Guess Who's Not Coming to Dinner
August 27, 2008 8:30 PM Subscribe
A not uncommon sexual quandary, but with the typical gender roles reversed.
This fortyish M has just started a friends with benefits relationship with a fortyish F. We first met in university where we were acquaintances but our lives spun us off in two different directions. Now those orbits have brought us back together, in a memorable collision. We got together for drinks and the obligatory catch-up chat earlier this summer and had fun. A few weeks ago we started bedding down together and it was good. The only problem: I can't come.
After the first night with no closure for me, neither of us was all that worried about it: this had happened once or twice before with me (see below). Last weekend we spent 72 hours in bed together, and despite effort and creativity and innovations and great enjoyment all around, I still can't come.
Background: the most obvious culprit is internal to my body: I was diagnosed with MS fifteen years ago and while I have lost no coordination or strength, I have lost some feeling. I can still reach orgasm when flying solo, but what I could do as a ninety-second sprint at twenty is a ninety-minute marathon at forty. Still, it's not like I am totally benumbed -- I enjoy the sex quite a lot, but it's not getting me there.
Also, for better or worse, I am kind of a hopeless romantic. I decided long ago (pre-MS) after a couple of lackluster encounters that I was going to stop seizing every opportunity to get laid and hold out for women I felt a strong emotional connection with. The quantity of partners went down and the quality of the encounters went way up. Several years ago I became totally smitten with someone who (for reasons extraneous to our topic here) I couldn't be with. I didn't want anyone else, so I was celibate for well over five years (beating my old record by about four years). When I finally moved on, it was when another friend dragged me into bed for a two night stand last year. No orgasm that time either, but I counted this as due to my being rusty and the fact that I am kind of reticent the first time out with someone new. With couple of women pre-celibacy, it had been something that didn't happen until the second night. I was never goal-obsessed, so I was fine with that. Well... okay with that. So maybe it is still in the offing, it is just taking longer than before.
Something that may be directly connected to that is the fact that my new partner is the first woman I have been to bed with in twenty years whom I was not in love with at some point in my life. The aforementioned two-night stand was a major crush for me circa 1991. Last weekend we talked and were quite clear that this was not a romance, just fun. Maybe I am still looking for that connection?
Other possibilities: maybe my testosterone level has dropped? I am not hounding for women the way I once was, but I thought maybe that was a combination of adulthood and the five years when I slept alone. I am having a blood test next week.
Deeper background: my general health is fine. I have the paunch typical of a middle-aged man who works at a computer all day but my blood sugar and cholesterol levels and so forth are great. I avoid red meat, eat whole wheat bread, and take my vitamins.
My new partner is GGG, and she says she is not worried and that we will get there. She seems to appreciate that I am focused more on her than me. She is very generous: I appreciate her support and her efforts, but it is frustrating when the Point Of No Return always dances just slightly out of my grasp. Our weekend of debauchery was incredibly good, and I was able to get 95% of the way there several times. But that is as far as it goes.
So, what to do?
Pop culture and everything I have read in medical literature on the topic in the last few weeks suggests this is much more common in women than men. There seems to be no shortage of advice for women, ranging from the possibly relevant ("Just relax and don't worry about it and it will be easier.") to the dubiously useful ("Kegel exercises are the cure for what ails you.") to the anatomically inapplicable ("Make sure you partner stimulates your clitoris.") While I will happily take advice from people on both sides of the aisle, I am more interested in hearing from guys who have been here and found their way out, and women whose partners have been here, and what they did to conquer it.
I am not hung up on this overmuch, but I worry that my partner is going to feel inadequate or that she doesn't excite me. Still, the last time I had an orgasm with someone else in the room "Ground Zero" referred to Hiroshima or Trinity. I miss it, y'know?
Understanding that this could be a touchy topic to bandy about in public, feel free to drop a line to notquitemyself@live.com
This fortyish M has just started a friends with benefits relationship with a fortyish F. We first met in university where we were acquaintances but our lives spun us off in two different directions. Now those orbits have brought us back together, in a memorable collision. We got together for drinks and the obligatory catch-up chat earlier this summer and had fun. A few weeks ago we started bedding down together and it was good. The only problem: I can't come.
After the first night with no closure for me, neither of us was all that worried about it: this had happened once or twice before with me (see below). Last weekend we spent 72 hours in bed together, and despite effort and creativity and innovations and great enjoyment all around, I still can't come.
Background: the most obvious culprit is internal to my body: I was diagnosed with MS fifteen years ago and while I have lost no coordination or strength, I have lost some feeling. I can still reach orgasm when flying solo, but what I could do as a ninety-second sprint at twenty is a ninety-minute marathon at forty. Still, it's not like I am totally benumbed -- I enjoy the sex quite a lot, but it's not getting me there.
Also, for better or worse, I am kind of a hopeless romantic. I decided long ago (pre-MS) after a couple of lackluster encounters that I was going to stop seizing every opportunity to get laid and hold out for women I felt a strong emotional connection with. The quantity of partners went down and the quality of the encounters went way up. Several years ago I became totally smitten with someone who (for reasons extraneous to our topic here) I couldn't be with. I didn't want anyone else, so I was celibate for well over five years (beating my old record by about four years). When I finally moved on, it was when another friend dragged me into bed for a two night stand last year. No orgasm that time either, but I counted this as due to my being rusty and the fact that I am kind of reticent the first time out with someone new. With couple of women pre-celibacy, it had been something that didn't happen until the second night. I was never goal-obsessed, so I was fine with that. Well... okay with that. So maybe it is still in the offing, it is just taking longer than before.
Something that may be directly connected to that is the fact that my new partner is the first woman I have been to bed with in twenty years whom I was not in love with at some point in my life. The aforementioned two-night stand was a major crush for me circa 1991. Last weekend we talked and were quite clear that this was not a romance, just fun. Maybe I am still looking for that connection?
Other possibilities: maybe my testosterone level has dropped? I am not hounding for women the way I once was, but I thought maybe that was a combination of adulthood and the five years when I slept alone. I am having a blood test next week.
Deeper background: my general health is fine. I have the paunch typical of a middle-aged man who works at a computer all day but my blood sugar and cholesterol levels and so forth are great. I avoid red meat, eat whole wheat bread, and take my vitamins.
My new partner is GGG, and she says she is not worried and that we will get there. She seems to appreciate that I am focused more on her than me. She is very generous: I appreciate her support and her efforts, but it is frustrating when the Point Of No Return always dances just slightly out of my grasp. Our weekend of debauchery was incredibly good, and I was able to get 95% of the way there several times. But that is as far as it goes.
So, what to do?
Pop culture and everything I have read in medical literature on the topic in the last few weeks suggests this is much more common in women than men. There seems to be no shortage of advice for women, ranging from the possibly relevant ("Just relax and don't worry about it and it will be easier.") to the dubiously useful ("Kegel exercises are the cure for what ails you.") to the anatomically inapplicable ("Make sure you partner stimulates your clitoris.") While I will happily take advice from people on both sides of the aisle, I am more interested in hearing from guys who have been here and found their way out, and women whose partners have been here, and what they did to conquer it.
I am not hung up on this overmuch, but I worry that my partner is going to feel inadequate or that she doesn't excite me. Still, the last time I had an orgasm with someone else in the room "Ground Zero" referred to Hiroshima or Trinity. I miss it, y'know?
Understanding that this could be a touchy topic to bandy about in public, feel free to drop a line to notquitemyself@live.com
We can't do blood tests over the Internet. See your doctor.
Obviously, oral sex or mutual masturbation may be a reasonable way to go.
posted by JimN2TAW at 8:39 PM on August 27, 2008
Obviously, oral sex or mutual masturbation may be a reasonable way to go.
posted by JimN2TAW at 8:39 PM on August 27, 2008
If you've got MS, I'm assuming you have a neurologist... have you talked to him or her? It might be that a change in medication would help (if it's important enough for you to want to mess with a regime that's otherwise working) and at the very least your doctor will be aware of sexual side effects from medication and / or the disease and might have some helpful suggestions.
posted by moxiedoll at 8:52 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by moxiedoll at 8:52 PM on August 27, 2008
also, if you can get there on your own.... maybe she'd be into that?
posted by moxiedoll at 8:58 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by moxiedoll at 8:58 PM on August 27, 2008
Talk to a GP as well as a neurologist. A lot of men your age supplement their testosterone levels for various reasons - if in fact that is the hitch, or a hitch, you're in good company.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:22 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:22 PM on August 27, 2008
if you rule out anything medical, stop masturbating entirely until you can come in her presence.
posted by nadawi at 9:44 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by nadawi at 9:44 PM on August 27, 2008
From your post, you sound like someone who puts a lot of thought/analysis/worry into sex, relationships, and life in general. I (a 24 year old guy in excellent physical condition) have intermittent problems with ejaculating during sex that, as far as I can tell, correlate entirely with how much I'm pre-occupied with or majorly stressing out over something, usually something external to the bedroom. I also suspect that I'm less sensitive than average, or at least it has always taken me a long time to cum and I've only made it via oral sex twice, so that might be somewhat analogous to your sensitivity loss due to MS.
My girlfriend has learned to distract me until I forget about the rest of my life and just do her. I'm not sure how to describe the process, but it starts with her turning me on/teasing me hours in advance and leads into a lot of foreplay before sex. It also includes her reassuring me about the things she knows I'm worrying about. I don't know that any description of our method will help you, but I can at least give you one data point for the "purely psychological" bin.
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 11:29 PM on August 27, 2008
My girlfriend has learned to distract me until I forget about the rest of my life and just do her. I'm not sure how to describe the process, but it starts with her turning me on/teasing me hours in advance and leads into a lot of foreplay before sex. It also includes her reassuring me about the things she knows I'm worrying about. I don't know that any description of our method will help you, but I can at least give you one data point for the "purely psychological" bin.
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 11:29 PM on August 27, 2008
It's never Lupus, ChabonJabon (or should I say, Dr. House?)
To the OP: it's very possible that your partner has taken a while to start orgasming with a partner at some point in her past. She sounds pretty cool so she probably has some empathy for your situation. If it's bugging you, bring it up casual-like sometime when you guys are hanging out so that you know she isn't reading anything into whether or not you come. That part will not actually be too hard to resolve, I think.
Regarding why you're not coming: there are so many possiblilities. There are also so many things to try to address it. If you'd like to experiment, I heartily second the recommendation to see whether your partner would be OK with you masturbating with her present. This has worked for a number of women and men I know. Other things worth trying include: stop masturbating for a while to see if sheer horniness makes it easier for you to orgasm with her; try different ways of masturbating that are less physically stimulating in case you've been desensitizing yourself; look into toys like anal vibrators if such things help you along; exercise a bunch before you have sex (the lingering endorphin high might help you reach orgasm faster); experiment with positions, roleplaying, etc. You're also checking out the medical angle, which is good. There are many, many things to try and so much time to try them.
You asked whether it could be the lack of an intense emotional connection that is getting in your way. It's very possible. Give it some time. After the intense newness settles down a bit, you'll be in a better position to judge whether your libido is waiting for a partner or whether there's something else going on physically or psychologically.
posted by rhiannon at 12:09 AM on August 28, 2008
To the OP: it's very possible that your partner has taken a while to start orgasming with a partner at some point in her past. She sounds pretty cool so she probably has some empathy for your situation. If it's bugging you, bring it up casual-like sometime when you guys are hanging out so that you know she isn't reading anything into whether or not you come. That part will not actually be too hard to resolve, I think.
Regarding why you're not coming: there are so many possiblilities. There are also so many things to try to address it. If you'd like to experiment, I heartily second the recommendation to see whether your partner would be OK with you masturbating with her present. This has worked for a number of women and men I know. Other things worth trying include: stop masturbating for a while to see if sheer horniness makes it easier for you to orgasm with her; try different ways of masturbating that are less physically stimulating in case you've been desensitizing yourself; look into toys like anal vibrators if such things help you along; exercise a bunch before you have sex (the lingering endorphin high might help you reach orgasm faster); experiment with positions, roleplaying, etc. You're also checking out the medical angle, which is good. There are many, many things to try and so much time to try them.
You asked whether it could be the lack of an intense emotional connection that is getting in your way. It's very possible. Give it some time. After the intense newness settles down a bit, you'll be in a better position to judge whether your libido is waiting for a partner or whether there's something else going on physically or psychologically.
posted by rhiannon at 12:09 AM on August 28, 2008
This is a problem I have had in the past, so I relate.
OK, so everything works when you masturbate. Has it been while since you got laid last? If you usually masturbate vigorously or without lube, you may be "acclimatised" to the rougher stimulation. Try altering your masturbation technique with lube.
Other suggestion: you're a thinker. In classic Tao fashion, the orgasm you strive for is the one you can't have. Just don't worry about getting off - it doesn't worry her, so why should it worry you. Have fun and surprise yourself.
A little pot will help too.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:55 AM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
OK, so everything works when you masturbate. Has it been while since you got laid last? If you usually masturbate vigorously or without lube, you may be "acclimatised" to the rougher stimulation. Try altering your masturbation technique with lube.
Other suggestion: you're a thinker. In classic Tao fashion, the orgasm you strive for is the one you can't have. Just don't worry about getting off - it doesn't worry her, so why should it worry you. Have fun and surprise yourself.
A little pot will help too.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:55 AM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
During sexual intercourse, try thinking the thoughts you like to have while masturbating.
posted by londongeezer at 5:36 AM on August 28, 2008
posted by londongeezer at 5:36 AM on August 28, 2008
Doesn't red meat up the testosterone levels? Go out for a giant steak before and see how that works?
posted by gjc at 6:08 AM on August 28, 2008
posted by gjc at 6:08 AM on August 28, 2008
I worry that my partner is going to feel inadequate or that she doesn't excite me.
Unless she's particularly insecure, your reassurances should be enough. (If she is particularly insecure, maybe you don't want to be with her anyway.) If she's been with other men over 40, she's encountered this before. Most likely, she wants to make you happy, and if you can tell her honestly that whatever she did in bed for you that night made you happy (whether you came or not), then the orgasm is superfluous. Personally, most of my feelings of sexual adequacy come from my partner telling me how sexy I look, how much he desires me, how I'm so good at [activity x], etc., not how much he can spunk. As a woman who sometimes has trouble achieving orgasm, I know full well he's not doing anything wrong, so if he had a problem, I wouldn't assume it was me.
Sorry, I can't comment on the potential medical aspects.
posted by desjardins at 7:39 AM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
Unless she's particularly insecure, your reassurances should be enough. (If she is particularly insecure, maybe you don't want to be with her anyway.) If she's been with other men over 40, she's encountered this before. Most likely, she wants to make you happy, and if you can tell her honestly that whatever she did in bed for you that night made you happy (whether you came or not), then the orgasm is superfluous. Personally, most of my feelings of sexual adequacy come from my partner telling me how sexy I look, how much he desires me, how I'm so good at [activity x], etc., not how much he can spunk. As a woman who sometimes has trouble achieving orgasm, I know full well he's not doing anything wrong, so if he had a problem, I wouldn't assume it was me.
Sorry, I can't comment on the potential medical aspects.
posted by desjardins at 7:39 AM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is a big problem for men, too. Pop culture generally isn't helpful on this kind of thing, but let me give you some medical links to check out: NetDoctor.co.uk on Delayed Ejaculation; Andrology.com on Ejaculatory Disorders; and our friends at the Mayo Clinic.
If you want more medical literature, Google "delayed ejaculation," "retarded ejaculation," and "ejaculatory incompetence." (At least two of these sound like possible titles for a Will Ferrell/John C. Reilly movie.)
I'm bolding this because it's important (and I'm self-important): If she is fortyish, she has almost certainly encountered this with other partners. Every woman I know well enough to talk about sex with, and several of the men I know, has encountered this issue with at least one male partner.
And it usually takes more than a few weeks to work out.
Also, it's not going to be a big deal if she starts and you finish (especially if you talk with her about the medical standpoint). If, for instance, she does some oral for a while, and then cuddles you while you get yourself over home plate, it's not at all likely to make her feel weird or unappealing or whatever.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:08 AM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you want more medical literature, Google "delayed ejaculation," "retarded ejaculation," and "ejaculatory incompetence." (At least two of these sound like possible titles for a Will Ferrell/John C. Reilly movie.)
I'm bolding this because it's important (and I'm self-important): If she is fortyish, she has almost certainly encountered this with other partners. Every woman I know well enough to talk about sex with, and several of the men I know, has encountered this issue with at least one male partner.
And it usually takes more than a few weeks to work out.
Also, it's not going to be a big deal if she starts and you finish (especially if you talk with her about the medical standpoint). If, for instance, she does some oral for a while, and then cuddles you while you get yourself over home plate, it's not at all likely to make her feel weird or unappealing or whatever.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:08 AM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
You might try a prostate massager (Aneros is the most popular brand), a lot of the testimonials are about men in their latter years getting a huge boost in their sex lives because it helps improve their sexual fitness.
posted by robofunk at 9:58 AM on August 28, 2008
posted by robofunk at 9:58 AM on August 28, 2008
follow-up from the OP
To everyone who responded, my thanks.posted by jessamyn at 6:04 AM on August 29, 2008
A bit of clarification: I am on no meds for the MS (which is a fairly mild case of recurring/relapsing) so that's not it. I have in the past taken short courses of corticosteroids during acute attacks, but the last time was eight or nine years ago.
Oral sex, me taking care of the situation while she watches, vibrator tricks and mutual handwork have been checked off the list and revisited a couple of times each. As I mentioned, we spent three days solid naked together last week and you can accomplish a fair bit in that time.
And I did not masturbate for a week before our grand encounter and haven't done so in the several days since. We will next see each other in about ten days and I am holding off, so this is shaping up to the be the longest stretch of refraining since age 13.
I am pretty much vegetarian, so chowing down on a steak would be the bottom of any list, I'm afraid.
Still, there have been some excellent notions. Keep 'em coming! (rimshot)
Oral sex, me taking care of the situation while she watches, vibrator tricks and mutual handwork have been checked off the list and revisited a couple of times each
Patience is the key to dealing with this issue. "A couple of times each" isn't going to be enough for many people to get past this.
The more impatient you get, the more you make it more difficult for yourself to have an orgasm.
Keep doing stuff that feels good, even if it doesn't get you over the top. Orgasms are awesome, but the rest of sex is great, too.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:24 PM on August 29, 2008
Patience is the key to dealing with this issue. "A couple of times each" isn't going to be enough for many people to get past this.
The more impatient you get, the more you make it more difficult for yourself to have an orgasm.
Keep doing stuff that feels good, even if it doesn't get you over the top. Orgasms are awesome, but the rest of sex is great, too.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:24 PM on August 29, 2008
Yeah, typical male attitude is to be goal-orientated. Branch out.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:13 PM on August 29, 2008
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:13 PM on August 29, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by b33j at 8:37 PM on August 27, 2008