Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with relationships and men

Should women expect men to cheat on them?

starpoint — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:01:32 -0800

I'm 27 and single. I've never had a serious boyfriend. Just throwing that out there. My brother is 24. Our 1st cousins are visiting for Christmas. One of them is male and 19, the other is female and 16. Tonight we somehow got into a huge discussion about relationships. Basically my brother and cousin (the 19-year-old) were making the following points: 1. Guys NEED to have sex with multiple women (my brother equated it with the desire to pee).

2. Just because a guy has sex with other women outside a relationship or marriage, it doesn't mean he loves his girlfriend (or wife) any less.

3. Men are living against their biological nature in Western Society. The natural order is for men to sleep with as many women as possible to spread his seed, not to stick with just one woman his whole life.

4. Continuing with Point #3, in many non-Western societies, men have multiple wives and those women don't have a problem with it; and are happy living in a harem where they are taken care of. Western women have been programmed to believe that a man will only stay with them.

5. The natural order of women is that women don't care if men sleep with other women. If they do care, then it's because the women have been programmed to think so.

6. Men are made better when they have multiple partners. E.g., they have to stay "oiled" or they become less desirable in general.

7. EVERY man will cheat on his wife or girlfriend at some point. Or if he doesn't, he will want to.

8. It's NOT OK for a woman to sleep with another man because biologically her husband or boyfriend sees her as his property and doesn't want to lose an opportunity to spread his seed (even if he has 30 other women).

9. The emotional connection women have toward men during a relationship (and men toward women) is just a temporary infatuation thing and is designed for men to stick around long enough to protect the woman while she's pregnant. Then the man is free to move on to someone else because a pregnant woman can't give him the sex he needs.

------
Of these points I do agree with the biological aspects -- women are choosier because they can only produce so many offspring; and so men need to be ready at all times so that there are "seeds" around when a woman is ready to have a baby. Nothing new there.

Otherwise I'm not sure how much I agree with many of these points.

What bothered me is the sheer arrogance of the way in which my brother and cousin presented their arguments -- as though everything men want is rational and biological, and what women want is "temporary" or the result of "programming." It's fine for a man to sleep around but not for a woman to do the same? My cousin also said that I will never meet a man that will not cheat on me. Gee, thanks. I pointed out some friends of mine who are happily married, and they just brushed those away saying that those guys are either nerdy "Beta-men" or that they could be cheating, too.

I don't know what to think. Maybe I'm living in a fantasy world. Maybe this is a reality check. There is some element of truth in what they said, but it bothers me nonetheless. I am hoping to meet a guy who is the ying to my yang and we support each other and are faithful to one another. I would not want him to sleep with other women, and I wouldn't sleep with other men. Of course we may find other people attractive, but is it so much to ask for a lifetime commitment to one person? Should I expect him to cheat behind my back? Is that just "the way it is"? My brother, cousins and I couldn't reach a compromise except, "ask nothing, tell nothing."

My brother said he's talked to many men -- professors, pilots, business men, etc., who have all supposedly cheated on their wives. I'm not trying to portray my brother and cousin as bad people. They're not bad people, but they are both a bit arrogant. But at least they're honest (with me, anyway).

I couldn't think of any good counter-arguments during our discussion. I enjoy debate but I'm not good at it when it's sudden and I haven't had a chance to prepare. I understand that my brother is a guy and he has needs, but what about women's needs? Why are women's needs less important? I don't want to be wife #19. Is that so much to ask? Is it unrealistic? When I pursue relationships, should I expect the guy to cheat? Should I bring it up with him before we even start to go steady? What are ways a guy can handle his desire to be with multiple women in a long-term relationship?

But what's it there for? Do you actually sleep on it?

lunalaguna — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:37:30 -0800

Little known facts about men My boyfriend was shocked (shocked!) recently when I told him that many women's bathrooms have couches or chairs in them. I was surprised no one had ever told him this before, or that he'd never been in a women's bathroom. (I've had jobs where I've cleaned men's bathrooms, so that world is no secret to me.)

It got me wondering whether there are certain facts about men or common experiences they have that I'm totally unaware of as a woman. Guys, are there things you encounter pretty regularly that a women would know nothing about? Girls, have you ever learned something about men that's both common and surprising?

The universal mateship code

vizsla — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 03:49:28 -0800

Anyone who has been to Australia or talked to any Australian males (sometimes females) will know they frequently call people they have never met before or even people they're angry with: "mate". What other expressions of universal male bonding are used in other countries?

I just can't agree with you, lady, but I don't know why

saysthis — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:47:56 -0800

"Women are different than men. In a relationship, a man needs to be the one who takes care of a woman when she's angry, who tells her to calm down. A man needs to be more understanding than a woman, and a woman needs to be allowed to have her moods." Really? I'd like to call bullshit, but I don't quite know how. (Long explanation inside) This notion is fundamentally offensive to me because it seems to absolve one half of a relationship of their responsibility to control their temper. It isn't "fair".

Help me construct a rhetorically and logically sound feminist refutation of this statement that assumes the following two premises:
1) "Fairness" is a secondary value in a relationship.
2) Men and women are, indeed, different, and exceptional rules apply to both sexes.

I'm coming out of China, and two of the most common, fundamental assumptions about relationships are precisely what I've listed above. Fairness is not assumed to be an important value in a relationship, and women and men are both assumed to be given special leeway in certain aspects of relationships (ex.: women are allowed & expected to earn substantially less, men are expected/sometimes allowed to seek extramarital partners). I've never, not once, been able to argue around these two notions. Gender exceptionalism and comfort over fairness seem to be two of the most basic assumptions about relationships in this country, and attempts to refute them are turned down as "Western thinking".

I can accept these two premises as a foundation for a successful relationship on the following premise: both partners are extremely considerate of the other's feelings. I understand that relationships aren't always "fair". Sometimes people have a bad day and need a hug, sometimes people have a disease and require sacrifice. And I fully accept that men and women, while equal, are in some ways different, often for reasons that seem mysterious to me. Why in god's name do you buy so many clothes? Well, you do, and it's valid, k? Looking good is important to you, I accept that. Broadly speaking, there are differences, and they're part of what make humanity beautiful. I don't understand the primarily male pastimes of coin collecting or cigar smoking either, but hey, it variety is the spice of life, yeah?

But the above statement, that men are, blanket, required to be more considerate than women, seems to me a recipe for chaos and bitterness. But this is often refuted (again, this is almost universal, in media and in personal conversation) with the claim that asking for fairness is a kind of unworkable imposition. They have a few terms that they usually respond with: 疼爱，溺爱=painful love, smothering love. This seems to be the cultural ideal, and I find it hard to accept that love must be inherently painful for the man.

So my question, essentially, is, allowing for the notions that comfort and consideration take preference over fairness, and that the genders are different, how can I argue that harmful tempers and harsh words are conducive to a relationship filled with bitterness, rather than loving care? And I'd like to couch this in feminist terms, so that I myself don't go the way of taking a position that denies women equal rights or consideration. The last thing I want to do is say something like, "Well, if you think that, then you better not take a job or leave the house without my permission. You better stay home and cook my laundry."

Health Benefits of Sex?

taramosalata — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:39:24 -0800

Sex is often touted as beneficial for one's health. Is this supposed to be true for both men and women, and how much evidence is there for the claim (apart from calorie expenditure, which is still negligible compared to actual aerobic exercise)? And is it primarily the orgasm that's supposedly healthful, or even sex sans orgasm?

Long distance relationship - he's fantastic when we're together, but "off" when we're apart.. what's up?

freshsprout — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:27:27 -0800

4-month long distance "relationship" - he's fantastic when we're together, but "off" when we're apart.. what's up? First, thanks for reading - I've really enjoyed this forum and while I appreciate the honest (sometimes blunt) feedback, pls. be respectful when answering.

Anyway, I've been involved with a guy who lives 2 hrs. away. We first started out as dating, then went back to friends, and after some initial bumps in the road, we're dating again. It's been for a total about 4 months of "hanging out" - pretty much every wknd. Everything seems to be going well, as we just spent this past long wknd at his place - cooking, going out for a jog/golfing, watching movies, attended a pool match he was in, long political talks and intimate time together. (I did see him at work this past wk) He treats me out often (I do put in my effort to pay too), has driven out to see me, mutually agree to do things we both enjoy, etc. Our times together have always been great as he would text me how he enjoyed his time and looks forward/starts making plans for the next.

But.. I feel something is "off" whenever we're not together. Granted, the distance sucks and there's not much we can do until possibly after the new year - I may move closer to his area since I've been wanting to move to his city for years[even before I met him]. When we initially we're talking in person about the move last wk, he brought up the idea for me to possibly move in with him until I can find a job and housing (which I agreed with). Well, when I brought up the idea again yesterday, he seemed hesitant and was like, "Well, we'll have to see" and was backtracking somewhat.

There are other weird things too - I guess he doesn't have a lot of friends - so when he doesn't hang out with the guys, he hangs out with his ex-girlfriends. I've let this fly, thinking it's harmless - yet he mentioned to me the other day that he didn't tell them about me. He's British, so I don't know if there's a cultural difference with ex's? (prob. not?) but I *don't* keep in contact with most of my ex's and those that I do - I hardly talk to them. He even mentioned to me last night that he was going to see one of his ex-friends possibly today.

Sometimes I get the feeling that he's just trying to inadvertently push buttons or test me like that book, "Men who love bitches" and either I'll have to ignore or call him on it? (pls. don't give me the lecture about self-help books) I've had ex b/f's who were worse than him and dumped them, but with him - I feel like everything is so great and wonderful when we are together. Yet when we are not, it just seems strange. He does call me everyday and we have fun talking, but I feel like our convos. always have to be "light, airy, positive".. can't talk about the deeper things. He doesn't want to stay connected on places like Facebook, AIM or Yahoo Msgr. Then the other day, I logged onto match.com b/c I received several email notices.. [I was only curious, but would seriously close my acct. if he asks to be exclusive] and I saw that he was on.. just a few days ago.

I'm trying to remain calm and rational about everything, altho. now I feel like I should be more guarded now since we've been intimate. Never did the "where are we talk," nor asked him about exclusivity.. (yet). One of my friends did mention that he may be emotionally unavailable and is why he can't seem to emotionally connect. Can men relate to this? What do you guys think and/or how should I respond? Thank you for reading.

He wants to be "friends" but still likes me? Did I kill the attraction?

freshsprout — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:23:29 -0800

He likes me.. says I'm cute, smart and does want to be intimate.. but doesn't want a relationship. What is wrong? I'm 30 from Ca., he's 36 originally from the UK now also in Ca. We dated intensely for 4 weeks, had an amazing time and connected very well - physically and mentally. He's even introduced me to his friends. But after having a few beers, we got intimate (did not go all the way, I did tell him I can't sleep w/ someone until I got a commitment.. maybe that was a bad idea) and a week later, he broke up with me, asking to be friends saying he didn't "feel it."

I refused to talk to him for 3 wks. After a while, I gave in as a test and he was happy to hear from me. So now we're building as "friends". But the weird thing is, he still cares for me, and has said that I'm smart, cute, everything he is looking for. We hung out at a museum last week and he never left my side, he kept looking at me and I still felt that spark. Recently he admitted that he still thought of me, even sexually but he doesn't know if he sees us long term. I don't understand?

Do other men on here understand what's going on? I'm totally lost. I thought maybe the attraction died, but apparently it hasn't? Or did it? Did I initially scare him off? We plan on talking about things this week, as I want to make this work, but I don't want to be put in a compromising position.

Thank you.

Physical compliments from men: return them, or no?

toomuchkatherine — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:13:39 -0800

I have a question about paying physical compliments to men, especially in the early stages of a relationship. Men compliment women about their appearance often. Do they want these compliments returned, or is there a separate protocol for woman-to-man commentary? I'd be interested in hearing from women, what do you do, and from men, what do you expect/want? If a man tells you you have beautiful eyes/nice legs/whatever, aside from saying 'thank you,' is it appropriate to return by saying something you find physically attractive about him? I've felt a little dorky doing the latter, and a little bit off just saying 'thanks' and letting it be, too. I'm wondering whether there's some standard of gender etiquette here that I just never learned.

I'd really like to get to give this a shot - can you help?

FlyByDay — Tue, 06 May 2008 16:52:28 -0800

Here’s one of those how-do-I-play-this? relationship questions. At the very beginning of a possible relationship (with a touring musician) that I'd really like to give a chance to, but he may be too scared. (explanation inside) I am 42 years old, single and very interested in (being in) a relationship. I’m not desperate, I live on my own and enjoy time on my own, but I’m very ready for a relationship. Last serious one was several years ago. I recently got in touch (with no expectations) with someone I’ve known for years (15+) but never knew very well. We’re both musicians, but he’s much more successful than me. In fact, he’s a very successful touring musician (solo), and on the road a lot. He was playing in my town and I got in touch to see if he’d like to get together before his show. He did. We hung out and he left after the show, saying that he felt close to me and thought we should explore this further. I was/am down for that. He told me he’d had a crush on me years ago. I had no idea. I’ve since seen him a few more times with things getting…heavier each time (consummated), though we haven’t established if we’re really dating. We live a few hours apart, and like I said, he’s on the road a lot.

He is 54, a caretaker type, and his most recent relationship ended three years ago. The woman actually broke up with HIM, but proceeded to stalk and harass him, as she does to this day. It’s actually to an astounding degree, and much more complex than I can describe here. Multiple daily emails and calls, drive-bys, faked suicide attempts, and calls to venues nationwide. While he has done some things to deter her (getting a no-trespass order, not responding to her emails or calls EVER), he has also refused to change phone # or email (citing business reasons) and hasn’t used the full extent of the law, I think. That said, cops and lawyers tell him that there's not much he can do. She has two girls that he was very close to, and I don’t think he wants to affect them in any potentially negative way. I think he’s also used to bad relationships, and there’s a comfort zone there (in the drama) for him (again, too complex to explain). He did recently hire an attorney at great expense to do something related to her, though I’m not sure exactly what.

The above leads him to be very gunshy and to believe that women have a tendency to “become crazy”, though he did recently let me know that he did not think this of me. In fact, we’ve talked more about the connection we have, how the attraction is pretty crazy, and how much we enjoy each other. Still, we go days without speaking, because he’s dealing with the above and various other major changes and he’s asked me to give him some time, and because I think it’s just difficult to have comfortable and productive phone conversations with someone you don’t know THAT well. If I had a definitive time that I’d see him next (likely next week if he makes himself available), I’d feel much better. But the not-knowing makes me wonder what I’m doing and is stressing me out no end. I’m willing to give him some time, as he’s requested, but not if, in the end, he refuses to let us get to know each other in person. I like him a lot. I think he’s very cool, and in many ways an incredibly sensitive and evolved guy (supported by many others who also know him – people tend to just adore this guy). I think we could potentially be good for each other and have something really good, but I don’t know yet.

Ironically, the one thing I don’t really worry about, despite the fact that women are CONSTANTLY coming on to this guy (which is the nature of how he sings and writes), is him finding someone else. He is very careful about getting involved at all, but I fear that he’ll stop this before it starts because he’s just too scared. He’s been in several relationships, but is at a serious crossroads, as am I. I think the timing could actually be beneficial if he’ll give us a chance, but I’m not sure he will, though this was his idea to begin with. I wish I knew what to DO here. Stop calling (I don’t call very often to begin with, and we don’t email each other) and TRULY back off, or assume it’s not happening, or…what? Is there a “formula” that will most likely result in him giving us a chance? Any insights (other than “run away!”, since I’m not really looking for that) would be appreciated.

I want to marry her, but at what cost?

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:30:47 -0800

My girlfriend and I have religious and cultural differences. How can our relationship work? My GF and I have now been going out for almost 10 months. We're in love and care deeply for each other. We're already talking about marriage. However, things are complicating our long term future.

She is Catholic and I'm not religious. She's deeply religious and wants to raise the kids Catholic. I have no problem with this at all. But, she feels that in order to raise the kids Catholic, both parents must be 100% behind it. What she means by this is that she would like me to go to church with her. I am not Christian in the least and have no plans of converting.

My GF's rationale is as follows: If she goes to church and I don't, the kids will ask why dad doesn't go to church. This might lead them to religious confusion.

Another problem is that our cultures are not remotely similar. I'm from Asia, and she has an American dad and Mexican mom. She is worried that she will be shut out from my culture.

Finally, she asked me what we have in common. She says we don't have religion or culture in common. This concerns her as to what sort of an identity our future kids might have.

I deeply love this girl, and want to make it work, but she has stated the options as follows:

1. She leaves her religion and culture behind, leading to possible resentment of me.
2. I go to church with her and the kids, leading to resentment from me.
3. We break up.

I don't want to break up, but also don't know how to resolve this situation so we can move forward. Any suggestions?

Stop the Butterflies!

TerraM — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:51:53 -0800

So he's younger, I'm older. We are good friends.. we have fun.. but I find myself falling in love with him. There are many reasons to not let myself do it, so how do I stop those butterflies? We go to lunch together, we go to happy hours together.. we work together (in the same building but not same group). But I find myself gravitating to him , and him to me..

There are so many reasons not to let it happen.. the age difference (16 years) is too much for me to comprehend.. (he's 30).

I think there are feelings on his part too, but I'm not sure. Do relationships like that truly work out?

Should I marry a woman when I also like men?

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:36:30 -0800

I am a guy who has been dating a wonderful girl for four years. We have been living together for most of that time. We are both out of college and in our mid-20s. Though this is my first relationship I feel like we are perfect for each other. She's had other relationships (long and short-term) and feels the same way. I am thinking of asking her to marry me, except for one thing: I am bisexual and it is difficult to give up men. As I said, we feel perfect. We settle arguments quickly and without tears. We have similar hobbies, interests, love spending time together, but are OK with each other having alone time. We have similar ideas about kids, family, finances, all of the important topics. I am sure I could spend the rest of my life with her.

The only doubts come because I have never dated or even kissed anyone else, man or woman (I was closeted until right before we began dating). It does not seem smart to make this commitment with so little experience because I have no basis for comparison. Furthermore I would like to explore the side of myself that is attracted to men. Early in the relationship we discussed this, but I have never acted on it because our relationship is so great and though early on she once said she would be OK with me exploring I could tell from looking at her that this would break her heart. Neither of us feel like we could "do" polyamory--she read "The Ethical Slut" for a human sexuality class and has no moral objections but neither of us could emotionally handle it. I do not want to just have anonymous hook-ups anyway, I want to try real dating.

What she and I have feels like true love in every definition of the word. But these doubts exist. I don't want to give up what I have and find out years later after dating others I'm an idiot. I also don't want to give up on men before ever trying them.

Why is he still going to Match.com?

terra — Fri, 19 May 2006 04:30:30 -0800

If a guy is not a player why would he continue to frequent a dating site a month into what seems to be a pretty good relationship for both of us? First off let me say I AM going to have a talk with said gentleman once I get some feedback from everyone here, but right now I'm confused and afraid of getting hurt and need input on the situation. I've been single for many years but am NOT a serial dater - 90% of those years have been spent as a single, working mom, dating very little. So I probably don't have the street smarts I need for this kind of thing. Yikes.

A little over a month ago and six months after the end of a 1.5 year relationship with Mr. Wrong, my only truly *bad* choice in years of dating, I jumped back into the online dating thing. I met this Mr. Wrong on Yahoo!, which for me was bad because there's no real matching involved - anyone can and does e-mail you - and in my area the caliber of man on Yahoo! was pretty bad.

I went to Match.com and soon realized that, while the guys seemed to be better people, anyone can pester me via e-mail even though reading my profile would tell them explicitly what I'm looking for or what I'm about and that we'd be an obvious mismatch. Also, I recognized several faces that were STILL around from when I was on Yahoo! a couple of years ago. Guess the serial daters had just moved up a notch. Was about to cancel my membership and go to eHarmony, when Match offered a subscription to their similar new venture, Chemistry. So I signed up.

Chemistry promotes the kind of LTR I'm looking for. You have to answer a lot of questions and they send you a few matches rather than letting everyone search their database and mail anyone they like. For me, this works. I hoped to find the man I would eventually marry.

So I get a few matches who seem far and away above the guys whose profiles are on other sites, but for one reason or another they're just not quite "it." And then I got the e-mail about Mr. Right. So many of the things about him just clicked with me. We went through all their guided communication stuff and it just kept clicking, as did our in-person meeting. Lest you think it's simply that he's a hottie I must say he's just an average guy in the looks department.

So Mr. Right has been divorced for six years and hasn't had a steady relationship in two years. He is also a single parent. Match offered him the same deal on Chemistry as they did me. I never saw his profile on Match during the short time I was on it, but after he told me that was how he'd come to Chemistry I found it and checked it out. That's when I saw that it said "Active within 24 hours." Well, okay - I've only been seeing him for a couple of weeks...maybe he's still shopping. I, on the other hand, pulled my Match profile after going over to Chemistry, not wanting to be spammed by Mr. Wrongs any longer. And I've since cancelled my Chemistry membership as well, though I paid for a period that will not end for another month and a half.

When I had been with Mr. Wrong for a couple of months I found that he was still corresponding with women on Yahoo!, a fact that upset me to no end, though he dismissed it as just harmless flirting and said he just really got an ego boost out of it. Based on the fact that he was at my house practically all the time I'd say he probably didn't actually meet any of these women. But even if he didn't, what about the woman on the other end he is stringing along? What a jerk thing to do.

My relationship with Mr. Right has become physical. We see one another a lot. When we're not together he calls me and we usually have pretty lengthy phone conversations. So if he was seeing anyone else it'd have to be that he was getting two hours of sleep a night or something ridiculous like that. Because of my bad experience with Mr. Wrong I didn't want to do anything stupid when I should have known better, so last night I went to Match and found Mr. Right's profile again and, as it was a few weeks ago the "Active within 24 hours" was noted. If you are a Match member other members can see who's looked at their profile, so I went in anonymously with a different browser. I don't think my profile is accessible to anyone at all because I deactivated it but I didn't want to take any chances that he'd think I was still trolling around on Match - I'm not.

So, guys in particular, what's the deal? Is it a harmless ego boost? Is he trying to get something going with someone else? Even if it is just flirting it is not acceptable to me if our relationship is going to progress, and I will tell him that. But right now I just need to hear some outside opinions on the situation. I am in my early (gasp!) 40's and he is in his late 40's.

Rules, rules, rules

brautigan — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:39:52 -0800

What are "The Rules" for guys? For better or for worse, the girls were given their own but, gentlemen, what are the hard and fast dating / relationship rules you have learned over the years? And go easy on the wisecracks here. Ladies, in the interests of equality and better advice, feel free to throw in any rules us men should know.

(If this is too ChatFilter then delete - I am, however, specifically looking for rules, hopefully positive ones, to replace my own, rather negative, ones)

They aren't really from Mars, are they?

hyperfascinated — Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:48:55 -0800

FormerLesbianFilter: Can you give me any insight about men and/or the way men think and function? I'm now in the 9th month of my first serious heterosexual relationship, and while both the relationship and the guy are awesome, it's been striking just how different it is doing the relationship-dance with a male. At times I feel like I really don't know what the heck I'm doing- I feel quite aware that I haven't been practicing this since the age of 13 like most women have.

So, for men:
What do you wish yr partner understood about you or men in general?

For those of you who love men:
What have yr relationships taught you about interacting with men?

Can anybody recommend a book that might be helpful to me?

Guys need help in love, too.

itchie — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:59:42 -0800

Is there a book for heterosexual guys similiar to She's Not Into You and other similar books for chicks?