Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with relationships and gay

The job offer, the boyfriend, and the dilemma

Anonymous — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:18:07 -0800

I'm considering a great job offer in another state, and what it might mean for my two-year relationship. Help me develop a framework for making some decisions about all this. For the past two years, I've been dating a great guy. He's the sweetest man I've ever met, would do anything for me, and if I asked him to marry me tomorrow (and if it were legal; I'm also a guy), he would in a heartbeat.

Last week, I was offered a stellar job in DC (I live in Minnesota). Without my partner in the picture, I'm 95% sure I would accept the job without hesitation. It's a great fit for my skills, I love the organization, I really like the team I'd be working with and the fellow I'd be working for, I love the project I'd be helping to lead, etc. I'm currently an independent contractor, making a nice living working remotely (and temporarily) for a company in Florida. I've turned down a number of jobs while carefully considering my next step, but this feels like the right one. I'll miss Minnesota, but wouldn't mind being back on the East Coast, close to many friends and closer to family.

My partner was let go from his job earlier this year, partly because he spent too much time visiting me while I worked in another state for nine months. When I returned to Minnesota this past summer, we discussed living together, but I told him I wasn't ready. Now, he'd have absolutely no hesitation about moving with me to DC, but I still have concerns.

I'm the coldly rational guy in the relationship; he's the warm, emotional one. This is the longest, deepest relationship I've ever been in (we're both 29).* He's had one other significant relationship, and it ended badly a while after he dropped out of college to move with his lover across the country. I try not to view this last fact as foreshadowing, especially considering he's just restarted college (a distance education program, unaffected by the move).

Like any relationship, ours has highs and lows, and I have no idea which will outweigh which in the years to come. I love him. I still don't know (and I'm not sure I ever will) if I want to spend the rest of my life with him. He has depression, which he takes medication for, and which I've come to learn a lot about. Till now, I've been able to take our relationship a day at a time. This job offer changes that situation.

One of the reasons I hesitated to move in together previously was concern over our widely asymmetrical financial situations. I wanted to be sure he retained his financial independence in case things didn't work out. Another reason is that I really value my own space. I've never lived with a boyfriend before, and I've also never had a bad breakup - I tend to find a correlation there. On some level, I might be a classic commitment-phobe, but I think that phobia's expressed itself in mostly healthy, prudent ways.

The prospect of moving across the country together really ups the ante. We'd have to live together, and my salary would have to cover most of the [significantly higher] cost of living, at least until he finds a job. He'd be dependent on me, to a degree, and economically (as well as emotionally) devastated if "things didn't work out." But I think the pressures of cohabitation in a place where he has no job and no friends would be a difficult test for our relationship, especially with such high stakes.

If I decline a terrific offer, mostly to stay here with him, I worry that decision would have other portents for our relationship. I worry that I wouldn't be able to avoid projecting onto him some of my regret at passing on a great opportunity, the way I suspect he secretly projects onto his ex his decision to drop out of college. I also worry that after my contract work ends, the only local opportunities I'd find would be significantly inferior to the DC gig. Every job offer I've turned down so far has been in a different state, and I fear my career will force my hand sooner rather than later.

I don't think it would be feasible for us to date long-distance again. We had the leisure of visiting each other at least once a month during my 9-month sojourn. But now, I'd be strapped for time, and he'd be strapped for cash, making visits problematic. Working remotely in the new job isn't an option.

I have a great career, which is important to me, although I'm definitely not a workaholic. I don't think the calculus here is quite as simple as whether my career or my relationship comes first. I need some advice on how to talk about this with my partner, guidance on what factors I should take into consideration, thoughts on what options are available, and questions that might broaden or focus my thinking.

Thanks for reading this, and thanks in advance for your insights.

* If you watch How I Met Your Mother, you'd call me Robin, and him Marshall (in fact, just like Robin, I'm from Canada, and just like Marshall, he's from Minnesota).

How do I fix me?

Anonymous — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:33:36 -0800

I feel like my life is over and I'm only 35. I feel completely stagnant and stuck, relationshipwise and jobwise. Do I need to change things or do I need to learn how to deal? Help me figure out how to be a happier person. Is there some Grand Unified Theory that explains all my problems? How do I fix me?

I'm a 35-year-old male who has dealt with lifelong anxiety. Two major things in my life right now have me in despair: my relationship and my job. Neither of these is awful; they are just blah. I can't see either of them improving. I feel like I'm too young to have a midlife crisis, but I feel like I have nothing left to look forward to. My life feels over. I feel like even if I change things, I'll become anxious and unhappy about something else. There are good things about my life, but I just do not know how to be content. Maybe deep down I feel like I don't deserve it.

I have been in therapy with different therapists on and off since I was 17. I've been seeing my current therapist for nearly 9 years, and I like her, and I have insights regularly, and she claims that I've changed for the better, but I still feel unhappy. I am a compulsive self-analyzer, but I can't seem to translate insights into actual change. Isn't the goal of therapy supposed to be to get to a point where you don't need therapy anymore?

I took meds (Celexa) for about 4 1/2 years. I never really felt like it solved things. I don't think I have depression -- I can function fine, I don't confine myself to bed, there are things I enjoy, I have genuine passion for life. It's just that life weighs heavily on me, and it always has.

I get frustrated and stressed out easily by little things in life. I have always worried about death, worried about wasting my life, worried about getting older (even when I was 21). Now I worry about middle age, old age. I'm gay, and I feel like I wasted my youth because I didn't come out of the closet until I was 24. I worry about long-term stress making me ill, which causes me more stress.

My relationship: I've posted a few AskMe's about this before (see here -- I changed details like numbers and dates in that first post because I wanted to be extra-safe about being anonymous), and I hate the idea of being a broken record, and I can see how people who have read my previous AskMe's might shake their heads at me for not having changed anything. But the thing is, I'm just terrified.

In short: my partner and I have been together for six years, and we've been in couples therapy for the last two. We truly love and care about each other and have a cozy, very boring, oxytocin-filled relationship, but we have never had a very sexual relationship, and after discussing it repeatedly in therapy, I'm pretty much convinced we never will. He has practically zero sex drive, and I'm just not sexually attracted to him. We have fooled around together twice -- twice -- in the last four years, and never did much before that. We have an open, don't ask/don't tell arrangement, which means that all my sex is with other people, which means that I can never have sex that includes intimacy, which means a big part of my life is very unfulfilled. Whenever I do start to feel some sort of intimacy with someone, I feel really guilty about it.

I guess the difference between this AskMe and my previous ones is that while I used to think there was a possibility we could eventually have a sexually fulfilling relationship, I've since realized we never will.

He also very much likes having a routine, likes being a homebody except for going to the theater alot (we live in Manhattan) and going to our favorite restaurant. He isn't big on excitement. Me, I need to shake things up every once in a while. That might sound odd, given that I tend to be pretty anxious, but I do like to expand my comfort zone sometimes, while he doesn't.

There are some days when I obsess about breaking up with him. But when it comes down to it, I just can't seem to do it. We have talked in our couples therapy about breaking up, and I would just miss him terribly -- having him next to me at night, talking with him, being with him. Plus, since I'm a very emotional person and I get stressed out easily, I just can't see how I could handle being alone and missing him. Our relationship has major flaws, but I do feel calmer knowing he is there whenever I get totally anxious about something. I cannot imagine being stressed out and having nobody to turn to, especially because I live in Manhattan, which can be a difficult, isolating place sometimes. Would I move into some small crappy studio by myself somewhere? I don't have very many friends, so I don't have much of a support system. (My partner and I are both in a social organization, so there are friends/acquaintances there, and people do like me, but it's hard sometimes because I worry about what people think of me.)

What if I wind up being single for the rest of my life? What if nobody else comes along? What if someone else does come along but that relationship is majorly flawed as well? What if my punishment for breaking up with my partner is that I never find anyone else again? Because, odd as this sounds, I do feel like I would be punished for it. That I am not allowed to change my situation, that I should be thankful for what I have, that I want too much.

Maybe I could keep him in my life, and we could be best friends?

And... what if I end the relationship and I'm still unhappy?

Now for the job situation: this is another thing entirely. My job is not very stressful and is sometimes decent, and I'm thankful for that, especially in this economy. But it's just a boring paycheck for me and isn't at all meaningful. Worst of all, over the summer, my office moved into a sterile office park in the New Jersey suburbs. Now I go to the office two days a week, which is a 1 hour 40 minute commute each way, and on the other three days I work from home, which feels so isolating and makes me feel like I'm not doing anything. I despair of ever getting out of this situation.

I have never known what I wanted to do with my life. I have seen career counselors, I have read career books -- at times I have been hopeful but I eventually despair. I have wanted to be a writer, a therapist, a journalist, a professor. I went to law school, but I didn't really enjoy being a lawyer. Now my job is related to the law, but it doesn't thrill me either. What I *do* like to do is read nonfiction and learn about things. I love learning and I love writing, but I don't think I have the expertise or ability to write nonfiction, and I have little interest in writing fiction. I am good at writing about myself, but who wants to read about me?

See how hard on myself I am?

I am also very fickle -- I can never be sure that what interests me now will interest me a few months from now. The only constant is history, particularly American history.

I feel hopeless at 35, and if the next 50 years are like the last 10, I don't know what I'm going to do, and I am only getting older. I am stuck, stuck, stuck, and I hate it.

I've created a MeFi account that I can't post from yet, but you can email me there if you want.

So I Guess He Wasn't Into Me?

cscott — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:05:54 -0800

Is He Just Not That Into Me: Part Deux Hey guys!

So I have a little update about the situation I shared last week here. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm going to re-post a portion of the back story from last week for anyone who didn't get a chance to read it.

So there's this guy I'm cybercrushing on ... He's a model who's moving to the city I live in three months. There are four of us on this social networking website who have bonded and I've met the other two in person. Three weeks ago, one of them posted a video of him, me, and another dude about some random stuff. We all have photos posted of ourselves on this social networking website so it's no mystery to the guy I have a crush on what I look like. But in the video I had a voice and personality. He sent me a message saying, "You are really handsome ... more than you let on. Just saw the video. Very handsome indeed!" Later we were chatting about gay dating and ethnicity. I was saying that since I'm not white (I'm South Asian) a lot of people can't really figure out where I'm from and probably aren't into darker skinned guys like me. He said, "I like 'em swarthy :)" So I thought maybe he's flirting with me. But before that he was saying that he has a type. There are exceptions but his type is a white guy in his mid-30s with dark hair. And I obviously don't fit that description. Last week, I asked whether he's really just not into me because I'm not his type physically. Most of you said it's impossible to know right now so just keep flirting and see what happens.

Well ... we chatted a couple of times online this past weekend. He was asking me what's the best neighborhood to live in once he moves here and where he could work part-time before getting into modeling. The second time we chatted we went back and forth for two hours. He said I was a shining example of a gay man, asked me loads of questions about my cultural and ethnic background (when I felt like I was rambling he said "I'm 10000% interested"), said he was sorry that in one online discussion forum he judged me too quickly (because back then he didn't know me as well), told me my name sounds beautiful, and when we were signing off he said "Good night, panda!" (yes, I cringed too, but I guess it was cute :)

But last night on this same social networking/discussion website we were talking about some random issue. This guy in my city started asking him when he was moving here and said "You're cute." My crush sort of blew the guy off on that public thread with a "Thanks. But I promise you. I'm not that great." Then somehow the city I live in came up in discussion on the thread and he said, "I'll be museuming, concerting, going to the park, conquering the city! CScott, can't wait for you to join me, buddy." My stomach buckled ... buddy? Four days after showering me with compliments and after personally messaging me to tell me I'm really handsome, now I'm in the friend zone?

Okay so I know this is an overanalysisfest. Forgive me. I WAS thinking ... maybe this guy likes me ... I mean he's told me he thinks I'm very attractive, says I'm a shining example of a gay man, says goodbye in what seemed like a somewhat affectionate tone (but maybe he's just weird), says he's "10000% interested!" in learning about my cultural background ... And now I'm his buddy. Okay okay ... this is ridiculous because I haven't even met him in person yet and I'm already trying to figure out EXACTLY what he's thinking/feeling. But all I want to know is if this is an obvious "let's just stay friends" situation so that I don't waste any time thinking there's potential when he gets here. ::Sigh:: Hard to figure shit out online. Curse the blasted internet! ::he writes as he finishes typing his Metafilter question:: ;)

How do I proceed without alienating him?

animerion — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:51:06 -0800

Should I be content with just being friends, or should I push more? Hi everyone,

A few weeks ago, while out with a friend, I met a guy that he works with for drinks. We all had a good time, and I was almost instantly into this guy.

Since that even I have thought about this person quite a bit so I found him on Facebook (how high school, I know) and added him just mentioning we all hung out and such. He replied that he'd been trying to stalk me but there are a lot of people on Facebook with my first name and he didn't have my full name. So I got the add and proceeded to ask him he wanted to grab a drink some time. He accepted.

Earlier this week we went out, chatted for a few hours over several pints and dinner and proceeded to exchange our numbers and such. We chat on IM at work and text in the evenings (he's not much of a phone talker). I mentioned to him that I had a good time and suggested that we did it again and now I'm under the impression that that he's looking for friend because he responded that "he's always game for beer" and would like me to join his friends in activities and such. Which is cool, as I don't really have too many friend around here, but I was under the impressions this would lead to something that wasn't strictly platonic. Am I just being impatient? I tend to over-think, well, everything so I'm pretty much going in circles on this one. Any thoughts would be helpful.

Can you find lifelong love at 35?

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:14:02 -0800

LoveFilter: Interested in your stories of finding lifelong love at age 35 or older, gay or straight. I'm a 35-year-old gay man and want to know what my chances are. I'm a gay man, and there are times when I seriously consider breaking up with my long-term partner of several years. But I definitely want to be coupled with someone, and my fear is that at 35 years old, I'm too old to find a great guy. I worry that all the good ones might already be taken, and that most of those who are left are single because they're either not looking for a serious relationship or are undateable.

I do live in a big city, which probably enhances my prospects, but I know that there are fewer guys out there when you're 35 than when you're 25. On the other hand, I'd be looking for guys within a few years of my age -- I wouldn't be chasing 22-year-olds -- so I probably wouldn't have to worry about much younger guys thinking I was too old. I also feel like I might have an advantage because I have a "resume" -- I've been in a long-term relationship, so I know what it's like and I can prove to prospective partners that I know how to be in one.

Still, I worry about my chances. So it would really help me to hear about your stories of landing in long-term successful relationships at age 35 or older, whether you're gay or straight -- and regardless of whether it's your first love, your second love, or further. Straight people do have a much wider pool to choose from, so it might be easier for them to find love than gay people, but I'm still curious. Thanks!

What's my next move? I'm confused.

cscott — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:57:05 -0800

What move should I make on this guy, if any? Hey everyone,

So I'm in a situation right now and could use some advice :) This is a somewhat lengthy story but please bear with me ...

One of my friends (I'll call him "Lance" even though that's not his real name) has a friend (I'll call him "David") who is very cute. I had seen David out and about before and asked some of my friends who he is and they all said "Oh, that's David, and yeah he is very attractive but he's a whore. Not your type. He's probably hooked up with more people than you and we know you're not really into that." I met him for the first time at a house party at the end of January very briefly. I added him on Facebook and he e-mailed me saying it was nice to meet me. We exchanged some platonic messages about what we do in the city for a living. Then two weeks ago, Lance mentioned that David and him would be out at a certain gay club and that I should join them. I had other friends going out there too so I decided to show up.

David, my friend, and I chatted for a little while. I was already somewhat drunk at this point and so were they. David said, "By the way, I saw your Facebook profile. Your brother is really cute." I felt awkward so I laughingly said "Oh, he's 22 and straight and has a girlfriend. Haha." Then I said I was going to the bar to get another drink (which meant having to push past a large mass of people on the dance floor). David said, "I'll come with you." He then wrapped his fingers in mine as I ended up leading him to the bar. By the time I got to there I gathered that he might be interested so I asked if he was single (I had met his ex at the house party in January but wasn't sure if they had unresolved issues). He said yes, then paused and explained that he comes with a lot of baggage because he was with his ex for three years (from age 20 to 23) and things got messy. They're friends now. Then we made out for twenty minutes.

I said, "To be honest, I don't really get around to doing this (i.e. making out) too often." He said, "To be honest I do." I asked him out to coffee and he agreed. Then he backed out saying he enjoyed making out with me but was just looking to make friends. When he said that I was on my way out of the club anyway so I just said "Okay. Later." As I cabbed my way home, he texted me saying "Text me when you get home, okay?" and then again "Yo please do not bar yourself from getting to know me and becoming my friend." I responded saying something like don't worry about it I'm totally cool going forward as friends. He said ,"Great. I'm excited to get to know you." The next day I figured he wasn't really into me and I didn't think about him much.

Then, two weeks later (this past Thursday), David IM'ed me saying he was planning to go to a party on Friday and then another one on Saturday and said he'd let me know the details. I ran into David and Lance at Friday's club party, sure enough, but I told myself that I'd just be cool and friendly instead of flirtatious with David because he doesn't seem to be looking to date (whereas I am) and may not even be interested in me anyway. We made small talk for a little while, but eventually there came a point at which he approached me and started dancing with me. He seemed somewhat drunk at that point and I didn't resist because I feel attracted to him and was pretty drunk myself. After dancing and chatting for a while we went to the bar to get more drinks. He kept kissing my cheeks ...

He stepped away for a bit to say hello to a friend and then came back to dance and make out with me. He said, "I think you're so amazing." Then he walked over to the bar and sat down on a plant. I figured he was just resting for a bit but when I asked him if he was okay he just shook his head. It was clear that the hard liquor had hit him so I asked the bartender for some water, texted Lance to come by the bar because David was in bad shape, and tried to convince the security guard that I'd be able to sober him up (so we wouldn't get kicked out of the club). He took a few sips of water but was still sitting on the plant. I called Lance. No answer. The security guard told us to step outside to sober David up. I took David down the stairs and outside; I was drunk myself but managed to get us outside. Once there, he said, "You're too nice." I said, "David, you're in bad shape. Tell me what you want to do. Did you come here by subway or cab. How do you want to get home? What do you want to do?" He said, "Sit with me." He then sat down on the sidewalk leaning against a building and pulled me by my hands to kiss him. I said, "Listen, maybe we should get your coat from inside." He agreed. Lance finally showed up at coat check with some guy he'd been dancing with. The four of us went to a diner. David lay his head in his arms on the table. I managed to feed him a few bites of a waffle. He woke up at one point and said to Lance, "I want to go wherever he goes." Lance said, "David, he's not as drunk as you and you need to come home with me so I can take care of you. You're in really bad shape. I've never seen you this bad before." When we left the diner David pulled me in to kiss me again. Lance pulled him away and managed to get him into a cab. David blew me kisses in the air as he stumbled into the taxi.

The next day David called me to apologize. He said he felt really embarrassed. I said, "Don't worry about it. We've all been there. And Lance and I took care of you." He said, "No, you took care of me. I owe you a night of being taken care of. What are you up to tonight? I'm still going out to a friend's birthday party and my ex is going out to celebrate because he finished an exam yesterday." I had dinner plans that night but was free afterwards so I went with Lance and David AGAIN! This time we were fairly sober and I noticed that David was actually a nice, fun guy to chill with. I had to leave earlier than them. David texted me a while later, "Got home okay?" Since then we've exchanged a few e-mails about random things: he asked me if I owned a copy of a book he was looking for but couldn't find and complimented me on a song of mine which I had e-mailed as an attachment to Lance and him. He said "Wow you're very talented and I really like the lyrics you wrote. You remind me of one of my favorite a cappella groups ..."

My issue is this: I'm tempted to think that he's physically attracted to me because he's tried to hook up with me on the dance floor twice in the past two weeks. But I'm not certain of that. And, even if he is, I don't know if he sees me as anything more than a "boytoy" to fool around with on the dance floor when he's plastered. Also based on his earliest comments and his age (he's 23 whereas I'm 26), I don't even know if he's looking to date (either casually or seriously); I'd really prefer to go on dates with someone than experiment sexually, drunkenly, and randomly. That's not really how I roll. I do still feel attracted to him and want to go on a date with him, but I'm not even sure if I should ask. Was the whole thing so obviously one-dimensional that it wouldn't even be worth asking him out? Or should I text him later this week to see if he wants to get lunch? I have a bad habit of overthinking in these situations so let me know what you think. And I'm so sorry to make this so damn long!

The Next Step After Encountering Ambiguity

cscott — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:17:11 -0800

What is the next step? So I'm a 26-year-old gay guy in a major metropolis who met this attractive 25-year-old guy at a party two Saturdays ago. He approached me and complimented my dancing. We hit it off and conversed for a while. Eventually we went to his place and talked for another hour or so about our experiences being gay, coming from families of a particular religious background, and other things. We ended up sleeping together, but didn't go past brief oral sex. We met for two more dates last week which went quite well. There was oral sex involved on both of these occasions as well but we had a conversation about STD's and testing; both of us have been tested recently and are clean. A few days ago, on our third meeting, he fixed me breakfast at his place, told me I made him "feel all happy" when I was kissing him before we left the apartment, and when I mentioned that I'd have to go shopping for furniture for the apartment I just moved into, he said, "Oh, maybe we can go together." Right before we parted ways I suggested that we meet in a couple of days. He said that sounds good and that the day I mentioned is usually one of his best days. Later that evening (Sunday) I text messaged him to see how his day went and he responded rather enthusiastically. Then yesterday evening (Monday) I called him and left a voicemail asking how his day went and telling him that since I have a lot of work, I can't do dinner the following day but can meet for a movie and then maybe head to his place (since my new place is still in the process of getting organized). I didn't hear back from him so I text messaged him this morning to see if we were still on for tonight's plans. He responded a couple of hours later saying "I'm not gonna be able to because I'm still workin on a project that's due tomorrow :/"

He didn't suggest an alternative in that message. My instinct is to think that this is a polite form of rejection. The reason I'm writing here is that I find it really strange that after three enjoyable dates and many pleasantries exchanged (as well as great physical chemistry), he would suddenly never want to see me again. If he's no longer interested in dating, I can respect his decision, but given that we have much in common, I would hope we can at least continue as friends. I do recall, though, that on our last date since I was pretty drunk while we were making out, I said, "I wanted to ask you something." He said, "What?" And I said, "No no, I shouldn't say it." He kept pushing me until I finally said, "So, I'm not seeing anyone else ..." He then interjected, "Whoa, hold your horses. I like that you're open about your feelings but we gotta take things slowly." And I said, "You're right." It was a short conversation and our makeout session then proceeded. Neither of us brought it up the next day, but I suppose it's possible that he perceived that as too aggressive and fast-paced for his tastes. I don't know.

Do you guys think that I'm right to read this as a form of polite rejection or is it possible that he's actually busy and wouldn't be averse to a phone call some time later suggesting an alternative date/time to meet up? If I am right that he has rejected me, is there anything I can tell him which shows that I'd still like to go forward as friends? Should I not even bother having any communication whatsoever with him going forward?

Thanks so much.

Ethics and Ethnicity

cscott — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:09:28 -0800

How to practice ethics and negotiate ethnicity as a gay man? Hey everyone,

It's been a while since I've been on this site! So here's my situation ... Last month, I went on five dates with a guy I really started to like. I'll call him Mr. A. We were physical and slept together a few times, but we've never even had oral sex. After our fourth date, I think he began to see that I was growing closer to him. This is when he went missing for about a week and later sent me an e-mail apologizing for having been out of touch. He explained that he's been in a bizarre "non-relationship" with his ex (whom he had been with for almost four years), that the two still have residual feelings for each other, and that he had also been dating a couple of other guys while he was seeing me. He then asked whether I'd like to take things slowly because he still likes me but needs time to sort out his feelings. I responded saying that I think it's best we go forward only as friends because, the way things stand, I'm not the focus of his attention. I'm not really interested in a friends-with-benefit deal.

I went to a house party of his recently and met a friend of his who I think is very handsome. I'll call him Mr. B. I think Mr. B was being somewhat flirtatious with me, but there was nothing so overt in his behavior as to make me certain of this. Eventually, all of Mr. A's friends left his party and we had a little chat. A part of me missed his presence in a strange way. I was somewhat tipsy and we ended up making out and sleeping together at his place (though, again, we didn't have any kind of sex). The next morning, the ambiguity of our friendship began to disturb me, so I told him that I don't think we should have anything physical going forward (because I don't want to get emotionally attached to him when he is still sorting his feelings out for his ex). Mr. A said he appreciated my maturity and honesty, understands how I feel, and was glad I brought it up. So I've demarcated the boundaries of my friendship with Mr. A. (I also randomly found out from Mr. A that Mr. B and he dated briefly back in their college days but are now just good friends).

I added Mr. B on an online social networking website and sent a brief note saying it was nice to meet him and that we should hang out soon. He responded saying it was good to meet you too and, yes, let's hang soon. He then invited me to his birthday party which is in a week and a half and I plan to attend. I feel attracted to Mr. B and want to ask him out to coffee, but I don't want that to rub Mr. A the wrong way. Technically, I suppose it isn't any of Mr. A's business. We weren't in a relationship and I have made it clear that I only want to be friends going forward. I guess I'm just worried that Mr. A might feel that I'm a jerk for going after one of his friends? Or maybe this is a non-issue? I'd love to hear your thoughts on whether or not this is unethical. This is the first part of my question.

The second component is that I am not white like both of these guys. (I am South Asian). In the case of Mr. A, he was very clearly interested in me and he initiated the communication, so ethnicity was never an obstacle for him. I'm not sure what Mr. B thinks. I mention this because whenever I try to forge connections with gay white men, I am almost always turned down well before they have a chance to see my personality. I am not generally perceived to be ugly and have been told by my family, friends, and (even a few white guys at that house party, go figure!) that I'm attractive. I'm not saying this to inflate my ego, just to note that I think many white and Latino men who have only developed a taste for their own ethnic kind (since they are the two dominant ethnicities in this country) tend not to take much interest in men who are in a small ethnic minority (and therefore exoticized and/or neglected when it comes to dating). My other qualms about asking Mr. B out for coffee, then, is that, since I am in just such an ethnic minority, I will be rejected solely on those grounds. One way of resolving this is to say, "Well, you don't know that with certainty, and you have nothing to lose, so just message him and see what happens." Fair enough, but this doesn't solve the larger problematic of ethnicity and how it's perceived in our culture. Do you all have any opinions about whether this is a problem in your gay scene/communities? I live in a major gay metropolis, but that in itself is no antidote to this peculiar form of discrimination.

Sorry to ramble as usual .... :)

Moving to Seattle; landing safely.

kzin602 — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:34:22 -0800

At some point within the next year I will have the opportunity to move to Seattle, Washington in order to be with the man I love. He will be relocating there in order to pursue his career. However I have some cold feet… I currently work in a couple steps above entry level position in a tech company, making just under 40k before taxes, 401k , etc…

I don’t have a diploma beyond Highschool, and my primary concern is making ends meet. I’ve struggled to get myself out of the hole dug by poor life decisions and into a situation where I am self sufficient and actually reducing my debt.

Is anybody familiar with the job prospects in Seattle? I’m experienced with general tech, web design programming and hardware; stuff like that. I plan on getting a bachelors from a state university once I pay off my debts.

I’ve been squirreling away money into a savings account and at my current rate will have enough saved to survive a month or so on my own. I have an overwhelming fear of ending up back on the streets; basically back where I was before, except now in an unfamiliar city… It’s one thing to be homeless at the age of 20; at least it’s cool to be a gutter punk. But at 28, things are not so rosy.

While my partner can help with my share of the bills, I’d rather not do that, in fact I’ve gone thus far in my life being self sufficient, and being the responsible one in relationships.

He is a good person, and I love him very much and I know he feels the same, but neither one of us could handle a long distance thing; as it’s not going to get any easier to move the longer I am where I am now.

I throw myself upon the altar of mefite wisdom. Any suggestions for keeping myself on my feet?

You're so gay, and you don't even like boys... ???

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:43:26 -0800

I fell in love with my best friend, who is a guy. I’m a young bisexual guy. Apparently, he is not. Did the “wrong thing” and told him about how I felt, and was rejected, but things seemed okay afterward. However, I’m still hurting, I’m feeling delusional about it, and sometimes I think that he inadvertently isn’t helping… how do I live with my best friend now? Help me, Metafilter! I think one of the major issues in me getting past what happened was how many positive signs of success I thought I was seeing prior to the big moment. Worse, these signals have continued so strongly after the fact that individuals ignorant as to the overall situation have begun to take notice. Let’s call my friend James. Before I started being romantically attracted to him, my “gaydar” (apologies for invoking this concept) had gone off on him, as had those of all other LGB friends who know him. In addition, I had known him to have three romantic interactions (at the very least heavy kissing, petting, etc., if not oral sex) with a male friend of ours that hadn’t even occurred while drunk. Off the bat, I was primed to think of him as a queer man, someone who definitely wasn’t a “0” on the Kinsey scale.

We’ve known each other for almost three years now, and especially since about a seven months ago, James and I have had one of the strongest interpersonal relationships of my life… we clicked really famously on the friendship front. For about two years, I hadn’t been romantically attracted to him, but then a switch flicked on and the strong feelings of friendship toward him began to give rise to desires for more intimate bonds between us. Realizing how bad the situation could get, I kept these feelings (and my sexuality) under wraps for several months, until he began one long, intense phone conversation with me out of the blue. He opened up to me in a thousand new ways and began to praise me heavily, giving me an events timeline (???) of when exactly he was feeling more and more personally intimate with me, explaining why I was one of the most important people in the world to him, and telling me that any day I talked to him brightened it immeasurably. This began to make me think that there was some actual hope for a relationship, as not only were these weird things for me to be hearing from a young straight guy (sorry, stereotyping in action, I know), but they seemed to proclaim some sort of intimate exclusivity to our relationship.

Happily following the advice of a gay friend, I did something that I should have done long ago for the wrong reasons, and came out to my close straight male friends (I included James in this category) in hopes of maybe dragging out more information. I thought I had succeeded in this, as James messaged said gay friend less than 24 hours later to tell him that he had “cried” from being so proud and was “so happy” and that he wanted to “ask [me] who [my] love is, because that kind of love should not be withheld.” (Considering I “came out” in what was essentially a custom-locked blog entry that was fairly plain, the extreme emotional rise I got out of him confused me, and it was also weird at the time that the first thing he wanted to talk to me about was who my possibly gay crush was because the love I have to give is apparently just so awesome.) He also heavily began to ramp up contact with me (80+ short e-mails exchanged in two weeks), and every message seemed to be insanely positive and cheerful, which was in opposition to his typical demeanor. Finally, he invited me to make a five-hour trek to the college he was attending to spend the night for no particular reason, and remarked very particularly about the visit (such as suggesting we could sleep in the same bed???). Of course, at this point, I’m thinking: how could this be anything but his method of trying to romantically whisk me away, right?

Wrong. Despite some interesting encounters when I did visit (including being taken to a “special place” to gaze at the stars), when I finally couldn’t hold it in anymore and told him that I was developing, I was shot down by him saying that he wasn’t queer. (Actually, it was more so that I answered the question for him in a self-defeating manner... "I think I like you" ==> "But you can't be gay or bi, right?" I regret not letting him answer the real question.) This crushed me heavily, as I had believed strongly and illogically that there was some serious hope for a positive outcome. I asked him while crying why he had had romantic intercourse with our mutual gay friend, and he replied that he was simply “comfortable with his [straight] sexuality,” which frustrated me to no end. (I would later find out that there was a gay guy at James’s college seriously asking around the gay community if anyone would like to have a no-strings-attached m-m-m threesome including James, which would help foster my later delusions.) We departed on uncertain terms but over the next few days he assured me heavily that this wouldn’t come between us and that we were still as close as ever, if not more so. It hurt, but I steeled myself and worked as hard as I could to try to reorient my affections so that I would be okay with him and so I could try to heal.

When I went home, some uncomfortable things started to happen in the midst of the “business-as-usual” that I was hoping for, things that made it increasingly more difficult for me to start moving on. I started getting a whole deal more physical contact from James than I was used to, which felt strange considering what had happened a few weeks before. This contact included rough-housing, him stripping a shirt off of me, shoulder-to-shoulder-almost-face-to-face closeness at any sitdown event we attended, and lots (LOTS) of leg rubbing. For a two-week period J and I were together for at least 66.6% of the time (including him sleeping over at my house almost every night), which was nice at the same time that it was extremely difficult to deal with emotionally. (This, in part, led to three [!] female friends and one usually dense straight male friend who all knew that I had come out but who were ignorant as to what happened between James and I to ask seriously more or less whether James or I were in a relationship, which stung heavily. How could they be so off-mark while being so, so, close?) A girl he had an infrequent friends-with-benefits relationship with started to do recon in social circles that eventually got back to me as to whether or not James and I had ever been involved, because apparently she had grown suspicious of some “odd remarks” he had made. He also began to make a lot of non-ironic positive remarks about my appearance and how he’d “like to see [my] muscles after [I] bulked up [from weight training]” that also made me very uncomfortable after what had happened. To be perfectly fair, I was largely passive in all of this as I usually am, and was (and barely am now) not in a state where I was able to assert myself well, which is a larger problem I have to deal with.

In the mean-time, I’ve become hypersensitive to the contours of our relationship, and flip out internally over little not-really rejections because I still worry that I’ve destroyed our friendship with my admission, despite evidence to the contrary. Furthermore, this entire time I’ve had to keep an active vigilance over the fantasies that tell me that at the very least he’s heavily closeted and at the extreme end of wishful thinking could have feelings for me someday. I know these are absolutely terrible thoughts to be thinking, which is why I’ve been trying so hard to regulate them. It doesn’t help, though, that aspects of his character (usually embarrassed or ignorant as to his own feelings, self-destructive in romantic entanglements in terms of seeking people who are the opposite of what he professes to desire, history of sexual abuse in his childhood) make it easy for subprocesses in my head to make up a story positing hidden sexual issues. I know this is bad and need to find a way to get it down.

This whole situation is obviously very awkward, but James is going on a vacation out of the country for about a month, which might give me some time to regroup and recuperate. What are some suggestions to help move onto the next stages of getting over my friend? How do I stop driving myself batshit over our relationship? What sorts of things can I tell the delusional little voice in my head to get it to shut up and stop making up crazy stories that are probably supposed to make me feel better, but ultimately just lead to roadblocks to letting go? If, when I get home again, some of the behaviors that discomfort me continue (abnormal physical contact in particular, actually), am I in the right to have a conversation with him about them in the context of me wanting to move past that in our relationship (I worry that this is a no-no, considering I want things to be "normal" and it was my fault for making the situation awkward in the first place)? If so, any suggestions on how to approach this subject? Any other advice to offer in this situation? Thanks!

Throwaway e-mail: delusionsahoy@gmail.com

Dating Etiquette Confusion

cscott — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:15:18 -0800

What is the right dating etiquette after a good first date? Hey everyone,

Sorry to dominate these boards, but I have another question! Say you enjoy a first date with someone, and you're fairly certain you'd like to see them for a second date, what is the proper etiquette?

Do you say, "It was really great to meet you. I had a great time. I'll be in touch," wait two or three days, and then e-mail or call saying you'd like to meet again. Or do you say "I had a really fun time. Would you like to do this again some time soon?" in person after the first date? I realize different people do things differently. I'm just wondering whether there is a standard etiquette in American society for people in their 20s (and 30s).

Thanks!

Corey

How to deal with a messy breakup

cscott — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:17:50 -0800

What do I take away from a messy breakup? Hey everyone,

It's Corey. After a long hiatus, I'm back. My first gay relationship ended two weeks ago. Let me explain the details below. All I'd like is advice on what lessons I should have learned from the whole experience.

So he's 33. I'm 25. We dated for 3.5 months and things were going great. We went on weekend trips together, he introduced me to all his friends (whom he said liked me and were extremely kind to me), and just generally had a good time. For the first few months we only saw each other twice a week because we were both busy and not living together. We had a few minor tiffs here and there. Once, when I was busy with work, and under a lot of stress, I text messaged him for two days in a row instead of calling. He was upset that I didn't call and told me that it wasn't too much to ask to have a brief phone conversation every day. I agreed, apologized profusely, he accepted my apology, and it never came up again. I would joke about our 8-year age difference in front of his friends (who also joked about it and hardly seemed to mind, since it was all in jest). He said it was irritating at times but didn't seem up in arms about it. I made fun of his "love handles" in a teasing way once and he said, "If you think you can make fun of your boyfriend's body in bed before sex, then you have a lot to learn about relationships ... granted, it's your first one." I apologized and he said sorry for being so sensitive about it.

Then, two weeks ago, when we had made plans for me to visit his apartment one evening, I called to confirm whether we were still on. He said that he had to talk to me about something important, and so he went ahead and explained that he'd been searching for a new job around where we live for over a year, but nothing turned up, and so the only real job opportunity that makes sense for where he is in his career is in another, faraway state. He would have to begin that job there in 10 months to a year and would be there for at least three years. Meanwhile, I just started a new job and can't exactly pack up my bags and leave with him. He said that our career paths were incompatible and that he would not be willing to try the long-distance thing because it would be too hard for him and we'd hardly see each other. He told me that if we'd been together for longer than 3.5 months--say, 2 years--a conversation about one or both of us making sacrifices would make sense.

I asked him whether there was anything else he wasn't telling me about the quality of our relationship, about me, about my parents (whom I told about him but who are still struggling with my sexuality and about whom he generally seemed anxious), my friends (some of whom he didn't seem to take a liking to), because even if whatever he told me hurt like hell, at least it would be the truth, and I could potentially learn something from the experience as I go forward. He insisted that his decision was purely practical because he didn't want things to be more traumatic than they needed to be a year later when he would have to move and break things off. He said that it had nothing to do with me or my personality or anything I said or did. I asked him whether he would date anyone in our city before he moves and he said, "Well, if I did, it wouldn't be for the long term, but I haven't thought that far ahead." I didn't say anything in response, but once that phone conversation was over, he called a few hours later to say that he really really really liked me and not to think otherwise.

That whole week was hard. I got numerous e-mails, phone calls, and (on one occasion even drunken) txt messages in which he told me how much he cared for me, how sad he was that we couldn't be together, how he couldn't get over me. He said that this breakup was really difficult for him and that even his best friend was surprised that he was struggling to move past a 3.5 month-long relationship. It seemed that, despite his greater experience in relationships and his age, he was having a harder time with the breakup than I was. A week after the breakup I called him to say I think I could try being friends with him (continuing as close friends was his idea) and he said, good, we should play things by ear and thanks for calling. I texted him on Valentine's Day when I was slightly drunk saying, "Happy Valentine's Day." I felt stupid for doing that, but he responded saying "You too!" and that he noticed that I changed my username on an online dating website we both used (and how we both met in the first place). So then I knew he had seen my profile and he knew that I had seen his, which he reinstated a week after the breakup.

I didn't make much of the fact that he reinstated his profile (he had cancelled it while we were together). I figured maybe he was just lonely and wanted to browse or perhaps he would update things once he was getting ready to move. Two weeks after the breakup, this morning, I noticed that he updated his profile: he added a new photo, changed his headline to say that he was looking for "Mr. Right," changed the lowest age in the age range of men he's seeking from 28 to 30, BUT kept the search parameters for the city we live in, not for the city he's moving to in a year. This all led me to believe that while moving to another city was probably a big part of the reason he dumped me, he hadn't told me the whole truth. Either he would rather date someone here for the short-term before he leaves (it's hard to see how that person could be "Mr. Right") or he's not moving at all and just didn't think I was "Mr. Right." He would rather meet other people than wait things out with me for the next year; he would rather call things off a year early.

I sent him an e-mail this morning calling him out on this. I said it was insensitive and cowardly for him to have broken up with me over the phone. I think a face-to-face conversation was in order. He's an adult and needs to be mature enough to deal with the unpleasantness of it all. Secondly, he obviously didn't have the courage to tell me that the relationship just wasn't working for him quite beyond the fact that he's moving in a year. He had told me early in the relationship that this job in another state was on the horizon and that he was excited about it but that nothing was set in stone so we should keep dating. Never once did we have a conversation about something seriously problematic in our relationship. Nor did he consult me about the (specific) possibility of our relationship ending because of this move; he just made his decision and told me by phone. But obviously if, as per his profile, "Mr. Right" is still in the city we're in and at least 30 years old, then he just didn't think I made the cut for him and he didn't level with me about it.

I told him that he was dishonest for doing so and handled the whole breakup very poorly. I feel insulted, betrayed, and disgusted that after a week of pitiful messages I had to learn that I just wasn't the one for him but that he didn't have the courage to tell me. I told him very specifically on the phone when he was breaking up with me to tell me the cold, bitter truth. That would have been so much better than hearing something sugarcoated, only to learn the nauseating truth two weeks later. I understand that we all hide some of the truth in situations like these to avoid hurting people's feelings, but I told him very specifically over the phone that I'd rather he do that than tell me something else which was a lie. My words were, "Please don't hesitate simply out of a desire to avoid hurting my feelings."

I actually said in my e-mail that I do not want to continue as friends with him, that I forgive him, wish him the best, and good bye. I don't know how to look at all this any other way. I can't believe he led me to think he really cared about me for so long only to be dick enough to update his profile like that knowing full well that I would see it. Now, I modified my profile too, but I'm not moving and will be in this city for quite a while; that's a key difference. Also, I feel insulted that he would rather date other people in our city for the next year rather than stay with me. Perhaps he is planning to change the profile parameters to the city he's moving to in the next few days (or whenever) but it's hard to see why he would begin looking for potential dates in a faraway state he's moving to a year ahead of time. It seems to me that, no matter how you slice this, he's the villain.

My question is, what do I take away from all of this? I feel so disappointed in myself for not seeing any of this coming. I thought he was such a great guy. I never thought anyone I was growing to care and love for could do something so contradictory, confusing, and hurtful.

Thanks,

Corey

Am I getting strung along?

cscott — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:47:17 -0800

Am I getting strung along or should I wait this out? Hi everyone,

Corey here again. My question today is in reference to my previous post about whether my meeting with a certain guy was a date. It seemed that most of you thought it was a date. Well, let me give you an overview what has developed since then.

We met for dinner for 2 hours in the city he just left and enjoyed each other's company. His response was that he looked forward to more fascinating conversations in the future. I took this to mean that a second date was not out of the question. Well, now he has moved to my city and we have begun working as colleagues. We've met a total of two or three times, sometimes alone to go over work and sometimes in the presence of other co-workers to talk about not-for-profit issues (our field), how his transition is going to a new city, and so on. He's a very friendly guy in general, he makes a lot of eye contact with me, smiles, touches me on the side of my shoulder from time to time while conversing, and for the few days that we've spent at work, he seemed to be seeking out my company. Well, since I thought things seemed to be going well, I would inquire to see whether he's interested in a second date. So I e-mailed him asking him that I felt somewhat embarrassed asking, but that clarity is better than ambiguity in certain situations and would you like to meet up again at some point? If not, that's perfectly fine, and I hope we can remain good friends throughout our time at work.

His response was that clarity and communication are good things. He says he would like to get to know me better because he's enjoyed my company and already sees potential to be good friends. There is possibly the potential for more than that but two factors are holding him back. One is that he has just moved to a new city and has only related some of the stresses and worries involved in doing so. His housing situation is a mess and his parents are still with him visiting. He said it would be a few weeks before he settles down and gets out of "survival" mode and being emotionally closed. The other issue is that we're colleagues and will be working together. He said that while we're both adults and are capable of separating our professional and personal lives, he generally feels that it is a good policy to keep the two separate. This feeling is not an insurmountable barrier, especially if we really click, but in the interest of clarity, he wants to be up front with the way he feels. He then said we should sit down soon to talk about these issues. He's really busy right now but next week he'd like to chat.

So, my question is, do I go with this at face value, which is that dating is not out of the question if we sit down and discuss our concerns ... or, am I just supposed to take a hint that he's not interested and that he is just telling me "No" in a roundabout, complicated way. I don't know him that well yet, but he's so nice and friendly, that it's hard for me to imagine that he would string me along by saying "Maybe, and let's talk" because that would really be a cowardly way to turn someone down.

Your thoughts would be most appreciated, as always. Thanks!

Corey

Trouble on a "First Date"

cscott — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:12:55 -0800

Was it a first date? Can I expect a second date? Hi everyone,

It's me, Corey. You might remember some of my posts a few months ago about whether to call a guy you like but don't know well and about what it's like to be gay and in love with a straight guy. Well, I've made some more progress. I'm out and exploring the dating scene a little bit. I'd like everyone's advice about something that happened recently.

So, I met this gay guy at an early orientation session for the company I work at several months ago. He'll be starting work there in my division in about a month. We were having wine and cheese and chatting about our mutual interest in not-for-profit work. Eventually, I e-mailed him and found out that he's gay. We exchanged our stories and impressions about what it's like to be gay and in your 20s. He actually lives far away (finishing up the job he's about to quit) so after a while we lost touch on e-mail. But recently I was in the town he lives in (he'll be moving to the city where I live and work in a month) and sent him an e-mail asking if he wants to meet for coffee.

He responded saying he's busy traveling but suggested coffee or dinner. I agreed to dinner. He wrote back saying he had to change the original day he'd planned because something came up and he had to meet "another friend" later that day. When I saw that I wondered if he'd already written me off as just a friend, but I wasn't sure because technically we weren't even really friends (beyond a brief in-person conversation several months ago and a few e-mails) so I didn't make a huge deal about it. When we finally met, he drove to pick me up where I was staying, which was very sweet. He looked quite well-dressed, though the flip-flops were a bit casual. He seemed happy to see me again and we drove to a restaurant and chatted for over two hours on various topics: politics, religion, our mutual work interests, we laughed quite a bit, got each other's sense of humor, and he even mentioned that when he moves to the city I'm in, he'd have me meet his parents who are helping him move in.

As on any first date, there were a few awkward moments. I ordered the dish he proposed. It was good, but after a while, it was almost too salty. Having completely forgotten that he recommended the dish, at one point, I calmly said, "I can't have any more of this, it's a bit too salty" to which he said, "Oh, sorry." I felt embarrassed and said "No no, this restaurant is quite nice" to try to make up for being slightly rude. At the end of the date, he drove me back to where I was staying and rather than just dropping me off and saying good-bye, he pulled over to the curb and turned the car off. We chatted for about another half hour about what life is like in the city we'll be living and working in, what the nightlife is like, cultural activities, and how we'd balance work with leisure. He seemed interested in being friends at least. I felt some sexual tension but I can't be sure he felt it too. I closed the "date" somewhat coldly because I wasn't even entirely sure whether he considered it a date and wasn't going to try to kiss him (I'm not sure that's appropriate for a first date anyway). I shook his hand and said thanks for a great time and I'll see you soon. He said we should definitely hang out in the city once he gets there.

When I walked back to my friend's place where I was staying I felt bad about closing the date so nervously so I e-mailed him right away saying: "Hi, Thanks again for taking time out of a busy schedule to meet with me. I had a really great time :) Let me know if you want to meet up again once you get to the city. Enjoy the rest of your summer!" The following morning, he responded saying, "Hi Corey, You are quite welcome; it was great to spend the evening with you. I look forward to more fascinating conversations in the future; I will certainly let you know when I get to the city!"

So, my questions are: Was this a date? It felt like a date. We're both gay and single. We were alone at dinner getting to know each other. If it was a date, should I expect a second date? I felt that we had a good time, there were hardly any moments of silence; we talked about everything and seemed to understand each other quite well. If I were to go by the date, minus a few awkward moments, I'd say things went well. But do you think his e-mail response is positive or tentative? Normally, for a second date, people ask what the other person is doing next weekend, or about a new movie, etc. That doesn't apply here because he's not going to be in my city for another month and it would be a bit much to make specific plans that far in advance. Yes, I plan to wait till then to get a better sense about him and yes I HATE overanalyzing things but a part of me wants to know whether I even have a shot at a second date with this guy. I apologize for the lengthy post but your thoughts are most welcome! Hopefully, putting this in perspective will help me stop thinking about it so much.

Corey

He gave me his number, so do I call?

cscott — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:23:30 -0800

Does he want me to call him? Or should I wait for him to respond to an e-mail? Hello everyone,

You might remember me as the gay guy who's young, who recently came out, and put himself through some unnecessary suffering by dealing with guys whose sexual orientation was ambiguous. Well, I've made progress! I met a guy who is openly gay, but I wanted to hear what people think about the tricky situation I face. (Yes, it seems that I'm always in a mess! ;)

Alright, so I met this guy who's three years older than me, gay, and single at a formal gathering for prospective student admits for an academic program. We have similar research interests and other things in common. I noticed he was rather friendly and smiley around me, imitating some of my nervous tics (head-scratching while explaining things, for instance), so the thought that he's gay crossed my mind. Later that day, I sent him an e-mail saying it was great to meet, I'd like to know where his research takes him, and that we should keep in touch. No response. We met again the following day at another small gathering and chatted some more. Then, he responded by e-mail later that day, saying that it was a pleasure to meet, that I would excel in the program, and that he's glad that "two like-minded souls" might be studying at the same place next year but that he's not sure whether he'll be coming to that institution. He then asked for recommended reading on a certain topic.

I responded in kind and had found out through a social networking website that he's gay (yes, I'm sneaky), so at the end of that e-mail I said that I felt bad asking him since I've only just met him, but "are you gay?" I said I was asking because I recently came out to my socially conservative family and it's been a rather difficult experience and would like to hear other gay folks' stories to see if I might take something away from them. He responded saying it was no trouble that I was asking him a personal question, that he is gay and has been out for 7 years. He told me a little bit about how his parents struggled with it at first but joined an organization that helped them come to terms with his homosexuality. He said that he wished he could give better advice because he hasn't felt the need to hide his being gay from his family or friends. Then, he said he'd be happy to talk about this, that it would help to blow off some steam, but that he was about to leave for a two-week vacation, was rushed and scattered but would perhaps be more responsive after his trip. At the end of the e-mail, he left his cell phone number.

Now, since I found him attractive, I gave into my feelings and wrote back saying it's very nice of him to help out someone he barely knows. I said we should chat when he gets back from vacation, but it might help to give some background to my situation. I then proceeded to describe my story in several paragraphs, candidly, honestly ... too honestly (I mentioned, for example, that I'm a virgin ... yes, VERY bad idea, don't ask me why I did that). At the end, I said, that's basically my story and we can talk about it all when he returns and that I hope he has fun on his trip. Then, to make things worse, a few hours later, I sent another (albeit very brief, just two sentences) e-mail asking him whether he could answer any questions a friend of mine (applying to the company where he works) may have about the company and cc'ed my friend on it. Back-to-back e-mails to someone you've met twice: another social blunder. Anyway, almost three weeks have passed since then and I know he's back, but I haven't heard from him by e-mail.

My question: If someone leaves you their cell number in an e-mail (not in person), does that mean it's just there for "reference" or that they want (or at least expect) you to call them? Since we were corresponding all along by e-mail and since we don't know each other well, I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to wait for him to respond before I call (or at least touch base again by e-mail). It seems like a situation of mixed signals ... he left his number but he hasn't gotten back in touch since he's returned. He might just be busy. I may have scared him away by giving too much information when I responded with my coming out story in a fit of excitement. Obviously, it's impossible for anyone to know what he's thinking. I just wanted to know what people thought of the proper social etiquette in this situation ... Thanks!

Corey

P.S. I don't know whether he's interested in me, and I don't even know whether we'll be studying at the same institution next year, but I figure the only way to find out is to have a conversation. At worst, I would have made a friend with whom I have quite a bit in common. Again, just want to get the etiquette right here, especially since I screwed up big time by sharing that I'm a virgin and by sending back-to-back e-mails (even if on unrelated topics).

How do I find out whether he likes me?

cscott — Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:28:42 -0800

Is he gay like me? Will it work out? The messy process of coming out ... Hi everyone,

I'm facing a dilemma in my life right now and I could use some general advice. I am 23 years old, a virgin, and just recently came out of the closet to my socially conservative Christian parents (as well as two liberal-minded, supportive friends). I used to be quite religious and when I had my first crush on a guy in college, I opted for "ex-gay" reparative therapy to no avail. Five years later, after experiencing romantic feelings for a guy slightly younger than me over the summer, I realized I had no other way of finding happiness except by coming out of the closet and leading a gay life. But things are still complicated.

The guy I met over the summer at an academic study program is attractive, smart, funny, friendly, etc. I really felt in the first few weeks that he was taking an interest in me that was more than platonic by staring me down (it seemed like he was checking me out) on more than one occasion. When we finally got to introducing ourselves to each other and talking, I sensed that he was quite interested with what I was doing with my life in general (though at this stage neither of us mentioned relationships). When I added him as a friend on a social network site, I saw that he was in a relationship with a girl. At that point, I told myself I must have been wrong and that maybe he was just staring at me in a completely platonic manner. It happens sometimes.

But that's exactly when things started to get rather tense and awkward between us. The remainder of the summer involved jealous competition in academic terms mostly from his end: it seemed that he was often trying to prove that he was better than me at the subjects being studied. There were days when I would say hello and though he would be standing right in front of me and hardly preoccupied, he refused to respond. The following day, as if to make up for being rude, he would be very chatty and friendly. Things went back and forth like this. Sometimes he seemed flattered that I was conversing with him one on one; he would turn bright red in the face and smile. The staring continued and there were times when he'd return my glances with a deliberate grin. If I was ever in a bad mood, he seemed slightly hurt by my being cold and I felt that I had to say something nice or neutralizing to let him know that I wasn't upset with him. Towards the end of the summer, he would openly compliment my choice of dress and seemed keen on eating dinner at the same table as me and even seemed intent on following me to wherever I would go after dinner. I also observed that he would reciprocate a lot of different behaviors. If I brushed him on the shoulder gently to say Hi, he'd do the same a day or a few days later; if he saw that another friend of mine was dumping his muffin crumbs in my tray because that person didn't use a tray, he would do the same the following day; if I was in a bad mood and wasn't cheerful when saying hello, he'd be just as cold shortly afterwards; and so on. Towards the end of the summer, he seemed to be indirectly asking me about my sexual orientation: he asked me whether I frequent a certain part of the town I live in that is known as a gay hotspot, and later, in a broad conversation about relationships, he asked me rather abruptly what I wanted with my life at that moment. When I mentioned that I haven't had as much independence as I would like because of my parents' conservative expectations, he seemed insistent on reminding me that I know what I want and that's really what counts. Of course, since I wasn't emotionally ready to come out, and since I knew he had a girlfriend, I just said I wasn't ready for a relationship and needed to figure out what to do with my life career-wise. He seemed impressed by my artistic capabilities since he has an appreciation for the performing arts himself. One day, he was sitting on a couch studying and I ran into him and started talking about different things. When I was about to leave for my room, he seemed disheartened and placed his hand on the spot next to him to indicate that I should sit there and study with him. Since my feelings for him had been growing all along, I was nervous a lot of the time and politely said I should return to my room to get work done. I felt bad about that later and returned to his study spot and just continued to talk about different things. When a mutual friend of ours randomly brought up the issue of gay marriage and how she believed that two men or women who love each other should have every right to happiness, we both looked at her as neutrally and placidly as possible, and then looked at each other at the exact same moment as though we both suspected that the topic being discussed was personally relevant to both of us. The tension was palpably thick.

I could go on with other examples. I really got the sense that he was probably in the closet (at the very least bisexual) since the behavior I observed tends to be associated with behaviors resulting from an attraction. Of course, it's also possible that he's just a sensitive, competitive straight guy with whom I had some very awkward personal chemistry. Two months after the summer ended, his girlfriend left him. They had been planning an elaborate vacation for the winter holidays but those plans got scrapped. He told me about two months afterwards about what had happened and admitted that he was still in denial about the whole thing and that he would "check back" with me later. I couldn't help but wonder whether what had happened over the summer had anything to do with his girlfriend of two years suddenly deciding to walk out on him. He never struck me as the kind of guy that cheats (though, admittedly, she could have left him for any number of reasons). I'd say the two most important pieces of evidence against everything I'm saying is 1) that he has never once initiated communication with me electronically (he's geographically too far for in-person communication) since the summer ended, though whenever I got in touch with him, he was always warm and friendly and occasionally seemed really happy that I was talking to him. At one point, when I mentioned my plans for next year, he said, "Maybe we won't be that far apart. At least compared to now anyway. lol" and 2) that he mentioned that he was looking forward to traveling to the location he and his ex-girlfriend had been planning to visit. Of course, the fact that he's had a girlfriend for so long would have made me write him off from the very beginning except that, as I said, it was after I found out that he had a girlfriend that I began to see signs of a possible romantic attraction.

The good news is I'm planning to meet him in person in a short while (and he seemes excited about this) and I mentioned to him that I needed a chance to talk to him in private at some point. He agreed. I plan to have a conversation which involves me telling him that I'm gay, that I fell for him over the summer, and that I also thought there were at least a few reasons for me to believe that the feelings were mutual. I might be wrong about him being gay or bisexual, but I'm also positive that he sensed that I was attracted to him (because I could see how uncomfortable this made almost on a daily basis). So, I don't think he'll be super-shocked to hear that I'm gay or even that I was attracted to him. On the other hand, the bit about the feelings being mutual is rather heavy, awkward stuff for a conversation with someone who is at the present time just a friend. I realize that I risk endangering our friendship with this conversation and I plan to tell him this very frankly at the outset. I sense that he knows that this conversation is coming. My question to all of you is, how should I go about the conversation? If I just say I'm gay and avoid bringing up the issue of my feelings or his feelings, then the conversation will revolve around me: I'll be doing all the talking about coming out, religion, conservative parents, etc. and he'll be doing all the listening. But the point is to get him to talk and tell me once and for all whether he was or is interested in a relationship. I've waited for months and I need to move on with my life by getting either resolution or closure on this matter. This is why I feel I have to bring up what I thought unfolded over the summer and let him do most of the talking. Your advice would be greatly appreciated =)

Corey

Three weeks to conquer a man's heart

doctorpiorno — Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:23:45 -0800

[Gayfilter] I have a huge crush on a guy I've dated once, and he's moving abroad in three weeks' time. How can I let him know I desperately want to keep seeing him without coming across as a psycho? Hello, Hive Mind. This is going to be one of those questions with a ton of background, so please bear with me. I need your advice.

At the beginning of August I met a guy on the Internet, a strong contender for the title of most wonderful guy ever. We went on a date soon afterwards, which I enjoyed immensely, and I have reasons to believe he did as well.

Now, this hasn't happened to me before, but I have an incredible gut feeling about him. It's actually a bit scary: like, a few months before I had this running joke with my friends about "The Plan", a ludicrously detailed scheme to meet the guy of my dreams, which outlined the exact requirements in what I believed to be "amusingly elaborate levels of accuracy". Well, I'll be damned, but it's him - seriously, down to the smallest detail, it really is that bad. Needless to say, I have developed a huge crush on him. Not quite obsession-grade, mind, but far beyond the typical range of feelings my calm, collected self.

Problem is, he's leaving the UK to work abroad in about three weeks' time. I desperately want to know him better and try to confirm that first impression, but he's understandably quite busy preparing his trip and seeing his friends - we have kept in touch by e-mail, but I think I may only get one more shot at seeing him before he leaves, if at all. That's going to be my only window of opportunity to let him know that he's quite a bit more than a random shag to me. If I could open up a chance to remain in touch and possibly visit him once he's settled, I'm pretty sure I could take it from there, but I somehow need to get my proverbial foot in the door.

So, basically, I need ideas. I obviously need to do something about this, but how can I make him aware of my feelings without coming across as a raving madman or, at best, as an uncomfortably gushy species of loon with serious attachment issues? Any suggestions on how to deal with this would be highly appreciated; I’m at a bit of a loss on how to proceed.

Similarly, if you do believe I am a gushy loon with attachment issues, please let me know as well - I am well aware that I'm getting quite ahead of myself at this stage and that I may well need a reality check, so I come prepared for the worst.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Moving to Marry in Massachusetts

alms — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:16:02 -0800

Are there any documented cases of gay men or lesbians moving to Massachusetts to take advantage of our marriage laws? Has anyone written profiles of people or couples who have done this?

Help me get out of this closet before the house burns down!

Anonymous — Wed, 31 May 2006 17:27:21 -0800

I've never dated a girl before. Where do I start? Oh, and I am one, too... I've suspected myself of being a lesbian for a long time and am definitely attracted to women, but I wouldn't feel comfortable coming out without any actual experience to validate this. In the meantime, it seems incredibly awkward, and even selfish, to initiate anything with someone who is more experienced and certain of themselves - as though it were her responsibity to wait for me to figure everything out and get off my training wheels (I can imagine I probably wouldn't want to waste my time with someone who was just experimenting, either). I feel this anxiety equally when thinking about the possibility of a casual sexual encounter or a relationship. I've also noticed the term "curiosity" used with a distinctly negative connotation on many gay websites, etc. which makes me feel less than welcome, in addition to being ashamed of my general ignorance and ineptitude concerning, um, everything involved. I also have the (wrong?) impression that most people realize they're gay in the context of an attraction to a specific person, and things follow naturally from there; it seems less clear how to go about it the other way round.

More background info: A couple people have asked whether or simply assumed I was gay previously, but I've only recently started to acknowledge it myself. I'm generally a shy and introverted person, so I already have some difficulty meeting people and entering into new social situations, especially point-blank, and I don't have anyone else who's openly gay in my social circle at the moment (which is actually quite small, because I've moved recently). I've gone to a couple lesbian events (monthly "parties" at local bars) but freaked out and ran away before I could start relaxing and meeting people. There's really no one I'd feel comfortable bringing along to future events like this for moral support, either. I also don't live in an area with any gay coffee shops or more casual meeting places. Oh yeah, and I have pretty long hair.

So, my questions are, roughly, the following:

1) Is "curiosity" generally tolerated as little as I fear, and if so, how should I go about resolving it?

2) How can I get a date without taking advantage of someone (or at least feeling like I am) by inflicting my n00b-ness on them?

3) How does dating work in general for lesbians? What should I be doing to send out the right signals, and what should I be watching for? And what happens next?

This question is meant to be as broad as possible. I feel like this is going to be adolescence all over again - or like that "40-year-old virgin" movie. Not pleasant. I'll be grateful for any information and advice that might make it easier.

Between a rock and a hard place.

kzin602 — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:07:13 -0800

How do I get my (abusive?) boyfriend out of my life? I am a 25 year old decent looking guy in a relationship with a guy my age, I knew he had some confidence/trust issues but letely they have come to a head...

He uses a Mac computer normally but when he is at my house he uses my windows based machine, in my internet explorer history he found a porn popup and assumed that I was looking at straight porn.(this is while I was at work)

He left the apartment (that I pay all rent on) and went out drinking and got home just before I got home at half past midnight.

When I got home he confronted me and I tried to explain pop-ups to him, even opened the warez site I was at that opens a ton of windows. He ended up becoming more and more aggressive and started slapping. I did not lay a hand on him and only raised up my arms to cover my face. By the end of the night my roomates convinced him to leave... I had a black eye and he twisted my glasses into a ball of wire, on his way out he stole all my contact lenses except for a couple pairs that were still in the boxes left from moving in.

He showed up the next night and I let him back.

Anyways the same situation happened again and he ended up grabbing my cell-phone and breaking it in half as I was attempting to call a (straight) friend to get a place to crash for the night.

I tell him to leave, I BEG him to leave and he always shows up. I go to school at 8AM and work until Midnight so I don't have the time to deal with this drama.

I cannot physically force him out because he is stronger and a good fighter. I cannot call the police because per the terms of my lease he is not suppost to be there at all (not to mention my roomies smoke weed and i don't want to bust them)... I am at my wits and sanity's end..

Anybody ever been stuck in a similar situation?

They aren't really from Mars, are they?

hyperfascinated — Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:48:55 -0800

FormerLesbianFilter: Can you give me any insight about men and/or the way men think and function? I'm now in the 9th month of my first serious heterosexual relationship, and while both the relationship and the guy are awesome, it's been striking just how different it is doing the relationship-dance with a male. At times I feel like I really don't know what the heck I'm doing- I feel quite aware that I haven't been practicing this since the age of 13 like most women have.

So, for men:
What do you wish yr partner understood about you or men in general?

For those of you who love men:
What have yr relationships taught you about interacting with men?

Can anybody recommend a book that might be helpful to me?

Finding Gay People to Date

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:11:38 -0800

I'm an still-in-the-closet (but perhaps soon to be out) gay man in his early 20s. What are the best ways to meet good-hearted, intelligent, and personable gay men in Boston (or generally), people who are interested in relationships and not just quick hookups?

How can I find a boyfriend in the gay community while still being myself?

Anonymous — Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:41:50 -0800

I'm a gay male in my early thirties nearing my sixth year of singlehood, and long since ready to be with someone. However, I've had the hardest time trying to relate to the the gay community. I'm a bit eccentric and will often go to the gay club to write and probably get too wordy with personal ads. It seems that emotional and spiritual depth, along with a lack of care about materialism, just doesn't jibe with the "gay mainstream." My question is this: how can I continue my joyously weird existance, and attract the right person, without diminishing my personality and belief system? What sacrifices must I make with my 'kookiness' and still be me? Thanks!