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More info needed about the world of Thin-Film solar panels

thewalrus — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 23:45:13 -0800

Solar power question: What is the pricing of thin-film solar panels like per watt, compared to standard PV cells? I'm comparing 80W thin-film panels in the 6% efficiency range to 135W, 185W, 210W sized Kyocera panels. Also questions about sourcing from China and thin-film solar manufacturing. I am working on a spreadsheet that calculates the cost of a medium to large sized off grid solar power system.

This is normally based on a standard setup of 135 to 190 or 210W sized Kyocera panels on ground mounts, with MC4 cabling and connectors to junction boxes, with the rest of the setup pretty normal (a lot of 200aH batteries, fat wires, 3000W sine wave inverter, appropriately sized Morningstar charge controller, etc).

I have what I think are the best $ per watt prices for Kyocera or house brand panels from SunElec and a few other USA dealers of solar panels sold by the pallet load. This works out to $2.38 per watt+shipping for their house brand 210W panels or about $2.98 per watt for the more expensive panels, or slightly smaller sizes.

I have followed with interest the news over the past few years about startups like Nanosolar and First Solar claiming to approach the magical $1/watt figure with inexpensive albeit relatively low output thin film panels. If you google "China thin film solar" and look around on Globalsources you will also find several manufactures of thin film panels in China.

The typical large thin film panel appears to be about 1300 x 1100 x 50mm with an output of 70 to 95W, a bit less than half of the output from a similarly sized traditional PV cell. I don't care that the output is less - I care about the $/watt. If it's less, I'll go with thin film.

The problem, and finally the question, is that thin film pricing is more opaque in the marketplace that the highly competitive regular panel market. I can open the websites of eight bookmarked dealers and look at bulk prices for pallet loads of panels easily, but none of them sell thin film. I have seen a lot of PR about the output of many thin film factories going primarily to large (1 megawatt+) grid-feeding solar panel power plants, which is great... But does that mean the average person or small business putting together a more modest solar setup can't get the best pricing? Particularly I'm thinking of costs under $2/watt. Does anyone know what a 80W thin-film panel is supposed to cost, FOB China, or have links to dealers in the USA that sell them?

Reference links:

SunElec, dealer of regular panels

More on China thin-film solar manufacturing and sources

Globalsources.com product listing of thin-film panels made in China, 30W to 90W size range

Solar power, the Bay Area, and me

the cake is a pie — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:54:02 -0800

As we will probably end up buying a house in a sun-drenched corner of the San Francisco Bay Area, I'd like to learn more about solar panels. I'm looking at a traditional photovoltaic, augment-the-grid setup, but feel free to be creative in your recommendations.

What are good solar panel brands? what are brands that I should avoid?

Any particularly good or bad experiences with installers?

Where are the sweet spots in the 3-D graph of wattage / area / cost?

Are there any developments that could change the market significantly in the next few years?

Where can I learn more?

Can the sun power my building?

mkultra — Mon, 18 May 2009 11:49:09 -0800

Is solar power feasible yet for a multi-unit dwelling? I live in a 16-unit building in Brooklyn, 4 units per floor. I'm guessing that the square footage of the roof is in the ~2000 - ~2500 sqft. range.

Using current technology, is it possible to install enough solar panels to power the building? If not, is technology heading toward a place where this will become feasible in 5 years? 10?

If it is feasible, what's the back-of-the-envelope estimate on cost? Has anyone done any kind of analysis to determine what kind of cost/revenue structures something like this would entail?

Here comes the sun, so let's put it to work

azpenguin — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 08:45:17 -0800

Small, inexpensive solar projects for the yard? Got one done and I'm curious about what else I can do... I'd been wanting a small water feature in my yard for a while. With the layout of our place, though, power is a problem. Last week I got the idea to try solar, since if there's one thing we have plenty of here, it's sunshine. I took an unused solar light, a cheapo tabletop battery operated fountain, and some pots and put a little yard fountain together. And it actually works, which is a small miracle. We love it and now I'm wondering what else I could do out back. (A pic - http://sketchpenguin.com/photos/garden/finished.jpg - the solar light in back powers it. The light itself no longer runs, which is no biggie because you can't really see it at night anyway. During the day it just looks like an idle solar light. It's not running in this pic since the sun is almost down.)

I have 3 more unused solar lights. We got them on clearance for $2 each, so they're not a huge expense. In optimum sun, it generates 3.2 volts. The current reading was hard to figure out as the meter wasn't cooperating, but it looks to be 100 milliamps. For the fountain, it's built to run on two AA batteries, and the pump needs all 3 volts. Any shade and it shuts off. I had to remove the batteries from the solar light since there's not enough juice to charge them and run the pump. (The pump runs about seven hours a day, which will increase as summer comes along.) Given this info, any ideas for fun outdoor projects that can run on this kind of power? And can I get more juice if I wire the solar panels together? Thanks!

My tennants will be Gila Monsters

soy_renfield — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:06:31 -0800

Is it financially feasible to set up my own solar farm? I was driving through the Arizona desert last week, and it occurred to me that one could buy what is probably very cheap land, with what is probably very low property taxes. I am interested in setting up a plot of land with a solar panel array and selling the energy back to the power company. This would work just like setting up panels on your house, but with no house.

In my mind, in order for this to produce profit, the money brought in from power generation would have to exceed the property taxes, plus the upkeep of the panels.

How do I go about figuring out if this would be financially solvent? Am I ignoring any other costs? Am I overestimating how much money I will be paid for the power? Would the solar installation tax incentives that apply to homeowners apply to this enterprise? Are there any conditions in the desert that damage solar panels, or make them inefficient? I have noticed that very few people out there use solar energy.

Effective/interesting domestic uses of solar power?

vizsla — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:51:17 -0800

What domestic devices can be operated effectively on solar power these days? Know any interesting alternative uses? Wide open question.

Screen-printed solar panels?

loquacious — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:52:14 -0800

Solar photovoltaic fabric. I'm trying to find or recall about a particular type of technology that I half-remember, as well as find out more about the current state of the art for flexible and/or fabric and/or imprinted solar panels. In particular, I'm trying to find/recall information about a technology that involved screen printing glass/silicon beads on fabric, with screen printed circuit traces. The fabric could be cut with shears and hooked up to any of the given traces to start generating power.

It was a fairly crude but ingenious and innovative approach to the flexible solar panel idea. I believe the fabric was blue, like polycrystalline solar cells. Part of the charm to this approach was that it was relatively easy to do and make with off the shelf technology, rather than growing expensive monocrystalline ingots or other traditional polycrystalline on substrate methods that involved greater startup costs and less forgiving tolerances.

Outside of that: What is the current state of the art? What is currently available off the shelf?

Hydroponic and/or solar-powered container gardening?

allterrainbrain — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:26:04 -0800

Solar-powered and/or hydroponic apartment gardening: have you done it or something like it? Do you like or dislike any commercial solar kits or hydroponics kits, or suppliers of seeds & equipment for container gardening? I'm good with plants, but I haven't gardened with a focus on producing food since I was a kid. I've started doing research on container gardening, minimal solar systems, and hydroponics -- both on mefi & elsewhere. I'm looking to set up a system that will pay for itself within a couple of years (cost of all the gear vs. what I'd pay for the amount of organic produce it produces), so we're probably talking under $1000.

So this question is about putting those three elements together with budget as a big factor, and about specific crops to try. I'm thinking cherry tomatoes, strawberries, basil, mint -- generally, any stuff I like that's both expensive to buy organic and decently efficient to grow in a container.

Have you done this or anything like it?? What were your successes & failures? Do you recommend any particular suppliers of hydroponic kits, solar kits, or seeds?

For reference: I'm in NYC, facing south-by-southwest with sun all day; I pay for my own electricity; and I have only a fire escape (no balcony), so I can only put very minimal amounts of stuff outside -- we're talking shallow windowboxes plus hydroponic containers just inside the windows with additional (artificial) lighting. Thanks for all thoughts!

The path to solar-powered enlightenment

bjork24 — Sat, 02 Dec 2006 18:51:40 -0800

Electronics have always interested me (see, see, see), especially solar power. In hopes of learning as much about it as I can, I'll be taking a few select Electronics courses at my local technical college next semester (and beyond). My question is which courses should I take to reach my goal the quickest. I'll be taking the classes as a non-degree seeking student, so I only want to take classes that might help me learn more about, or be applicable to the field of solar electronics. The list of available courses are:

+ Circuit Analysis I
+ Circuit Analysis II
+ Linear Electronics
+ Digital Electronics
+ Computer Hardware
+ Telecommunications Fundamentals
+ Operating Systems Technology
+ Computer Interfacing
+ Microcomputer Applications
+ BEAM Robotics
+ Programmable Control
+ PLC Systems
+ Automated Systems/Robotics

Full course descriptions here (pdf, sorry). I know the first two are no-brainers, as they're prerequisites for pretty much every other course, but what others would be helpful on my quest of being able to understand, design, and start building my own solar-powered gadgets?

Could a giant radiometer generate electricity?

spilon — Sun, 18 Dec 2005 10:10:28 -0800

PhysicsFilter: Is there any reason why a giant radiometer couldn't be used as a way to generate electricity?

Here comes the sun: tell me about solar electricity

bjork24 — Fri, 22 Jul 2005 06:24:44 -0800

SolarPowerFilter: My wife and I love the idea of solar power and would love to compliment our current electrical consumption with some tasty renewable energy, but where do we start? For instance, where would one go to buy equipment for a solar panel array? Would the installation be a DIY project, or do we need an expert? How can we incorporate it into our old school 200 amp city-provided electrical service? I've heard talk about government incentives, but how do you find out about those, if any are applicable?

I know that's a lot of questions, but since they're all on the same subject hopefully they won't be too difficult to answer. Thanks!