I told my friends I was considering suicide and they stopped speaking to me. Should I reach out to them?
October 2, 2008 6:17 PM Subscribe
I went through a bad depression and my two of my best friends stopped talking to me when I told them how I was feeling. Should I try to save the friendships?
I moved to a new city by myself for work about six months ago. The transition, all the time alone to think and loneliness resulted in my falling into a deep depression where I considered taking my own life. I called suicide hotlines, gathered pills, and was looking into renting a hotel room so my roommate wouldn't have to find me. It's been the darkest period in my life. When I shared with one of my closest friends back home (over IM) what I was feeling, she said, "You sound fucking crazy right now" and that I was "a grown woman that needed to take control of my own life." I told her I felt too fragile to hear this, and she said I needed to hear it.
I closed out of the conversation and I haven't heard from her since, that was a month ago. Our other friend, who is close with her, also knows what's going on and has also stopped making any attempts to contact me. I feel like everything I thought I knew was wrong, and that people who I thought loved me don't actually care at all. We'd been friends for years, and I know I"m far away and have only talked electronically about all this, but neither one has called in a month and I can't help but think they have turned against me. I'm in therapy now and starting medication soon, so while I work really hard to get on my feet again, I wonder, should I try to reach out to them? Or accept that I might have lost two of my best friends?
I moved to a new city by myself for work about six months ago. The transition, all the time alone to think and loneliness resulted in my falling into a deep depression where I considered taking my own life. I called suicide hotlines, gathered pills, and was looking into renting a hotel room so my roommate wouldn't have to find me. It's been the darkest period in my life. When I shared with one of my closest friends back home (over IM) what I was feeling, she said, "You sound fucking crazy right now" and that I was "a grown woman that needed to take control of my own life." I told her I felt too fragile to hear this, and she said I needed to hear it.
I closed out of the conversation and I haven't heard from her since, that was a month ago. Our other friend, who is close with her, also knows what's going on and has also stopped making any attempts to contact me. I feel like everything I thought I knew was wrong, and that people who I thought loved me don't actually care at all. We'd been friends for years, and I know I"m far away and have only talked electronically about all this, but neither one has called in a month and I can't help but think they have turned against me. I'm in therapy now and starting medication soon, so while I work really hard to get on my feet again, I wonder, should I try to reach out to them? Or accept that I might have lost two of my best friends?
Why? They weren't your friends; they were acquaintances. Friends -- good friends -- hang around being fun and happy people until something goes wrong and you need their help, and then they help you (or are at least sympathetic to your plight) because they love and respect you. Acquaintances hang around being fun and happy people until something goes wrong and you need their help, and then they bail, or in some cases even abuse you a little bit first (as with your friend's IM response to your plight.)
By contrast, another friend of mine went through something similar just a month ago; the key difference is that their friend (after hearing this over IM) called the police, who showed up and found her already succumbing to the pills she'd taken. They brought her to the hospital and the staff there saved her life...as did the friend who took her issues seriously and acted to help instead of throwing her to the wayside.
Coincidentally, her depression also stemmed in part from a recent move to a place where she had no friends and no support.
I'm sorry you had to go through this, but I urge you to realize it's not that they've "turned against you" -- they weren't really your friends in the first place, not true friends. Your actions didn't cause them to hate you, you didn't make your own problem, and it wasn't your fault; it's simply that in times of adversity our true nature is revealed, and your "friends" just revealed theirs.
That doesn't mean you have to shun them, but I certainly wouldn't reach out to them -- after all, what good would it do, if the next time you need them they treat you the same way?
posted by davejay at 6:29 PM on October 2, 2008 [9 favorites]
By contrast, another friend of mine went through something similar just a month ago; the key difference is that their friend (after hearing this over IM) called the police, who showed up and found her already succumbing to the pills she'd taken. They brought her to the hospital and the staff there saved her life...as did the friend who took her issues seriously and acted to help instead of throwing her to the wayside.
Coincidentally, her depression also stemmed in part from a recent move to a place where she had no friends and no support.
I'm sorry you had to go through this, but I urge you to realize it's not that they've "turned against you" -- they weren't really your friends in the first place, not true friends. Your actions didn't cause them to hate you, you didn't make your own problem, and it wasn't your fault; it's simply that in times of adversity our true nature is revealed, and your "friends" just revealed theirs.
That doesn't mean you have to shun them, but I certainly wouldn't reach out to them -- after all, what good would it do, if the next time you need them they treat you the same way?
posted by davejay at 6:29 PM on October 2, 2008 [9 favorites]
You haven't heard from them in a month after what you told one of them? I'm sure we don't have the whole story, but sorry - they don't sound like very good friends to me.
Happy Hunting in your new town. There's better people out there.
posted by matty at 6:30 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Happy Hunting in your new town. There's better people out there.
posted by matty at 6:30 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
The first person spoke harshly to you. She may have thought she was doling out Tough Love, or not, but it doesn't matter. You are under no obligation to contact her again.
The second person -- we have no idea. Often people in our society don't know how to deal with deep sadnesses or griefs, and try to leave others alone, as many of us do want to be alone when we're suffering (at least sometimes). It's the easiest, most half-assed thing to do. I would be inclined to forgive her, and seek out her company. But again, we have no idea.
To be fair, we also don't know how you were behaving to them, but I'm not going to assume anything unpleasant.
Best of luck. I have been there.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:31 PM on October 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
The second person -- we have no idea. Often people in our society don't know how to deal with deep sadnesses or griefs, and try to leave others alone, as many of us do want to be alone when we're suffering (at least sometimes). It's the easiest, most half-assed thing to do. I would be inclined to forgive her, and seek out her company. But again, we have no idea.
To be fair, we also don't know how you were behaving to them, but I'm not going to assume anything unpleasant.
Best of luck. I have been there.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:31 PM on October 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
After you poured your heart out to that "friend" and she hasn't inquired about you in over a month, they weren't very good friends to begin with.
Good friends stick around.. through thick and thin. Even when it hurts to hear your friend is in so much pain, you reach out to them, even if its just a little bit to say "hey.. I'm thinking about you." And neither of them have done that or attempted it.
I hope you find true friends. Good luck with your journey and I'm sorry that you've had a rough time. I hope things mend soon for you.
posted by czechmate at 6:37 PM on October 2, 2008
Good friends stick around.. through thick and thin. Even when it hurts to hear your friend is in so much pain, you reach out to them, even if its just a little bit to say "hey.. I'm thinking about you." And neither of them have done that or attempted it.
I hope you find true friends. Good luck with your journey and I'm sorry that you've had a rough time. I hope things mend soon for you.
posted by czechmate at 6:37 PM on October 2, 2008
When I told friends [via a facebook note] that I had been suicidal, most of my close friends subtly asked how I was / supported me, even though I specifically mentioned that it had been in the (recent) past & that I didn't want outpourings of love.
If you told friends directly about this, and they reacted like that, they're either idiots or jerks. If you really think they were just unable to figure out what to say, then I say forgive them and tell them how much their reaction was wrong.
But I think they're just jerks. In which case screw 'em.
Best of luck getting back on your feet.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:45 PM on October 2, 2008
If you told friends directly about this, and they reacted like that, they're either idiots or jerks. If you really think they were just unable to figure out what to say, then I say forgive them and tell them how much their reaction was wrong.
But I think they're just jerks. In which case screw 'em.
Best of luck getting back on your feet.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:45 PM on October 2, 2008
Contacting them runs the risk of first woman extracting the message "I'm better now, because of what you said" from the contact, followed by her shoveling on the "see? I was right!". Personally, I would not want to reinforce that behaviour nor deal with her being under the impression that her wrong-headed take on depression was right.
For the time being, I think it would be more productive to focus on your recovery and on finding support in new/better friends or family members.
posted by CKmtl at 7:13 PM on October 2, 2008
For the time being, I think it would be more productive to focus on your recovery and on finding support in new/better friends or family members.
posted by CKmtl at 7:13 PM on October 2, 2008
You should discuss this with your therapist.
If it were me, I wouldn't necessarily cut off contact with these people. They didn't respond to your need in a good way. But that might be because they don't know how to, not because they don't want to. These aren't people to rely on though, so I'd find new best friends.
posted by grouse at 7:18 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
If it were me, I wouldn't necessarily cut off contact with these people. They didn't respond to your need in a good way. But that might be because they don't know how to, not because they don't want to. These aren't people to rely on though, so I'd find new best friends.
posted by grouse at 7:18 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I am convinced there are some people who do not understand depression. People like that have a definite 'tough it out' perspective; they have never felt the chemical pathways go wrong and have never been dumped into The Pit. They think you're just a bit sad and there's just gonna be time for Hard Work and then Sunshine Will Happen. These people can go fuck themselves.
Unless they are motivated to try to understand it, they will reject people who are seriously - or even moderately - depressed. It doesn't sound like these people are the type to try to understand. Their lack of wanting to understand how you feel means they are not the friends you may have thought they were. (Moreso for the first - the second could very well not know how to deal with the physical and emotional distance. No response is more kindly than what I personally term the 'Indiana Response'.) And that sucks to hear, I know. But...
Moving to a new city will mean a new start. Let it be a new start of growth and productivity for you; you may have had a rough start, but it looks like you're taking the right steps forward.
posted by Weighted Companion Cube at 7:21 PM on October 2, 2008 [8 favorites]
Unless they are motivated to try to understand it, they will reject people who are seriously - or even moderately - depressed. It doesn't sound like these people are the type to try to understand. Their lack of wanting to understand how you feel means they are not the friends you may have thought they were. (Moreso for the first - the second could very well not know how to deal with the physical and emotional distance. No response is more kindly than what I personally term the 'Indiana Response'.) And that sucks to hear, I know. But...
Moving to a new city will mean a new start. Let it be a new start of growth and productivity for you; you may have had a rough start, but it looks like you're taking the right steps forward.
posted by Weighted Companion Cube at 7:21 PM on October 2, 2008 [8 favorites]
Best answer: a) From what you've posted, it sounds like it might be an aquantaince-thing
But,
since that's already been explored, I'll offer a possible alternate route:
Why might she have been angry?
What I mean is, you'll know her temperament best to know whether she's the sort of person who gets angry because they care, or because they don't.
Now, if she does care...
How exactly did you phrase how you were feeling?
I've been unfortunate enough to know a few people to have aspects of the behavioural interaction known as borderline personality, and I'm wondering if there's *any* chance it could have been misconstrued to uh. Fall into that dynamic.
Ok, here's my best try to explain a very big can of worms.
Basically, I knew people who would hurt themselves, and they often hurt themselves to manipulate others. The more helpless the other person was, the better it worked. Eg one friend had a boyfriend pick up broken glass and squeeze it til there was blood running down, telling her she wasn't allowed to leave him or he'd hurt himselve. Another would skype a particular ex-boyfriend who was on the other side of the planet, and tell him she was cutting herself because of him, and then that she was going to hang herself in her wardrobe. I believe she picked on him *especially* because he was on the otherside of the planet, and couldn't really do anything, which made the opportunity to hurt him, greater.
The really horrible thing is, that's what they both did, but probably not what they were thinking - they didn't really want to *hurt* the other person, so much as they just wanted to make sure they still cared, and making them hurt & worried was the easiest was to confirm that.
I had another friend, who started - started mind you, to imply/say that if I didn't do such&such, he might kill himself, and I interrupted him right there.
I told him that if he ever said he was going to hurt himself in an attempt to manipulate me, I would *never* speak to him again, that I would *not* go to his funeral, and that I would p*** on his grave.
I said it as deeply and sincerely as I could, EVEN THOUGH I was and would have been there for him in a flash if he was in trouble or just needed to talk, and made it really clear that he knew that too, but I had to make it really, really clear that I would not play those games.
So, from my own perspective, that's how someone can come across as 'unsympathetic' to a suicide plea, but that is very specific circumstances, and where sympathy can be incredibly unhelpful (I wish I'd known to intervene in the second case above - I thought she was getting help for her problems, appropriate therapy, medication, family support etc, but instead her circle of friends were instead trying to 'rescue' her, and basically served to cover for her, and delayed getting her the help she needed).
I only mentioned it in-case it might have unintentionally come across like that.
I'm really sorry your conversation happened over IM, because so many verbal and body-language cues are lost.
Also... how often did your friends usually call?
If you want to give them a last ditch chance,
I'd send an email saying something along the lines of:
* Your friendship means(meant) a lot to me
* That I've been going through the hardest period of your life
* That I'm starting therapy and medication now
* But that I felt hurt that you couldn't be there for me
* But that I can kind of understand if it was hard for you to deal or cope with, because it's been harder to deal and cope with myself (because that puts it in perspective)
* That any further communication would be up to them if they couldn't deal with it
And I could put something like I appreciated the friends they'd been, to do the proper compliment sandwich thing, but I don't think I could muster it in this case. I am very sorry that this had to happen to you.
From then on,
just let go.
Accept that you've done your bit.
If you're want to be hippy about it, imagine a cord between you and your friends, and just send them your love, and as you breath out, let them float off like astronauts tied to a tether. Give yourself and them room to breath, and then a little Que Sera, Sera - if then want to get in touch with you, they will.
posted by Elysum at 7:32 PM on October 2, 2008 [11 favorites]
But,
since that's already been explored, I'll offer a possible alternate route:
Why might she have been angry?
What I mean is, you'll know her temperament best to know whether she's the sort of person who gets angry because they care, or because they don't.
Now, if she does care...
How exactly did you phrase how you were feeling?
I've been unfortunate enough to know a few people to have aspects of the behavioural interaction known as borderline personality, and I'm wondering if there's *any* chance it could have been misconstrued to uh. Fall into that dynamic.
Ok, here's my best try to explain a very big can of worms.
Basically, I knew people who would hurt themselves, and they often hurt themselves to manipulate others. The more helpless the other person was, the better it worked. Eg one friend had a boyfriend pick up broken glass and squeeze it til there was blood running down, telling her she wasn't allowed to leave him or he'd hurt himselve. Another would skype a particular ex-boyfriend who was on the other side of the planet, and tell him she was cutting herself because of him, and then that she was going to hang herself in her wardrobe. I believe she picked on him *especially* because he was on the otherside of the planet, and couldn't really do anything, which made the opportunity to hurt him, greater.
The really horrible thing is, that's what they both did, but probably not what they were thinking - they didn't really want to *hurt* the other person, so much as they just wanted to make sure they still cared, and making them hurt & worried was the easiest was to confirm that.
I had another friend, who started - started mind you, to imply/say that if I didn't do such&such, he might kill himself, and I interrupted him right there.
I told him that if he ever said he was going to hurt himself in an attempt to manipulate me, I would *never* speak to him again, that I would *not* go to his funeral, and that I would p*** on his grave.
I said it as deeply and sincerely as I could, EVEN THOUGH I was and would have been there for him in a flash if he was in trouble or just needed to talk, and made it really clear that he knew that too, but I had to make it really, really clear that I would not play those games.
So, from my own perspective, that's how someone can come across as 'unsympathetic' to a suicide plea, but that is very specific circumstances, and where sympathy can be incredibly unhelpful (I wish I'd known to intervene in the second case above - I thought she was getting help for her problems, appropriate therapy, medication, family support etc, but instead her circle of friends were instead trying to 'rescue' her, and basically served to cover for her, and delayed getting her the help she needed).
I only mentioned it in-case it might have unintentionally come across like that.
I'm really sorry your conversation happened over IM, because so many verbal and body-language cues are lost.
Also... how often did your friends usually call?
If you want to give them a last ditch chance,
I'd send an email saying something along the lines of:
* Your friendship means(meant) a lot to me
* That I've been going through the hardest period of your life
* That I'm starting therapy and medication now
* But that I felt hurt that you couldn't be there for me
* But that I can kind of understand if it was hard for you to deal or cope with, because it's been harder to deal and cope with myself (because that puts it in perspective)
* That any further communication would be up to them if they couldn't deal with it
And I could put something like I appreciated the friends they'd been, to do the proper compliment sandwich thing, but I don't think I could muster it in this case. I am very sorry that this had to happen to you.
From then on,
just let go.
Accept that you've done your bit.
If you're want to be hippy about it, imagine a cord between you and your friends, and just send them your love, and as you breath out, let them float off like astronauts tied to a tether. Give yourself and them room to breath, and then a little Que Sera, Sera - if then want to get in touch with you, they will.
posted by Elysum at 7:32 PM on October 2, 2008 [11 favorites]
I have suffered from depression for a majority of my life. I've generally learned not to talk about it, but there have been quite a few times in the past when things have been particularly difficult and I made it clear that I had a problem and I needed my friends' support. It's almost comical how quickly people run in the other direction once things become less fun and more serious. You did nothing wrong at all. Friends, by definition, should have some concern for each other. When friends treat a serious cry for help in such a juvenile way, they are telling you that they don't care, that they never cared, and they are not true friends. That's their problem. That doesn't mean that you are a bad person or deserve to be alone. There are a lot of selfish people out there who can't see beyond their own needs. If they can live with how they treated you, that's fine, but you shouldn't lower yourself by reaching out to them. Fair weather friends aren't going to help you get on your feet again.
posted by Mael Oui at 8:01 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Mael Oui at 8:01 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Happened to me too. My response? Fuck them.
posted by turgid dahlia at 8:35 PM on October 2, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by turgid dahlia at 8:35 PM on October 2, 2008 [7 favorites]
I just want to give my two cents about what Elysum said:
I had a "friend", who I knew for about five years, thought he was caring, and when he gave his tough-love speeches, I suckered up to him and thought he was right, I'm an idiot, I should "get tough", yada yada. Eventually he accused me of acting like an emo kid just so I can gain attention and have people pity me. Then he said "fuck you" to me and we cut ties - and I'm damn grateful for that.
That "friend" I mentioned - he dealt with people who DID manipulate him with "woe is me" moments, so maybe he got a little paranoid when it comes to depressive people. I just want to say, maybe that's the case with your "friends". It's a little perspective to think about. However, don't dwell on that possibility - it's quite small, I think, and it's better to just move away from them and move on. Maybe they'll turn around one day and say, "Hey, I'm sorry about that time. Can you forgive me?", but that is very unlikely. Don't put your stakes on that, and move on.
And really, you don't want to deal with people like my "friend". It's difficult to change their minds when they got manipulated like that.
posted by curagea at 8:42 PM on October 2, 2008
I had a "friend", who I knew for about five years, thought he was caring, and when he gave his tough-love speeches, I suckered up to him and thought he was right, I'm an idiot, I should "get tough", yada yada. Eventually he accused me of acting like an emo kid just so I can gain attention and have people pity me. Then he said "fuck you" to me and we cut ties - and I'm damn grateful for that.
That "friend" I mentioned - he dealt with people who DID manipulate him with "woe is me" moments, so maybe he got a little paranoid when it comes to depressive people. I just want to say, maybe that's the case with your "friends". It's a little perspective to think about. However, don't dwell on that possibility - it's quite small, I think, and it's better to just move away from them and move on. Maybe they'll turn around one day and say, "Hey, I'm sorry about that time. Can you forgive me?", but that is very unlikely. Don't put your stakes on that, and move on.
And really, you don't want to deal with people like my "friend". It's difficult to change their minds when they got manipulated like that.
posted by curagea at 8:42 PM on October 2, 2008
Kind of following on the theme of what Elysum brought up - you should be allowed to have a problem where you didn't handle things well.
You are aware of not handling things well and trying to handle things in another way to improve your life. Don't these friends of your also deserve a chance to try and handle things in another way, in case they don't feel good about they way they acted in the past?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:52 PM on October 2, 2008
You are aware of not handling things well and trying to handle things in another way to improve your life. Don't these friends of your also deserve a chance to try and handle things in another way, in case they don't feel good about they way they acted in the past?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:52 PM on October 2, 2008
I think you need to realize that this is one of those areas (like previous AskMe threads about what friends have or haven't said after a miscarriage, etc), where sometimes even our best friends just don't know what to say or do because they haven't ever experienced anything vaguely similar to what you're going through. So you have those folks who are at a loss as to what to say, or who say 'the wrong thing', and you may have some folks, like Elysum, who have witnessed self harm used as a manipulation device, and (reasonably, in my opinion) don't want to be forced into playing some role by the manipulator.
I've personally been on both the receiving and giving end of this situation. Last year my birthday came and went without word from my best friend. I was surprised that I hadn't heard from him, as he knew I was pregnant, and on doctor mandated bedrest as there were indications that the baby was going to come too early, and I'd already lost one in a miscarriage. Needless to say (I'd think), I had a lot on my mind. I heard from my friend a week later, calling from a hospital to let me know that he'd tried to commit suicide on my birthday, and was in pretty poor shape due to the failed attempt. Maybe it's due to crazy pregnancy hormones, maybe it's due to other circumstances I've left out for the sake of brevity, but I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to feel as if, somehow, this suicide attempt wasn't directed at me, and I don't see how this event will ever stop intruding upon our relationship now.
Like Mael Oui, I can say that I have suffered from (diagnosed) depression for a majority of my life. But I can also say that there's not a damn thing that anyone could say to me, or do for me, when I'm really down in it, that would make a difference to what I am or am not going to do in terms of ending the situation. My friends cannot fix me, nor would I ever, ever want them to feel as if it is their responsibility to do so.
I have concern for my best friend, I wish he didn't feel what he felt, think what he thought, that would drive him to a suicide attempt, but there's nothing I can do to make him get the help he needs, either. If anyone, friend or otherwise, revealed to me that they were suicidal, I would provide them with all the information I have in terms of how they can seek help, but this is one of those areas in life (like addiction), where it is truly up to the person suffering from the problem to do or not do something about it.
It sounds like you're doing what you need to do to help yourself. I think you should concentrate on that for the moment (it's only been a month, after all!), and address the issue of the healthiness of your friendships with your therapist.
posted by toodles at 8:53 PM on October 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
I've personally been on both the receiving and giving end of this situation. Last year my birthday came and went without word from my best friend. I was surprised that I hadn't heard from him, as he knew I was pregnant, and on doctor mandated bedrest as there were indications that the baby was going to come too early, and I'd already lost one in a miscarriage. Needless to say (I'd think), I had a lot on my mind. I heard from my friend a week later, calling from a hospital to let me know that he'd tried to commit suicide on my birthday, and was in pretty poor shape due to the failed attempt. Maybe it's due to crazy pregnancy hormones, maybe it's due to other circumstances I've left out for the sake of brevity, but I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to feel as if, somehow, this suicide attempt wasn't directed at me, and I don't see how this event will ever stop intruding upon our relationship now.
Like Mael Oui, I can say that I have suffered from (diagnosed) depression for a majority of my life. But I can also say that there's not a damn thing that anyone could say to me, or do for me, when I'm really down in it, that would make a difference to what I am or am not going to do in terms of ending the situation. My friends cannot fix me, nor would I ever, ever want them to feel as if it is their responsibility to do so.
I have concern for my best friend, I wish he didn't feel what he felt, think what he thought, that would drive him to a suicide attempt, but there's nothing I can do to make him get the help he needs, either. If anyone, friend or otherwise, revealed to me that they were suicidal, I would provide them with all the information I have in terms of how they can seek help, but this is one of those areas in life (like addiction), where it is truly up to the person suffering from the problem to do or not do something about it.
It sounds like you're doing what you need to do to help yourself. I think you should concentrate on that for the moment (it's only been a month, after all!), and address the issue of the healthiness of your friendships with your therapist.
posted by toodles at 8:53 PM on October 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
My friend was in a similar situation to yours this past year. After he let everyone know how horrible he was feeling and that he attempted to take his own life, only two people -- myself and another friend -- talked to him about it and made sure he knew we were there for him.
Two other people did not. This was very upsetting to my friend. I told him it doesn't necessarily mean that those people think he's crazy and have turned on him, but for the time being they weren't being good friends and he had done nothing to deserve their silence. This is just as true in your situation. However badly these people treat you, never lose sight of the fact that they are the ones in the wrong, not you. I also told him that if he wanted to cut off ties with those people, it would be reasonable. It is.
In the meantime, I made an effort to talk to those friends and figure out why they had not spoken to him. Here is what happened with those two, so you can see some possible reasons why someone may react in ways that seem hostile or apathetic.
First friend: She felt that she had grown apart from our depressed friend over the past few years. This is true; they were closer friends at the beginning of college, but that was six years ago and everyone drifted apart, especially when college ended. It was not that she did not care about our friend, but she thought that perhaps he would not want to hear from her, or might feel that it's none of her business.
After speaking to me, she realized that was a silly thing to think. I told her that when I was depressed in high school, it meant a great deal to me when even acquaintances seemed to care more than I thought they would. Someone expressing support, no matter how uninvolved they may have been in the past, I think is almost always viewed favorably by someone who needs that support. On the other hand, when you're depressed and you expect support from friends, not getting that support can be devastating.
She understood that after the fact. At the time, though, she simply didn't know what to do, and I have some sympathy for that. After explaining the situation to our depressed friend, he is speaking to her again and she doesn't second-guess the instinct to be supportive. However, he still feels some resentment toward her, and I don't blame him for that either; she should have been there for him and she wasn't. What might have happened if I and the other friend who took the time for him hadn't, either?
It's a messy situation, but she recognizes that she didn't handle the situation well and apologized profusely and sincerely. Sometimes people can genuinely care and still make bad decisions.
Second friend: He was much closer to the depressed friend, and his silence hurt my friend deeply. But this second friend simply didn't know what to say.
It can be difficult when we want support from our friends, and they want to give us support, but they just aren't good at dealing with others' emotions. I urged this friend to contact our depressed friend and apologize, and explain to him why he hadn't said anything, and he acknowledged that it was the best option he had and he would do so.
Every time I saw this friend, and every time I see him today, he asks how our depressed friend is doing. This shows that he cares a lot. But for whatever reason, he simply couldn't handle the situation. It took him a few months to contact our depressed friend, and by that point, it was deemed too little too late. So that friendship is essentially dissolved, and he has to rely on me to tell him how our friend is doing.
Again, I understand why my depressed friend cut him out of his life; he and I are both the kind of person who feel that a friend who isn't there for you when you need them isn't a true friend. But I also know that second friend cares a lot about him and just is horrible at expressing it to his face. When it comes down to it, though, I can't blame someone for not wanting to deal with that disappointment again. I have a lot of sympathy for the friend he cut out, though, since it's a very human mistake he made, and it was not out of malice.
So when I read that your friend said you sounded "fucking crazy," I think it could be a few things. Maybe she's a real bitch. Or maybe she cares but erroneously thought that "tough love" is what you need. Maybe she's just bad at dealing with others' emotions. But even if we are to assume the best about her, do you still want to be friends with her knowing that she will inadvertently disappoint and upset you when you need her most? There's no right answer. If you cut her out, I think it would be reasonable. If you decide not to cut her out, but to remember that you can't rely on her for support, that would be reasonable to.
Or maybe your other friend has the same problem as the "second friend" I discussed above. Maybe she's silent because she doesn't know what to say, or she worries that she'll say something to make things worse. The same decision ultimately applies, though: are you okay with that, or are you not? And whatever you chose, I think, would be reasonable.
Personally, in the past I've tended to cut those people out of my life. Not maliciously, but just because I would rather not have to deal with that drama, and because I have friends that are there to support me. This has worked well for me, but others have done the opposite and it's worked for them, too. Whatever you decide to do, I think you'll be okay.
Sorry you have to go through this. When things get emotionally sticky, we see sides of our friends that we haven't before, and the results aren't always what we'd like. Good luck.
posted by Nattie at 9:52 PM on October 2, 2008
Two other people did not. This was very upsetting to my friend. I told him it doesn't necessarily mean that those people think he's crazy and have turned on him, but for the time being they weren't being good friends and he had done nothing to deserve their silence. This is just as true in your situation. However badly these people treat you, never lose sight of the fact that they are the ones in the wrong, not you. I also told him that if he wanted to cut off ties with those people, it would be reasonable. It is.
In the meantime, I made an effort to talk to those friends and figure out why they had not spoken to him. Here is what happened with those two, so you can see some possible reasons why someone may react in ways that seem hostile or apathetic.
First friend: She felt that she had grown apart from our depressed friend over the past few years. This is true; they were closer friends at the beginning of college, but that was six years ago and everyone drifted apart, especially when college ended. It was not that she did not care about our friend, but she thought that perhaps he would not want to hear from her, or might feel that it's none of her business.
After speaking to me, she realized that was a silly thing to think. I told her that when I was depressed in high school, it meant a great deal to me when even acquaintances seemed to care more than I thought they would. Someone expressing support, no matter how uninvolved they may have been in the past, I think is almost always viewed favorably by someone who needs that support. On the other hand, when you're depressed and you expect support from friends, not getting that support can be devastating.
She understood that after the fact. At the time, though, she simply didn't know what to do, and I have some sympathy for that. After explaining the situation to our depressed friend, he is speaking to her again and she doesn't second-guess the instinct to be supportive. However, he still feels some resentment toward her, and I don't blame him for that either; she should have been there for him and she wasn't. What might have happened if I and the other friend who took the time for him hadn't, either?
It's a messy situation, but she recognizes that she didn't handle the situation well and apologized profusely and sincerely. Sometimes people can genuinely care and still make bad decisions.
Second friend: He was much closer to the depressed friend, and his silence hurt my friend deeply. But this second friend simply didn't know what to say.
It can be difficult when we want support from our friends, and they want to give us support, but they just aren't good at dealing with others' emotions. I urged this friend to contact our depressed friend and apologize, and explain to him why he hadn't said anything, and he acknowledged that it was the best option he had and he would do so.
Every time I saw this friend, and every time I see him today, he asks how our depressed friend is doing. This shows that he cares a lot. But for whatever reason, he simply couldn't handle the situation. It took him a few months to contact our depressed friend, and by that point, it was deemed too little too late. So that friendship is essentially dissolved, and he has to rely on me to tell him how our friend is doing.
Again, I understand why my depressed friend cut him out of his life; he and I are both the kind of person who feel that a friend who isn't there for you when you need them isn't a true friend. But I also know that second friend cares a lot about him and just is horrible at expressing it to his face. When it comes down to it, though, I can't blame someone for not wanting to deal with that disappointment again. I have a lot of sympathy for the friend he cut out, though, since it's a very human mistake he made, and it was not out of malice.
So when I read that your friend said you sounded "fucking crazy," I think it could be a few things. Maybe she's a real bitch. Or maybe she cares but erroneously thought that "tough love" is what you need. Maybe she's just bad at dealing with others' emotions. But even if we are to assume the best about her, do you still want to be friends with her knowing that she will inadvertently disappoint and upset you when you need her most? There's no right answer. If you cut her out, I think it would be reasonable. If you decide not to cut her out, but to remember that you can't rely on her for support, that would be reasonable to.
Or maybe your other friend has the same problem as the "second friend" I discussed above. Maybe she's silent because she doesn't know what to say, or she worries that she'll say something to make things worse. The same decision ultimately applies, though: are you okay with that, or are you not? And whatever you chose, I think, would be reasonable.
Personally, in the past I've tended to cut those people out of my life. Not maliciously, but just because I would rather not have to deal with that drama, and because I have friends that are there to support me. This has worked well for me, but others have done the opposite and it's worked for them, too. Whatever you decide to do, I think you'll be okay.
Sorry you have to go through this. When things get emotionally sticky, we see sides of our friends that we haven't before, and the results aren't always what we'd like. Good luck.
posted by Nattie at 9:52 PM on October 2, 2008
Those of us who do not suffer from real nuclear-grade Depression have a hard time understanding those who do. This does not mean that we don't like you, but when we give you platitudes about Bucking Up and Muddling Through It until you reach a New Day, it's because that's what works for us.
In addition, it is difficult, exhausting, and frankly really boring dealing with another person's Depression, even if you love them. It is fine to listen for a while, but when we tell you to see a therapist or take some pills or "buck up," it is because any or all of those three things will help you more than any other assistance or assurance us braindead slobs are going to be able to give you.
So: while your friends indeed sound like buttheads and fair weather friends, please remember that a Depressed person - again, even and especially if you love them - can be a difficult energy-sucking void to be around, and we are not trained nor necessarily able to help you in any real, substantive way.
That's what psychologists and psychiatrists are for. You can share with your friends, but they cannot bear this burden alone. Professionals, and only professionals, can help in you ways we laymen will never be qualified to help. So if you miss your friends, call them up. But know their limitations.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:43 PM on October 2, 2008 [5 favorites]
In addition, it is difficult, exhausting, and frankly really boring dealing with another person's Depression, even if you love them. It is fine to listen for a while, but when we tell you to see a therapist or take some pills or "buck up," it is because any or all of those three things will help you more than any other assistance or assurance us braindead slobs are going to be able to give you.
So: while your friends indeed sound like buttheads and fair weather friends, please remember that a Depressed person - again, even and especially if you love them - can be a difficult energy-sucking void to be around, and we are not trained nor necessarily able to help you in any real, substantive way.
That's what psychologists and psychiatrists are for. You can share with your friends, but they cannot bear this burden alone. Professionals, and only professionals, can help in you ways we laymen will never be qualified to help. So if you miss your friends, call them up. But know their limitations.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:43 PM on October 2, 2008 [5 favorites]
I wanted to give you some options in my last post,
but I do want to fully agree with what others have said - an awful lot of people have a lot of suck aka trouble dealing with... well, all sorts of things.
And it is not your fault.
On a sidetrack:
It's not just depression, it's not even just for mental illness, it's when someone gets sick, it's when someone has been hospitalised, in ER, or needs someone to come through for them in a legal situation, or have just had a baby and are feeling stuck and isolated at home, a divorce, a death, every damn thing!
There are the flitterers in life, and the users, who won't be there for you for any of those things, and there are the wonderful people who you both want to emulate, and have more of in your life, who are there for ALL of those things, and then there are... the many, many people who can only come through in a few of those instances, because of ignorance or issues of their own.
In friendship, don't compromise on those issues that are really dearest to you, because some people who can't handle funerals, hospitals, etc etc, will still be there to help you move, with babysitting, etc etc. But you need to feel safe, and close, that they will be there for those most important things to you. Sometimes it only takes a word in advance, for someone to realise what it would mean for you. Sometimes you realise that a certain friendship will be supportive in some of those ways, but not for others, and act accordingly.
The thing to keep in mind is - we're social animals.
In times of need - a call, a note, a hug, a few words to let someone know you're thinking of them, mean SO MUCH.
And sorry for this big tangent, but I often trawl through AskMefi on topics because it's like... the miss manners of what to do, in situations I haven't thought about happening, or have - and really could use the advice. So, that leads me too...
Many people let their own fear or mild discomfort at taking action on their part, blinker them to what they would be giving in that action, to their friend. Sometimes people have REAL BIG issues that hinder them from helping, and phobias etc. And sometimes, you can hang back, because because there's other people there, they'll understand that you can't do that much to help in the circumstances.
But, in every other cases - if you feel uncomfortable going to a hospital, think how much scarier it is to be there! Especially if there aren't many visitors.
You have no idea what to do with babies, and now a good friend has had one, and is stuck at home doing the frantic new parent thing - ask when a good time to visit would be? (Maybe not the first few weeks, but wow, those few months afterwards can be lonely - speaking as a friend, not from experience). Oh, and if you have a cup of tea or something, offer to clear up and just - do their dishes before you leave? It'll generally be appreciated far more than many of the baby shower presents..
And... holy crap. If a friend of yours (speaking to EVERYONE) is ever misfortunate enough to be Sectioned (ie Mental Health). Woah. Is that a topic that people avoid like the plague! I mean, sure the concept of visiting a mental ward scares the willies out of them.
Ok, once you've visited someone in a mental ward? You'll know why you really have to go. Because as scary as it is to visit, it's a much, much scarier for someone you know to be in there, without support from friends and family.
If you don't know what to do or say, the two best things you can say are "I care for you" and "I'm here for you". Sometimes, any more than that might not be what they need, but letting them know those two things, helps dearly.
It seems like not that long ago that I felt alone, and isolated, and didn't have a network of good friends. At other times, I realise how long it's been. Now I do. And many of those friendships were forged, through me being there for *them*, in almost all the examples I've mentioned above (except legal - I've been lucky on on side, and I'd be useless on the other). That's what turns acquaintances into friends, and they're all people I know I can count on.
We give each other so much, I am staggered by the bounty I receive. I'm still helping them as and how I can, and when I have depressive patches, they're the ones helping me.
One day, you'll be there, and you'll be able to give someone the support that they need at the time. And it will really help, both them and you.
posted by Elysum at 11:23 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
but I do want to fully agree with what others have said - an awful lot of people have a lot of suck aka trouble dealing with... well, all sorts of things.
And it is not your fault.
On a sidetrack:
It's not just depression, it's not even just for mental illness, it's when someone gets sick, it's when someone has been hospitalised, in ER, or needs someone to come through for them in a legal situation, or have just had a baby and are feeling stuck and isolated at home, a divorce, a death, every damn thing!
There are the flitterers in life, and the users, who won't be there for you for any of those things, and there are the wonderful people who you both want to emulate, and have more of in your life, who are there for ALL of those things, and then there are... the many, many people who can only come through in a few of those instances, because of ignorance or issues of their own.
In friendship, don't compromise on those issues that are really dearest to you, because some people who can't handle funerals, hospitals, etc etc, will still be there to help you move, with babysitting, etc etc. But you need to feel safe, and close, that they will be there for those most important things to you. Sometimes it only takes a word in advance, for someone to realise what it would mean for you. Sometimes you realise that a certain friendship will be supportive in some of those ways, but not for others, and act accordingly.
The thing to keep in mind is - we're social animals.
In times of need - a call, a note, a hug, a few words to let someone know you're thinking of them, mean SO MUCH.
And sorry for this big tangent, but I often trawl through AskMefi on topics because it's like... the miss manners of what to do, in situations I haven't thought about happening, or have - and really could use the advice. So, that leads me too...
Many people let their own fear or mild discomfort at taking action on their part, blinker them to what they would be giving in that action, to their friend. Sometimes people have REAL BIG issues that hinder them from helping, and phobias etc. And sometimes, you can hang back, because because there's other people there, they'll understand that you can't do that much to help in the circumstances.
But, in every other cases - if you feel uncomfortable going to a hospital, think how much scarier it is to be there! Especially if there aren't many visitors.
You have no idea what to do with babies, and now a good friend has had one, and is stuck at home doing the frantic new parent thing - ask when a good time to visit would be? (Maybe not the first few weeks, but wow, those few months afterwards can be lonely - speaking as a friend, not from experience). Oh, and if you have a cup of tea or something, offer to clear up and just - do their dishes before you leave? It'll generally be appreciated far more than many of the baby shower presents..
And... holy crap. If a friend of yours (speaking to EVERYONE) is ever misfortunate enough to be Sectioned (ie Mental Health). Woah. Is that a topic that people avoid like the plague! I mean, sure the concept of visiting a mental ward scares the willies out of them.
Ok, once you've visited someone in a mental ward? You'll know why you really have to go. Because as scary as it is to visit, it's a much, much scarier for someone you know to be in there, without support from friends and family.
If you don't know what to do or say, the two best things you can say are "I care for you" and "I'm here for you". Sometimes, any more than that might not be what they need, but letting them know those two things, helps dearly.
It seems like not that long ago that I felt alone, and isolated, and didn't have a network of good friends. At other times, I realise how long it's been. Now I do. And many of those friendships were forged, through me being there for *them*, in almost all the examples I've mentioned above (except legal - I've been lucky on on side, and I'd be useless on the other). That's what turns acquaintances into friends, and they're all people I know I can count on.
We give each other so much, I am staggered by the bounty I receive. I'm still helping them as and how I can, and when I have depressive patches, they're the ones helping me.
One day, you'll be there, and you'll be able to give someone the support that they need at the time. And it will really help, both them and you.
posted by Elysum at 11:23 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't think you need to give up on your friends, necessarily.
As has been said above, people don't always respond in the best possible way, no matter how much they do care. And at any given moment, depending on what's going on with their own lives, they may not actually be able to care in any helpful way as much as at other times, or as much as you expect, or as much as they would want to. They're fallible human beings themselves -- they're not television characters reading from the friend script. No matter how much they love you.
I know what I'm talking about. I'm bipolar. Until I hit 36 and finally got it through my head that I really did need to take the meds every day for the rest of my life, I used to go through apocalyptic depression about once a year. Tough on my family, tough on my friends. In the depths of my misery I was looking for (in a way wanting) evidence that nobody really cared about me: A Good Friend would say this, if she Really Loved Me he'd do that, Oh God he said this and it made me feel worse. But people do what they do, people are who they are, and in the end no one could have said or done anything to pull me out until I found the strength to pull myself out. Which I did when I was ready, and not before.
Which you're doing now. Part of coming out of depression is learning to be not so hard on yourself, learning or relearning that you are a worthwhile person worthy of love. With that, you'll invariably be less hard on, or maybe skeptical of is a better word, the people you love. Whatever they said or didn't say, it wouldn't have mattered -- you had to beat this yourself, and you're doing it. Whether these are people you really do feel close to, whether you are on the whole getting what you want from these relationships, time will tell. When you are fully out of the pit, and can be sure you're not secretly looking for proof that you are unloved and alone, you'll see more clearly.
Until then, give yourself permission to be screwed up -- and give everybody else, especially the people you love, permission to be screwed up too. We're all bozos on this bus.
Welcome back.
posted by Methylviolet at 1:07 AM on October 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
As has been said above, people don't always respond in the best possible way, no matter how much they do care. And at any given moment, depending on what's going on with their own lives, they may not actually be able to care in any helpful way as much as at other times, or as much as you expect, or as much as they would want to. They're fallible human beings themselves -- they're not television characters reading from the friend script. No matter how much they love you.
I know what I'm talking about. I'm bipolar. Until I hit 36 and finally got it through my head that I really did need to take the meds every day for the rest of my life, I used to go through apocalyptic depression about once a year. Tough on my family, tough on my friends. In the depths of my misery I was looking for (in a way wanting) evidence that nobody really cared about me: A Good Friend would say this, if she Really Loved Me he'd do that, Oh God he said this and it made me feel worse. But people do what they do, people are who they are, and in the end no one could have said or done anything to pull me out until I found the strength to pull myself out. Which I did when I was ready, and not before.
Which you're doing now. Part of coming out of depression is learning to be not so hard on yourself, learning or relearning that you are a worthwhile person worthy of love. With that, you'll invariably be less hard on, or maybe skeptical of is a better word, the people you love. Whatever they said or didn't say, it wouldn't have mattered -- you had to beat this yourself, and you're doing it. Whether these are people you really do feel close to, whether you are on the whole getting what you want from these relationships, time will tell. When you are fully out of the pit, and can be sure you're not secretly looking for proof that you are unloved and alone, you'll see more clearly.
Until then, give yourself permission to be screwed up -- and give everybody else, especially the people you love, permission to be screwed up too. We're all bozos on this bus.
Welcome back.
posted by Methylviolet at 1:07 AM on October 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Please don't take their rejection personally -- your "friends" reacted to you as an illness, not as a person with an illness, and certainly not as you with an illness.
Unfortunately, mental health stigma is alive and kicking, and prejudices run deep.
As a teenager, I experienced clinical depression with psychotic episodes. I gouged a hole in my leg "with a sharp object" and needed stitches, but I still don't know how I did it. I played with razorblades and overdosed.
Re-read the above paragraph again.
What's your immediate assessment of me? That I'm dangerous, incompetent, out of control and probably unattractive? Or that I'm loving, successful, reliable, and probably cute?
More than fifteen years later, I still feel that it's not acceptable for me to talk about my darkest depressive experiences, on a personal level, in many social circles. And I still fear being rejected by men if I tell them. In fact, I've even been known to downgrade my experiences to "just a touch of the blues."
Like you (how do you feel being identified with me?) I was shunned on different occasions. It hurt like hell to be ostracised by people when I needed them the most.
Years later I believe my “friends” reacted poorly to my illness in a misguided attempt to protect themselves -- and their world view. Bad things don't happen to good people -- or do they? And if bad things do happen to good people -- where does that leave me? You must be weak! You must be bad! I'm nothing like you! *turns back and runs*
Stay strong, Jaleesa! Don't close your heart, but give yourself permission to cocoon -- you've been betrayed, and your world view has been shattered. Concentrate on self care and give yourself permission to cycle through the stages of grief. Because you've been betrayed -- and your world view has been shattered.
Last but not (by any means) least, keep in mind that depression can drive us to build a strong internal locus of control -- and even contribute to our positive transcendence.
posted by elke at 4:53 AM on October 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, mental health stigma is alive and kicking, and prejudices run deep.
As a teenager, I experienced clinical depression with psychotic episodes. I gouged a hole in my leg "with a sharp object" and needed stitches, but I still don't know how I did it. I played with razorblades and overdosed.
Re-read the above paragraph again.
What's your immediate assessment of me? That I'm dangerous, incompetent, out of control and probably unattractive? Or that I'm loving, successful, reliable, and probably cute?
More than fifteen years later, I still feel that it's not acceptable for me to talk about my darkest depressive experiences, on a personal level, in many social circles. And I still fear being rejected by men if I tell them. In fact, I've even been known to downgrade my experiences to "just a touch of the blues."
Like you (how do you feel being identified with me?) I was shunned on different occasions. It hurt like hell to be ostracised by people when I needed them the most.
Years later I believe my “friends” reacted poorly to my illness in a misguided attempt to protect themselves -- and their world view. Bad things don't happen to good people -- or do they? And if bad things do happen to good people -- where does that leave me? You must be weak! You must be bad! I'm nothing like you! *turns back and runs*
Stay strong, Jaleesa! Don't close your heart, but give yourself permission to cocoon -- you've been betrayed, and your world view has been shattered. Concentrate on self care and give yourself permission to cycle through the stages of grief. Because you've been betrayed -- and your world view has been shattered.
Last but not (by any means) least, keep in mind that depression can drive us to build a strong internal locus of control -- and even contribute to our positive transcendence.
posted by elke at 4:53 AM on October 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
As someone who's been dealing with depression in others most of my life, but has rarely been depressed personally, I wanted to chime in.
What Optimus Chyme said is true. Absolutely true. For years, I allowed the problems of my depressed friends to be my own. I would sacrifice an enormous amount of time and energy to being their support system. And it made me feel absolutely batty, especially as my own emotional needs were usually ignored (by both myself & them).
So I learned to create distance, for my own self-preservation. Sometimes this would mean acting, perhaps, callously to people who were depressed, setting up boundaries that were artificially high because I could not deal with their illness or the feelings it brought out in me. I'd like to think I've found a happy medium these days, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of my friends who are/have been depressed didn't think I was emotionally giving enough. But the truth is that, once I start to give, it often feels like I've never given enough--from either of our perspectives. That feeling is an incredibly draining one.
And generally, having friends with depression is incredibly draining. And difficult to deal with. Because the truth is, the only person who can truly make an impact on that depression is the depressed person. Although she spoke indelicately, your friend was, in a way, right--you needed to take control, and that's what you're doing (good for you!) I would just keep in mind that depression can be hard on those around you, too, and often people don't know what to say about such things, anyway. I don't think that withdrawing from the depressed person necessarily indicates a lack of caring, or means that the withdrawer doesn't love you. Sometimes they just an't deal. I don't think that makes them a horrible person, or a horrible friend.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:12 AM on October 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
What Optimus Chyme said is true. Absolutely true. For years, I allowed the problems of my depressed friends to be my own. I would sacrifice an enormous amount of time and energy to being their support system. And it made me feel absolutely batty, especially as my own emotional needs were usually ignored (by both myself & them).
So I learned to create distance, for my own self-preservation. Sometimes this would mean acting, perhaps, callously to people who were depressed, setting up boundaries that were artificially high because I could not deal with their illness or the feelings it brought out in me. I'd like to think I've found a happy medium these days, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of my friends who are/have been depressed didn't think I was emotionally giving enough. But the truth is that, once I start to give, it often feels like I've never given enough--from either of our perspectives. That feeling is an incredibly draining one.
And generally, having friends with depression is incredibly draining. And difficult to deal with. Because the truth is, the only person who can truly make an impact on that depression is the depressed person. Although she spoke indelicately, your friend was, in a way, right--you needed to take control, and that's what you're doing (good for you!) I would just keep in mind that depression can be hard on those around you, too, and often people don't know what to say about such things, anyway. I don't think that withdrawing from the depressed person necessarily indicates a lack of caring, or means that the withdrawer doesn't love you. Sometimes they just an't deal. I don't think that makes them a horrible person, or a horrible friend.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:12 AM on October 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Another thing to consider: When I'm at the bottom of a depression-hole, I tend to cut myself off from the world. I miss friends' birthdays. I don't call them. I don't answer the phone. Sometimes I don't answer e-mails. I will go for months without speaking to or seeing my closest friends.
And some of them get this. They understand it, because they are really amazing people who have hung in there and tried to wrap their brains around what I am going through.
But there are other friends I've lost along the way because they take it personally. They think I don't care, that I'm too wrapped up in myself, that I'm not trying hard enough, that I don't want them around, that I don't want to be there for them but expect them to be there for me. And sometimes they're a little bit right -- just in that I lose myself and my perspective sometimes.
But see, they don't get it because they haven't been where you are, or where I've been, and some of them never will understand. It's not because they're bad people, but -- in the cases of some of my friends -- they think I've been a bad friend. I won't deny it, but I will say that of course there have been a million times I've been there for them ... just not when I'm at the bottom of a hole.
I wonder if your friends see things this way. If they feel that you're self-absorbed (you have every right to be) or that you're uncaring (a misinterpretation, but fine), or that you're just draining to talk with right now.
So yeah. There are a lot of things a depressed person can do that will drive friends away -- and it's not your fault, obviously, but it's good to look out for those behaviors and make sure they're understood.
Hopefully your friends' abandonment is temporary. Sometimes it's not. And when it comes down to it, it's not because either of you have done anything wrong. It's just that you can't understand one another.
Anyway, if you think you have done something -- something that you can logically say is uncool -- maybe take some time to write an e-mail and explain what you're going through and to apologize for particular behaviors to the extent that you feel it's appropriate. And tell your friends, honestly, what has hurt you. Telling you to buck up isn't going to help, and your friends should know that.
I'd give them another chance, if I were you. They're probably in uncharted waters here, too.
posted by brina at 8:07 AM on October 3, 2008
And some of them get this. They understand it, because they are really amazing people who have hung in there and tried to wrap their brains around what I am going through.
But there are other friends I've lost along the way because they take it personally. They think I don't care, that I'm too wrapped up in myself, that I'm not trying hard enough, that I don't want them around, that I don't want to be there for them but expect them to be there for me. And sometimes they're a little bit right -- just in that I lose myself and my perspective sometimes.
But see, they don't get it because they haven't been where you are, or where I've been, and some of them never will understand. It's not because they're bad people, but -- in the cases of some of my friends -- they think I've been a bad friend. I won't deny it, but I will say that of course there have been a million times I've been there for them ... just not when I'm at the bottom of a hole.
I wonder if your friends see things this way. If they feel that you're self-absorbed (you have every right to be) or that you're uncaring (a misinterpretation, but fine), or that you're just draining to talk with right now.
So yeah. There are a lot of things a depressed person can do that will drive friends away -- and it's not your fault, obviously, but it's good to look out for those behaviors and make sure they're understood.
Hopefully your friends' abandonment is temporary. Sometimes it's not. And when it comes down to it, it's not because either of you have done anything wrong. It's just that you can't understand one another.
Anyway, if you think you have done something -- something that you can logically say is uncool -- maybe take some time to write an e-mail and explain what you're going through and to apologize for particular behaviors to the extent that you feel it's appropriate. And tell your friends, honestly, what has hurt you. Telling you to buck up isn't going to help, and your friends should know that.
I'd give them another chance, if I were you. They're probably in uncharted waters here, too.
posted by brina at 8:07 AM on October 3, 2008
No, no, no, don't call them. What's done is done and while you're working hard on healing yourself, you don't need to try and reconstruct relationships that weren't healthy. Healthy friendships don't end when one party is having trouble! Healthy friendships don't result in people not-calling for a month! Focus on what IS healthy in your life and accept that these people just aren't in your life right now.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:20 AM on October 3, 2008
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:20 AM on October 3, 2008
People are weak. I don't mean you--them. You were strong enough to admit a tough thing to them and they could not handle it. Do not take it as meaning that they did not care, instead accept that some people run from those situations because of weakness. I'm certain they are ashamed.
Contacting them again wouldn't help. But don't take their opinions about it as meaning anything about any sort of "self worth" you might have. You are the only one who needs to make those decisions about yourself.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:48 AM on October 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Contacting them again wouldn't help. But don't take their opinions about it as meaning anything about any sort of "self worth" you might have. You are the only one who needs to make those decisions about yourself.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:48 AM on October 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
What Optimus Chyme said is also true for those of us who are familiar with nuclear grade depression. When it comes down to it, depression is a private party. When anything you say or do bounces off the depressed person's wall of despair without making an impression, unless it backs up whatever the depressed person is thinking anyway, you start feeling like nothing you say or do matters anyway, so why bother? They're an energy suck and a broken record and it gets very frustrating to deal with someone so incredibly, stubbornly illogical.
Fortunately (?) as someone who deals with her own depression, I know that just getting little messages, texts, and phone calls helps immensely. But getting texts and emails and voicemail messages that just say "I'm thinking about you. I love you. Call me if I can do something. Call me if you want to do something." is hugely helpful, even if I'm too screwed up to respond in a sane manner. And, as someone who's been depressed, (and grown up with depressed people, and has lots of depressed friends-jeez! wtf, s_m!), I can detach and not to take it personally when they don't respond to logical thought processes or suggestions, like eating. Normal people will get frustrated a lot faster because Duh! Eat!
I don't know that I'd cut those friends off. I have huge sympathy for them, and we don't even know their background. (Elysum gave a good example of how people end up allergic to this stuff.) I would try two things:
1) once you're out of your depression, educate them on what they can do to help if it happens again. Be reasonable. Telling them that short emails are nice to get even if you don't respond to them is okay. Telling them they need to sit with you during the long cold nights while you cry about the universe is not okay, even if, while you're depressed, that seems like the least a friend would do, if they loved you!
2) recognize that some friends are good for somethings and other friends are good for others. I wouldn't cut a surfing friend out of my life because he hated going to the opera. If these friends are good for other things, keep them for those. Just don't expect from them what they obviously can't give.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:03 AM on October 3, 2008
Fortunately (?) as someone who deals with her own depression, I know that just getting little messages, texts, and phone calls helps immensely. But getting texts and emails and voicemail messages that just say "I'm thinking about you. I love you. Call me if I can do something. Call me if you want to do something." is hugely helpful, even if I'm too screwed up to respond in a sane manner. And, as someone who's been depressed, (and grown up with depressed people, and has lots of depressed friends-jeez! wtf, s_m!), I can detach and not to take it personally when they don't respond to logical thought processes or suggestions, like eating. Normal people will get frustrated a lot faster because Duh! Eat!
I don't know that I'd cut those friends off. I have huge sympathy for them, and we don't even know their background. (Elysum gave a good example of how people end up allergic to this stuff.) I would try two things:
1) once you're out of your depression, educate them on what they can do to help if it happens again. Be reasonable. Telling them that short emails are nice to get even if you don't respond to them is okay. Telling them they need to sit with you during the long cold nights while you cry about the universe is not okay, even if, while you're depressed, that seems like the least a friend would do, if they loved you!
2) recognize that some friends are good for somethings and other friends are good for others. I wouldn't cut a surfing friend out of my life because he hated going to the opera. If these friends are good for other things, keep them for those. Just don't expect from them what they obviously can't give.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:03 AM on October 3, 2008
Or. What brina said, more succinctly.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:05 AM on October 3, 2008
posted by small_ruminant at 10:05 AM on October 3, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks for all of the really, really helpful comments. In response to the 'I might have been draining to them' theory - you're right, they probably didn't like hearing me be so negative for the first three months I was here every time we talked. Their response was always "why don't you just move back, you're being ridiculous." Neither of them have ever tried moving to a new city, and both of them are married so I think it is just a case of, they can't relate to a lot of factors here. Oh - and no, they generally rarely called so most of our communication has been over e-mail and IM about all of this, which can get dicey.
It's true what someone else said about how this period ended up giving me a "a strong internal locus of control" and I just generally feel like an entirely different person now. And I DID learn that I have two other friends back home who were very supportive - by which I mean called me once a week to check in, e-mailed to see how I was, etc. I wasn't expecting anyone to be my free counselor! I just wanted them to wonder how I was doing, which my two 'best' friends I guess, do not. I really don't want to hate them forever or become bitter about the nature of friendship. I'm just going to focus on my life here, now, and getting better, and see this all as a bracing lesson.
The one wrinkle: I'm going to a wedding in a month for a couple (who doesn't know what I've been going through) and both friends-on-the-outs be there (my other two friends who know the deal will not be there). I feel like my not going would be burning a bridge to this set of friends, but wish me luck in trying to get through it as gracefully as possible. Thanks again for all the great advice.
posted by Jaleesa at 10:19 AM on October 3, 2008
It's true what someone else said about how this period ended up giving me a "a strong internal locus of control" and I just generally feel like an entirely different person now. And I DID learn that I have two other friends back home who were very supportive - by which I mean called me once a week to check in, e-mailed to see how I was, etc. I wasn't expecting anyone to be my free counselor! I just wanted them to wonder how I was doing, which my two 'best' friends I guess, do not. I really don't want to hate them forever or become bitter about the nature of friendship. I'm just going to focus on my life here, now, and getting better, and see this all as a bracing lesson.
The one wrinkle: I'm going to a wedding in a month for a couple (who doesn't know what I've been going through) and both friends-on-the-outs be there (my other two friends who know the deal will not be there). I feel like my not going would be burning a bridge to this set of friends, but wish me luck in trying to get through it as gracefully as possible. Thanks again for all the great advice.
posted by Jaleesa at 10:19 AM on October 3, 2008
In college I had friends who, when I told them I was depressed, advised me to convert to their brand of Christianity and be "saved."
They were nice people, and doubtless meant the best, but it confirmed my atheism.
posted by bad grammar at 9:00 PM on October 3, 2008
They were nice people, and doubtless meant the best, but it confirmed my atheism.
posted by bad grammar at 9:00 PM on October 3, 2008
I've been thinking about your post, and there's one thing about this that really disturbs me. Okay, there could be a legitimate excuse for what she said to you. I'm sure it is difficult to know how to deal with a friend's depression. If it were just indelicate words.. But severing all ties with you? Anything could have happened to you since you two last spoke. Even if one doesn't 'understand' depression, can a friend really sit idly by after someone they care about mentions suicide? Anyway, I admire your strength, and I wish you luck in the future, and certainly for the wedding.
posted by Mael Oui at 9:05 PM on October 3, 2008
posted by Mael Oui at 9:05 PM on October 3, 2008
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The worst case is they aren't really interested in any kind of friendship that requires an effort.
Which of these two is the case should determine whether you make an effort.
posted by rodgerd at 6:27 PM on October 2, 2008 [4 favorites]