Out with the old, in with the new
September 3, 2008 6:42 AM Subscribe
Shortly after we moved to a new town, my partner fell into a deep depression. She shot me down every time I suggested that we go out and do something fun, or made amorous advances. That precipitated my own, milder depression. We're both better now, and love each other very much, but we're still in a rut, and I'm gun-shy. How can we get over this hump?
We go out together very occasionally, but only to a few tried-and-true places. We have sex more often, and we're usually receptive to the others' advances, but it's always the very mechanical, fast-track-to-orgasm sort. That sort of sex is awesome, and one of the benefits of long-term relationships, but there's more to life than a quick, reliable orgasm.
Even when we were first dating, my partner was a conservative creature of habit, but for a while, she was able to overcome her knee-jerk reaction of "No" to any new idea. I got her to get her to try new foods, listen to new music and explore parts of her sexuality that she was embarrassed about.
She tells me that now that she's feeling better, she's willing to do stuff together, and be more adventurous sexually, but my confidence is shot. I've been told "no" or "ick" or "weird" or "dumb" so many times that I just don't want to suggest new things unless I'm 100% sure that she'll love them. I don't feel comfortable asking her to do things that might or might not be awesome.
I used to be so creative and spontaneous and polymorphously perverse, and my joie de vivre was one of the things that made her fall in love with me. Now I feel crushed and broken, and she doesn't acknowledge her part in that. I want to be that person again, and she wants me to be that person again, too.
But I can't just magically forget the past few years. Please no DTMFAs. We love each other, and have loved each other for a long, long time. We just need to clear the cobwebs.
We go out together very occasionally, but only to a few tried-and-true places. We have sex more often, and we're usually receptive to the others' advances, but it's always the very mechanical, fast-track-to-orgasm sort. That sort of sex is awesome, and one of the benefits of long-term relationships, but there's more to life than a quick, reliable orgasm.
Even when we were first dating, my partner was a conservative creature of habit, but for a while, she was able to overcome her knee-jerk reaction of "No" to any new idea. I got her to get her to try new foods, listen to new music and explore parts of her sexuality that she was embarrassed about.
She tells me that now that she's feeling better, she's willing to do stuff together, and be more adventurous sexually, but my confidence is shot. I've been told "no" or "ick" or "weird" or "dumb" so many times that I just don't want to suggest new things unless I'm 100% sure that she'll love them. I don't feel comfortable asking her to do things that might or might not be awesome.
I used to be so creative and spontaneous and polymorphously perverse, and my joie de vivre was one of the things that made her fall in love with me. Now I feel crushed and broken, and she doesn't acknowledge her part in that. I want to be that person again, and she wants me to be that person again, too.
But I can't just magically forget the past few years. Please no DTMFAs. We love each other, and have loved each other for a long, long time. We just need to clear the cobwebs.
So -- you suggested things and she said "no" because she was bumming. And now that she's not bumming and wants to do stuff again, you're gun-shy.
....Have you considered having HER be the one to pick what to do for a while? This will take the "performance anxiety" off of you, because you'll KNOW she wants to do whatever because, well, it's her idea, and it will get you both out of the house into the flow of things.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:05 AM on September 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
....Have you considered having HER be the one to pick what to do for a while? This will take the "performance anxiety" off of you, because you'll KNOW she wants to do whatever because, well, it's her idea, and it will get you both out of the house into the flow of things.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:05 AM on September 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hmm. As I see it, Empress, OP's HER is already getting to be the one to pick all the stuff all the time each time she says 'ick', 'no', 'eew'. That behavior is dismissive, self-focused and spirit-crushing for the person on the whacking end of the stick (been there). OP's partner gets to take the lead by knocking OP's idea off, and that's hardly balanced or fair, if your idea of relationship is based on possibly different but mostly equal contributions. The partner's desire for OP to be joyous hardly counts if she herself is doing the crushing by dismissing OP's ideas. I want to win the lottery but I don't buy tickets, that sorta thing.
Your partner is being lazy within the context of your rutted relationship. Maybe she's overwhelmed by the move to the new town. Maybe she misses the old stuff and old places. Maybe change freaks her out. But until you talk about all that stuff together its not likely to change anytime soon. I like cupcake's activity draw idea - swell idea, esp. if you agree to both go all in.
More than anything, talk talk talk. Speak honestly, ask questions of one another, share fears, discuss your hurt feelings (without blame), plant a few seeds of what you'd like to see happen. But TALK. If she has really stalled out you could assertively express (demand in a non-bitchy way?) that you need things to click in a way they're not currently clicking and that maybe a couples counselor could help you get to each express your POV without getting told the ideas are dumb. You (and she) may unexpectedly discover that she'll be doing a lot of work to make the changes, especially if she's really into having her own way all the time. Don' t be a doormat, but it sounds like you're pretty go-with-the-flow-ish and forgiveness will go a long way during potentially awkward slipups. I believe change is possible.
Good luck.
posted by mcbeth at 7:39 AM on September 3, 2008
Your partner is being lazy within the context of your rutted relationship. Maybe she's overwhelmed by the move to the new town. Maybe she misses the old stuff and old places. Maybe change freaks her out. But until you talk about all that stuff together its not likely to change anytime soon. I like cupcake's activity draw idea - swell idea, esp. if you agree to both go all in.
More than anything, talk talk talk. Speak honestly, ask questions of one another, share fears, discuss your hurt feelings (without blame), plant a few seeds of what you'd like to see happen. But TALK. If she has really stalled out you could assertively express (demand in a non-bitchy way?) that you need things to click in a way they're not currently clicking and that maybe a couples counselor could help you get to each express your POV without getting told the ideas are dumb. You (and she) may unexpectedly discover that she'll be doing a lot of work to make the changes, especially if she's really into having her own way all the time. Don' t be a doormat, but it sounds like you're pretty go-with-the-flow-ish and forgiveness will go a long way during potentially awkward slipups. I believe change is possible.
Good luck.
posted by mcbeth at 7:39 AM on September 3, 2008
I used to be so creative and spontaneous and polymorphously perverse, and my joie de vivre was one of the things that made her fall in love with me. Now I feel crushed and broken, and she doesn't acknowledge her part in that. I want to be that person again, and she wants me to be that person again, too.
Have you thought about just forgiving her? Not everyone can just pick up and move their lives without upheaval - and you acknowledge that she was depressed. It's really not her responsibility to maintain your "joie de vivre." It sounds to me more like your pride was hurt, and you don't want to let it go.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:44 AM on September 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
Have you thought about just forgiving her? Not everyone can just pick up and move their lives without upheaval - and you acknowledge that she was depressed. It's really not her responsibility to maintain your "joie de vivre." It sounds to me more like your pride was hurt, and you don't want to let it go.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:44 AM on September 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
....Have you considered having HER be the one to pick what to do for a while?
I'm going to guess that he's a considerate enough guy that he's thought of this, and I'm going to guess that she doesn't come up with any suggestions (given her conservative nature), and he continually feels responsible for initiating everything. Of course, I may be projecting, because I am a lot like the girlfriend that anonymous describes.
A big part of my reluctance to try new things is that I have an anxiety disorder. I tend to live my life within prescribed boundaries because it makes me feel more secure. Your girlfriend was able to step outside those boundaries with you because you made her feel secure. So, one suggestion is for you to be more secure and confident. Don't take her rejection personally. When I say no, I am not rejecting him. I am rejecting the idea of stepping outside my boundaries because I am scared. Address her fears. Make her feel safe. It may take some Herculean effort on your part to project confidence when you feel so broken, but the alternative is a torturous descent into boredom and frustration. You want to be that person again, the spontaneous one filled with joie de vivre? Then act as if you were. Being who you are should never be dependent on another person.
posted by desjardins at 7:49 AM on September 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
I'm going to guess that he's a considerate enough guy that he's thought of this, and I'm going to guess that she doesn't come up with any suggestions (given her conservative nature), and he continually feels responsible for initiating everything. Of course, I may be projecting, because I am a lot like the girlfriend that anonymous describes.
A big part of my reluctance to try new things is that I have an anxiety disorder. I tend to live my life within prescribed boundaries because it makes me feel more secure. Your girlfriend was able to step outside those boundaries with you because you made her feel secure. So, one suggestion is for you to be more secure and confident. Don't take her rejection personally. When I say no, I am not rejecting him. I am rejecting the idea of stepping outside my boundaries because I am scared. Address her fears. Make her feel safe. It may take some Herculean effort on your part to project confidence when you feel so broken, but the alternative is a torturous descent into boredom and frustration. You want to be that person again, the spontaneous one filled with joie de vivre? Then act as if you were. Being who you are should never be dependent on another person.
posted by desjardins at 7:49 AM on September 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
I don't know how your friend situation is in this new town (and this would only work if you are turning down the occasional invitation now), but taking off from my own experience and what both WCityMike and fiercecupcake say, I'd suggest a compound of their suggestions: decide to accept every invitation you get from other people for a certain amount of time.
Someone from work asks you to join a few people for a drink? Call up your SO and go together. A friend mentions his son is having a paintball birthday party--would you like to come? Strap on some thick clothing and go for it. I've discovered some of my favorite (and least favorite) activities this way--and it builds a lot of "us" feelings as you both may feel pretty hesitant about certain activities or groups of people--but the trying of new things together and getting in the habit of saying "sure, I'll try that" should at least shake things up a bit.
posted by eralclare at 7:53 AM on September 3, 2008
Someone from work asks you to join a few people for a drink? Call up your SO and go together. A friend mentions his son is having a paintball birthday party--would you like to come? Strap on some thick clothing and go for it. I've discovered some of my favorite (and least favorite) activities this way--and it builds a lot of "us" feelings as you both may feel pretty hesitant about certain activities or groups of people--but the trying of new things together and getting in the habit of saying "sure, I'll try that" should at least shake things up a bit.
posted by eralclare at 7:53 AM on September 3, 2008
You've got two questions here, really.
1) How to get your joie de vivre back.
2) How to get back a willingness to share it with her.
#1 is much easier than #2. It sounds like you are (were) an emotionally buoyant person, so I'm sure you'll revive soon. It'll be easier if you think of this part as your own problem, maybe even one you have to solve away from her. Take a trip on your own. Go visit people you haven't seen in a long while. Learn surfing. Hang out with friends who share your ideas of fun.
#2 is harder. In part, if you have more joie (from #1), you'll just naturally share more of those fun ideas again. And if she's truly better, then you should be able to start noticing that she's not rejecting them anymore anymore. But if she's in some halfway state where she recognizes she shouldn't be rejecting them but still does sometimes ("She tells me that now...she's willing to do stuff together"), then I'd do whatever it takes to not let it get you down. That way, she can gradually get comfortable with opting in. Maybe you could state your ideas as something you're doing, does she want to join you? If she doesn't, it's her loss. (Not sure that'd work so well on the adventurous sex part of the question.) Over time, if none of this helps, you may find yourself wondering if this is the relationship you want, if you can't really have fun together.
posted by salvia at 8:19 AM on September 3, 2008
1) How to get your joie de vivre back.
2) How to get back a willingness to share it with her.
#1 is much easier than #2. It sounds like you are (were) an emotionally buoyant person, so I'm sure you'll revive soon. It'll be easier if you think of this part as your own problem, maybe even one you have to solve away from her. Take a trip on your own. Go visit people you haven't seen in a long while. Learn surfing. Hang out with friends who share your ideas of fun.
#2 is harder. In part, if you have more joie (from #1), you'll just naturally share more of those fun ideas again. And if she's truly better, then you should be able to start noticing that she's not rejecting them anymore anymore. But if she's in some halfway state where she recognizes she shouldn't be rejecting them but still does sometimes ("She tells me that now...she's willing to do stuff together"), then I'd do whatever it takes to not let it get you down. That way, she can gradually get comfortable with opting in. Maybe you could state your ideas as something you're doing, does she want to join you? If she doesn't, it's her loss. (Not sure that'd work so well on the adventurous sex part of the question.) Over time, if none of this helps, you may find yourself wondering if this is the relationship you want, if you can't really have fun together.
posted by salvia at 8:19 AM on September 3, 2008
There are plenty of things she can do (and if she's smart will realise what those things now are) but the biggest one is up to you. Do you want to forgive her?
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 9:45 AM on September 3, 2008
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 9:45 AM on September 3, 2008
Hmm. As I see it, Empress, OP's HER is already getting to be the one to pick all the stuff all the time each time she says 'ick', 'no', 'eew'. That behavior is dismissive, self-focused and spirit-crushing for the person on the whacking end of the stick (been there).
to an extent this is true, but there's a difference between just carrying a veto power and actually making a proposition for an activity. The way it sounds like, he's been suggesting "how about we go to the movies/A barn dance/the demolition derby/a petting zoo?" And she was just saying "nope/nuh-uh/ick/nada", but was not offering any ideas herself. What I am suggesting is that SHE be the one to come up with the ideas rather than just exercising a veto; that she be PRO-active rather than just RE-active.
But that's because I had the impression that he was previously being pro-active and she was just being reactive, but now he's not being proactive either and now NO one's suggesting anything. If I'm wrong on that, I shall stand corrected.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:26 AM on September 3, 2008
to an extent this is true, but there's a difference between just carrying a veto power and actually making a proposition for an activity. The way it sounds like, he's been suggesting "how about we go to the movies/A barn dance/the demolition derby/a petting zoo?" And she was just saying "nope/nuh-uh/ick/nada", but was not offering any ideas herself. What I am suggesting is that SHE be the one to come up with the ideas rather than just exercising a veto; that she be PRO-active rather than just RE-active.
But that's because I had the impression that he was previously being pro-active and she was just being reactive, but now he's not being proactive either and now NO one's suggesting anything. If I'm wrong on that, I shall stand corrected.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:26 AM on September 3, 2008
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What my partner and I did for awhile was to take suggestions on where to go and what to do, write them down on slips of paper, put them in a bag, and draw. What was on the paper was what we did. NO MATTER WHAT. No bugging out.
It's like anything else: doing it more often makes you want to do it more often. Get her in the habit of saying "yes" again by having her say "yes" before she knows what it is. She seems to have a good time once you drag her out, so this may work for y'all too.
posted by fiercecupcake at 6:55 AM on September 3, 2008 [3 favorites]