understand what the OP is saying about giving the stranger a dollar -- by our actions, we try to make the world more like the one we want to live in. It feels good to help somebody out, and it is sad when you see an absence of that around you.
So, I will say: keep trying. Keep being a good person, keep being nice, and you will make other people smile. I promise you that if I ever notice you behind me in line at the grocery store with just a few items, I will let you pass, because that's what I try to do as well. (Since I have no idea who you are and what you look like, this means I've just commited to doing this for -everybody-... but, hell, that's not a bad thing!)
posted by wyzewoman at 11:02 AM on October 17, 2008
So, I will say: keep trying. Keep being a good person, keep being nice, and you will make other people smile. I promise you that if I ever notice you behind me in line at the grocery store with just a few items, I will let you pass, because that's what I try to do as well. (Since I have no idea who you are and what you look like, this means I've just commited to doing this for -everybody-... but, hell, that's not a bad thing!)
posted by wyzewoman at 11:02 AM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: I was just going to say just what Craig said above - you're having a bad day and it's making you cranky. Sounds to me like you're a good person who could have used a little boost from your friend, and are disappointed that it wasn't forthcoming. If you're anything like me, you probably also hide it when you are down, because you don't want to bum out people around you, which is nice but it ends up shortchanging yourself when you actually need support. The comments here probably aren't helping too much, go for a walk in the park and forget about your stupid bank!
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:09 AM on October 17, 2008
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:09 AM on October 17, 2008
Woah, what's with all the negativity here in the comments?
The comments here probably aren't helping too much,...
Very true.
Some people have a gift for answering questions with sensitivity and tact. Sometimes I'm not so good at this and I apologize. I like to be told when I'm behaving badly and sometimes I don't practice tact when answering questions. damnjezebel, I'm sorry if my comment was blunt or rude.
posted by Fairchild at 11:23 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
The comments here probably aren't helping too much,...
Very true.
Some people have a gift for answering questions with sensitivity and tact. Sometimes I'm not so good at this and I apologize. I like to be told when I'm behaving badly and sometimes I don't practice tact when answering questions. damnjezebel, I'm sorry if my comment was blunt or rude.
posted by Fairchild at 11:23 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Here's a different approach: if someone behind me seems like they're freaking out or sighing or pushing or whatever, I let them go ahead of me NOT because I hope someone will do that for me some day, but because it feels good to just let them. Because I am not that frantic this time. Because it's just a grocery store line/coffee line/etc.
[all bets are off, however, if I've been waiting in line for a concert all day and you show up when the doors open, however - and even THEN my mantra is, "someone is going to want it more than i do and will sell their grandmother to get to the front and there is no way i will sink that low so i can either fight them and ruin my time or just let it GO"]
I think the issue here is bigger than the microcosm you have shown us here. To me, it sounds like you're overwhelmed with your environment. I'm going to guess that you live in a large city, and that you may not be from the large city originally - but you also might be born & bred. Listen, people can really suck sometimes. make sure you are taking care of yourself - make sure you are getting enough sleep and taking your vitamins and eating well. and go call you grandma or your great-aunt or someone who just LOVES you and hang out there for a little bit. i'm not trying to say that you just need a hug, but that is a little bit of it.
Finally (as if this wasn't long enough), it took me a long time to realize that people aren't telepathic. I didn't learn this lesson permanently until I moved into a house share with a woman who was a little crazy. If I came home and she had a bowl in the sink, my thought was, She probably worked late, I'm sure she'll clean it up tomorrow, no biggie. But if she came home and I had a bowl in the sink, she would retaliate by putting the bowl ON MY BED.
I finally started leaving her notes: "Hey, got home late, tired, I will wash my dishes first thing in the morning." and - amazingly - she would leave it alone (unless of course I didn't at the exact time I said I would, and then the bowl would be back in my bed). Let's ignore the the crazy part, and see the difference: how did she know that I had done this cosmic calculation in my mind? how did she know how long the bowl had been there? they had had a mouse problem the year before i was there and they were trying hard to never have stuff in the sink, etc.
it was just asking vs. assuming.
but overall, you need some downtime. i think. not meaning to trivialize. because I think people are getting meaner, but people are just getting scared. i don't blame them.
posted by micawber at 11:29 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
[all bets are off, however, if I've been waiting in line for a concert all day and you show up when the doors open, however - and even THEN my mantra is, "someone is going to want it more than i do and will sell their grandmother to get to the front and there is no way i will sink that low so i can either fight them and ruin my time or just let it GO"]
I think the issue here is bigger than the microcosm you have shown us here. To me, it sounds like you're overwhelmed with your environment. I'm going to guess that you live in a large city, and that you may not be from the large city originally - but you also might be born & bred. Listen, people can really suck sometimes. make sure you are taking care of yourself - make sure you are getting enough sleep and taking your vitamins and eating well. and go call you grandma or your great-aunt or someone who just LOVES you and hang out there for a little bit. i'm not trying to say that you just need a hug, but that is a little bit of it.
Finally (as if this wasn't long enough), it took me a long time to realize that people aren't telepathic. I didn't learn this lesson permanently until I moved into a house share with a woman who was a little crazy. If I came home and she had a bowl in the sink, my thought was, She probably worked late, I'm sure she'll clean it up tomorrow, no biggie. But if she came home and I had a bowl in the sink, she would retaliate by putting the bowl ON MY BED.
I finally started leaving her notes: "Hey, got home late, tired, I will wash my dishes first thing in the morning." and - amazingly - she would leave it alone (unless of course I didn't at the exact time I said I would, and then the bowl would be back in my bed). Let's ignore the the crazy part, and see the difference: how did she know that I had done this cosmic calculation in my mind? how did she know how long the bowl had been there? they had had a mouse problem the year before i was there and they were trying hard to never have stuff in the sink, etc.
it was just asking vs. assuming.
but overall, you need some downtime. i think. not meaning to trivialize. because I think people are getting meaner, but people are just getting scared. i don't blame them.
posted by micawber at 11:29 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
The world is full of negative people if you group them into "givers" and "takers". We are surrounded by "nice" people, but like an anonymous donation to a charity, most of the "nice" things people do go unrecogized.
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 11:33 AM on October 17, 2008
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 11:33 AM on October 17, 2008
Woah, what's with all the negativity here in the comments?
It's not negativity, so much as pointing out reality.
So, I will say: keep trying. Keep being a good person, keep being nice, and you will make other people smile.
That's fine advice, but when doing this one should realize their limits. The idea that people can give and give and not expect anything in return is hogwash for 99% of us and that's ok.
Also, you have to realize that if you're being generous, the universe doesn't care and will give you your allotment of bad days/weeks just like everyone. In those situations, the trick is continue being generous in some ways.
Finally, maybe the OP is looking at the world too narrowly, with a self centered view. While the best friend may not have volunteered the $10, she might take you lunch next week, for no particular reason. Just because she wasn't there in the manner you thought she should be doesn't mean she isn't there for you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:50 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
It's not negativity, so much as pointing out reality.
So, I will say: keep trying. Keep being a good person, keep being nice, and you will make other people smile.
That's fine advice, but when doing this one should realize their limits. The idea that people can give and give and not expect anything in return is hogwash for 99% of us and that's ok.
Also, you have to realize that if you're being generous, the universe doesn't care and will give you your allotment of bad days/weeks just like everyone. In those situations, the trick is continue being generous in some ways.
Finally, maybe the OP is looking at the world too narrowly, with a self centered view. While the best friend may not have volunteered the $10, she might take you lunch next week, for no particular reason. Just because she wasn't there in the manner you thought she should be doesn't mean she isn't there for you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:50 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
On bad days I ask myself questions like this. On normal days, I realize it's silly because it makes perfect sense: takers and givers naturally "see" each other in the world, because they make ideal pairs. Put two givers together and they'll kill each other with kindness, put two takers together and they'll kill each other with selfishness... mix them and it makes a lot more sense.
There are nice people everywhere, they're just hard for other nice people to recognize.
posted by Pufferish at 11:55 AM on October 17, 2008
There are nice people everywhere, they're just hard for other nice people to recognize.
posted by Pufferish at 11:55 AM on October 17, 2008
Where the hell did all the nice people go?
The question, as stated, is in one way its own answer.
posted by Aquaman at 12:04 PM on October 17, 2008
The question, as stated, is in one way its own answer.
posted by Aquaman at 12:04 PM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: I am a nice and generous person, but I'm not a mindreader. I'd lend $10 to almost any friend or acquaintance who asked, but I'd never think of offering it if it weren't asked for. Your friend might be that kind of person.
posted by Daily Alice at 12:18 PM on October 17, 2008
posted by Daily Alice at 12:18 PM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: I used to be a bit of a resentful giver. It would bug me that I would put myself out for other people (sending greeting cards, remembering birthdays, going out of my way to do kind favors) and I didn't feel like it was reciprocated.
Then I read a self-help book (can't remember the title) where the author pointed out that friends don't sign contracts. My friends weren't contractually obligated to return similar tasks of kindliness, and it was unreasonable of me to *expect* them.
Reading this helped me a lot, especially in appreciating that not everyone performs the same social deeds that I do. For example, holiday greeting cards were really important in my family, and so I always send them out. I used to get irritated that I wouldn't get many in return, but now I remind myself that I do it for pleasure and not for some tit-for-tat scales balancing. And then I try to appreciate the things that my friends do for _me_ that I don't always think to reciprocate myself.
posted by cadge at 12:34 PM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Then I read a self-help book (can't remember the title) where the author pointed out that friends don't sign contracts. My friends weren't contractually obligated to return similar tasks of kindliness, and it was unreasonable of me to *expect* them.
Reading this helped me a lot, especially in appreciating that not everyone performs the same social deeds that I do. For example, holiday greeting cards were really important in my family, and so I always send them out. I used to get irritated that I wouldn't get many in return, but now I remind myself that I do it for pleasure and not for some tit-for-tat scales balancing. And then I try to appreciate the things that my friends do for _me_ that I don't always think to reciprocate myself.
posted by cadge at 12:34 PM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't know. Maybe you should have asked your friend for the money, and maybe you're not upfront enough about your needs.
I think it's worth discussing that there may be a grain of truth in the diminishing niceness of people. I have noticed this in myself, just a little bit of selfishness. A few weeks ago I was in the supermarket and there was a cereal box in the middle of the aisle and I didn't pick it up. I had the wordless thought that it's somebody else's problem, I'd had a tough day, there were a ton of demands on my time. It really stayed with me, though. It was a trivial thing, but it wasn't like me not to do just pick up the damn thing, but I didn't, and I found myself thinking about why.
So here's a theory.
My days go like this starting this week:
4:30 AM out of bed, coffee, internet
5 to 6 gym
6 to 6:50 prep for work, pick out clothes, brush and floss teeth, set aside food for work, prep baby for trip outdoors
6:50 to 7:20 walk with dog and baby
7:20 to 7:45 shower, shave, blow dry hair, makeup, dress (I'm very speedy)
7:45 to 8:30 commute to work, drop off baby, be late to work
8:30 to 5:00 work
5:00 to 6:00 pick up baby, commute home
6:00 to 7:00 hand baby to Mr. Llama for bottle and bed, make dinner
7:00 to 8:00 dinner with Mr llama. Wine. As much as necessary.
8:00 to 9:00 dishes, last dog walk, sleep.
Now, I'm not saying this in a boo-hoo poor me way. I have a Kitchen Aid mixer and high speed internet and a refrigerator filled with items like capers, a great partner, dog, and baby, so clearly I'm not living a life of poverty or emotional deprivation. We have lots of dumb little luxuries.
The life I described above is very standard for a lot of people. Very standard. And it's exhausting. Every minute is in some way accounted for. The schedule above leaves no time for Oh, shit, we're out of coffee. It leaves no time, really, for me to hang out with my kid. If we have a stray fifteen minutes in the morning, laundry's going in, or the bathroom needs to be wiped clean of dog hair so we don't seem quite so much like we're living in a kennel. I'm not sure if written out the speed with which the days pass is really clear. Maybe it looks like my class schedule in high school, but as we're living it, it's a blur.
And wah wah wah oh, the poor Americans. But the social connections, the little kindnesses, are sometimes swept away in the whirlwind of activity that a lot of us accept now as normal life. I see it happening in myself, the tunnel vision I have in the supermarket, and the lack of generosity I often feel towards others.
So I think you may be perceiving something that is true about our culture, and may for some reason be less true for you, either because you happen not to live your life on a hampster wheel, or because you notice it more than others, or because we all notice it, but we're too busy realizing we have to stop for gas on the way home to remember that we're surrounded by people on all sides.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:34 PM on October 17, 2008 [4 favorites]
I think it's worth discussing that there may be a grain of truth in the diminishing niceness of people. I have noticed this in myself, just a little bit of selfishness. A few weeks ago I was in the supermarket and there was a cereal box in the middle of the aisle and I didn't pick it up. I had the wordless thought that it's somebody else's problem, I'd had a tough day, there were a ton of demands on my time. It really stayed with me, though. It was a trivial thing, but it wasn't like me not to do just pick up the damn thing, but I didn't, and I found myself thinking about why.
So here's a theory.
My days go like this starting this week:
4:30 AM out of bed, coffee, internet
5 to 6 gym
6 to 6:50 prep for work, pick out clothes, brush and floss teeth, set aside food for work, prep baby for trip outdoors
6:50 to 7:20 walk with dog and baby
7:20 to 7:45 shower, shave, blow dry hair, makeup, dress (I'm very speedy)
7:45 to 8:30 commute to work, drop off baby, be late to work
8:30 to 5:00 work
5:00 to 6:00 pick up baby, commute home
6:00 to 7:00 hand baby to Mr. Llama for bottle and bed, make dinner
7:00 to 8:00 dinner with Mr llama. Wine. As much as necessary.
8:00 to 9:00 dishes, last dog walk, sleep.
Now, I'm not saying this in a boo-hoo poor me way. I have a Kitchen Aid mixer and high speed internet and a refrigerator filled with items like capers, a great partner, dog, and baby, so clearly I'm not living a life of poverty or emotional deprivation. We have lots of dumb little luxuries.
The life I described above is very standard for a lot of people. Very standard. And it's exhausting. Every minute is in some way accounted for. The schedule above leaves no time for Oh, shit, we're out of coffee. It leaves no time, really, for me to hang out with my kid. If we have a stray fifteen minutes in the morning, laundry's going in, or the bathroom needs to be wiped clean of dog hair so we don't seem quite so much like we're living in a kennel. I'm not sure if written out the speed with which the days pass is really clear. Maybe it looks like my class schedule in high school, but as we're living it, it's a blur.
And wah wah wah oh, the poor Americans. But the social connections, the little kindnesses, are sometimes swept away in the whirlwind of activity that a lot of us accept now as normal life. I see it happening in myself, the tunnel vision I have in the supermarket, and the lack of generosity I often feel towards others.
So I think you may be perceiving something that is true about our culture, and may for some reason be less true for you, either because you happen not to live your life on a hampster wheel, or because you notice it more than others, or because we all notice it, but we're too busy realizing we have to stop for gas on the way home to remember that we're surrounded by people on all sides.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:34 PM on October 17, 2008 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Aw, damnjezebel, I feel really bad that you're apparently having a crappy day, and now you've got a bunch of people tearing you a new one for not being selflessly generous without expectation. Not that it's not a great goal to aspire to, but man, we're all just human here.
I think the reason you wrote about the little things you do for strangers to frame your question (giving people $1, or letting them in front of you in line) is maybe because you're one of those people that really values unexpected kindness. I'm totally with you there. I think unexpected kindnesses are one of the best things we can do for others, and I really like having people in my life that are able to do the unexpected-kindness thing for me when I'm having a bad day/week/month. I can very much understand running into a bad streak of days where you start to feel resentful, because you could really use some of that unexpected kindness in your life and for whatever reason the people you surround yourself with just aren't the type to provide it.
Here's some things that help me out when I get into that head space:
1. It's okay to want people in your life that are sensitive enough to notice when you're hitting a rough patch, and to offer support without you having to explicitly ask for it. This desire doesn't make you a bad person, or a selfish person.
1a. However, it's better to realize that if the people you currently have in your life aren't those sorts of people, then they're not, and it's not fair to you or them to get angry about it. It doesn't make 'em bad friends--I'm sure there are things about them that you really, really value--just friends that don't happen to have this one characteristic that you're really missing in your life.
1b. You should instead think about going out and trying to cultivate more friends, the type that are the sensitive souls who notice when you're having a bad day and do nice things just for the hell of it. It's just like any other type of lack in your life: if you realized you wanted to have more friends who were into hiking and camping, it would do less good to be pissed at your current friends for not sharing your new interests, and more good to just go make more friends who have this quality you desire.
2. I totally agree with Ask vs. Guess culture, but unlike most people above, I don't think the only answer is to be really Ask-y and explicit for every kindness you want. Because it sounds like what you really want is someone who cares enough to want to do the random nice unexpected things, yes? There's a middle ground here. If you are really close with your best friend, I think it's okay to tell her that you've been having a rough couple of days, and you feel sad because you don't have anyone in your life right now who seems to notice and provide little unexpected kindnesses, and you miss that. [NOTE: this last piece of advice can't be done by everyone. If you come across as even a little bitter or pointed, this is likely to be taken badly by your friend. But if you're really close and generally talk to her about everything, it's possible for this sort of conversation to end pretty well; your friend will either commiserate, which will probably make you feel better, or she may start making an effort to do more of this sort of thing that she never realized you really care about.]
3. The very, very, very most important thing is to realize that when you start to get that burned out, angry feeling of being taken advantage of, that's your cue to take those kindnesses you send out into the world and start turning them back on yourself. Really, when it comes down to it, you're the best source of random kindnesses that you'll ever find in the world, and you just need to give yourself permission to take that dollar you would have given to someone and buy yourself a really, really good chocolate bar to eat in the tub. Or maybe, instead of being the reliable friend who always helps friends on moving day, you could instead stay in and watch bad movies and take the day to pamper yourself. Right now, you think that the cycle of random kindness in the world is only sustainable if people reflect it back at you; this isn't true. It's only sustainable if you take some time to reflect it back at yourself sometimes.
I hope your day gets better.
posted by iminurmefi at 12:51 PM on October 17, 2008 [5 favorites]
I think the reason you wrote about the little things you do for strangers to frame your question (giving people $1, or letting them in front of you in line) is maybe because you're one of those people that really values unexpected kindness. I'm totally with you there. I think unexpected kindnesses are one of the best things we can do for others, and I really like having people in my life that are able to do the unexpected-kindness thing for me when I'm having a bad day/week/month. I can very much understand running into a bad streak of days where you start to feel resentful, because you could really use some of that unexpected kindness in your life and for whatever reason the people you surround yourself with just aren't the type to provide it.
Here's some things that help me out when I get into that head space:
1. It's okay to want people in your life that are sensitive enough to notice when you're hitting a rough patch, and to offer support without you having to explicitly ask for it. This desire doesn't make you a bad person, or a selfish person.
1a. However, it's better to realize that if the people you currently have in your life aren't those sorts of people, then they're not, and it's not fair to you or them to get angry about it. It doesn't make 'em bad friends--I'm sure there are things about them that you really, really value--just friends that don't happen to have this one characteristic that you're really missing in your life.
1b. You should instead think about going out and trying to cultivate more friends, the type that are the sensitive souls who notice when you're having a bad day and do nice things just for the hell of it. It's just like any other type of lack in your life: if you realized you wanted to have more friends who were into hiking and camping, it would do less good to be pissed at your current friends for not sharing your new interests, and more good to just go make more friends who have this quality you desire.
2. I totally agree with Ask vs. Guess culture, but unlike most people above, I don't think the only answer is to be really Ask-y and explicit for every kindness you want. Because it sounds like what you really want is someone who cares enough to want to do the random nice unexpected things, yes? There's a middle ground here. If you are really close with your best friend, I think it's okay to tell her that you've been having a rough couple of days, and you feel sad because you don't have anyone in your life right now who seems to notice and provide little unexpected kindnesses, and you miss that. [NOTE: this last piece of advice can't be done by everyone. If you come across as even a little bitter or pointed, this is likely to be taken badly by your friend. But if you're really close and generally talk to her about everything, it's possible for this sort of conversation to end pretty well; your friend will either commiserate, which will probably make you feel better, or she may start making an effort to do more of this sort of thing that she never realized you really care about.]
3. The very, very, very most important thing is to realize that when you start to get that burned out, angry feeling of being taken advantage of, that's your cue to take those kindnesses you send out into the world and start turning them back on yourself. Really, when it comes down to it, you're the best source of random kindnesses that you'll ever find in the world, and you just need to give yourself permission to take that dollar you would have given to someone and buy yourself a really, really good chocolate bar to eat in the tub. Or maybe, instead of being the reliable friend who always helps friends on moving day, you could instead stay in and watch bad movies and take the day to pamper yourself. Right now, you think that the cycle of random kindness in the world is only sustainable if people reflect it back at you; this isn't true. It's only sustainable if you take some time to reflect it back at yourself sometimes.
I hope your day gets better.
posted by iminurmefi at 12:51 PM on October 17, 2008 [5 favorites]
Best answer: First off, sorry to hear about AIG screwing up your bank account. Money stress can be some of the worst, regardless of how quickly it's rectified.
Secondly, I can empathize with you on the "random acts of generosity" thing. I do the same kinds of things("You first, I insist - do you see how much stuff I have compared to your gallon of milk?", etc), and rarely have the same done to me. It can be frustrating, especially on a bad day.
There is one thing I noticed in your original post, though, that makes me wonder how your conversation with your friend went: "But that means that I couldn't go at 10am."
If you straight up told your friend you couldn't go, then it sounds like she took your word for it, and offered to reschedule. That's a pretty standard response. If you find yourself in a similar situation in the future, you might try asking specifically if they can front you a few bucks until you get your reimbursement check(or whatever the situation is). A good friend will either say "Sure, no problem," or "Sorry, I really can't spare it," but either way they won't hold it against you. Alternatively, you could suggest doing something else during the time you planned to spend together.
Really, it's important to communicate. It's easy, especially with good/great/best friends, to feel that they should know what you're thinking/feeling when you've had a long relationship, and to an extent they can. However, it's not very fair to expect them to know or understand something that you haven't explicitly told/asked them. When they manage it, great, but when they don't, it's not their fault. I think most of us have made the same mistake many times over, but some of us have to work harder to prevent it than others.
Wow, this got long. I hope it's not too lecture-y, and that you've gotten your check and everything is back in order. Make the best of the rest of your day!
posted by owtytrof at 1:35 PM on October 17, 2008
Secondly, I can empathize with you on the "random acts of generosity" thing. I do the same kinds of things("You first, I insist - do you see how much stuff I have compared to your gallon of milk?", etc), and rarely have the same done to me. It can be frustrating, especially on a bad day.
There is one thing I noticed in your original post, though, that makes me wonder how your conversation with your friend went: "But that means that I couldn't go at 10am."
If you straight up told your friend you couldn't go, then it sounds like she took your word for it, and offered to reschedule. That's a pretty standard response. If you find yourself in a similar situation in the future, you might try asking specifically if they can front you a few bucks until you get your reimbursement check(or whatever the situation is). A good friend will either say "Sure, no problem," or "Sorry, I really can't spare it," but either way they won't hold it against you. Alternatively, you could suggest doing something else during the time you planned to spend together.
Really, it's important to communicate. It's easy, especially with good/great/best friends, to feel that they should know what you're thinking/feeling when you've had a long relationship, and to an extent they can. However, it's not very fair to expect them to know or understand something that you haven't explicitly told/asked them. When they manage it, great, but when they don't, it's not their fault. I think most of us have made the same mistake many times over, but some of us have to work harder to prevent it than others.
Wow, this got long. I hope it's not too lecture-y, and that you've gotten your check and everything is back in order. Make the best of the rest of your day!
posted by owtytrof at 1:35 PM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: DJ - just don't go in with any expectations. If you're a good person, awesome! But a million factors contribute to peoples' behaviors: that dude that cut you off might be rushing to pick his kid up from practice, that surly barista may have just gotten rejected from all her top college pics, etc. you never know.
But seriously, you can only control how you act and no one can be a "perfect person" all the time. I like to think everyone tries to be good most of the time though.
Even the comments in this thread have good intentions (helping you) behind them.
But on a practical level, if a good friend offends you (as yours has), just address it on the spot. Usually they haven't realized what they've done, as owtytrof pointed out.
If there's any problem with our culture it is that we assume too much and don't talk enough.
Except on MeFi. :)
posted by HolyWood at 3:51 PM on October 17, 2008
But seriously, you can only control how you act and no one can be a "perfect person" all the time. I like to think everyone tries to be good most of the time though.
Even the comments in this thread have good intentions (helping you) behind them.
But on a practical level, if a good friend offends you (as yours has), just address it on the spot. Usually they haven't realized what they've done, as owtytrof pointed out.
If there's any problem with our culture it is that we assume too much and don't talk enough.
Except on MeFi. :)
posted by HolyWood at 3:51 PM on October 17, 2008
Response by poster: My post got way more negative answers than I think it should have. And that's a bit ironic, considering that the post is about negativity. So thanks for proving that for me. After having asked this question, I feel very much like Giselle in "Enchanted" - I just asked a homeless man for a smile and in return, I got my crown stolen right from my head.
I don't believe I came off as whiny or undeserving or ungrateful or full of my self or every other thing you've called me. I merely gave as much info as possible for you to answer the question. I do these things - letting someone pass me, helping someone wrangle a runaway child, give someone the 11 cents that they're short, etc. - because that's how I envision everything should be. People being courteous to one another. That might be very utopian of me to think, but that's how I am.
This post is less about the best friend and more about everyone around me that is too absorbed in his own world to give a flying fuck about anyone else. The friend in question was only the catalyst to my asking this here - and the question isn't that much about her. Yes, we do have our issues, but that's not what I am needing to discuss here. More and more people every day that are acting this same negative/don't-give-a-shit way, from the checkout person that doesn't even acknowledge anyone's presence to a person at a light taking up 3 lanes with his truck because he decided he HAS to go left instead of right. It's common everyday courtesy that I'm talking about here.
Owtytrof hit it perfectly, I think. Yeah, I HAVE been spending a lot of my time being nice to those around me, and I'm very frustrated that no one takes the time to be nice back. I suppose I just hit my breaking point. The only thing that Brandon Blatcher said that I can agree with is that I didn't realize my limit. I do not, however, agree that she would have fronted lunch next week. I've known her for longer than I haven't, and she's never done anything remotely like this - even when I was flat broke after my divorce and had my electricity shut off for 2 days. But my question isn't about "she's a shitty friend, right?" Fairchild, I totally understand what you were trying to say and I do accept your apology.
All helpful answers were marked "best answer". If I could give a "worst answer", it would be given to Stynxno. Your answer didn't give me any advice other than "don't be negative" and "you're living in a fantasy world."
[small side note to desjardins: at our local market, $10 buys way more veggies and fruit than I can eat before it goes bad. I was pretty skeptical until I actually went and checked it out.]
Overall, I didn't get the answers that I was looking for. I don't think "deal with it" and "don't be negative" are appropriate to the questions at hand. Thank you to everyone who took the time to read and answer this thread, even the ones that said things that I don't agree with or answer my questions.
posted by damnjezebel at 6:20 PM on October 17, 2008
I don't believe I came off as whiny or undeserving or ungrateful or full of my self or every other thing you've called me. I merely gave as much info as possible for you to answer the question. I do these things - letting someone pass me, helping someone wrangle a runaway child, give someone the 11 cents that they're short, etc. - because that's how I envision everything should be. People being courteous to one another. That might be very utopian of me to think, but that's how I am.
This post is less about the best friend and more about everyone around me that is too absorbed in his own world to give a flying fuck about anyone else. The friend in question was only the catalyst to my asking this here - and the question isn't that much about her. Yes, we do have our issues, but that's not what I am needing to discuss here. More and more people every day that are acting this same negative/don't-give-a-shit way, from the checkout person that doesn't even acknowledge anyone's presence to a person at a light taking up 3 lanes with his truck because he decided he HAS to go left instead of right. It's common everyday courtesy that I'm talking about here.
Owtytrof hit it perfectly, I think. Yeah, I HAVE been spending a lot of my time being nice to those around me, and I'm very frustrated that no one takes the time to be nice back. I suppose I just hit my breaking point. The only thing that Brandon Blatcher said that I can agree with is that I didn't realize my limit. I do not, however, agree that she would have fronted lunch next week. I've known her for longer than I haven't, and she's never done anything remotely like this - even when I was flat broke after my divorce and had my electricity shut off for 2 days. But my question isn't about "she's a shitty friend, right?" Fairchild, I totally understand what you were trying to say and I do accept your apology.
All helpful answers were marked "best answer". If I could give a "worst answer", it would be given to Stynxno. Your answer didn't give me any advice other than "don't be negative" and "you're living in a fantasy world."
[small side note to desjardins: at our local market, $10 buys way more veggies and fruit than I can eat before it goes bad. I was pretty skeptical until I actually went and checked it out.]
Overall, I didn't get the answers that I was looking for. I don't think "deal with it" and "don't be negative" are appropriate to the questions at hand. Thank you to everyone who took the time to read and answer this thread, even the ones that said things that I don't agree with or answer my questions.
posted by damnjezebel at 6:20 PM on October 17, 2008
True love keeps no accounts.
posted by flabdablet at 7:31 PM on October 17, 2008
posted by flabdablet at 7:31 PM on October 17, 2008
So since you're giving out information, did you ask your friend to spot you $10?
If you feel this "best friend" of yours is so inconsiderate for not lending you money without being asked, then perhaps for both your sakes, you need to speak up for yourself, and ask next time.
If you did ask, and she blew you off, and you feel this is part of a larger pattern of selfish behavior on her part, then you may want to evaluate her place in your life as "best friend" and seek out people who give back (presuming they are aware of your needs.)
What answers were you looking for?
There's a lot of good advice here about self-reflection, letting go, and not over-extending yourself. If you're being so "nice" that you're ending up resentful that the world isn't being as nice back, you may be over-extending yourself. Pull back a little bit. Take care of yourself - it's clear you're hurting.
Because of the way you framed the issue with your friend, it's reasonable to consider whether the Ask/Guess issue isn't also coming into play in other areas of your life that you do control - do you find yourself frequently angry and disappointed with friends and co-workers who don't reciprocate? Many of your examples aren't negativity , but the absence of partial treatment. ("please go ahead of me, you have fewer items", "please, oh, you're short a buck? here you go.")
Would it be wonderful if people did that more often? Yes. Yet to be frustrated and angry when they don't conform with how you think they should behave, when you have no means to influence their behavior is condemning yourself to misery.
I find when I'm not feeling appreciated by the world, I need to spend some time alone - running, walking in a forest, wandering by a lake, anywhere I can re-center myself, because given time, I can find the peace to accept that people are generally most concerned with their own lives, and to cherish the friends I have who often show so much consideration for me, each in their own way.
posted by canine epigram at 7:37 PM on October 17, 2008
If you feel this "best friend" of yours is so inconsiderate for not lending you money without being asked, then perhaps for both your sakes, you need to speak up for yourself, and ask next time.
If you did ask, and she blew you off, and you feel this is part of a larger pattern of selfish behavior on her part, then you may want to evaluate her place in your life as "best friend" and seek out people who give back (presuming they are aware of your needs.)
What answers were you looking for?
There's a lot of good advice here about self-reflection, letting go, and not over-extending yourself. If you're being so "nice" that you're ending up resentful that the world isn't being as nice back, you may be over-extending yourself. Pull back a little bit. Take care of yourself - it's clear you're hurting.
Because of the way you framed the issue with your friend, it's reasonable to consider whether the Ask/Guess issue isn't also coming into play in other areas of your life that you do control - do you find yourself frequently angry and disappointed with friends and co-workers who don't reciprocate? Many of your examples aren't negativity , but the absence of partial treatment. ("please go ahead of me, you have fewer items", "please, oh, you're short a buck? here you go.")
Would it be wonderful if people did that more often? Yes. Yet to be frustrated and angry when they don't conform with how you think they should behave, when you have no means to influence their behavior is condemning yourself to misery.
I find when I'm not feeling appreciated by the world, I need to spend some time alone - running, walking in a forest, wandering by a lake, anywhere I can re-center myself, because given time, I can find the peace to accept that people are generally most concerned with their own lives, and to cherish the friends I have who often show so much consideration for me, each in their own way.
posted by canine epigram at 7:37 PM on October 17, 2008
I hope this isn't the same friend who lied about breaking her pelvis.
posted by desjardins at 8:07 PM on October 17, 2008
posted by desjardins at 8:07 PM on October 17, 2008
Response by poster: Hi Canine - no. My paycheck arrived on time, and I'm going tomorrow. As of late, I have been very disappointed by the lack of conscience I've found in people. This isn't to say that everyone woke up one day and started being mean to poor lil' damnjezebel. I think I just realized one day that people are not as nice/open/can't think of the appropriate word, but it goes here. I actually spend most of my time alone now, so maybe that might be why I'm only just now bitching about this - with being alone so much, I'm more aware of what people are doing? I have no idea. I did ask this question while I was good and pissed, but for the most part, I still stand behind it. As far as what I wanted to find by asking this, I guess I was wondering if my findings were universal or if I was associating with (more) immature people (than myself)? I honestly don't know. I still feel very scattery as far as what I should do. I can't analyze it too much, because with that, I can discount most- if not all - my friends. Besides, I'm not pristine by any means, so I can't just stop talking to people because they do X, Y, or Z. As far as the friend in question goes, we are currently talking about what happened. I'm hoping that I can get her to at least be open to what I was/am going through and why i was so offended.
Desjardins - nope, it's not. That friend apparently moved to India to become a missionary, and was able to bring their dog. but then decided they'd rather move to China but came back to Texas briefly and..... that person has been unfriended for obvious reasons. There were so many lies after the pelvis thing. Little white lies, I'm okay with. Hyping yourself up a bit, that's fine too. But I just got sick of getting a new dramatic story every day.
posted by damnjezebel at 9:02 PM on October 17, 2008
Desjardins - nope, it's not. That friend apparently moved to India to become a missionary, and was able to bring their dog. but then decided they'd rather move to China but came back to Texas briefly and..... that person has been unfriended for obvious reasons. There were so many lies after the pelvis thing. Little white lies, I'm okay with. Hyping yourself up a bit, that's fine too. But I just got sick of getting a new dramatic story every day.
posted by damnjezebel at 9:02 PM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: I can't analyze it too much, because with that, I can discount most- if not all - my friends. Besides, I'm not pristine by any means, so I can't just stop talking to people because they do X, Y, or Z.
That depends on what X, Y, or Z is. Not letting you go ahead of them because you only have 4 items and they have a full cart? Probably not. Repeatedly badmouthing you to a friend, or concocting fabulous lies despite being caught out? A better idea.
As I said, if you find that pretty much all your friends are disappointing you, you want might to examine your assumptions - both in whether you've actually let them know they've disappointed you, and whether you should truly be disappointed in the first place.
If the answer to both of those is yes - you need new friends. If not, well, you have some self-work to do.
As far as the friend in question goes, we are currently talking about what happened. I'm hoping that I can get her to at least be open to what I was/am going through and why i was so offended.
Right now, without having the exact transcript of the conversation, it looks like you're offended because she didn't react the way you hoped she would - and she had no way of knowing you were secretly hoping she'd spot you some cash. So I'm hoping you are as open to owning your part here -- but while you've favorite replies that include pointing your fault out, you've not actually directly responded to that.
Sure, what happened to you really sucked, but honestly, again with only what's written here, it sounds like you took it out on her.
It sounds like you really need some time away somewhere to be away and just think.
posted by canine epigram at 9:52 PM on October 17, 2008
That depends on what X, Y, or Z is. Not letting you go ahead of them because you only have 4 items and they have a full cart? Probably not. Repeatedly badmouthing you to a friend, or concocting fabulous lies despite being caught out? A better idea.
As I said, if you find that pretty much all your friends are disappointing you, you want might to examine your assumptions - both in whether you've actually let them know they've disappointed you, and whether you should truly be disappointed in the first place.
If the answer to both of those is yes - you need new friends. If not, well, you have some self-work to do.
As far as the friend in question goes, we are currently talking about what happened. I'm hoping that I can get her to at least be open to what I was/am going through and why i was so offended.
Right now, without having the exact transcript of the conversation, it looks like you're offended because she didn't react the way you hoped she would - and she had no way of knowing you were secretly hoping she'd spot you some cash. So I'm hoping you are as open to owning your part here -- but while you've favorite replies that include pointing your fault out, you've not actually directly responded to that.
Sure, what happened to you really sucked, but honestly, again with only what's written here, it sounds like you took it out on her.
It sounds like you really need some time away somewhere to be away and just think.
posted by canine epigram at 9:52 PM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: Something I wanted to point out is that many people are cautious about doing unexpected kind things for people because some people get really, really offended by it and are outright nasty to the person who tried to be nice to them.
For example, I remember one time I was getting food for myself but there was a homeless man with his dog outside, so I got him something too. This was on a block that generally had a lot of homeless people, and I've probably had a dozen good reactions from giving food to them before. This one guy, though, was an absolute asshole to me. He refused to take the food and treated me like trash for even offering it to him. He wouldn't take it for his dog either. (And yes, he was homeless, I didn't make a mistake or something and offend someone that was just looked homeless.)
After that, I didn't bother giving food to anyone on the block anymore, just because I didn't want to deal with that. I give food to panhandlers that ask for it.
I've also been bitched at for trying to do little nice things for strangers, like letting them go in front of me in line and whatnot. I'm fairly certain it's not my approach, either, since I've had far more good, reasonable reactions than nasty ones. But some people are insecure and have inferiority complexes, and think that when people are doing nice things for them, it's to show that they're better than them because they can afford to do it. (I have literally heard people say this of nice people before.) Generally, whenever I do something nice and get smacked down for it, I don't do that nice thing anymore for anyone. I know people will say, "Aww, you shouldn't let that get you down, think of all the people that appreciated it!" But really, I'd rather have my day filled with neutral interactions with strangers than the possibility of negative ones. I do my best to brush it off, and I do it because it makes me feel good and not because I ever expect anyone to return it. But it does hurt my feelings when someone goes off on me or insults me for it, because that's a bit much. I also don't like being reminded that there are people whose life has been such hell that they don't trust anyone. It's just depressing.
And it's not just strangers, either. I have friends who, if they mentioned their money situation like you did, I would be inclined to say, "Hey, don't worry about it, I'll cover you for now." But like someone upthread mentioned, some people are assholes about it and get offended that you offer, even if you do it casually. Even people that are normally very nice. So I don't offer unless someone asks, or if I know someone will take my money. (I have one friend who's great about it and just says, "Wow, thanks!") Also, though, it occurred to me that maybe your friend doesn't have the money to spare. Right now, I could not lend someone $10. :-/ Even if your friend appears to have a lot of money and doesn't mention any financial trouble, people keep some surprising things secret. I've known people with six figure incomes that are deep in debt and couldn't lend someone $10.
So to answer your broader question, I think that at least some nice people get smacked down so often that they don't try anymore, because that's been my experience. Some assholes really can ruin it for everyone, and it can seem easier not to bother.
posted by Nattie at 9:58 PM on October 17, 2008
For example, I remember one time I was getting food for myself but there was a homeless man with his dog outside, so I got him something too. This was on a block that generally had a lot of homeless people, and I've probably had a dozen good reactions from giving food to them before. This one guy, though, was an absolute asshole to me. He refused to take the food and treated me like trash for even offering it to him. He wouldn't take it for his dog either. (And yes, he was homeless, I didn't make a mistake or something and offend someone that was just looked homeless.)
After that, I didn't bother giving food to anyone on the block anymore, just because I didn't want to deal with that. I give food to panhandlers that ask for it.
I've also been bitched at for trying to do little nice things for strangers, like letting them go in front of me in line and whatnot. I'm fairly certain it's not my approach, either, since I've had far more good, reasonable reactions than nasty ones. But some people are insecure and have inferiority complexes, and think that when people are doing nice things for them, it's to show that they're better than them because they can afford to do it. (I have literally heard people say this of nice people before.) Generally, whenever I do something nice and get smacked down for it, I don't do that nice thing anymore for anyone. I know people will say, "Aww, you shouldn't let that get you down, think of all the people that appreciated it!" But really, I'd rather have my day filled with neutral interactions with strangers than the possibility of negative ones. I do my best to brush it off, and I do it because it makes me feel good and not because I ever expect anyone to return it. But it does hurt my feelings when someone goes off on me or insults me for it, because that's a bit much. I also don't like being reminded that there are people whose life has been such hell that they don't trust anyone. It's just depressing.
And it's not just strangers, either. I have friends who, if they mentioned their money situation like you did, I would be inclined to say, "Hey, don't worry about it, I'll cover you for now." But like someone upthread mentioned, some people are assholes about it and get offended that you offer, even if you do it casually. Even people that are normally very nice. So I don't offer unless someone asks, or if I know someone will take my money. (I have one friend who's great about it and just says, "Wow, thanks!") Also, though, it occurred to me that maybe your friend doesn't have the money to spare. Right now, I could not lend someone $10. :-/ Even if your friend appears to have a lot of money and doesn't mention any financial trouble, people keep some surprising things secret. I've known people with six figure incomes that are deep in debt and couldn't lend someone $10.
So to answer your broader question, I think that at least some nice people get smacked down so often that they don't try anymore, because that's been my experience. Some assholes really can ruin it for everyone, and it can seem easier not to bother.
posted by Nattie at 9:58 PM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: I don't believe I came off as whiny or undeserving or ungrateful or full of my self or every other thing you've called me. I merely gave as much info as possible for you to answer the question.
In your original post, you make general claims about human behavior ("People don't help others") based off of your individual experiences ("Someone didn't help me"). This, I think, is why a lot of people read your post as whiny or what-have-you. What you seem to be most bothered by is that you aren't the recipient of kindness, but you're trying to discuss this as people not giving kindness in general.
It's really okay to feel like you deserve more. But there's a vast difference between saying, "I think people aren't as kind to me as I wish they were," and "I think people are always less kind than they should be." One is a genuine problem that all feel -- it is related to loneliness, pain, and fear, and these are things all of us suffer from. The other is a judgment on all of the human race. Most people, being part of the human race, will respond defensively to the judgment that we're all too negative and unkind.
Now, if you genuinely think that all human beings are far too uncaring for their fellow man, consider this: you have only your own evidence to go off of. Maybe the guy behind you in line at the cash register gave his last $1 to a homeless guy outside, and thus cannot help you. Maybe the person with a full cart in front of you took time to help a stranger locate an item and now doesn't have time to let you go in front. Maybe the lady who cuts you off in traffic let the past three people get around her and now just wants to go her way. You're surrounded by folks who give to charity, who volunteer at soup kitchens, who've done countless favors on countless occasions. They haven't helped you specifically, but that doesn't mean they are not helping others regularly. Try not to generalize. Read about charities, read biographies of the greater philanthropists. Focus on the good that people really are doing, all around you, all the time.
(If you want an example, my SO commonly gives food to homeless. During the hottest summer months, if he sees a person who looks like they're suffering in the heat, he'll buy an extra bottle of water to give to them. A little bit ago, a woman in the line at the Costco pizza station who was struggling with a young child didn't realize they only took cash and had none available -- he paid for her $10 order because he had the extra cash. Now, my SO has probably never met you, and, if he ever does meet you, it's not likely to be at a time when you're in need of help. But there he is, out there, always ready to help someone who's in need when he's capable of doing so. And it's not like he's the only one.)
Now, if you're more concerned about the fact that you haven't recently been on the receiving end of such good will, then I can only repeat the advice others have given. Meet more people. Re-evaluate your current social circles. Try to be more forgiving when those around you don't help you out. Try to see if there are more substantial, deeper issues that could be influencing your view (loneliness, yes?).
What I really hope is that you can see the difference between the viewpoints, and that that might explain why some people are responding so strongly to your original post.
posted by Ms. Saint at 11:21 PM on October 17, 2008
In your original post, you make general claims about human behavior ("People don't help others") based off of your individual experiences ("Someone didn't help me"). This, I think, is why a lot of people read your post as whiny or what-have-you. What you seem to be most bothered by is that you aren't the recipient of kindness, but you're trying to discuss this as people not giving kindness in general.
It's really okay to feel like you deserve more. But there's a vast difference between saying, "I think people aren't as kind to me as I wish they were," and "I think people are always less kind than they should be." One is a genuine problem that all feel -- it is related to loneliness, pain, and fear, and these are things all of us suffer from. The other is a judgment on all of the human race. Most people, being part of the human race, will respond defensively to the judgment that we're all too negative and unkind.
Now, if you genuinely think that all human beings are far too uncaring for their fellow man, consider this: you have only your own evidence to go off of. Maybe the guy behind you in line at the cash register gave his last $1 to a homeless guy outside, and thus cannot help you. Maybe the person with a full cart in front of you took time to help a stranger locate an item and now doesn't have time to let you go in front. Maybe the lady who cuts you off in traffic let the past three people get around her and now just wants to go her way. You're surrounded by folks who give to charity, who volunteer at soup kitchens, who've done countless favors on countless occasions. They haven't helped you specifically, but that doesn't mean they are not helping others regularly. Try not to generalize. Read about charities, read biographies of the greater philanthropists. Focus on the good that people really are doing, all around you, all the time.
(If you want an example, my SO commonly gives food to homeless. During the hottest summer months, if he sees a person who looks like they're suffering in the heat, he'll buy an extra bottle of water to give to them. A little bit ago, a woman in the line at the Costco pizza station who was struggling with a young child didn't realize they only took cash and had none available -- he paid for her $10 order because he had the extra cash. Now, my SO has probably never met you, and, if he ever does meet you, it's not likely to be at a time when you're in need of help. But there he is, out there, always ready to help someone who's in need when he's capable of doing so. And it's not like he's the only one.)
Now, if you're more concerned about the fact that you haven't recently been on the receiving end of such good will, then I can only repeat the advice others have given. Meet more people. Re-evaluate your current social circles. Try to be more forgiving when those around you don't help you out. Try to see if there are more substantial, deeper issues that could be influencing your view (loneliness, yes?).
What I really hope is that you can see the difference between the viewpoints, and that that might explain why some people are responding so strongly to your original post.
posted by Ms. Saint at 11:21 PM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: This post is less about the best friend and more about everyone around me that is too absorbed in his own world to give a flying fuck about anyone else. The friend in question was only the catalyst to my asking this here - and the question isn't that much about her. Yes, we do have our issues, but that's not what I am needing to discuss here. More and more people every day that are acting this same negative/don't-give-a-shit way, from the checkout person that doesn't even acknowledge anyone's presence to a person at a light taking up 3 lanes with his truck because he decided he HAS to go left instead of right. It's common everyday courtesy that I'm talking about here.
I understand your defensiveness to what you're perceiving as criticism on this thread. Mefites can be tough! But I wanted to add something that I've found very helpful in dealing with this sort of thing myself. Namely, to never expect people to be anyone other than themselves. That is, lower your expectations to be in line with what you've observed to be reality, rather than how you'd like reality to be (and, if people are strangers, to either expect nothing or expect the worst!). I've found that unrealistically high expectations have generally been the real source for many disappointments in my life--and, I'll admit, I'm a bit of a control freak, so that when reality failed to match my perfect vision of my friends/future/life, I'd be really, really disappointed. While it would be nice to have everyone act as they would in my mental image of Utopia, it's just not realistic--and having that image throttled daily started to become heartbreaking.
The sad truth is that you can't change people. Not those people in line. Not your friends. But you can change yourself and your perceptions of what's going on around you. And you can definitely make logical, informed decisions based on that. For example, once I stopped holding out for shitty friends to rise to what I saw as our potential for friendship, I was able to really decide for myself whether they were worth keeping as friends. Sometimes they weren't. And sometimes they were, but I would make concessions to myself about these friendships. I would, for example, ask for favors I knew they wouldn't give unless asked for. Generally, this has helped to cushion me from a larger sense of disappointment in the people around me. It also has the added benefits of helping me kvetch a little less, helping me to be a little less negative.
That might seem counter intuitive--that lowering your high expectations would result in less negativity. But the trite becomes true--when your expectations are low, you'll start to notice better the times when the people around you exceed them.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:24 PM on October 17, 2008
I understand your defensiveness to what you're perceiving as criticism on this thread. Mefites can be tough! But I wanted to add something that I've found very helpful in dealing with this sort of thing myself. Namely, to never expect people to be anyone other than themselves. That is, lower your expectations to be in line with what you've observed to be reality, rather than how you'd like reality to be (and, if people are strangers, to either expect nothing or expect the worst!). I've found that unrealistically high expectations have generally been the real source for many disappointments in my life--and, I'll admit, I'm a bit of a control freak, so that when reality failed to match my perfect vision of my friends/future/life, I'd be really, really disappointed. While it would be nice to have everyone act as they would in my mental image of Utopia, it's just not realistic--and having that image throttled daily started to become heartbreaking.
The sad truth is that you can't change people. Not those people in line. Not your friends. But you can change yourself and your perceptions of what's going on around you. And you can definitely make logical, informed decisions based on that. For example, once I stopped holding out for shitty friends to rise to what I saw as our potential for friendship, I was able to really decide for myself whether they were worth keeping as friends. Sometimes they weren't. And sometimes they were, but I would make concessions to myself about these friendships. I would, for example, ask for favors I knew they wouldn't give unless asked for. Generally, this has helped to cushion me from a larger sense of disappointment in the people around me. It also has the added benefits of helping me kvetch a little less, helping me to be a little less negative.
That might seem counter intuitive--that lowering your high expectations would result in less negativity. But the trite becomes true--when your expectations are low, you'll start to notice better the times when the people around you exceed them.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:24 PM on October 17, 2008
Best answer: My post got way more negative answers than I think it should have. And that's a bit ironic, considering that the post is about negativity. So thanks for proving that for me. After having asked this question, I feel very much like Giselle in "Enchanted" - I just asked a homeless man for a smile and in return, I got my crown stolen right from my head.
You do realize that you're being insulting and ungrateful to people who were trying to help you, right? And that you're doing that because they're not giving you the answers you want, right?
This is not kind, courteous behavior and tacking " Thank you to everyone who took the time to read and answer this thread, even the ones that said things that I don't agree with or answer my questions" on the end won't make it so. In fact, it comes off as a stuck up, smarmy teenager. I'm not saying you are one, just that your reply is radiating that vibe. Now, whether you agree with that or not, I'm sure you can understand that people who are perceived as putting out said attitude will get more negativity that positivity. Perhaps that's part of the problem here?
As far as what I wanted to find by asking this, I guess I was wondering if my findings were universal or if I was associating with (more) immature people (than myself)? I honestly don't know.
Your findings aren't universal and yes, you seem to be associating with assholes and calling them friends.
Stop walking around with utopian visions of how people should be if you can't handle the fact that your vision is not reality. I say this not be cruel, but as someone who also walked around with a certain idea of how things should be and became angry/frustrated/depressed when what was in my head didn't match what was going on. Once I stopped trying to be so nice all the time, thinking it would be returned, I became much more happy and content.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:44 AM on October 18, 2008 [4 favorites]
You do realize that you're being insulting and ungrateful to people who were trying to help you, right? And that you're doing that because they're not giving you the answers you want, right?
This is not kind, courteous behavior and tacking " Thank you to everyone who took the time to read and answer this thread, even the ones that said things that I don't agree with or answer my questions" on the end won't make it so. In fact, it comes off as a stuck up, smarmy teenager. I'm not saying you are one, just that your reply is radiating that vibe. Now, whether you agree with that or not, I'm sure you can understand that people who are perceived as putting out said attitude will get more negativity that positivity. Perhaps that's part of the problem here?
As far as what I wanted to find by asking this, I guess I was wondering if my findings were universal or if I was associating with (more) immature people (than myself)? I honestly don't know.
Your findings aren't universal and yes, you seem to be associating with assholes and calling them friends.
Stop walking around with utopian visions of how people should be if you can't handle the fact that your vision is not reality. I say this not be cruel, but as someone who also walked around with a certain idea of how things should be and became angry/frustrated/depressed when what was in my head didn't match what was going on. Once I stopped trying to be so nice all the time, thinking it would be returned, I became much more happy and content.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:44 AM on October 18, 2008 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I read several of the initial posts, but the list is long... a lot of happiness can arise from expectation. Take the things you do receive as a gift and let go of the things that you don't get. Your friend has had a different set of experiences growing up as yourself and while your strength is in giving, it is something that she may shy away from. If your friend doesn't lend you a crockpot or pick you up from the auto shop, it may be frustrating, but she may just be laying out her boundaries - 'givers' usually have no problem inconveniencing themselves for the sake of others, but I think it's important to remember that this notion is not universal. Something to keep in mind is that loaning money, even in small amounts, is a touchy subject for many people. Just like it is unreasonable to expect a spouse to be absolutely everything to you, it is similarly unreasonable to expect one friend to be there at all times for all circumstances.
posted by perpetualstroll at 8:02 AM on October 18, 2008
posted by perpetualstroll at 8:02 AM on October 18, 2008
Best answer: I try to see the best in everyone. I can't change anyone else's negativity, only my own.
posted by thebrokenmuse at 12:18 AM on October 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by thebrokenmuse at 12:18 AM on October 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't believe I came off as whiny or undeserving or ungrateful or full of my self or every other thing you've called me.
You definitely did, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm sure of it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:34 PM on October 19, 2008 [2 favorites]
You definitely did, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm sure of it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:34 PM on October 19, 2008 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I hope you remain open-minded about the things you read here. Don't be defensive. No one is perfect, but we can all learn from one another.
You might read a bit of the Dalai lama's writings on projection and expectations, and genuine compassion. I hope you like it.
posted by Chris4d at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2008
You might read a bit of the Dalai lama's writings on projection and expectations, and genuine compassion. I hope you like it.
posted by Chris4d at 6:30 PM on October 22, 2008
Response by poster: Hello - I wanted to touch base since it's been a few days and people have had enough time to obliterate me and my views. The friend in question and myself are much better now (granted, it's still early, so that may be a grand leap - but it's an observation). We're both doing better - emphasis on BOTH, so you don't think I'm a total twat, although I'm sure you already do. I still stand behind my original question about finding positivity in the world. A few of the answers were standard and I didn't really find out anything that I think would help me, as I've already been working on this for the last year or so. Currently, I volunteer and meditate and while that's helped ME feel better, that still doesn't hide that there's so much ugliness in the world. Despite the negativity I've been shown here, I still love askmefi and will continue to read and ask.
A few personal followups:
Chris4d - they're pretty excellent, aren't they? =) Thanks, definitely tried to be open-minded about the opinions read here.
TPS - as I've stated before, "This post is less about the best friend and more about everyone around me that is too absorbed in his own world to give a flying fuck about anyone else. The friend in question was only the catalyst to my asking this here - and the question isn't that much about her." I used my situation with her as an example. My incident with her is what made me start thinking about my question in the first place. Yes, I did expect that my friend would bestow upon me the same courtesies that I bestow upon her and it didn't happen. But that's not what this question is about. I'm just going to assume by your responses that whenever you're in public and interacting with other people, you're simply oblivious to their actions because you're doing exactly what I see that they do. I really hope that you're not one of the people I'm talking about - the ones that will be too busy singing in their car to see that the light turned green and we're all waiting to go but can't. And I hope you're not one of those people that cut in line ahead of others because you think you're entitled to. Because those people are what this question is about. But hey, next time I post a question, I'll make sure to leave an example out of it for you, 'kay?
Brandon Blatcher - "And that you're doing that because they're not giving you the answers you want, right?" Actually, AskMeFi is about finding answers to problems. My problem was that I (as well as various friends that can back me up on this) come in contact with a lot more negativity these days than before. And you did answer in the way that I was looking for. Thank you very much for giving an example of what you did. That was exactly what I was looking for. I've thought about doing that, lowering my expectations, but I'm really scared that if I do that, I'll lose faith in the goodness of people. But then again, I guess I don't really have anything to lose at this point =)
thebrokenmuse - here, here.
perpetual stroll - I think you definitely hit on something that I never realized before posting this. Givers DO inconvenience themselves for the sake of everyone else. Since posting this, I've just starting backing off a bit as far as helping. I feel terrible that I don't, but as far as a learning exercise, I do see how often I do it. I will admit to a small amount of wicked delight yesterday when she hinted around that she was short $50 for her car payment.
PhoBWanKenobi, Ms Saint, Nattie - your comments were above par. Thank you for taking time and answering my question. Your answers were amazing and definitely (will) help.
posted by damnjezebel at 5:45 PM on October 26, 2008
A few personal followups:
Chris4d - they're pretty excellent, aren't they? =) Thanks, definitely tried to be open-minded about the opinions read here.
TPS - as I've stated before, "This post is less about the best friend and more about everyone around me that is too absorbed in his own world to give a flying fuck about anyone else. The friend in question was only the catalyst to my asking this here - and the question isn't that much about her." I used my situation with her as an example. My incident with her is what made me start thinking about my question in the first place. Yes, I did expect that my friend would bestow upon me the same courtesies that I bestow upon her and it didn't happen. But that's not what this question is about. I'm just going to assume by your responses that whenever you're in public and interacting with other people, you're simply oblivious to their actions because you're doing exactly what I see that they do. I really hope that you're not one of the people I'm talking about - the ones that will be too busy singing in their car to see that the light turned green and we're all waiting to go but can't. And I hope you're not one of those people that cut in line ahead of others because you think you're entitled to. Because those people are what this question is about. But hey, next time I post a question, I'll make sure to leave an example out of it for you, 'kay?
Brandon Blatcher - "And that you're doing that because they're not giving you the answers you want, right?" Actually, AskMeFi is about finding answers to problems. My problem was that I (as well as various friends that can back me up on this) come in contact with a lot more negativity these days than before. And you did answer in the way that I was looking for. Thank you very much for giving an example of what you did. That was exactly what I was looking for. I've thought about doing that, lowering my expectations, but I'm really scared that if I do that, I'll lose faith in the goodness of people. But then again, I guess I don't really have anything to lose at this point =)
thebrokenmuse - here, here.
perpetual stroll - I think you definitely hit on something that I never realized before posting this. Givers DO inconvenience themselves for the sake of everyone else. Since posting this, I've just starting backing off a bit as far as helping. I feel terrible that I don't, but as far as a learning exercise, I do see how often I do it. I will admit to a small amount of wicked delight yesterday when she hinted around that she was short $50 for her car payment.
PhoBWanKenobi, Ms Saint, Nattie - your comments were above par. Thank you for taking time and answering my question. Your answers were amazing and definitely (will) help.
posted by damnjezebel at 5:45 PM on October 26, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
And I don't do these things with Karma in mind. I do it because I hope that one day, if I'm feeling like crap and just have 2 things to buy, but the person in front if me has a whole damn basket, they'll let me go ahead of them.
That's pretty much the definition of karma.
As for meeting other givers... Try doing some volunteer work. You are likely to find other generous souls that way.
And bring enough money to the supermarket, for goodness sake.
posted by amro at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2008 [1 favorite]