(Non-trophy) Hunting in Southern California?
August 24, 2008 2:15 PM Subscribe
I'm an avid primitive outdoorsman living in Temecula, California one hour north of San Diego, 45 minutes east of Oceanside, and one hour south of San Bernardino (including Crestline, Lake Arrowhead, Big Bear, Devore). I'm seeking any sort of hunting, fishing, or collecting. On land I plan to using primarily a bow and, when hunting on private property with permission, an atlatl or sling.
I'm a competent archer but have limited hunting experience. I'm up for anything - and I mean ANYTHING - that I can eat: pigs, goats, deer, hare, rabbit, crustaceans, mollusks, possums, raccoons, beaver, frogs, snakes, large insects, etc. What are my closest, best opportunities for game/fish/crustaceans? I'm SCUBA certified and willing to purchase dive equipment if opportunities for ocean collecting exist. Cost of hunts and charters, however, is a concern, so I'm looking for the best "bang for the buck" regarding dollars per pound of meat. I am wholly unconcerned with trophy opportunities.
I'm also looking for a hunting partner, if anyone is interested. You bring experience, I'll drive and carry.
I'm a competent archer but have limited hunting experience. I'm up for anything - and I mean ANYTHING - that I can eat: pigs, goats, deer, hare, rabbit, crustaceans, mollusks, possums, raccoons, beaver, frogs, snakes, large insects, etc. What are my closest, best opportunities for game/fish/crustaceans? I'm SCUBA certified and willing to purchase dive equipment if opportunities for ocean collecting exist. Cost of hunts and charters, however, is a concern, so I'm looking for the best "bang for the buck" regarding dollars per pound of meat. I am wholly unconcerned with trophy opportunities.
I'm also looking for a hunting partner, if anyone is interested. You bring experience, I'll drive and carry.
You may want to check up on your local laws for hunting with non-standard implements. Here is one page that gives a state-by-state list for atlatl hunting, for example, that suggests you options in California are limited. You will want to confirm your legality before getting caught and having an uncomfortable chat with a game warden in the middle of your hunt.
Every state is different, but generally you need a hunting license, species-specific tags, and to follow hunting seasons (which can be really complicated, shifting geographically and by species, as well as by hunting implement, age and disability status of hunter, land ownership, etc) for the common eating and trophy animals; for "varmint" animals an entirely different set of rules come into play, as is the case with harvesting from the ocean. The penalties for violating these rules can be really severe — you could be considered a poacher, or in violation of animal welfare laws, etc.
Is there a primitivists association of some sort in your state? That would be my first suggestion for resources for making sure you are legal, rather than trying to explain an atlatl over the phone to a random receptionist at the Wildlife office.
posted by Forktine at 4:02 PM on August 24, 2008
Every state is different, but generally you need a hunting license, species-specific tags, and to follow hunting seasons (which can be really complicated, shifting geographically and by species, as well as by hunting implement, age and disability status of hunter, land ownership, etc) for the common eating and trophy animals; for "varmint" animals an entirely different set of rules come into play, as is the case with harvesting from the ocean. The penalties for violating these rules can be really severe — you could be considered a poacher, or in violation of animal welfare laws, etc.
Is there a primitivists association of some sort in your state? That would be my first suggestion for resources for making sure you are legal, rather than trying to explain an atlatl over the phone to a random receptionist at the Wildlife office.
posted by Forktine at 4:02 PM on August 24, 2008
I would recommend checking out wild pigs. They are almost universally considered an invasive species and as such the rules and regulations for hunting them are typically more lenient. I don't know how it is in California, but in some areas hunting clubs will let you hunt them for free because they are so destructive. I would spend some time reading your state's regulations to make sure you know what the rules are and if possible try and make contact with people that hunt your area. A gun store *might* be helpful in that regard.
posted by Horatius at 4:43 PM on August 24, 2008
posted by Horatius at 4:43 PM on August 24, 2008
The last wild pigs I heard of in California were on Catalina, but they've been eradicated since I last saw them, and you wouldn't be able to really hunt in Catalina anyway.
The one place I've seen hunters around at all is up in Laguna (the mountains, not the beach), where it seems like people bow hunt turkey. I've definitely seen turkey walking around up there. There might be opportunities for deer as well, but I don't know about non-bow methods. The Laguna area is in the Cleveland National Forest, so if there are areas of that forest near you, you might have some similar luck--maybe in the Agua Tibia mountains just south of you?
posted by LionIndex at 7:15 PM on August 24, 2008
The one place I've seen hunters around at all is up in Laguna (the mountains, not the beach), where it seems like people bow hunt turkey. I've definitely seen turkey walking around up there. There might be opportunities for deer as well, but I don't know about non-bow methods. The Laguna area is in the Cleveland National Forest, so if there are areas of that forest near you, you might have some similar luck--maybe in the Agua Tibia mountains just south of you?
posted by LionIndex at 7:15 PM on August 24, 2008
Response by poster: I was looking for recommendations on locations and species that produce the most meat for the least time and money.
Re: atlatl legality: on PRIVATE lands not bordering state property the law is all but unenforceable. Ethically, an atlatl produces similar energy, but more momentum, as an arrow, and so should actually result in more kills given an identical kill zone. I.e.- it won't deflect as easily as an arrow.
In the future I'll try to be clearer.
posted by bone.eater at 7:28 PM on August 24, 2008
Re: atlatl legality: on PRIVATE lands not bordering state property the law is all but unenforceable. Ethically, an atlatl produces similar energy, but more momentum, as an arrow, and so should actually result in more kills given an identical kill zone. I.e.- it won't deflect as easily as an arrow.
In the future I'll try to be clearer.
posted by bone.eater at 7:28 PM on August 24, 2008
Re: atlatl legality: on PRIVATE lands not bordering state property the law is all but unenforceable.
A lot of poachers are caught based on carcasses and lack of a legal weapon, not on the game warden watching them use the illegal weapon. They can pull you over to check your deer tag.
Ethically, an atlatl produces similar energy, but more momentum, as an arrow, and so should actually result in more kills given an identical kill zone.
I'm really hoping that, in your atlatl dart design, you've seen fit to include a modern broad cutting head. A sharpened, fire-hardened wood point is unacceptable. A flint-knapped head might be okay, assuming that you're being honest about how sharp it actually is.
Your prey has the right to a clean death.
posted by Netzapper at 8:26 PM on August 24, 2008
A lot of poachers are caught based on carcasses and lack of a legal weapon, not on the game warden watching them use the illegal weapon. They can pull you over to check your deer tag.
Ethically, an atlatl produces similar energy, but more momentum, as an arrow, and so should actually result in more kills given an identical kill zone.
I'm really hoping that, in your atlatl dart design, you've seen fit to include a modern broad cutting head. A sharpened, fire-hardened wood point is unacceptable. A flint-knapped head might be okay, assuming that you're being honest about how sharp it actually is.
Your prey has the right to a clean death.
posted by Netzapper at 8:26 PM on August 24, 2008
If you want to hunt on private land, you will need the explicit (written is best) permission of the landowner — that means knocking on doors, not asking here. Trespassing in order to hunt illegally is a big, big no-no in rural areas, and leads to bad feelings on the part of landowners and more land being posted no hunting. I don't know about California, but around here not many landowners would be ok with out-of-season, unlicensed hunting by someone they don't know.
What are the laws where you are for so-called nuisance species like possum, raccoon, prairie dogs, and coyote? Landowners are often happy to have someone help get rid of animals that eat crops or livestock, and in a lot of western states there is pretty much open season on varmints.
Overall, I think that you are skirting towards the wrong side of a set of ethical issues; there are legal paths to be able to hunt and fish — there's no need to search for ways to violate those restrictions, most of which are based on some pretty solid ethical foundations.
posted by Forktine at 8:46 PM on August 24, 2008
What are the laws where you are for so-called nuisance species like possum, raccoon, prairie dogs, and coyote? Landowners are often happy to have someone help get rid of animals that eat crops or livestock, and in a lot of western states there is pretty much open season on varmints.
Overall, I think that you are skirting towards the wrong side of a set of ethical issues; there are legal paths to be able to hunt and fish — there's no need to search for ways to violate those restrictions, most of which are based on some pretty solid ethical foundations.
posted by Forktine at 8:46 PM on August 24, 2008
Response by poster: "there's no need to search for ways to violate those restrictions, most of which are based on some pretty solid ethical foundations."
"Your prey has the right to a clean death."
Really? Snares are clean? The quarter-plus-mile recovery distances of arrow felled big game are "clean"? You're confusing the law with your opinions. BTW, I'm using steel broadheads on bonded composite shafts. However, flintknapped heads are considerably sharper than steel blades, but they can crack or shatter.
There's nothing less ethical about a spear kill, and as my equipment actually breaks down into normal arrows, I need but carry a bow with me. I never said anything about poaching or trespass, and I fully understand the lottery system and private property. I said I was going to bowhunt, etc. as well. Oddly, no one seems to mind the sling, which brutally crushes the animal with a rock. This isn't an atlatl thread - forget I even mentioned it. I'm asking about STRATEGIES TO MAXIMIZE FOOD INTAKE AND MINIMIZE RESOURCE EXPENDITURE.
Any chance someone actually has an answer to the posted question, and not a lecture on their personal moral beliefs or general hunting principles?
posted by bone.eater at 9:16 PM on August 24, 2008
"Your prey has the right to a clean death."
Really? Snares are clean? The quarter-plus-mile recovery distances of arrow felled big game are "clean"? You're confusing the law with your opinions. BTW, I'm using steel broadheads on bonded composite shafts. However, flintknapped heads are considerably sharper than steel blades, but they can crack or shatter.
There's nothing less ethical about a spear kill, and as my equipment actually breaks down into normal arrows, I need but carry a bow with me. I never said anything about poaching or trespass, and I fully understand the lottery system and private property. I said I was going to bowhunt, etc. as well. Oddly, no one seems to mind the sling, which brutally crushes the animal with a rock. This isn't an atlatl thread - forget I even mentioned it. I'm asking about STRATEGIES TO MAXIMIZE FOOD INTAKE AND MINIMIZE RESOURCE EXPENDITURE.
Any chance someone actually has an answer to the posted question, and not a lecture on their personal moral beliefs or general hunting principles?
posted by bone.eater at 9:16 PM on August 24, 2008
You should read up on ethnography of California aboriginal people, if you haven't already. Surely their culture and environment has changed recently and through time, but as a general guide to what is and isnt edible, how to catch and harvest, process etc, it must be useful. I imagine you already know about the various magazines and books devoted to so-called "primitive skills"?
This map gives territories and names of the San Diego area.
There are a number of full-text ethnographies out there on the web which will each contain a section on subsistence - both animal and plant. Some resources:
U of C publications in Anthropology
California Indian Cuisine
Handbook of Indians of California (classic, cheap)
Ethnography of the Cahuilla (full text)
Kumeyaay - 10,000 years in San Diego County
Ethnography of Joshua Tree
Ethnobotany of California Indians
Luiseno Ethnobotany
posted by Rumple at 9:43 PM on August 24, 2008
This map gives territories and names of the San Diego area.
There are a number of full-text ethnographies out there on the web which will each contain a section on subsistence - both animal and plant. Some resources:
U of C publications in Anthropology
California Indian Cuisine
Handbook of Indians of California (classic, cheap)
Ethnography of the Cahuilla (full text)
Kumeyaay - 10,000 years in San Diego County
Ethnography of Joshua Tree
Ethnobotany of California Indians
Luiseno Ethnobotany
posted by Rumple at 9:43 PM on August 24, 2008
I'm asking about STRATEGIES TO MAXIMIZE FOOD INTAKE AND MINIMIZE RESOURCE EXPENDITURE.
Read up or google "Optimal Foraging Theory" - widespread in anthropology and archaeology (borrowed from biology) to discuss how to maximize calories in and minimize calories out. Intro.
posted by Rumple at 9:47 PM on August 24, 2008
Read up or google "Optimal Foraging Theory" - widespread in anthropology and archaeology (borrowed from biology) to discuss how to maximize calories in and minimize calories out. Intro.
posted by Rumple at 9:47 PM on August 24, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
cook your meat well please...
posted by punkbitch at 2:48 PM on August 24, 2008