Would you like to tell me about landing a date in Chicago?
September 25, 2008 7:44 PM   Subscribe

Y'know what? Dating in Chicago is hard for a lady in her early thirties. I beg for wisdom. Won't you please tell me where to go to meet single dudes in this city of mine?

I am a tad shy but friendly, and I dare say I've made some valiant attempts to get myself *out* there. Y'know...out there. Let me tell you about it: I enter the workplace daily (showered). I go to well-attended drinking establishments on a semi-regular basis (not a drunk). I volunteer (altruistic). I take long, meandering walks around the neighborhood (adventurous!). I go to the gym (athletic!). Hell, I go to neighborhood meetings and farmers markets (a real lover of community). I make a monthly appearance at Critical Mass, a veritable petri dish of compelling male bacteria. Whereupon eye contact is made, I smile widely. No dice. Granted, I do not do these things with the sole intent of landing a date, but these are the things that social, dateable humans do, yes? I even went the online route, but I think I must be going on the wrong sites because the same seven guys are on there daily, posing with acoustic guitars and referencing breast size.

What to do? I don't think I'm an ogre, but I am beginning to question my ogre status. I am capable of holding up a conversation about people and things and I look good in jeans. People have not infrequently cooed "Ohhhh, you're so cute!" at me. Maybe this is a problem. This is definitely a problem. But seriously. Is 30 the end of the line on the Chicago dating scene, or what? Is there a secret underground network of Chicago daters? Will you take me there or draw me a map?

I am at a loss. I did not see any other posts about this. I would like to go on dates with nice chaps.

Friendly advice appreciated. Mean advice will be sneered at and expunged from my memory bank.
posted by porkcake to Human Relations (38 answers total) 12 users marked this as a favorite
 
No, 30 is not the end.

Do you go to these events/places with friends? I'd suggest two or three other women... not a big crowd, and definitely not with just one other woman. That might help.

I haven't dated in a long time. But my guess is you should try doing group outings, so folks can mingle and not feel like they need to attach to one person at a time.

I'm in my thirties, live in Chicago, and have a bunch of single friends. Don't give up, just make it social, fun and low pressure. BTW, critical mass seems like a great place to meet people.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 7:54 PM on September 25, 2008


Caveats: lives in Chicago, married. One thing I notice about your extracurricular type activities is that they seem either of the solitary flavor or of the 'mass gathering' flavor. Is there any type of team sport you'd be interested, rather than going to the gym? If your volunteering is solo, how about habitat for humanity or some type of small group project? If you go to critical mass, how about a smaller biking club or subset inside it? It seems to me like most of the couples I've seen couple up come out of shared-interest social groups or the interaction of two said groups at a bar.
posted by true at 7:59 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Not in Chicago. Not having a problem dating. However, have you given any thought to bar trivia teams? Some friends of mine have, completely by accident, done well in this way.

Also, yeah, what kind of volunteering are you doing? If it's not something with teamwork...

Do your friends, all of them, know you are looking?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:09 PM on September 25, 2008


Ask someone out.

When I say "ask" I mean actually pose the question. Don't hint. Don't suggest. Don't merely sit there and smile hoping he'll notice. Don't point in the general direction of a question. Quit waiting to be asked, and go do the asking. I'm serious.

Simply go, and ask someone out.
posted by aramaic at 8:09 PM on September 25, 2008 [6 favorites]


Sounds like you're doing everything sociable people do just fine, so it's probably not a you problem at all.

Also, you're funny. Combine that with looks-good-in-jeans and heck, I'd jump an airplane tomorrow if I wasn't already over-committed, so I'm sure lots of other people would too. ;)

I've never understood the problem in meeting/dating, and I think I'm pretty average looking all around... heck, I see a lot of actually scary-nasty looking people with boy/girlfriends on the street every day. So even without seeing you, I can confidently predict that it's certainly not a problem with looks. I bet it's just a communication gap. As True says, maybe you need some nudging toward one-on-one situations. So the next time you're chatting with someone interesting in a group, try some "It's kind of boring in here today." or "I'm getting hungry." or some other very easy opening.

Or start watching for those openings yourself. The next time a guy says "It's too loud in here to think", don't just agree. Take the bait and suggest ducking down the street for a quieter drink.
posted by rokusan at 8:23 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


aramaic has a good point.

Are you finding people you like at these events? If so, act on it. Ask them out. I'd be overwhelmingly flattered if a woman I met at say, critical mass, asked me out. It's 2008. No one at critical mass will be offended or think negatively of you if you ask them out to dinner. Just make it seem fun, and low pressure.

Excellent advice.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 8:24 PM on September 25, 2008


And yes, Aramaic has good advice too if you can do it. You'll get some rejections, but so what.
posted by rokusan at 8:25 PM on September 25, 2008


How's your flirting skills? From your description, it sounds like you're showing up, which is half the battle, but you're not lassoing people and letting them know how utterly cool you are (I mean making friends), inviting those people out for coffee, and acting like you're even available to be interested in.

You're out there. Excellent. Now, go put on your mental sexy boots and play the game again. Invite people out for coffee, lunch, pie dates, hay rides, (although in Chicago, I'd like to see that..) whatever you know is going on.

Final words:
You become available to date by making your time available for dating activities.
posted by msamye at 8:28 PM on September 25, 2008


Thanks for your answers so far, folks.

I don't typically hang out with what would be deemed a 'large group.' Usually one or two others, and often alone. One would think that this would make one more approachable. Wouldn't one?
Hm.

Flirting may be a problem. Outright flirting I have to work on.

aramaic's point is certainly taken. If I want to go out with the dudes, I have to ask the dudes out. The fact is that when I smile at someone in public, the slightest baring of one's teeth in return could be enough to mobilize me to the point of propositioning. This doesn't happen with any consistency. To approach someone for dating purposes without even exchanging appreciative facial gestures could be about as good for my self-esteem as a sagging jawline.

Sigh. I suppose I must try to rally my guts.
posted by porkcake at 9:17 PM on September 25, 2008


Leaving aside for the moment that with a MeFi name like porkcake, you may have trouble landing hot action with the Semitic brothers...

I'll say first that Aramaic has it. We men have many fine qualities. But ubtlety and nuance in dating do not tend to be among them. Some of us (not me) take the slightest interest expressed by a woman to be license to act like a jackass. Many others of us (probably me sometimes) will come up with any reason to believe that the interest someone is showing is not capital-i Interest, despite normal confidence levels in other respects.

So yes, be unsubtle. Be direct. The ones you scare off you probably don't want.

In terms of Chicago proper, if you browse the Missed Connections ads on Craigslist, you'll discover that people wish they had spoken to others in all kinds of situations. But of course, this being Chicago, the el and buses come up a ton. One more reason to ditch the car (and maybe the bike too, sometimes).

Chicago neighborhoods also tend to have strong demographic qualities. A lot of the neighborhoods where you find the strongest "famers markets and neighborhood meetings" are also the neighborhoods where you find the highest concentrations of young families. You don't say where you're living, but it's probably easier to be single in Lakeview than Lincoln Square, for example.

(This whole thread reminds me of a question I've pondered from time to time: There's MetaJobs and MetaProjects... why no MetaDate? Or perhaps, MetaMate? Or MetaMeet? Okay, now I'm making myself a little bit ill.)
posted by j-dawg at 9:19 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


I've been a dude for nigh-on 40 years, and everytime I see a woman asking this question, I find a combination of one or more of several different things present, which all adds up to their present state of date-less-ness.

1) The inability to accurately gauge how long the dry spell has really been going on, and how long dry spells generally last for most people.

"I can't meet anyone!"
"How long have you been trying?"
"A whole week! Can you believe it!"
"Grr."

2) The inability to see good things right in front of them.

"I can't meet anyone!"
"Well, you know me, don't you?"
"Yeah, but I couldn't date you. You're my friend."
"Grr."

3) The inability to accurately gauge one's own appearance.

"I can't meet anyone!"
"Well..."
"But I look good!"
"Well ... you could try something different, maybe? New hair?"
"No, that's not it."
"Grr."

4) The inability to accurately gauge the worth of your current date-seeking activities.

"I can't meet anyone!"
"Where are you looking?"
"Community meetings, Critical Mass and farmers markets."
"So, you're looking for neighborhood cranks, gay guys and middle-aged yuppie women?"
"But I'm into community!"
"I thought you were looking for a date?"
"But I'm into community!"
"Grr."

5) The inability to take responsibility for their own happiness.

"I can't meet anyone!"
"Maybe you should ask someone out?"
"Oh, I couldn't do that."
"But I thought you said you were social and fearless and empowered and shit?"
"No, I couldn't. That's just not me."
"Grr."

And finally...

6) The inability to realize that there's no magic bullet.

"I can't meet anyone!"
"Listen, I just told you that you need to work longer at it, look for things right in front of you, read a friggin' Cosmo and get some outfit ideas, stop looking for love at the goddamm Neighborhood Watch meetings, and ask somebody out. Just do it. The answer is in an f'n Nike poster, it's not some long lost arcane lore."
"But do you know where I can meet cute guys?"
"Grr."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:23 PM on September 25, 2008 [28 favorites]


well, i'm married now but a few years ago i was a guy looking for someone just like you. i went online. it took a bit of time, and i went though a couple of freaks that put up a pretty good act, and a few others where things didn't work out. i never put up an ad myself--i took a quick look at the ones other guys put up and figured it was a waste of time.

my wife posted an online ad that had some very specific requirements that i found intriguing. much later, she told me of the chaff that her ads generated, but she did get a couple of decent replies that she followed up on.

before online dating, i tried the things you did, and found them pretty tough to get any meaningful relationships out of them. people tended to go to things like that with their friends. i found that contacting people via email was a great way to deal with people who had the same objective (well, maybe not quite the same objective) as i did, which was a pretty good starting point.

post an ad or two with a throwaway address and see what you get. vary as needed. ignore the guitar hugging breast lovin' cretins that respond.

as a side note, if yr really desperate, i do have a friend on the northwest side that is desperately in need of a date. he's a bit weird, but not in a 'let's play naked scrabble on the first date' kind of weird, but otherwise has a lot of qualities that makes him a very compelling man. mefi mail me if you wish to follow up on this.
posted by lester at 9:27 PM on September 25, 2008


I think you need to not think though it so much. Maybe you are over analyzing reactions etc., just relax and talk to guys. Ask them silly questions. You will meet someone.
posted by lee at 9:33 PM on September 25, 2008


Put this exact post on Craigslist, but put a tag line on it that if they are one of the seven guys with a guitar and a line of bs that you will personally jam that guitar up their ass. If they want to know about your breast size they're going to have to meet you for a bike ride on the lake front and be observant.

You are funny and I'd bet you're fun, and I'd bet if the guy you're looking for saw this post he'd think so also. Post it again a week later. Then again. There is no shame in this -- you are up front, telling people who you are and what you're looking for.

Last. Your upper age limit might have to raise, on the guys who you are willing to date. No, I'm not talking geriatrics, but if you're closing the door off at 32 you might be doing yourself a disservice. And I'm not talking about dating rodents, just expand a tad, upwards; there are plenty of hot 37 year old guys stomping the streets there, looking for you.
posted by dancestoblue at 9:36 PM on September 25, 2008


It's true that my neighborhood is not prime dating territory, and of course farmers markets and neighborhood meetings are not either. Those are simply things I enjoy to do and proof that I'm not holing up in my hovel with the expectation of getting lucky.

I agree that the internets may deserve another look-see, but damn do they appear bleak.

Thanks for really telling it like it is, Cool Papa Bell. I'm going to look into a subscription to a women's magazine straightaway.

Lester, tell your weird friend it's a go.
posted by porkcake at 10:05 PM on September 25, 2008


In New York, at least, Craigslist seems impossibly sketchy. OKCupid has a younger, but also much less creepy/chronic, crowd. Good luck!
posted by booksandlibretti at 10:21 PM on September 25, 2008


I'd say a few things. First, don't approach people with the intent of asking them out. Approach attractive men and just start a conversation with them. A stupid conversation about whatever comes to mind. If they respond without brushing you off, they're at least mildly interested. And even if you don't ask them out, or they don't ask you, you're at least working two important muscles: your flirt muscle and your aware-of-other-people-being-interested-in-you muscle. And those two will eventually get you a date, and a lot of them. As has been said, you're probably cute and have a good sense of witty banter about you, so you actually needing this advice is probably slim. We're not helping you get a date, we're helping you get a date faster.

The second thing:
You said groups of one or two or alone, and that this makes you more approachable? Nuh uh. I mean, they're not terrible. You're never unapproachable. But if you're in a slightly larger group that's pretty loosely organized, it'll be easier for the guy to approach you without being targeted by the people around you. They'll be in conversation with each other and politely ignore what's happening while rooting for you to totally make it happen. If you're by yourself the guy might think you're waiting for someone to show up or come back or you're not interested. If you're looking for a decent dude, that is.

And lastly, related to above, get yourself a wingman. Someone who'll make that initial small talk with a dude and present you as a super awesome person and then disappears as you and boy begin talking and flirting. Can't stress how useful a good friend who's willing to flirt on your behalf is. Ideally you find more than one, and then you have your group above. You want people who aren't dependent on you to have fun, but have fun with you. That way when you're macking they aren't bothered, and when you're not everybody else is wanting to come over and have fun with your crew.

Good luck. I think you'll do well; dating is an odd game, because no matter what rules you decide to play by you're going to score at least a little.
posted by ictow at 11:56 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


There's MetaJobs and MetaProjects... why no MetaDate? Or perhaps, MetaMate? Or MetaMeet?

Hopefully it wouldn't just be another MetaMeat.
posted by rokusan at 1:03 AM on September 26, 2008


Misnamed dating groups:

1) Wine tasting clubs
2) Cooking clubs
3) Hiking clubs
4) Book clubs
5) Well, pretty much any type of Meetup, Craigslist group, or semi-organized group with less than 20 people attending*.

I have been hit on a zillion times at all of these type of these events. Of course, some events are heavily biased towards women attendees (e.g. knitting circles) so choose wisely. I would avoid anything that is actually named as a "singles only" group, since people come to these with prior expectations. An exchange of emails pursuant to discussing restaurants, things to see, hiking trails, etc. flows naturally from conversation without "asking out" anyone in a focused small group. Bonus is that you actually prove your abilities and fitness by cooking, hiking, or parasailing in the presence of your possible suitors. Meeting someone in a bar doesn't prove anything except that they can quaff liquor.

* Exclude linux-based gatherings
posted by benzenedream at 1:31 AM on September 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Once you're done with lester's weird friend on the Northwest side, check your MeFi mail. Recently landed in Chicagoland, always up to meet new people.
posted by GamblingBlues at 4:25 AM on September 26, 2008


Thanks for really telling it like it is, Cool Papa Bell. I'm going to look into a subscription to a women's magazine straightaway.

I think you are missing the point of his (?) post, if it's that easy for you to dismiss.

If something happens once in a while, you call it bad luck or fate or whatever. But if it keeps happening, and keeps happening, and keeps happening, while other people have different results, at some point you have to admit that the common factor is yourself.

Seeing as how your post here has already gotten you two date offers (plus whatever might have come in via MeMail), how can you possibly call the internet "bleak"? Given the ratio of men to women on most (if not all) online dating sites, and the density of population in Chicago, well, the odds should be in your favor, you know?

It's true that my neighborhood is not prime dating territory, and of course farmers markets and neighborhood meetings are not either. Those are simply things I enjoy to do and proof that I'm not holing up in my hovel with the expectation of getting lucky.

But they're also proof that you are leaving your hovel with the expectation of getting lucky... and then spending your time in places where getting lucky is a pretty distant possibility. And if you aren't going up to someone who is cute and talking to them, and if they appear to be single and not a total weirdo asking them out, well, what are you expecting to happen?

So yeah, I'm sort of with Cool Papa Bell on this one, with the caveat that not everything CPB wrote may really apply in your specific case. But something you are doing (or several somethings) isn't working, and unless you are willing to look critically at those things and makes some changes, it's hard to see how you can expect different results. (I'd note here that posting this AskMe and being willing to say "yes" to the date offers that ensue is doing something different, and is a perfect example of realizing that the current path isn't working and trying something new.)
posted by Forktine at 5:31 AM on September 26, 2008 [2 favorites]


I can guarantee that learning to dance something like salsa, rumba, ballroom, tango, lindy, or west coast swing will automatically put you in a pool of eligible single people. There are plenty of places in Chicago that cater to dancers. A favorite place of mine is Club Rumba and the place is packed with potential.
posted by JJ86 at 5:58 AM on September 26, 2008


I'll second the above plug for OKCupid as one route to explore. I'm a 31-year-old gay guy, so my experience may not be exactly reflective of yours. But that site has led to some good dates with high-quality, non-weird guys. It's probably worth taking a stab at it, as part of an overall strategy.

Also, what farmers markets do you go to? I work at some of them; maybe we've met.
posted by veggieboy at 7:28 AM on September 26, 2008


Just hours before you posted this, several Chicago MeFites were hanging out, drinking beers and eating cheeseburgers at the Billy Goat. I believe a few of the attendees were single men. We're a fun group, and meetup pretty regularly. Keep an eye on MetaTalk.
posted by misskaz at 7:31 AM on September 26, 2008


Ditto the usual clubs, and I haven't heard anyone mention classes yet.
Those are small, loose gatherings with folks with similar interests. Often there's a break in the middle, good chance to socialize briefly on the porch or in the lobby and gain impressions. If this were me, I'd be tempted to try for a cup of coffee afterwards (meaning after most of these things) and offer discussion of whatever the current topic is, or something related. There's a reason why most "online" or various kinds of blind dates start with a meeting for coffee. It's a safe public area, and if it's not working out, you can bail fast and you're not committed for anything over a half hour, but still open-ended if it does seem to be working out. You can offer a card at the end, business or personal, with email of choice, and then the ball is in their court. That's if you don't feel comfy asking for a whole date with someone you barely know.
Disclaimer: I've been off the market a very long time. When I wasn't, I used to eat breakfast at the same coffee shop, and would often offer a comment about the weather to someone I'd seen there a few times, and then let it drop. If they're looking, they'll usually offer a few sentences back. (Check for wedding rings first.)
posted by unrepentanthippie at 7:43 AM on September 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Have you told your friends that you want to meet guys? That's the thing that you seem to be leaving out of the equation here. At least half of the happily married or partnered people I know met their spouses and partners through friends. Mr. Sidhedevil and I were set up by a friend (although I didn't know that's what she was doing, because I am dense).

Tell your friends that you want to meet guys. Go to all the parties your friends invite you to.

Friends of friends are your best dating pool.

And if that doesn't work, then OKCupid or similar. Because at least half of the half of my happily married/partnered friends met their spouses and partners through a dating service or online dating.
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:48 AM on September 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I'd give OK Cupid a try, just for the hell of it. That's how I met my boyfriend, who I now live with. I also made a couple friends through there, so it was an all-around success. And I live in Chicago, BTW. In my late 20s.
posted by Windigo at 9:08 AM on September 26, 2008


Single but in NYC and 10 years older than you, but maybe my advice might help. Find places and things to do where you will actually talk to people, and where there is freedom to range across topics. Bonus points for places where you can hear each other, maybe touch, and meet a bunch of people at once. I am thinking something like a short term class or event, like bourbon-tastings or lectures with lots of mingling built into the process. Stolen glances across a mass of cyclists is fun, but won't go anywhere unless you two can talk. My thing is salsa classes which I did as a kind of stretch to get me out of my many ruts. It really fits the bill because you dance with everyone in class, there are opportunities to talk, it's social but also educational, and there are opportunities to then go out and dance in clubs with classmates while you bond about being new to this dance form. If you do things you like you will meet people who share your interest (important) and you will mostly likely be comfortable with yourself and happy in such an environment and thus be more attractive.

As for calling yourself shy, you might want to rethink that as it could be holding you back. I used to say I was shy and used it as an excuse for not doing certain things, not talking to certain people. I realized two important things about shyness that made me stop saying I was shy: (1) people who are not shy (don't define themselves that way and don't seem to be shy) have moments of shyness and nervousness but they do it anyway; (2) shy people will often say that they are fine talking to other people but when they get around someone to whom they are attracted they get nervous and tongue-tied....this happens to pretty much EVERYONE, so it's not really you being a shy person, it's just you being shy in a situation that matters. Personally, I found it very helpful to simply stop describing myself as shy; that led to me actually doing things that I wouldn't have otherwise, and that gave me the confidence to keep going. I still get shy but I think of it as an emotion rather than a personality trait.
posted by kenzi23 at 9:38 AM on September 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


If you're going out and not finding anyone, you might want to try online dating. The advantage of online dating is that the candidates you're choosing from are in fact single, and they're all in one place.

In Chicago, single women outnumber single men by some tens of thousands. In the offices where I've worked there is always an abundance of single women, but almost all the men are married or engaged. (Or very young. Sometimes there is a precious older divorced guy, but hands off him, because I've called dibs.) So you're not imagining it; a good single man is hard to find (because there are hardly any, speaking by the numbers).

Dating through mefi meetups has not particularly worked for me so far. No offense to anybody that I haven't actually tried dating.
posted by iguanapolitico at 9:51 AM on September 26, 2008


(I should have said, try online dating some more. My cousin met his wife that way, and I have a handful of other friends who are married or living together from the online scene. And these are pretty normal people, not in any weird niche, not computer geeks, etc, not that there's anything WRONG with that; I'm just sayin.)
posted by iguanapolitico at 10:01 AM on September 26, 2008


Thanks for really telling it like it is, Cool Papa Bell. I'm going to look into a subscription to a women's magazine straightaway.

Don't take yourself so seriously. The fact that that is what you zeroed in on, like a toddler aiming for a juice box, might say a lot about what the problem is.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:03 AM on September 26, 2008


In the offices where I've worked there is always an abundance of single women, but almost all the men are married or engaged

I am clearly in the wrong line of work. Curse you, engineering & construction, curse you!
posted by aramaic at 10:06 AM on September 26, 2008


I'm going to suggest that you continue to look online, but not through personal ads. You sound nice. And normal-ish. It's been my experience that okcupid is not where you want to look, certainly not as an over-thirty female. (I strongly suspect that I'll be shouted down and reviled for any such hint or suggestion, but I've been dating online through personal ads for over ten years, and I hold to that opinion.)

I think you'd have better luck with online interest groups, like local mailing lists or such for anything you're interested in: french? photography? Meetups can be fun.
posted by tejolote at 10:27 AM on September 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Also, I can't stress enough the importance of networking, as much as I hate the word. I've met quite a lot of potential dates through friends, or friends of friends. Go out and make friends, even when there's no obvious "opportunity." How large is your friends-circle? Find ways to expand it. Board game nights, dinner clubs, movie groups, etc. Or hiking and camping if you're an active sort.
posted by tejolote at 10:30 AM on September 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


I met my fiance at a social volunteer organization. If you don't meet someone, at least you can feel good about helping others and you may even make some friends who can introduce you to someone. Try this: one brick

They have a chicago chapter.
posted by bananafish at 10:48 AM on September 26, 2008


Go over to your nearest yacht club and sign up for Fall frostbiting.
posted by MiffyCLB at 10:52 AM on September 26, 2008


Just hours before you posted this, several Chicago MeFites were hanging out, drinking beers and eating cheeseburgers at the Billy Goat. I believe a few of the attendees were single men.

*blush*
posted by adamdschneider at 5:29 PM on September 26, 2008


Lower your standards?

Not for nothing, and if this doesn't really apply to you, don't take it personally-

I admit to being lazy and a bit of a homebody, but as a single guy, I browse the dating sites. And a LOT of the ads look like what you just said to us here. And my gut reaction is "that person seems to live a busy, hectic lifestyle. how would dating fit in?"

Maybe that's not who you are, but what you wrote looks sort of like what these people write.

And I've dated people like that. "Hey, let's go to dinner at this nice place I heard about?" "Oh, I can't, I have knitting club project due." "Hey, let's go see that one movie." "Aww, that's sweet, but I have to weed my community garden plot." "My grandmother is sick, would you come with me to visit?" "Oh, I can't, today is the day I volunteer at the hospital reading to the elderly. I wish I had time!"

Again, I'm sure it's just me being judgmental (still single, ladies!). But I find people who go out of the way to show off all the exciting, cool stuff they are doing to be quite boring.

I think dudes want to know more about who you are than hear about cool events you attended. "Really, you showed up at a rally and bought a skiing package? Wow, it's like I've known you all my life."

So my advice would be to show off who you are no matter what you're doing, not the stuff you do. That's what's interesting and attractive. Life is what happens when we're not trying to look cool.
posted by gjc at 9:13 PM on September 26, 2008


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