Is a refund enough?
September 4, 2008 4:01 PM Subscribe
Is a refund enough?
This is a relatively minor issue but I'm annoyed about it and lack perspective, so I'm turning to you.
Earlier this week I bought a cookie at the local pricy Whole Foods-type grocery store where I am a frequent customer. I was halfway through it when I bit into something hard and sharp. It was a large red thumbtack. It fucking looked like this. (I wasn't hurt, just surprised and spooked.)
I immediately returned to the store and asked for a manager, and because it was late it was just a stoned kid who took down my name and number and made some apology-type noises and probably ate the rest of the cookie once he went back to the office. My main concern was making sure it wasn't a deliberate tampering so that someone else didn't get hurt. (I know that makes me sound like a goober, but it's true.)
The next day a real manager called and said that they figured out what happened: the cookies were made under a bulletin board and one of the tacks must have fallen, etc. They pulled the rest of the batch and moved the prep area and everything is great now, and it's great that I'm ok, and we all find crazy things in food sometimes, huh? Ha ha ha. She offered me a refund for my cookie, and that was that.
I accepted it but the more I think about it the madder I get. They sold me a goddamned thumbtack cookie. Couldn't they have least had the decency to offer a gift certificate -- or hell, just a really contrite apology?
Should I take my cookie refund and go, or should I tell them that I think they are being pretty cavalier about retaining me as a customer? I'm cursing right now but I was calm and polite throughout. I've never been an aggressive or demanding customer, but I feel like I just got fucked in the baked goods aisle. With a giant thumbtack.
This is a relatively minor issue but I'm annoyed about it and lack perspective, so I'm turning to you.
Earlier this week I bought a cookie at the local pricy Whole Foods-type grocery store where I am a frequent customer. I was halfway through it when I bit into something hard and sharp. It was a large red thumbtack. It fucking looked like this. (I wasn't hurt, just surprised and spooked.)
I immediately returned to the store and asked for a manager, and because it was late it was just a stoned kid who took down my name and number and made some apology-type noises and probably ate the rest of the cookie once he went back to the office. My main concern was making sure it wasn't a deliberate tampering so that someone else didn't get hurt. (I know that makes me sound like a goober, but it's true.)
The next day a real manager called and said that they figured out what happened: the cookies were made under a bulletin board and one of the tacks must have fallen, etc. They pulled the rest of the batch and moved the prep area and everything is great now, and it's great that I'm ok, and we all find crazy things in food sometimes, huh? Ha ha ha. She offered me a refund for my cookie, and that was that.
I accepted it but the more I think about it the madder I get. They sold me a goddamned thumbtack cookie. Couldn't they have least had the decency to offer a gift certificate -- or hell, just a really contrite apology?
Should I take my cookie refund and go, or should I tell them that I think they are being pretty cavalier about retaining me as a customer? I'm cursing right now but I was calm and polite throughout. I've never been an aggressive or demanding customer, but I feel like I just got fucked in the baked goods aisle. With a giant thumbtack.
I've never been an aggressive or demanding customer, but I feel like I just got fucked in the baked goods aisle.
The net value of whatever compensation you gain, be it financial or emotional, will be greatly outweighed by the anger and energy you expend stewing about this. Accidents happen. You didn't get hurt, it sounds like nobody else is at risk from the particular problem you experienced, and the store is now aware of the problem - let it go.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 4:10 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
The net value of whatever compensation you gain, be it financial or emotional, will be greatly outweighed by the anger and energy you expend stewing about this. Accidents happen. You didn't get hurt, it sounds like nobody else is at risk from the particular problem you experienced, and the store is now aware of the problem - let it go.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 4:10 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
I once found a 3/4" piece of the end of my deli guy's finger in my stack of turkey slices. (I wondered why he had someone take over slicing midway through...) I was shocked but unharmed by that experience... I took the refund they offered and left it at that. Accidents happen.
I also (much more recently) found a clothespin in my package of Ramen noodles. That's what I get for eating ramen, I suppose. I didn't seek out a refund for my twenty cents...
posted by blaneyphoto at 4:17 PM on September 4, 2008
I also (much more recently) found a clothespin in my package of Ramen noodles. That's what I get for eating ramen, I suppose. I didn't seek out a refund for my twenty cents...
posted by blaneyphoto at 4:17 PM on September 4, 2008
It was an accident. You were not injured. They fixed the problem that caused the accident. You are clearly stressed, possibly from being frightened from playing "what if" with the situation that was presented to you. However, there isn't really a "what if" here. You noticed there was a thumbtack and you were okay. You did not choke. You did not break a tooth.
If you're still feeling unhappy about it, I'd write a note up the food chain at Whole Foods to explain maybe how you felt that they didn't take your concerns seriously or maybe didn't seem contrite enough. I wouldn't expect them to do anything about it, and really would you feel better if they sent you $10 to spend at Whole Foods?
I suspect that Whole Foods actually doesn't care much about retaining you as a customer and this interaction just drives home that point. That in and of itself is sort of too bad, but also true and you can move forward deciding what you want to do with that information.
posted by jessamyn at 4:17 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you're still feeling unhappy about it, I'd write a note up the food chain at Whole Foods to explain maybe how you felt that they didn't take your concerns seriously or maybe didn't seem contrite enough. I wouldn't expect them to do anything about it, and really would you feel better if they sent you $10 to spend at Whole Foods?
I suspect that Whole Foods actually doesn't care much about retaining you as a customer and this interaction just drives home that point. That in and of itself is sort of too bad, but also true and you can move forward deciding what you want to do with that information.
posted by jessamyn at 4:17 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
The word resentment comes from the Latin word "sentire" which means, "to feel", and when you put "re" in front of any word, it means "again", so the word resent means "to feel again". It includes people, institutions or principles with whom we were angry, with whom we were hurt or threatened or interfered with, with whom we felt had wronged us, with whom we stayed sore at, with whom we felt "burned up" toward, and with whom we held a grudge.
It is plain that a life which includes resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. The hours in which we allow futility and unhappiness in our lives are not worth while. Resentments waste our lives. Forgive and forget.
Praise and blame, gain and loss, pleasure and sorrow come and go like the wind. To be happy, rest like a giant tree in the midst of them all. -- Buddha
posted by netbros at 4:21 PM on September 4, 2008 [14 favorites]
It is plain that a life which includes resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. The hours in which we allow futility and unhappiness in our lives are not worth while. Resentments waste our lives. Forgive and forget.
Praise and blame, gain and loss, pleasure and sorrow come and go like the wind. To be happy, rest like a giant tree in the midst of them all. -- Buddha
posted by netbros at 4:21 PM on September 4, 2008 [14 favorites]
really? you weren't hurt, they didn't do it intentionally, it's a cookie. is spending all this time and energy stewing over it really worth it?
posted by violetk at 4:22 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by violetk at 4:22 PM on September 4, 2008
I once got a machine screw in my iced tea (the kind they make at a coffee shop, not a Snapple).
They were SO apologetic, they gave me a new one AND a refund AND some gift certificates.
If I were that manager I probably would have done something more like what the coffee place did for me. On the other hand, you were lucky you weren't hurt- and while they did something potentially harmful and definitely careless, no harm came of it. I'd be happy I didn't choke or whatever, and move on with my life.
You can always leave them a poor Yelp review. That will probably deter many people from buying prepared food there.
posted by tremspeed at 4:24 PM on September 4, 2008
They were SO apologetic, they gave me a new one AND a refund AND some gift certificates.
If I were that manager I probably would have done something more like what the coffee place did for me. On the other hand, you were lucky you weren't hurt- and while they did something potentially harmful and definitely careless, no harm came of it. I'd be happy I didn't choke or whatever, and move on with my life.
You can always leave them a poor Yelp review. That will probably deter many people from buying prepared food there.
posted by tremspeed at 4:24 PM on September 4, 2008
I got a staple in a Chinese dumpling once. I chalked it up to "shit happens", and finished the rest of the dumpling. I didn't request a refund or other compensation because... well... I wasn't hurt, and I don't think they did it on purpose, so why make some poor chef's life harder? I've eaten there hundreds of times since, and I've never had a repeat occurrence, so I pretty much just forgave and forgot.
Oh, and the rest of the dumpling was delicious.
posted by -1 at 4:33 PM on September 4, 2008
Oh, and the rest of the dumpling was delicious.
posted by -1 at 4:33 PM on September 4, 2008
Well.... I'm going to take a contrary stand here, and totally agree with you. No, it's not enough for them to basically say, "let's pretend this never happened." But it's not just about you, but for the safety of other customers.
If I were in your place, I don't know if I would go in demanding anything, but maybe a polite but firm letter/call/visit to the highest manager you can find, or the owner, is probably in order. Explain the situation, especially that you could have indeed been seriously hurt, and even swallowed the tack, necessitating an ER visit. Their insurance would then have been involved. I would then make 2 things clear in the letter: that the bulletin board must be moved to prevent it from happening again. I would suspect that such a set up may be in violation of health codes. I would also make it clear that you were indeed surprised that you were handled so cavalierly, and that "let's pretend this never happened" is a disappointing reaction for the offense. This was not like getting an accidental raisin in your peanut butter cookie. It's not about the cookie. It's about potential harm, and then the dismissive attitude.
I am not a complainer. It takes a lot to get me to take any action to complain. You are obviously upset about this, because you should be. That doesn't mean you make yourself sick with anger for a month, but it means you should indeed let them know how you feel about it.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 4:37 PM on September 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
If I were in your place, I don't know if I would go in demanding anything, but maybe a polite but firm letter/call/visit to the highest manager you can find, or the owner, is probably in order. Explain the situation, especially that you could have indeed been seriously hurt, and even swallowed the tack, necessitating an ER visit. Their insurance would then have been involved. I would then make 2 things clear in the letter: that the bulletin board must be moved to prevent it from happening again. I would suspect that such a set up may be in violation of health codes. I would also make it clear that you were indeed surprised that you were handled so cavalierly, and that "let's pretend this never happened" is a disappointing reaction for the offense. This was not like getting an accidental raisin in your peanut butter cookie. It's not about the cookie. It's about potential harm, and then the dismissive attitude.
I am not a complainer. It takes a lot to get me to take any action to complain. You are obviously upset about this, because you should be. That doesn't mean you make yourself sick with anger for a month, but it means you should indeed let them know how you feel about it.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 4:37 PM on September 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Take the refund and go.
Buy yourself a cookie from another bakery and comfort yourself with the knowledge that they changed their preparation area because of your complaint. Now someone's kid won't wolf down a tack because of them and end up in the ER with punctured intestines or something.
posted by CKmtl at 4:37 PM on September 4, 2008
Buy yourself a cookie from another bakery and comfort yourself with the knowledge that they changed their preparation area because of your complaint. Now someone's kid won't wolf down a tack because of them and end up in the ER with punctured intestines or something.
posted by CKmtl at 4:37 PM on September 4, 2008
+1 to all the above.
It was a cookie. It was a mistake. You were not harmed. They acknowledged the error, refunded your money and told you how they have changed protocol to prevent it from happening in the future. You not being an aggressive or demanding customer makes you a good, normal, to be expected customer, not a saint blessing them with your business.
Your question is 'Is a refund enough?" We can give you our opinions, but only you can answer the question.
posted by Science! at 4:40 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
It was a cookie. It was a mistake. You were not harmed. They acknowledged the error, refunded your money and told you how they have changed protocol to prevent it from happening in the future. You not being an aggressive or demanding customer makes you a good, normal, to be expected customer, not a saint blessing them with your business.
Your question is 'Is a refund enough?" We can give you our opinions, but only you can answer the question.
posted by Science! at 4:40 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Is a refund enough? It depends what you want to get from this experience.
Are you entitled to a refund? Yes, and that's what you got. You paid for a cookie, and it was a faulty cookie, so you were out one cookie. So they refunded your money. When they did that, they made you whole.
You also had a concern that your faulty cookie might be an indication of tampering, and you wanted to make sure other people weren't injured. Which is great. They found the source of the problem, and fixed it so it won't happen again. Awesome.
Are you entitled to compensation - over and above your refund - for pain and suffering? No, because there wasn't any pain or suffering. But like I said, it depends what you want: do you want to be merely fair, or do you want to get something for free? Because I'm sure if you are sufficiently aggressive about this, you can get something for free.
posted by hot soup girl at 4:48 PM on September 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
Are you entitled to a refund? Yes, and that's what you got. You paid for a cookie, and it was a faulty cookie, so you were out one cookie. So they refunded your money. When they did that, they made you whole.
You also had a concern that your faulty cookie might be an indication of tampering, and you wanted to make sure other people weren't injured. Which is great. They found the source of the problem, and fixed it so it won't happen again. Awesome.
Are you entitled to compensation - over and above your refund - for pain and suffering? No, because there wasn't any pain or suffering. But like I said, it depends what you want: do you want to be merely fair, or do you want to get something for free? Because I'm sure if you are sufficiently aggressive about this, you can get something for free.
posted by hot soup girl at 4:48 PM on September 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
Having the prep area under the bulletin board was stupid, but not malicious. You weren't hurt. And the prep area has been moved now, so it won't happen again.
How many times have you done something stupid that could have hurt someone? What compensation did you offer the people that you could have, but didn't, hurt?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:58 PM on September 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
How many times have you done something stupid that could have hurt someone? What compensation did you offer the people that you could have, but didn't, hurt?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:58 PM on September 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
They took you seriously, researched the issue, fixed the problem, and offered to make good on the property you were out. You weren't hurt so will have no further issues impacting your ability to live/earn.
I say take a few deep breaths, be thankful you helped them solve such an obvious flaw in workflow, and take your refund.
I'd also encourage you to keep doing business at the same place, because they handled this like professionals instead of weasels or scaredy-cats. Bringing a suit on these guys will just increase the number of people who feel like they need to lawyer up for anything under the sun instead of just solving problems.
posted by batmonkey at 5:04 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
I say take a few deep breaths, be thankful you helped them solve such an obvious flaw in workflow, and take your refund.
I'd also encourage you to keep doing business at the same place, because they handled this like professionals instead of weasels or scaredy-cats. Bringing a suit on these guys will just increase the number of people who feel like they need to lawyer up for anything under the sun instead of just solving problems.
posted by batmonkey at 5:04 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
post-edit: "be thankful you helped them solve such an obvious flaw in workflow" should be be thankful you helped them solve such an obvious flaw in workflow before anyone was injured
posted by batmonkey at 5:05 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by batmonkey at 5:05 PM on September 4, 2008
Wow, other people are pretty laid-back about this.
I would be a little less laid-back, myself. It's not worth stewing in resentment, but if it's still bothering you, it's worth writing a brief and politely worded letter to someone, maybe to the manager who contacted you the following day or maybe to someone a little farther up the chain of command, to restate your concerns.
If nothing else, writing the letter will help you discern more precisely what those concerns are, and whether it's worth actually sending the letter.
I can't speak for you, but for me, I suspect it would break down like this:
- If I realize that my primary concern is the night manager's apparent shrugging-off of a legitimate safety hazard, I'd send the letter.
- If I realize my primary concern is their apparent ambivalence about retaining a regular customer, I might send the letter.
- If I realize my primary concern is a desire for gift certificates or other compensation, I probably won't send the letter.
It's not as if you got no follow-up: the manager did call to tell you they'd found and corrected the source of the contamination, so they can be reasonably confident it won't happen again.
From my experience in the service industry, I agree offering some small compensation above a plain refund seems like a simple measure to win back the customer's good graces. But keep in mind that from the manager's perspective, it may be hard to know what to offer. It's a tricky proposition to say roughly, "Sorry we sold you a cookie with a tack in it! Would you like a big bag of cookies? No tacks in this batch! For realsies!"
posted by Elsa at 5:09 PM on September 4, 2008
I would be a little less laid-back, myself. It's not worth stewing in resentment, but if it's still bothering you, it's worth writing a brief and politely worded letter to someone, maybe to the manager who contacted you the following day or maybe to someone a little farther up the chain of command, to restate your concerns.
If nothing else, writing the letter will help you discern more precisely what those concerns are, and whether it's worth actually sending the letter.
I can't speak for you, but for me, I suspect it would break down like this:
- If I realize that my primary concern is the night manager's apparent shrugging-off of a legitimate safety hazard, I'd send the letter.
- If I realize my primary concern is their apparent ambivalence about retaining a regular customer, I might send the letter.
- If I realize my primary concern is a desire for gift certificates or other compensation, I probably won't send the letter.
It's not as if you got no follow-up: the manager did call to tell you they'd found and corrected the source of the contamination, so they can be reasonably confident it won't happen again.
From my experience in the service industry, I agree offering some small compensation above a plain refund seems like a simple measure to win back the customer's good graces. But keep in mind that from the manager's perspective, it may be hard to know what to offer. It's a tricky proposition to say roughly, "Sorry we sold you a cookie with a tack in it! Would you like a big bag of cookies? No tacks in this batch! For realsies!"
posted by Elsa at 5:09 PM on September 4, 2008
If I could say anything to calm you down, I would, because I know it sucks to be angry and I don't like seeing you that way. All I've got here is this logic:
Honestly, no one at Whole Foods at all intended for you to feel the way you do. No one there intended to have you harmed. It was a freak accident that the tack ended up in the cookie dough, something unforeseeable, and they've corrected the problem... If you do take any action to see this further, keep in mind that the people who will be in charge of responding to you are not personally responsible for the accident; they are merely representatives of Whole Foods as an entity, and they are most likely not being paid enough to justify having to think outside the box to remedy the situation.
posted by lizzicide at 5:16 PM on September 4, 2008
Honestly, no one at Whole Foods at all intended for you to feel the way you do. No one there intended to have you harmed. It was a freak accident that the tack ended up in the cookie dough, something unforeseeable, and they've corrected the problem... If you do take any action to see this further, keep in mind that the people who will be in charge of responding to you are not personally responsible for the accident; they are merely representatives of Whole Foods as an entity, and they are most likely not being paid enough to justify having to think outside the box to remedy the situation.
posted by lizzicide at 5:16 PM on September 4, 2008
Did you tell them that your "main concern was making sure it wasn't a deliberate tampering so that someone else didn't get hurt"? Because if so, they've addressed your main concern. They followed up promptly, explained that it was not deliberate tampering and described the actions they were planning to take to remedy the situation so that it couldn't happen again in the future.
If that wasn't actually your main concern, perhaps you should have said so instead of assuming that the night manager's weed gave him magic psychic powers. You can play the goober and say that all you want is to protect others and have world peace, but if what you really wanted was some free cheese, you need to ask for it. Or if that was too much, at least insinuated that you might be compensated for your terrible traumas instead of being the kind of nice, understanding customer that retail managers dream about encountering when shit goes wrong. Generally, they save the compensation for people who appear to feel they deserve it.
I get that you thought you were doing the right thing, and now you're feeling a little like a patsy, but what actually happened is that you did the right thing, and now you're contemplating how you can take advantage of them. Don't ruin your good deed. Let it go.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:19 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
If that wasn't actually your main concern, perhaps you should have said so instead of assuming that the night manager's weed gave him magic psychic powers. You can play the goober and say that all you want is to protect others and have world peace, but if what you really wanted was some free cheese, you need to ask for it. Or if that was too much, at least insinuated that you might be compensated for your terrible traumas instead of being the kind of nice, understanding customer that retail managers dream about encountering when shit goes wrong. Generally, they save the compensation for people who appear to feel they deserve it.
I get that you thought you were doing the right thing, and now you're feeling a little like a patsy, but what actually happened is that you did the right thing, and now you're contemplating how you can take advantage of them. Don't ruin your good deed. Let it go.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:19 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Not only that, but raging about it after the fact when you were polite and accepting at the time of the manager's apology... I mean, you didn't even give the representative a chance to respond the way you would have wanted, because you basically told him/her via body language and tone of voice that what they've given you is sufficient. If you had seemed dissatisfied at the time, I'm sure he or she would have immediately switched gears and done everything possible to make you feel better, but you inadvertently kept things from progressing to that point.
posted by lizzicide at 5:19 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by lizzicide at 5:19 PM on September 4, 2008
Let it go. Life is too short to get wound up over a cookie.
posted by pompomtom at 5:22 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by pompomtom at 5:22 PM on September 4, 2008
As the child of a long-time Whole Foods employee, I would like to point out that the OP did not say this was a Whole Foods store, just that it was a WF-TYPE store.
Also, if this were a Whole Foods, I think it's quite likely that they would do what they could to make you happy. My mother has been doing customer service at a WF for more years than I can count, and her store, anyway, REALLY cares about retaining their customers and prides itself on superlative customer service. The stories of WF going above and beyond to satisfy customers I've heard over the years have been very impressive.
That said, I can understand your frustration, but I think the best course is to forgive and forget. You don't want to be that jerk who asks for compensation for not being hurt by a tack, do you?
posted by n'muakolo at 7:03 PM on September 4, 2008
Also, if this were a Whole Foods, I think it's quite likely that they would do what they could to make you happy. My mother has been doing customer service at a WF for more years than I can count, and her store, anyway, REALLY cares about retaining their customers and prides itself on superlative customer service. The stories of WF going above and beyond to satisfy customers I've heard over the years have been very impressive.
That said, I can understand your frustration, but I think the best course is to forgive and forget. You don't want to be that jerk who asks for compensation for not being hurt by a tack, do you?
posted by n'muakolo at 7:03 PM on September 4, 2008
Customer service has been lacking for quite awhile in many different retail areas. Whole Foods is getting that way. You weren't hurt, someone else could have been. They changed the way they did things because of what happened.
I agree it would have been nice for them to do something for you. It would have been good customer service.
posted by 6:1 at 7:43 PM on September 4, 2008
I agree it would have been nice for them to do something for you. It would have been good customer service.
posted by 6:1 at 7:43 PM on September 4, 2008
I'd feel bad about Whole Foods taking the rap for the actions of a different place...if they didn't deserve it just as much (if not more).
posted by batmonkey at 7:59 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by batmonkey at 7:59 PM on September 4, 2008
Perhaps a more constructive approach would be to notify the local food hygiene inspector. Explain the situation, and make sure the inspector pays a visit to check compliance - having loose small sharps above a food prep area is a no-no, and who knows what other things will be discovered during the inspection?
While this won't give you a ton of satisfaction, it will ensure that no-one else will get a thumbtack in their cookie.
posted by scruss at 8:05 PM on September 4, 2008
While this won't give you a ton of satisfaction, it will ensure that no-one else will get a thumbtack in their cookie.
posted by scruss at 8:05 PM on September 4, 2008
It's pure chance that you didn't get stabbed in the roof of the mouth. "No harm no foul" is bullshit in this case. People that sell food have an obligation to not injure you with it.
scruss has a good suggestion, and it doesn't hurt to contact the Whole Foods people again to drive home the point that you could have been hurt at that that is serious shit.
Others have a good point about not being angry in a way that actually inconveniences you. Don't back down because you're afraid it might cost too much emotional energy, though. Just stay calm and remember that it's just another of the many missions you undertake in life, and a pretty light one at that.
posted by ignignokt at 9:04 PM on September 4, 2008
scruss has a good suggestion, and it doesn't hurt to contact the Whole Foods people again to drive home the point that you could have been hurt at that that is serious shit.
Others have a good point about not being angry in a way that actually inconveniences you. Don't back down because you're afraid it might cost too much emotional energy, though. Just stay calm and remember that it's just another of the many missions you undertake in life, and a pretty light one at that.
posted by ignignokt at 9:04 PM on September 4, 2008
They sold me a goddamned thumbtack cookie.
They sold you, inadvertently, a cookie which had a flaw.
You were not injured.
You were not harmed.
A mistake was made and they said "Sorry, of course we won't force you to pay for that!"
One could argue that as an expression of goodwill, maybe they could have offered something more, but one cannot argue that they owe you anything.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:29 PM on September 4, 2008
They sold you, inadvertently, a cookie which had a flaw.
You were not injured.
You were not harmed.
A mistake was made and they said "Sorry, of course we won't force you to pay for that!"
One could argue that as an expression of goodwill, maybe they could have offered something more, but one cannot argue that they owe you anything.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:29 PM on September 4, 2008
What the... Would people be this accepting of finding things is food purchased from McDonald's?
Don't go in expecting payment. But do go above heads expecting some a bit more concern. I agree with the minority that the store should be thanking God that you didn't actually punture anything.
Like ignignokt says, just go back and reiterate that you think they took it a bit too non-chalantly. Just explain that you're not looking for a payout/lawsuit, you just want your concerns managed. What else is going on behind the counters that they are risking your health with?
I too would have shrugged it off, personally, but I'm amazed that people seem to be dismissing your principles
posted by FuManchu at 10:02 PM on September 4, 2008
Don't go in expecting payment. But do go above heads expecting some a bit more concern. I agree with the minority that the store should be thanking God that you didn't actually punture anything.
Like ignignokt says, just go back and reiterate that you think they took it a bit too non-chalantly. Just explain that you're not looking for a payout/lawsuit, you just want your concerns managed. What else is going on behind the counters that they are risking your health with?
I too would have shrugged it off, personally, but I'm amazed that people seem to be dismissing your principles
posted by FuManchu at 10:02 PM on September 4, 2008
Geez . . . the Serbs killed my parents, put some holes in me, blew up my house, appropriated all the money that my folks had in the Yugoslavian national bank, starved me and caused me a whole lot more grief. And I didn't get even a few bites of a cookie for the trouble!
You have to take things in stride. An accident occurred and nothing bad happened. Consider yourself lucky . . . the world is a dangerous place, and there are millions who would gladly exchange the injustices they suffer for a cookie full of thumbtacks.
They apologized and gave you a new cookie. You should be cool about it, for the simple reason that in doing so you're not contributing to the hysteria and escalation of miniscule problems into huge battles. I've found that true forgiveness (that is, with no strings attached) has brought me a peace of mind and satisfaction that no financial compensation (like a gift certificate) could ever bring.
The fact that you can afford a pricey cookie at all puts you into a sort of human elite. I'd look at the errant thumbtack as the world's way of keeping it real for you.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 10:58 PM on September 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
You have to take things in stride. An accident occurred and nothing bad happened. Consider yourself lucky . . . the world is a dangerous place, and there are millions who would gladly exchange the injustices they suffer for a cookie full of thumbtacks.
They apologized and gave you a new cookie. You should be cool about it, for the simple reason that in doing so you're not contributing to the hysteria and escalation of miniscule problems into huge battles. I've found that true forgiveness (that is, with no strings attached) has brought me a peace of mind and satisfaction that no financial compensation (like a gift certificate) could ever bring.
The fact that you can afford a pricey cookie at all puts you into a sort of human elite. I'd look at the errant thumbtack as the world's way of keeping it real for you.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 10:58 PM on September 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
Could it be that you're really mad at yourself for being polite instead of being assertive enough to insist on some kind of greater compensation? Oh well, resolve that next time there's a situation, you'll politely request that they do a little more to make it up to you. If I had a dollar for everyone I've heard in this city fuming over bad customer service.. It's like, come on, you could be in Afghanistan or Iraq right now, not in Whole Foods eating a cookie. :)
posted by citron at 11:04 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by citron at 11:04 PM on September 4, 2008
In addition to either sublimating your frustration or pursuing further compensation it seems that a further option would be to wreak vengeance upon the Whole Foodies with some act of retribution.
Unfortunately most of the really satisfying mischief or mayhem you might cause is probably also unethical. But as they say you have to open a few cartons of soybean lecithin egg substitute to make an omelet.
posted by XMLicious at 11:25 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately most of the really satisfying mischief or mayhem you might cause is probably also unethical. But as they say you have to open a few cartons of soybean lecithin egg substitute to make an omelet.
posted by XMLicious at 11:25 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
No no no no no.
This was not a cookie with a "flaw".
If the advertised chocolate chips were accidentally raisins, that is a flaw. If the cookie was flavored with salt instead of sugar, that would be a flaw. A flaw like that would justify a replacement cookie.
You have had the experience of biting into a cookie with a pointy piece of metal in it. It's not the aftermath of a genocidal tyranny or uprising, no, but it does suck a little, as far as the expectancies of your daily life goes. (With all the questions that pepper AskMe, I doubt that we hold many posters to that ethical juxtaposition).
I, myself, am glad that I have never bitten into a thumbtack cookie. Once, a seagull pooped on my icecream while my head was turned, and the awful moments that followed have not curbed my ice cream consumption, but they did tinge future experiences, times where my mouth has cringed in horrified expectation of what could taint my taste buds after the crisp of the cold has melted.
If it were a mom & pop store or small scale business, although I would expect them to refund the money and then give you another cookie or two or three for free, I wouldn't hold it against them if they only refunded the cash.
If this upscale organically minded grocery store of yours is a small chain or larger, I would expect that they'd have had their shit together enough not to accidentally get a thumbtack in a baked good. The fact that a real manager called is good. The fact that she only offered you a refund on the cookie sucks (The employee working the night before should have refunded it then, in my opinion.).
I'm a pretty passive-aggressive person, so my thought is this: Have you already picked up the refund? If not, when you go in, do that awful little wheedling thing that people do when what they've been compensated with isn't enough. Hold the receipt in your hands, look balefully down at your shoes, revisit the experience in front of the manager. Say how glad you are that they cleared it up and moved the board. Say that you've never had anything like that happen, how it's kind of upsetting, because you always loved their cookies before. Ask if anyone else got a thumbtack cookie. No? Oh, you're glad you found it, then, and no one else will get poked, now. Be nice, but don't walk away. My thought is you'll get a small gift certificate out of it, five bucks, I dunno. It's called customer goodwill, and it's factored into the ins-and-outs of daily business, it's got to be. Even just a few more free cookies could extend that gesture on their behalf, really. The idea is for them to outweigh the bad cookie experience, which shouldn't take that much, but only refunding the money is merely mooting the financial aspect, not outweighing it.
But if they did give you the refund already? I dunno. If passive-aggressive floats your boat, you could write a letter to a muckity muck praising the prompt response (honestly, it really was good that a manager called the next day) and their action of moving the board, but then say how you were a little disappointed that your money wasn't refunded the night of the incident. Say you still like them, and you generally get good service, but maybe they should work on developing a policy for instances like this. If I was at this point in the scenario, the feelings expressed in a letter like that would be accurate, but also, I'd be surprised if a letter like that didn't lead to additional recompense.
But be happy with whatever recompense you do get, because really, truly, in the grand scheme of things it is not the biggest of deals. But the system of a well-established company should be smoother, and such things should not occur. If they do occur, there should be a system in place for dealing with it, and such system should put into motion just a little bit more than a simple refund.
posted by redsparkler at 12:08 AM on September 5, 2008 [2 favorites]
This was not a cookie with a "flaw".
If the advertised chocolate chips were accidentally raisins, that is a flaw. If the cookie was flavored with salt instead of sugar, that would be a flaw. A flaw like that would justify a replacement cookie.
You have had the experience of biting into a cookie with a pointy piece of metal in it. It's not the aftermath of a genocidal tyranny or uprising, no, but it does suck a little, as far as the expectancies of your daily life goes. (With all the questions that pepper AskMe, I doubt that we hold many posters to that ethical juxtaposition).
I, myself, am glad that I have never bitten into a thumbtack cookie. Once, a seagull pooped on my icecream while my head was turned, and the awful moments that followed have not curbed my ice cream consumption, but they did tinge future experiences, times where my mouth has cringed in horrified expectation of what could taint my taste buds after the crisp of the cold has melted.
If it were a mom & pop store or small scale business, although I would expect them to refund the money and then give you another cookie or two or three for free, I wouldn't hold it against them if they only refunded the cash.
If this upscale organically minded grocery store of yours is a small chain or larger, I would expect that they'd have had their shit together enough not to accidentally get a thumbtack in a baked good. The fact that a real manager called is good. The fact that she only offered you a refund on the cookie sucks (The employee working the night before should have refunded it then, in my opinion.).
I'm a pretty passive-aggressive person, so my thought is this: Have you already picked up the refund? If not, when you go in, do that awful little wheedling thing that people do when what they've been compensated with isn't enough. Hold the receipt in your hands, look balefully down at your shoes, revisit the experience in front of the manager. Say how glad you are that they cleared it up and moved the board. Say that you've never had anything like that happen, how it's kind of upsetting, because you always loved their cookies before. Ask if anyone else got a thumbtack cookie. No? Oh, you're glad you found it, then, and no one else will get poked, now. Be nice, but don't walk away. My thought is you'll get a small gift certificate out of it, five bucks, I dunno. It's called customer goodwill, and it's factored into the ins-and-outs of daily business, it's got to be. Even just a few more free cookies could extend that gesture on their behalf, really. The idea is for them to outweigh the bad cookie experience, which shouldn't take that much, but only refunding the money is merely mooting the financial aspect, not outweighing it.
But if they did give you the refund already? I dunno. If passive-aggressive floats your boat, you could write a letter to a muckity muck praising the prompt response (honestly, it really was good that a manager called the next day) and their action of moving the board, but then say how you were a little disappointed that your money wasn't refunded the night of the incident. Say you still like them, and you generally get good service, but maybe they should work on developing a policy for instances like this. If I was at this point in the scenario, the feelings expressed in a letter like that would be accurate, but also, I'd be surprised if a letter like that didn't lead to additional recompense.
But be happy with whatever recompense you do get, because really, truly, in the grand scheme of things it is not the biggest of deals. But the system of a well-established company should be smoother, and such things should not occur. If they do occur, there should be a system in place for dealing with it, and such system should put into motion just a little bit more than a simple refund.
posted by redsparkler at 12:08 AM on September 5, 2008 [2 favorites]
Vengeance wreaking upon the grocery store DOES NOT address your specific issue, it would merely inconvenience some poor sap who has no idea that your thumbtack cookie even exists.
posted by redsparkler at 12:10 AM on September 5, 2008
posted by redsparkler at 12:10 AM on September 5, 2008
That was actually a push pin, not a thumbtack. ;-)
Regardless, you were not harmed, steps were taken, and you got a refund. These days, an apology is an admission of fault; you shouldn't expect to get one.
It almost certainly was not sdeliverate sabotage. Errors happen. It is unreasonable to expect 100% quality, even in food products.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 2:05 AM on September 5, 2008
Regardless, you were not harmed, steps were taken, and you got a refund. These days, an apology is an admission of fault; you shouldn't expect to get one.
It almost certainly was not sdeliverate sabotage. Errors happen. It is unreasonable to expect 100% quality, even in food products.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 2:05 AM on September 5, 2008
Lots of people are telling you to just move on and accept that it was an accident. I agree.
I also think that writing that letter or making the call that Fuzzy Skinner talked about might help you to do that. So mine is a vote for writing a polite letter expressing your disappointment with the situation and how it was handled.
posted by dseaton at 2:32 AM on September 5, 2008
I also think that writing that letter or making the call that Fuzzy Skinner talked about might help you to do that. So mine is a vote for writing a polite letter expressing your disappointment with the situation and how it was handled.
posted by dseaton at 2:32 AM on September 5, 2008
I think the perfect answer to the feelings you describe will be to report the store to all the relevant authorities and describe what happened on relevant Internet boards.
You don't really need more cookies, a few bucks, or additional inconvenience. What you want is for the store to be punished a little more. So, punish them.
posted by JimN2TAW at 6:39 AM on September 5, 2008
You don't really need more cookies, a few bucks, or additional inconvenience. What you want is for the store to be punished a little more. So, punish them.
posted by JimN2TAW at 6:39 AM on September 5, 2008
Sometime it depends on you, sometimes it depends on the clerk.
I got the brush-off last spring: a pizza with what appeared to be either a filling (!!) or some other metal parts in it. The store blew me off: "You should have brought it back to the counter." It was take-out, and you close around the time I finish putting my kids to bed, so how would that have worked?Without even a refund, I simply told everyone about what happened to me and how I was treated. At least four other people have since stopped going there.
On the flip side, I went into the campus Starbucks store yesterday. The nice barista told me I could have the dregs of the old stuff or wait for a new cup, so I paid and then sat down. I wrote in my journal, I tied most of a nice three-lead/four-bight Turk's head knot, and then my friend showed up. When he got served I asked for my coffee, and the lady gave it to me, along with an apology and a coupon for a free drink. I told her it was OK, but I think that onkly made her want to do more. :7)
The OP's store failed to go above-and-beyond, instead they did the bare minimumin their mind. She's free to slag them off to everyone and never go back. That's the market at work. *shrug*
posted by wenestvedt at 7:06 AM on September 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
I got the brush-off last spring: a pizza with what appeared to be either a filling (!!) or some other metal parts in it. The store blew me off: "You should have brought it back to the counter." It was take-out, and you close around the time I finish putting my kids to bed, so how would that have worked?Without even a refund, I simply told everyone about what happened to me and how I was treated. At least four other people have since stopped going there.
On the flip side, I went into the campus Starbucks store yesterday. The nice barista told me I could have the dregs of the old stuff or wait for a new cup, so I paid and then sat down. I wrote in my journal, I tied most of a nice three-lead/four-bight Turk's head knot, and then my friend showed up. When he got served I asked for my coffee, and the lady gave it to me, along with an apology and a coupon for a free drink. I told her it was OK, but I think that onkly made her want to do more. :7)
The OP's store failed to go above-and-beyond, instead they did the bare minimumin their mind. She's free to slag them off to everyone and never go back. That's the market at work. *shrug*
posted by wenestvedt at 7:06 AM on September 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
I agree that you have been made whole for the very specific loss you suffered of having a cookie that was inedible due to contamination of inappropriate materials. Especially if you've already accepted the refund.
However, you have clearly not been made whole for the loss of confidence in this store, its management and the safety of its products. A bit more proactive customer service on their part, even if only in terms of an apologetic attitude would have gone a long way to changing this. Sadly, again, if you've already accepted the refund, it's probably too late to do anything about this.
Which leaves two solutions, to my mind: escalate this up the food chain within the store, if you dealt with Ted the night shift manager and now Jed the bakery manager, take it to Fred the general manager. Or go to the regional manager or corporate customer service if they're a chain like that. Make clear to them that you accepted a refund and you're not looking for a gift certificate or anything monetary, but more a sense that someone in the store was really taking the issue seriously, as their tone and actions really didn't convey that to you, and for all you know, they were lying about the bulletin board and the trashing of the batch and everything else.
If you've already dealt with the highest ranking customer facing person this store has to offer? Go to your local health department. Make a complaint. Ask them to do an inspection of the bakery to ensure that food prep is not near bulletin boards and that all safety rules are being followed. They'll probably find a few violations. There may be a fine involved. You will not know. But you may feel a sense of satisfaction that someone with authority has come in to let them know whether or not things are copasetic in their bakery kitchens.
posted by Dreama at 9:22 AM on September 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
However, you have clearly not been made whole for the loss of confidence in this store, its management and the safety of its products. A bit more proactive customer service on their part, even if only in terms of an apologetic attitude would have gone a long way to changing this. Sadly, again, if you've already accepted the refund, it's probably too late to do anything about this.
Which leaves two solutions, to my mind: escalate this up the food chain within the store, if you dealt with Ted the night shift manager and now Jed the bakery manager, take it to Fred the general manager. Or go to the regional manager or corporate customer service if they're a chain like that. Make clear to them that you accepted a refund and you're not looking for a gift certificate or anything monetary, but more a sense that someone in the store was really taking the issue seriously, as their tone and actions really didn't convey that to you, and for all you know, they were lying about the bulletin board and the trashing of the batch and everything else.
If you've already dealt with the highest ranking customer facing person this store has to offer? Go to your local health department. Make a complaint. Ask them to do an inspection of the bakery to ensure that food prep is not near bulletin boards and that all safety rules are being followed. They'll probably find a few violations. There may be a fine involved. You will not know. But you may feel a sense of satisfaction that someone with authority has come in to let them know whether or not things are copasetic in their bakery kitchens.
posted by Dreama at 9:22 AM on September 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm projecting my own feelings onto you, but I'm thinking that what is bugging you here is the lack of concern for what might have happened to you. That's what has upset you about the whole exchange.
I was working as a waitress in a coffee shop when a customer came up to the counter with a piece of glass that he'd found in his cappuccino. I was surprised, but I acted *shocked*. I reacted with concern for him, apologised, and said I'd get the manager (I was working in a non-US country where "speaking to the manager" is a last resort option. He came out and gave a personal apology and explanation (I think they figured out that a glass had broken on top of the coffee machine earlier in the day or something like that.) He may have given a gift certificate or something, but I don't remember. What mattered to the customer, and to us, was that we gave a show of concern for the customer's personal safety.
I think Jessamyn nails your situation with her comment, and I think that's also why you're upset. And you have every right to be! When I feel disregarded, which fortunately doesn't happen often, I write a letter. Be civil, reasonable, and explain clearly why you're upset and what you want them to do about it. For example, something along the lines of: I do not want or expect any sort of compensation for the situation - while food safety is extremely important, we're all human and mistakes will inevitably happen. However, I was upset at the somewhat blase response I received from the night manager and blah blah blah, and just wanted to bring it to your attention, etc etc.
Letters are great because nobody can interrupt you while you're saying your piece, and you have plenty of time to write a reasoned and sensible argument for your case. Having expressed my feelings, I always feel much better.
posted by different at 12:11 PM on September 5, 2008
I was working as a waitress in a coffee shop when a customer came up to the counter with a piece of glass that he'd found in his cappuccino. I was surprised, but I acted *shocked*. I reacted with concern for him, apologised, and said I'd get the manager (I was working in a non-US country where "speaking to the manager" is a last resort option. He came out and gave a personal apology and explanation (I think they figured out that a glass had broken on top of the coffee machine earlier in the day or something like that.) He may have given a gift certificate or something, but I don't remember. What mattered to the customer, and to us, was that we gave a show of concern for the customer's personal safety.
I think Jessamyn nails your situation with her comment, and I think that's also why you're upset. And you have every right to be! When I feel disregarded, which fortunately doesn't happen often, I write a letter. Be civil, reasonable, and explain clearly why you're upset and what you want them to do about it. For example, something along the lines of: I do not want or expect any sort of compensation for the situation - while food safety is extremely important, we're all human and mistakes will inevitably happen. However, I was upset at the somewhat blase response I received from the night manager and blah blah blah, and just wanted to bring it to your attention, etc etc.
Letters are great because nobody can interrupt you while you're saying your piece, and you have plenty of time to write a reasoned and sensible argument for your case. Having expressed my feelings, I always feel much better.
posted by different at 12:11 PM on September 5, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:07 PM on September 4, 2008 [5 favorites]