don't ask questions if you don't want to hear the answers
September 25, 2008 5:38 PM Subscribe
I saw something I wasn't supposed to see and now I'm not sure how to deal.
I have a friend JD, we've know each other a couple years. When we met, he was dating my roommate but they eventually broke up. Six months or so after they broke up (and we all were living in new apartments) JD started pursuing me very aggressively. He would call me many times a week, he told me he loved me, and made more than one attempt to initiate making out/sex.
These gestures happened over a period of about three months.let him down, trying to save face for both of us by acting like it all never happened.
We were still friends, in the sense that we would hang out few or few hours or grab a drink together every few weeks. He would tell me about new people he was seeing. I started seeing another man.
He was over at my apartment two nights ago. He left himself logged into gmail. I found this out when I went to go check my email. On the first page of conversations, I saw my name in a subject line.
It was wrong of me to click, but I did.
It was an ongoing conversation about me, talking about me to friends of his I've never even met.
The gist of the what I read made me sick. After one of the nights where we hung out and he tried to kiss me and I would not, he told his friend that he had planned to make a move but "she was so boring she made my boner die." He portrays me as very physically attractive, but lacking brains or sense.
Anyway, it really hurts and I just never ever ever want to deal with him again. I have to finish an art project we are working on together, but after that I want to be out of life.
I don't want to confront him about this because
a) I hate confrontation
b) He owes me no explanantion for things that were said in private he never expected me to see
He will try to get to the bottom of things if I coldly ignore him, but right now I don't see a better way to handle it.
I'm asking if the hive mind has any better ideas how to handle this, and suggestions for dealing with the hurt. I know now (better than ever) why snooping is bad, but feel free to chastise me for snooping regardless.
I have a friend JD, we've know each other a couple years. When we met, he was dating my roommate but they eventually broke up. Six months or so after they broke up (and we all were living in new apartments) JD started pursuing me very aggressively. He would call me many times a week, he told me he loved me, and made more than one attempt to initiate making out/sex.
These gestures happened over a period of about three months.let him down, trying to save face for both of us by acting like it all never happened.
We were still friends, in the sense that we would hang out few or few hours or grab a drink together every few weeks. He would tell me about new people he was seeing. I started seeing another man.
He was over at my apartment two nights ago. He left himself logged into gmail. I found this out when I went to go check my email. On the first page of conversations, I saw my name in a subject line.
It was wrong of me to click, but I did.
It was an ongoing conversation about me, talking about me to friends of his I've never even met.
The gist of the what I read made me sick. After one of the nights where we hung out and he tried to kiss me and I would not, he told his friend that he had planned to make a move but "she was so boring she made my boner die." He portrays me as very physically attractive, but lacking brains or sense.
Anyway, it really hurts and I just never ever ever want to deal with him again. I have to finish an art project we are working on together, but after that I want to be out of life.
I don't want to confront him about this because
a) I hate confrontation
b) He owes me no explanantion for things that were said in private he never expected me to see
He will try to get to the bottom of things if I coldly ignore him, but right now I don't see a better way to handle it.
I'm asking if the hive mind has any better ideas how to handle this, and suggestions for dealing with the hurt. I know now (better than ever) why snooping is bad, but feel free to chastise me for snooping regardless.
I suspect he's a meanie who left that there intentionally for you to find. Otherwise, he is just too stupid to live. Just act like you didn't see it, and just be increasingly cool and distant because you have something else on your mind. Just walk away from a twit like this. Anything else is better to think about. The guy is laughably pathetic!
I don't think snooping is the worst thing in the world. Shrug.
posted by Listener at 5:47 PM on September 25, 2008 [7 favorites]
I don't think snooping is the worst thing in the world. Shrug.
posted by Listener at 5:47 PM on September 25, 2008 [7 favorites]
Just keep with your former m.o. of making like it didn't happen, and thank your lucky stars you read it when you did. After the art project, silently slip away.
Not to complicate things, but he also may have been trying to save face with his friends. Not that I think that's better.
posted by atchafalaya at 5:49 PM on September 25, 2008
Not to complicate things, but he also may have been trying to save face with his friends. Not that I think that's better.
posted by atchafalaya at 5:49 PM on September 25, 2008
I suspect he's a meanie who left that there intentionally for you to find. Otherwise, he is just too stupid to live.
I agree times a thousand. I'm sorry you're hurt - I would be too. Finish the project, walk away, you'll be telling this story and laughing at parties in the future. Trust.
posted by meerkatty at 5:53 PM on September 25, 2008
I agree times a thousand. I'm sorry you're hurt - I would be too. Finish the project, walk away, you'll be telling this story and laughing at parties in the future. Trust.
posted by meerkatty at 5:53 PM on September 25, 2008
I agree with the above, except I don't think you're obligated to finish your joint art project. If it's a school thing, and not a personal thing, talk to your professor. Explain that the situation makes you uncomfortable and that you need to find another partner.
The possibilities, as I see them:
1) He left it for you to see, as Listener says. (Not necessarily voting for this one, but it is possible. I know if I were discussing someone I liked in an email, their name would certainly not be in the subject line.)
2) He really likes you, and told his friend so, and now feels like he has to make macho excuses to his buddy for why he hasn't yet sealed the deal.
3) The stuff he said about you isn't macho posturing, but is the way he really feels. Yet he's so convinced that he can get you into bed, he keeps trying.
That's what I can come up with. You don't know which is true, and you won't unless you confront him. (And even then, you might not get the full story.)
If nothing else, what you DO know, for a fact, is that you've made it clear that you're not interested, and he keeps trying. That's not friendship -- he's not respecting you.
You shouldn't have had to see those emails in order to decide that the friendship isn't worth it for you.
Tell him the friendship isn't working out for you. Tell him you feel that he's not respectful of you, and that it ends here. Resist his attempts to explain or apologize. Tell him he'll need to find someone else to finish the art project with, or that you're going to find someone else to collaborate with, but that you won't be working on it together.
The bottom line is, he has been and is being disrespectful, and you don't need to find an excuse to put an end to that. Remind yourself that you're worth more, then move on.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:58 PM on September 25, 2008 [7 favorites]
The possibilities, as I see them:
1) He left it for you to see, as Listener says. (Not necessarily voting for this one, but it is possible. I know if I were discussing someone I liked in an email, their name would certainly not be in the subject line.)
2) He really likes you, and told his friend so, and now feels like he has to make macho excuses to his buddy for why he hasn't yet sealed the deal.
3) The stuff he said about you isn't macho posturing, but is the way he really feels. Yet he's so convinced that he can get you into bed, he keeps trying.
That's what I can come up with. You don't know which is true, and you won't unless you confront him. (And even then, you might not get the full story.)
If nothing else, what you DO know, for a fact, is that you've made it clear that you're not interested, and he keeps trying. That's not friendship -- he's not respecting you.
You shouldn't have had to see those emails in order to decide that the friendship isn't worth it for you.
Tell him the friendship isn't working out for you. Tell him you feel that he's not respectful of you, and that it ends here. Resist his attempts to explain or apologize. Tell him he'll need to find someone else to finish the art project with, or that you're going to find someone else to collaborate with, but that you won't be working on it together.
The bottom line is, he has been and is being disrespectful, and you don't need to find an excuse to put an end to that. Remind yourself that you're worth more, then move on.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:58 PM on September 25, 2008 [7 favorites]
Not to complicate things, but he also may have been trying to save face with his friends. Not that I think that's better.
That's the first thing I thought of. That, and the fact that you've been politely turning him down and constantly bruising his ego. It doesn't mean he's not childish and stupid, but I have a feeling there's absolutely nothing wrong with you.
I support the tactic of just growing colder and more distant. Slowly. If he wonders why, say "I guess I'm just distracted by [all sorts of wonderful things going on in your life]."
posted by oneirodynia at 6:01 PM on September 25, 2008
That's the first thing I thought of. That, and the fact that you've been politely turning him down and constantly bruising his ego. It doesn't mean he's not childish and stupid, but I have a feeling there's absolutely nothing wrong with you.
I support the tactic of just growing colder and more distant. Slowly. If he wonders why, say "I guess I'm just distracted by [all sorts of wonderful things going on in your life]."
posted by oneirodynia at 6:01 PM on September 25, 2008
"she was so boring she made my boner die." = I made out with her and I got rejected.
Everyone knows this, there's a million ways to say it. I have guy friends who, apparently, never get rejected but have some sort of outside event come in at the last minute to save everyone the awkwardness. No, getting rejected is really hard and people deal with it in different ways. $100 that friend on the other end knows exactly what this means. Don't know if this helps his apparent lack of maturity but just so yo know, the following phrases also mean that a guy made a move and got rejected:
"We decided to just be friends"
"She was drunk and I didn't think it would be appropriate"
"She seemed slutty so I decided not to"
"I just got cockblocked by some guy friend of hers"
I prefer the much more direct, if not ambiguous, "Yeah, it just didn't happen." It is a lot easier to say than, "Yeah I made a move, she rejected me and later that night was making out with a more attractive guy."
Finish project, slip away.
posted by geoff. at 6:01 PM on September 25, 2008 [12 favorites]
Everyone knows this, there's a million ways to say it. I have guy friends who, apparently, never get rejected but have some sort of outside event come in at the last minute to save everyone the awkwardness. No, getting rejected is really hard and people deal with it in different ways. $100 that friend on the other end knows exactly what this means. Don't know if this helps his apparent lack of maturity but just so yo know, the following phrases also mean that a guy made a move and got rejected:
"We decided to just be friends"
"She was drunk and I didn't think it would be appropriate"
"She seemed slutty so I decided not to"
"I just got cockblocked by some guy friend of hers"
I prefer the much more direct, if not ambiguous, "Yeah, it just didn't happen." It is a lot easier to say than, "Yeah I made a move, she rejected me and later that night was making out with a more attractive guy."
Finish project, slip away.
posted by geoff. at 6:01 PM on September 25, 2008 [12 favorites]
I think it would be good to walk away.
That being said, as far as dealing with the hurt, he was talking about you behind your back. In that situation, people can be hyperbolical for no good reason. Like it has been pointed out before, he was also probably trying to make himself look better for not "scoring" with you, as he find you attractive. At best, it is an instance of him synthesizing happiness ("oh, she is boring anyways"), at worse, he is an immature jerk.
You are better off walking away either way.
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 6:05 PM on September 25, 2008
That being said, as far as dealing with the hurt, he was talking about you behind your back. In that situation, people can be hyperbolical for no good reason. Like it has been pointed out before, he was also probably trying to make himself look better for not "scoring" with you, as he find you attractive. At best, it is an instance of him synthesizing happiness ("oh, she is boring anyways"), at worse, he is an immature jerk.
You are better off walking away either way.
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 6:05 PM on September 25, 2008
Some people can't stand to admit even to themselves that they've been rejected, so they try to come up with a bullshit version of what's happened that is more palatable. Sometimes they settle for just trying to get others to believe the bullshit version, sometimes they actually believe their own bullshit. But you know what happened, and congratulations on having the good judgment to reject this guy even before this particularly egregious proof that he's not worth your time. He's an asshole, and possibly very stupid as well.
posted by orange swan at 6:12 PM on September 25, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 6:12 PM on September 25, 2008 [5 favorites]
I support the alteration of the partnership on the art project. Hopefully the instructor will understand if you come up with something nonspecific ("I am no longer comfortable working with X and feel that our respective artistic expressions might be best served either alone or with new partners"). If not, fake it until the project is over.
Then, cut him off. Send emails to the spam folder automatically. Block calls. If he insists on finding out why (which may happen if he's that persistent), make sure you've made and kept handy a cardboard tube with a rolled-up, small sketch of you expressionlessly staring through the glass of a fishtank containing at a wilting erection with two tiny X's for eyes and small lobular fins that could double as testicles - all floating belly up. Perhaps the shadows will give the glans a certain skull-like appearance. Use the GMail colors for the fishtank gravel. Maybe with a small title in one corner like "NOT SORRY I MADE YOUR BONER DIE." After that, he might have just enough shame never to bother you again.
posted by adipocere at 6:30 PM on September 25, 2008 [15 favorites]
Then, cut him off. Send emails to the spam folder automatically. Block calls. If he insists on finding out why (which may happen if he's that persistent), make sure you've made and kept handy a cardboard tube with a rolled-up, small sketch of you expressionlessly staring through the glass of a fishtank containing at a wilting erection with two tiny X's for eyes and small lobular fins that could double as testicles - all floating belly up. Perhaps the shadows will give the glans a certain skull-like appearance. Use the GMail colors for the fishtank gravel. Maybe with a small title in one corner like "NOT SORRY I MADE YOUR BONER DIE." After that, he might have just enough shame never to bother you again.
posted by adipocere at 6:30 PM on September 25, 2008 [15 favorites]
Forget this guy and move on, no explanations necessary. He's not your friend and he's behaved badly (and not just in emails behind your back). I think it would be great if you could get out of the art project. Tell your prof that you don't want to go into specifics but that you're uncomfortable with your partner and would like to go in your own creative direction. In any case, don't hang out with this guy at your house anymore. He seems creepy. And, any guy who talks about his "boner" with other guys is a dork anyway.
posted by amanda at 6:33 PM on September 25, 2008
posted by amanda at 6:33 PM on September 25, 2008
Why do you have to finish the art project together? Will the universe implode? Will you be left destitute, homeless, pregnant, addicted to smack? Just cease all contact with this douche.
posted by turgid dahlia at 6:45 PM on September 25, 2008
posted by turgid dahlia at 6:45 PM on September 25, 2008
It sounds like a lie he told his friend to make himself feel better. Tell yourself that in case you are. Also, don't be passive-aggressive. It may take some doing, but confront him about it, because hating confrontation is a sure ticket to all sorts of stuff happening to you.
posted by Electrius at 7:05 PM on September 25, 2008
posted by Electrius at 7:05 PM on September 25, 2008
This is one of those situations which confirms my suspicion that being "nice" (rather than direct and boundary-creating right off) rarely works out for the best. Sorry it's happened. Don't feel obligated to finish the project. And drift away.
posted by Riverine at 7:09 PM on September 25, 2008
posted by Riverine at 7:09 PM on September 25, 2008
One thing that you need to realize is this is not altogether an uncommon way of discussing girls in college-age, all-guy company. Not saying that all guys are like this, but admitting that he was turned down would probably result in ridicule from his friends - especially if they aren't very good friends. Furthermore, he was probably hurt and angry.
That said, if you two are not particularly close, I'd recommend dropping him as a friend. Honestly, his continued advances seem kind of creepy. I just wanted to point out that he most likely didn't mean what he said.
Finally, if you're worried about his friends thinking less of you - as was said earlier, most guys will realize that this is just machismo and will quickly figure out what really happened.
Sorry you have to go through this!
posted by wsp at 7:10 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
That said, if you two are not particularly close, I'd recommend dropping him as a friend. Honestly, his continued advances seem kind of creepy. I just wanted to point out that he most likely didn't mean what he said.
Finally, if you're worried about his friends thinking less of you - as was said earlier, most guys will realize that this is just machismo and will quickly figure out what really happened.
Sorry you have to go through this!
posted by wsp at 7:10 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
You don't have to finish the art project with him.
You don't have to do anything you don't want to do.
You don't have to confront him.
You can let it all just fade away.
And in doing so, you will never be rid of him or the memory of what he did to you. He'll always have that control over you.
What you CAN do is take ownership and control of the situation instead of just reacting to it. You already made an effort at that by having the gumption to take a look at an email that was obviously about you. So what if you did? Doesn't make you a snooper, it makes you proactive about issues concerning your reputation.
Be up front about it all. Tell him what you saw, tell him he sucks, tell him you don't want anything to do with him or his crappy art project, then move on. Hold your head up high and realize you deserve better treatment from someone whether you're around or not. One ruined art project does not a lifetime of self-respect make.
If you don't stand up to such treatment, you will find yourself walking away from such things your entire life. Do you REALLY want a lifetime of someone else holding a level of control over you?
posted by matty at 7:53 PM on September 25, 2008 [3 favorites]
You don't have to do anything you don't want to do.
You don't have to confront him.
You can let it all just fade away.
And in doing so, you will never be rid of him or the memory of what he did to you. He'll always have that control over you.
What you CAN do is take ownership and control of the situation instead of just reacting to it. You already made an effort at that by having the gumption to take a look at an email that was obviously about you. So what if you did? Doesn't make you a snooper, it makes you proactive about issues concerning your reputation.
Be up front about it all. Tell him what you saw, tell him he sucks, tell him you don't want anything to do with him or his crappy art project, then move on. Hold your head up high and realize you deserve better treatment from someone whether you're around or not. One ruined art project does not a lifetime of self-respect make.
If you don't stand up to such treatment, you will find yourself walking away from such things your entire life. Do you REALLY want a lifetime of someone else holding a level of control over you?
posted by matty at 7:53 PM on September 25, 2008 [3 favorites]
nthing the theory that he left it there so you would see it. And you weren't wrong for clicking on an email with your name in the subject line! I bet Mother Theresa used to google herself. All the other advice above is great -- you can decide not to take that shit and tell him what you saw or decide he's not worth the effort that a confrontation would take, the choice is yours -- you've got the power here. matty makes some good points, though - the ability to stand up for yourself is a muscle. Start working it out on small meaningless things and it will get strong enough to be there for you when you really need to kick some ass.
posted by katyjack at 8:07 PM on September 25, 2008
posted by katyjack at 8:07 PM on September 25, 2008
"He left himself logged into gmail." So fuck him. Get cold and fade away.
No reason to confront him - why waste your time on his drama?
Historically, you tried to be friends with this guy, but it just didn't work and you don't with him ill, exactly.
If you were working on an art project together, I gather you will continue to move in the same circles, see each other at events and so on. You can manage a thin smile and move on until he starts avoiding you, saving you the trouble of taking the high road.
Sorry!
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:15 PM on September 25, 2008
No reason to confront him - why waste your time on his drama?
Historically, you tried to be friends with this guy, but it just didn't work and you don't with him ill, exactly.
If you were working on an art project together, I gather you will continue to move in the same circles, see each other at events and so on. You can manage a thin smile and move on until he starts avoiding you, saving you the trouble of taking the high road.
Sorry!
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:15 PM on September 25, 2008
I disagree with matty. A dick like that dude is not going to be abashed by a confrontation with you. It will be a waste of your breath and I will seriously doubt it would be worth you getting worked up over. Be the bigger person and just cut him out of your life. Even in the very best scenario he argue him to a standstill. Not like he didn't already know he was a jerk. Would thaty make you feel any better? Wouldn't work for me. Worse case, he starts talking that crap to your face and tells you that you imagined he was ever interested. Nahhh. Get rid of him ASAP and move on.
posted by CwgrlUp at 8:15 PM on September 25, 2008
posted by CwgrlUp at 8:15 PM on September 25, 2008
Orange swan, you and I agree on every relationship AskMeFi it would seem. :)
OP, this guy is obviously not dealing with your rejection well. I know it's difficult to not be hurt by his comments, but try to let them go. Once you're done with this project simply drop the guy from your life, you certainly don't need his insecurities around.
posted by thatbrunette at 8:17 PM on September 25, 2008
OP, this guy is obviously not dealing with your rejection well. I know it's difficult to not be hurt by his comments, but try to let them go. Once you're done with this project simply drop the guy from your life, you certainly don't need his insecurities around.
posted by thatbrunette at 8:17 PM on September 25, 2008
I started writing, didn't know exactly what to say, hadn't practiced yoga yet today so I just let it go, went and practiced, considered the question as I did so, and came up with my answer.
And Matty beat me to it.
I'm with him 100 percent. But I think go a step more -- tell all your mutual friends, classmates, the professor (if it's an art class you and this jerk are together in), tell everyone with any type of possible interest in this.
You did nothing wrong.
If you don't respond you will carry this around.
No. No way. Unh-uh. Let him carry it around.
Let him know that everyone in your community knows about this, how you took the high road and he begged you, for years, regardless you didn't want any of his action at all. Then his shitty little game with his shitty little friends -- though the fact is that we don't know if they are shitty or not, they may be rolling their eyes and chuckling about what an ass he is, they definitely are doing so if they know him, unless they are other losers like him and unable to get laid.
Tell it matter of fact, information, not "He's a rotten blah blah blah!" but rather "He's not worthy of your friendship, he's got no ethics, he's pathetic." They need to know. You need to tell them.
I'm not much good at standing tall on these sorts of things, sometimes much better than others, and of course it's much easier for me to tell you this and that when I don't have to do it. But I know -- I know for a fact -- that if you don't put the word out on him that this will burn every time you think of it. If it's handled well, if you can pull it off with strength, he will be the laughing stock. Best, he'll not be the laughing stock because of anything you did, but rather because of who he is. You don't need to tell him he sucks -- he knows that, and he'll be reminded of it each time he sees any of your common friends and/or classmates.
Let him burn every time he thinks about it. And he will think about it.
I'm just a guy on the internet. Do what you think will serve you best. I wish you well. I wish you strength and I wish you peace.
posted by dancestoblue at 9:02 PM on September 25, 2008
And Matty beat me to it.
I'm with him 100 percent. But I think go a step more -- tell all your mutual friends, classmates, the professor (if it's an art class you and this jerk are together in), tell everyone with any type of possible interest in this.
You did nothing wrong.
If you don't respond you will carry this around.
No. No way. Unh-uh. Let him carry it around.
Let him know that everyone in your community knows about this, how you took the high road and he begged you, for years, regardless you didn't want any of his action at all. Then his shitty little game with his shitty little friends -- though the fact is that we don't know if they are shitty or not, they may be rolling their eyes and chuckling about what an ass he is, they definitely are doing so if they know him, unless they are other losers like him and unable to get laid.
Tell it matter of fact, information, not "He's a rotten blah blah blah!" but rather "He's not worthy of your friendship, he's got no ethics, he's pathetic." They need to know. You need to tell them.
I'm not much good at standing tall on these sorts of things, sometimes much better than others, and of course it's much easier for me to tell you this and that when I don't have to do it. But I know -- I know for a fact -- that if you don't put the word out on him that this will burn every time you think of it. If it's handled well, if you can pull it off with strength, he will be the laughing stock. Best, he'll not be the laughing stock because of anything you did, but rather because of who he is. You don't need to tell him he sucks -- he knows that, and he'll be reminded of it each time he sees any of your common friends and/or classmates.
Let him burn every time he thinks about it. And he will think about it.
I'm just a guy on the internet. Do what you think will serve you best. I wish you well. I wish you strength and I wish you peace.
posted by dancestoblue at 9:02 PM on September 25, 2008
If it's any consolation, I think my life as a single woman would have been a hell of a lot easier if I had been boner death to men like JD. I didn't get that lucky and apparently neither did you since he's still sniffin' around. Since you don't have boner slaying power on your side, you've got to learn to shoo men like JD out of your life.
However you do it - epic battle or non-confrontational cold shoulder - decide he's gone and then make it so.
posted by 26.2 at 10:09 PM on September 25, 2008
However you do it - epic battle or non-confrontational cold shoulder - decide he's gone and then make it so.
posted by 26.2 at 10:09 PM on September 25, 2008
Let him know that everyone in your community knows about this, how you took the high road
Um, in my books "taking the high road" does not include talking shit about people behind their backs. That's what this guy did.
There's no reason why the OP should stoop to that level, especially if she dislikes confrontation, and why would she want run the risk of becoming known as "that bitch who bears grudges & snoops on people's emails"?
OP, just move on gracefully. You've seen now that this guy's a bit juvenile, but you can't ever fully immunise yourself against people gossiping & slandering you. The best you can do is try to behave as a decent & thoughtful human being who doesn't resort to petty disputes, so with any luck you'll be that girl who nobody wants to say a bad word against.
Unless they're braggardly juvenile douches, that is.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:19 PM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]
Um, in my books "taking the high road" does not include talking shit about people behind their backs. That's what this guy did.
There's no reason why the OP should stoop to that level, especially if she dislikes confrontation, and why would she want run the risk of becoming known as "that bitch who bears grudges & snoops on people's emails"?
OP, just move on gracefully. You've seen now that this guy's a bit juvenile, but you can't ever fully immunise yourself against people gossiping & slandering you. The best you can do is try to behave as a decent & thoughtful human being who doesn't resort to petty disputes, so with any luck you'll be that girl who nobody wants to say a bad word against.
Unless they're braggardly juvenile douches, that is.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:19 PM on September 25, 2008 [2 favorites]
Ick, I'm sorry-that's just triffling. What's ironic is that he is completely wrong: your repeated rebuffing shows that absolutely have both brains AND sense. You're probably hot too.
PS: I straw polled the following question with male friends: Imagine a woman so hot that you repeatedly try to exchange bodily fluids with her. Okay, now imagine that she was so boring that your boner literally dies.
My favorite responses:
"My boner has nothing to do with my brain. Ever. Or hers either"
"I'd hit a boring girl. I wouldn't call her afterwards, but I'd still hit it"
(bewildered look) "Does not compute"
Sure. That probably says a lot more about the friends I keep that your situation, but that's just something I'll deal with later.
posted by anitanita at 10:39 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
PS: I straw polled the following question with male friends: Imagine a woman so hot that you repeatedly try to exchange bodily fluids with her. Okay, now imagine that she was so boring that your boner literally dies.
My favorite responses:
"My boner has nothing to do with my brain. Ever. Or hers either"
"I'd hit a boring girl. I wouldn't call her afterwards, but I'd still hit it"
(bewildered look) "Does not compute"
Sure. That probably says a lot more about the friends I keep that your situation, but that's just something I'll deal with later.
posted by anitanita at 10:39 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm going to level that I *don't* think he left himself logged in. Forgetting to click logout is a common thing, especially when you never do it on your computer at home.
That said, this is definitely a "softening the blow, saving face" line. He probably actually thinks NONE of those things about you. In fact, he's probably still ridiculously into you and infatuated with you and frustrated that nothing will happen and so when his friend asks about it, he takes the face-saving approach and puts it on you instead.
That's a pretty ridiculous line to use, but it's definitely not "mean" in the traditional sense. It's absolutely dick of him to say (pun intended) but again, he probably NEVER meant for you to read that and just feels shitty that the girl of his dreams won't give in to him. It's hard knocks for a guy to give his all and still get shot down and a way of making yourself feel better about it is to, if not "demonize" you, then to at least save face by reducing, in his mind, your compatibility, or trying to convince himself you're not what he wanted anyway.
Don't take it personally. It's a deflection. In fact, while you're hurting and while this may need to end things, because that's not a healthy relationship for either party, it's not unheard of as a coping mechanism.
Unless you have some reason to think he *purposefully* left that for you, I think that it's entirely unfair to think that he'd be that cruel to you directly. He's licking his wounds and being a dick about it and trying to knock you off the pedestal, to himself and to his friends, as a way of making it more real. Trust me, you didn't kill his boner. And you could still have him if, for some reason, you wanted. And he probably doesn't think that stuff at ALL about you.
But you shouldn't be allowing someone's ridiculous hyperbole hurt your self esteem or self worth at all, even if it has shattered your trust in him. Evaluate how important, if at all, your friendship is to you, and then work to make the necessary changes, but don't unfairly think the worst case scenario of him being a COMPLETE asshat is necessarily valid. We all say things out of anger and frustration and it'd be no less fair than if you were to, say, vent to a therapist about him and he were to hear a recording of it.
posted by disillusioned at 10:55 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
That said, this is definitely a "softening the blow, saving face" line. He probably actually thinks NONE of those things about you. In fact, he's probably still ridiculously into you and infatuated with you and frustrated that nothing will happen and so when his friend asks about it, he takes the face-saving approach and puts it on you instead.
That's a pretty ridiculous line to use, but it's definitely not "mean" in the traditional sense. It's absolutely dick of him to say (pun intended) but again, he probably NEVER meant for you to read that and just feels shitty that the girl of his dreams won't give in to him. It's hard knocks for a guy to give his all and still get shot down and a way of making yourself feel better about it is to, if not "demonize" you, then to at least save face by reducing, in his mind, your compatibility, or trying to convince himself you're not what he wanted anyway.
Don't take it personally. It's a deflection. In fact, while you're hurting and while this may need to end things, because that's not a healthy relationship for either party, it's not unheard of as a coping mechanism.
Unless you have some reason to think he *purposefully* left that for you, I think that it's entirely unfair to think that he'd be that cruel to you directly. He's licking his wounds and being a dick about it and trying to knock you off the pedestal, to himself and to his friends, as a way of making it more real. Trust me, you didn't kill his boner. And you could still have him if, for some reason, you wanted. And he probably doesn't think that stuff at ALL about you.
But you shouldn't be allowing someone's ridiculous hyperbole hurt your self esteem or self worth at all, even if it has shattered your trust in him. Evaluate how important, if at all, your friendship is to you, and then work to make the necessary changes, but don't unfairly think the worst case scenario of him being a COMPLETE asshat is necessarily valid. We all say things out of anger and frustration and it'd be no less fair than if you were to, say, vent to a therapist about him and he were to hear a recording of it.
posted by disillusioned at 10:55 PM on September 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Let him know that everyone in your community knows about this, how you took the high road
Either someone's been switching road signs or the urban planning committee has started drinking again.
I don't think that it warrants escalation, as it seems like Standard Asshole Procedure*, and even if it did I would think it a bad idea. There's no reason you should embroil yourself in an ongoing drama, or in anyway prolong your being in any way linked to him. Start the phase-out process and have a little laugh to yourself about the wisdom of Aesop.
* I am an asshole; I am not your asshole. This does not constitute assholing advice, nor does it establish any asshole-normal person relationship either explicit or implied.
posted by Someone has just shot your horse! at 11:01 PM on September 25, 2008
Either someone's been switching road signs or the urban planning committee has started drinking again.
I don't think that it warrants escalation, as it seems like Standard Asshole Procedure*, and even if it did I would think it a bad idea. There's no reason you should embroil yourself in an ongoing drama, or in anyway prolong your being in any way linked to him. Start the phase-out process and have a little laugh to yourself about the wisdom of Aesop.
* I am an asshole; I am not your asshole. This does not constitute assholing advice, nor does it establish any asshole-normal person relationship either explicit or implied.
posted by Someone has just shot your horse! at 11:01 PM on September 25, 2008
she was so boring she made my boner die.
Well, so much for posting anonymously, given that the above isn't exactly a common phrase. Heh.
Having said that: my wife had a business relationship with someone, and this someone had been a friend of hers for quite some time prior.
Long story short, she had an opportunity to snoop on this friend/partner of hers due to a mistake on their part, and discovered the person had been saying awful stuff about her to other people and just in little personal note jottings on unrelated material, really mean and hurtful stuff, almost pathological.
It took a while for my wife to get over it, but she never mentioned it to this person, and didn't let it change the business relationship -- except that, since it was the kind of thing that would die on its own if not tended by both parties, she stopped tending. Now it's become a joke, this person and her behavior, and it ended up helping my wife become more thick-skinned to the pettiness of small tyrants. So definitely supporting your cut-bait-and-heal approach rather than a confrontation.
Plus, you might get the same opportunity for payback that my wife did; some time later, the other person had an opportunity to make something happen out of that dead business deal, but it required my wife to sign away her stake in it. If the other person had been a real friend, she would have done it (and waved goodbye to the related profits) without a moment's thought -- but instead she simply said no, you have to abide by the letter of the contract. So that was nice.
to my credit, I never liked this other person, and I tried to warn her, but what can you do? she listens to me more often on these things now...funny how, if you have the opportunity to cut off your relationship with a bad person before they do you damage, you end up not having nonsense like this cluttering up your life...
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 11:54 PM on September 25, 2008
Well, so much for posting anonymously, given that the above isn't exactly a common phrase. Heh.
Having said that: my wife had a business relationship with someone, and this someone had been a friend of hers for quite some time prior.
Long story short, she had an opportunity to snoop on this friend/partner of hers due to a mistake on their part, and discovered the person had been saying awful stuff about her to other people and just in little personal note jottings on unrelated material, really mean and hurtful stuff, almost pathological.
It took a while for my wife to get over it, but she never mentioned it to this person, and didn't let it change the business relationship -- except that, since it was the kind of thing that would die on its own if not tended by both parties, she stopped tending. Now it's become a joke, this person and her behavior, and it ended up helping my wife become more thick-skinned to the pettiness of small tyrants. So definitely supporting your cut-bait-and-heal approach rather than a confrontation.
Plus, you might get the same opportunity for payback that my wife did; some time later, the other person had an opportunity to make something happen out of that dead business deal, but it required my wife to sign away her stake in it. If the other person had been a real friend, she would have done it (and waved goodbye to the related profits) without a moment's thought -- but instead she simply said no, you have to abide by the letter of the contract. So that was nice.
to my credit, I never liked this other person, and I tried to warn her, but what can you do? she listens to me more often on these things now...funny how, if you have the opportunity to cut off your relationship with a bad person before they do you damage, you end up not having nonsense like this cluttering up your life...
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 11:54 PM on September 25, 2008
Consider this a blessing in disguise. Can you imagine going to bed with him NOT knowing what he was really thinking about you the whole time. Gosh golly, but I call this Providence looking out for ya gal. Now run like the wind and do something kind and nurturing and fun for yourself. Oh and delete your cache just because you never know what else is in there and you don't wanna either.
posted by watercarrier at 5:54 AM on September 26, 2008
posted by watercarrier at 5:54 AM on September 26, 2008
I believe everything happens for a reason. He may or may not have left the e-mail available for you to see but something in the universe felt you needed to see it. Accept your good fortune, stop overthinking it, and don't feel guilty.
I'm with the "take the high road and move on" crowd but, if he ever pressures you about why you've chilled on the "friendship", just look him directly in the eye and say that you're sorry but poor little brainless you wouldn't want risk making his delicate little boner die. Then walk away with absolutely no further discussion. He will get the message.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:19 AM on September 26, 2008
I'm with the "take the high road and move on" crowd but, if he ever pressures you about why you've chilled on the "friendship", just look him directly in the eye and say that you're sorry but poor little brainless you wouldn't want risk making his delicate little boner die. Then walk away with absolutely no further discussion. He will get the message.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:19 AM on September 26, 2008
I agree that you should walk away quietly. Just go.
However, having been through a similar experience myself, I can attest that calling people on their bullshit is one of life's most sublime pleasures, and you will be able to quietly chuckle yourself to sleep for the rest of your life by recalling that one beautiful moment that you did the Lord's Good Work.
posted by aliasless at 7:32 AM on September 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
However, having been through a similar experience myself, I can attest that calling people on their bullshit is one of life's most sublime pleasures, and you will be able to quietly chuckle yourself to sleep for the rest of your life by recalling that one beautiful moment that you did the Lord's Good Work.
posted by aliasless at 7:32 AM on September 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
nth-ing the hyperbole aspect. His comments are no different from the stereotypical "You can't fire me, I quit!"
He wants you. You don't want him. His ego is bruised by that, and rather than tell his friends "She's not that into me" he says "She can't reject me, I reject her! And she's dumb!".
Any confrontation or escalation is just going to make it worse. He's not going to come away from a confrontation thinking "Gosh, she's right. I am a dick." He's going to turn that right around and think/say "Hey, besides being stupid, she's a vindictive b___h!".
Going public with the character assassination plan will come down to "He said bad things about me to his friends" vs. "She spread my private email all over town". I'm not sure I'd want to test public opinion on that one, primarily because I actually was this guy in a similar situation in my life 20-odd years ago. I wanted someone, they didn't want me. I pursued her for a long time. Finally, I heard second-hand some remarks allegedly from her on the topic of this-is-why-I-won't-date-him; remarks I found lame at the time. I took it to the court of public opinion among my friends. I was unanimously [and accurately, I see now] considered the asshole for dragging the private business out into the light. I was hurt, and rather than just admit she wasn't that into me, I deflected. She never confronted me about it; just cut me out of her life. That hurt far more than any confrontation would have. If she had confronted me about it, I probably would have taken it as a sign that she secretly cared.
posted by chazlarson at 7:45 AM on September 26, 2008
He wants you. You don't want him. His ego is bruised by that, and rather than tell his friends "She's not that into me" he says "She can't reject me, I reject her! And she's dumb!".
Any confrontation or escalation is just going to make it worse. He's not going to come away from a confrontation thinking "Gosh, she's right. I am a dick." He's going to turn that right around and think/say "Hey, besides being stupid, she's a vindictive b___h!".
Going public with the character assassination plan will come down to "He said bad things about me to his friends" vs. "She spread my private email all over town". I'm not sure I'd want to test public opinion on that one, primarily because I actually was this guy in a similar situation in my life 20-odd years ago. I wanted someone, they didn't want me. I pursued her for a long time. Finally, I heard second-hand some remarks allegedly from her on the topic of this-is-why-I-won't-date-him; remarks I found lame at the time. I took it to the court of public opinion among my friends. I was unanimously [and accurately, I see now] considered the asshole for dragging the private business out into the light. I was hurt, and rather than just admit she wasn't that into me, I deflected. She never confronted me about it; just cut me out of her life. That hurt far more than any confrontation would have. If she had confronted me about it, I probably would have taken it as a sign that she secretly cared.
posted by chazlarson at 7:45 AM on September 26, 2008
Read this, including the comments. That's the sort of thing such guys say.
Forget about him, it's not worth your anger. Hopefully he'll grow out of being an idiot.
posted by clearlydemon at 8:26 AM on September 26, 2008
Forget about him, it's not worth your anger. Hopefully he'll grow out of being an idiot.
posted by clearlydemon at 8:26 AM on September 26, 2008
geoff.: "she was so boring she made my boner die." = I made out with her and I got rejected.
I wasn't going to comment because, as has been noted, matty answered this question the best it can be answered - you don't owe him anything, not even a second thought. However, I do want to say a few things on the matter of honor and respect purely because I sense, anonymous, that you're on the fence on the subject and because I sense that you're too decent a person to easily conclude that this fellow is as dishonorable as we're telling you he is. You mention that you know he'll 'try to get to the bottom of this.' I know why this worries you - because you hate confrontation, because he knows it, and because you both know that he's happy to threaten you with confrontation to get what he wants. I don't want him to manipulate you into doing something you'd rather not.
People seem to be confused about intentions. This certainly isn't a situation where he came to you and said, "look, I really like you, and I'd like to see more of you." It's not a situation where he called you a few times and said, "hey, we should go to dinner! We should go see a movie!" It's not a situation where he sat down with you and said, "look, we need to talk: I'm falling for you; how do you feel about me?"
This is much simpler. It's a situation where he wanted to have sex and took every opportunity to do so. He pushed you at every opportunity and he said whatever he felt he had to do get in your pants. You say that he told you repeatedly that he loved you? Bullshit. If he loved you (and believe me, I know) he'd be scared to death that you might not feel the same way about him, and he'd be angling hard to spend time with you, to see you as often as he could, to impress you, to convince you that he wanted to be with you for a long time and convince you to want that, too.
He wouldn't be trying desperately to screw you.
geoff.'s right - there are lots of ways to deal with rejection, and all of them say something about what kind of person you are and what you're after. 'I was going to make a move, but she's so boring she made my boner die' says 'I'm a colossal jerk, I will manipulate the feelings of others by declaring my love so that I can get laid, and I will blame women when they have the gall not to have sex with me.'
I'm a guy, and I hope to god that everybody I know is well aware that if any guy says such a childish, stupid, mind-numbingly low thing to me, they'll be well-deserving of the swift kick to the balls and derisive laugh that they'll promptly receive. Fucking hell. We may not have any conception of 'gentlemen' anymore, but we ought to be able at least to have the decency, honor, and respect not to act as though other people are obligated and bound to let us stick our penises in them whenever we want to.
And, yeah, rejection is the price we pay for this civilized aspect of society that allows all of us to expect that we can pick the people we have sex with. If some poor baby can't pay that price, maybe he's not fit to live in it.
You're not losing anything if you never talk to him again.
posted by koeselitz at 9:17 AM on September 26, 2008 [10 favorites]
I wasn't going to comment because, as has been noted, matty answered this question the best it can be answered - you don't owe him anything, not even a second thought. However, I do want to say a few things on the matter of honor and respect purely because I sense, anonymous, that you're on the fence on the subject and because I sense that you're too decent a person to easily conclude that this fellow is as dishonorable as we're telling you he is. You mention that you know he'll 'try to get to the bottom of this.' I know why this worries you - because you hate confrontation, because he knows it, and because you both know that he's happy to threaten you with confrontation to get what he wants. I don't want him to manipulate you into doing something you'd rather not.
People seem to be confused about intentions. This certainly isn't a situation where he came to you and said, "look, I really like you, and I'd like to see more of you." It's not a situation where he called you a few times and said, "hey, we should go to dinner! We should go see a movie!" It's not a situation where he sat down with you and said, "look, we need to talk: I'm falling for you; how do you feel about me?"
This is much simpler. It's a situation where he wanted to have sex and took every opportunity to do so. He pushed you at every opportunity and he said whatever he felt he had to do get in your pants. You say that he told you repeatedly that he loved you? Bullshit. If he loved you (and believe me, I know) he'd be scared to death that you might not feel the same way about him, and he'd be angling hard to spend time with you, to see you as often as he could, to impress you, to convince you that he wanted to be with you for a long time and convince you to want that, too.
He wouldn't be trying desperately to screw you.
geoff.'s right - there are lots of ways to deal with rejection, and all of them say something about what kind of person you are and what you're after. 'I was going to make a move, but she's so boring she made my boner die' says 'I'm a colossal jerk, I will manipulate the feelings of others by declaring my love so that I can get laid, and I will blame women when they have the gall not to have sex with me.'
I'm a guy, and I hope to god that everybody I know is well aware that if any guy says such a childish, stupid, mind-numbingly low thing to me, they'll be well-deserving of the swift kick to the balls and derisive laugh that they'll promptly receive. Fucking hell. We may not have any conception of 'gentlemen' anymore, but we ought to be able at least to have the decency, honor, and respect not to act as though other people are obligated and bound to let us stick our penises in them whenever we want to.
And, yeah, rejection is the price we pay for this civilized aspect of society that allows all of us to expect that we can pick the people we have sex with. If some poor baby can't pay that price, maybe he's not fit to live in it.
You're not losing anything if you never talk to him again.
posted by koeselitz at 9:17 AM on September 26, 2008 [10 favorites]
"If he loved you (and believe me, I know) he'd be scared to death that you might not feel the same way about him, and he'd be angling hard to spend time with you, to see you as often as he could, to impress you, to convince you that he wanted to be with you for a long time and convince you to want that, too."
That's some excellent insight from koeselitz. That little concept in and of itself would have saved me about a year of self-doubt, depression, and anxiety.
posted by matty at 10:10 AM on September 26, 2008
That's some excellent insight from koeselitz. That little concept in and of itself would have saved me about a year of self-doubt, depression, and anxiety.
posted by matty at 10:10 AM on September 26, 2008
'I'm a colossal jerk, I will manipulate the feelings of others by declaring my love so that I can get laid, and I will blame women when they have the gall not to have sex with me.'
BTW if I wasn't clear (I could not tell from reading your comments), I absolutely agree this guy is an asshole of the highest order. Anonymous has used good judgment thus far, and I'm sure will continue to use good judgment on giant assholes in the future.
posted by geoff. at 1:35 PM on September 26, 2008
BTW if I wasn't clear (I could not tell from reading your comments), I absolutely agree this guy is an asshole of the highest order. Anonymous has used good judgment thus far, and I'm sure will continue to use good judgment on giant assholes in the future.
posted by geoff. at 1:35 PM on September 26, 2008
One of my female acquaintances had the stupidity to say this about me, to my girlfriend: "why are you still dating that arrogant little shit?"
Yeah, as if my girlfriend would ever side with her and not relay this information to me.
I consider this to be one of the fineset examples of irony I have ever encoutered. In any case, I did not confront this person and am simply avoiding her now. No need to escalate. Just break away and get on with your life.
posted by BeaverTerror at 7:53 PM on September 28, 2008
Yeah, as if my girlfriend would ever side with her and not relay this information to me.
I consider this to be one of the fineset examples of irony I have ever encoutered. In any case, I did not confront this person and am simply avoiding her now. No need to escalate. Just break away and get on with your life.
posted by BeaverTerror at 7:53 PM on September 28, 2008
I was wondering how Mr. TSL (Too Stupid to Live) was doing in here so I came back to check. I read your question more carefully -- I see you are hurt, and this must be because you considered him a friend, even a lower order one. An acquaintance, I'd say, and one you no longer wish to see, ever. I hope you do realize, as others said, that his repulsive comment was made to make himself feel better about you rejecting him. You were just too nice. So, I suggest reading the really neat book "The Gift of Fear" by de Becker and at least keep yourself safe in future, because you didn't seem to understand this guy didn't respect you. If he'd been more physically forceful, this could have had a much worse conclusion for you. If you read the book, you'll probably feel better - relieved when you understand how nice people frequently respond to the behaviour of user, even inexpert ones like this guy. You have a life, and there are people you shouldn't let too far into it.
posted by Listener at 8:58 PM on September 28, 2008
posted by Listener at 8:58 PM on September 28, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
If he presses for reasons why you don't want to hang out, just say you don't really want to be friends with him. It may not come to that point but you may have to say that much to get him off your back.
posted by PFL at 5:47 PM on September 25, 2008