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Help! Need advice for giving friend advice!!

Hydrofiend — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:24:00 -0800

How do I tell my friend the truth in a way that she can hear it, then take what she can from it and do what feels right to her? One of my closest and dearest friends believes me to be insightful and intuitive. I believe the same of her. She's been dating someone who she hoped I would meet and give her my "take" on because she feels I will not only be honest but be correct in my assessment. I met him this weekend. I LOVE her, she is my dog, my ace, my girl, the person I can tell all kinds of crazy shit to without judgement (I am very lucky to have her as a friend.) Love for the dude, not so much. Well, not that I don't like him...here's the story, backwards. My first impression is he's nice...to her. He is very attentive, stares at her with stars in his eyes and clearly wants to be a husband and daddy. It's obvious he wants to fill her every desire or need. To me, he's trying way too hard and that it might come from a place of desperation. Spending time with him, I feel he thinks she will save him in some way. From his demons or fear of being alone....I don't know. My issue is that I'm not sure whether his desire has anything to do with my friend as a person or if that's his goal and he's gonna get it however he can. I know she has the same concern but it's difficult to turn down someone who wants to wash your dishes and make love to you until the cows come home even though you are not sure whether you want that with them in the long run.
The thing is, my friend deserves to have someone look at her with stars in his eyes. She deserves someone who wants to make babies with her. She deserves all that she desires but.....homeboy seems a little off to me. He seems to have a fantasy in his head about whatever it is he thinks a relationship should be and, to me, that's not fair to my friend. She is fantastic sans fantasy and deserves someone who sees that. I get that we all have an idea of what it is we think we want when we think about loving someone for the rest of our lives but shouldn't that be based on the actual person whom we are thinking of spending the rest of our lives with? ("Starry Eyes" has expressed his love for her, his desire to live with and make a life with her....all good things if both people feel the same way. Not to mention they've known each other for about 6 months. The 1st few wrought with some drama, see below.)

OK, some of the messiness:

Their shit:
-My friend got out of a 2.5 year relationship shortly after meeting "Starry Eyes". (like literally a few weeks. She wasn't looking but apparently he was and he persued her consistently)

-She still has unresolved feelings for her ex and has made that clear to "Starry Eyes". She's been working through it but for the past months also beginning a relationship with "Starry Eyes".

-"Starry Eyes" was engaged in an open relationship when persuing my friend. (but apparently "open" meant just fucking, not falling in love)

-When he got caught with my friend by his fiance, he ended his engagement-the confrontation ended it, went into therapy and moved out. (He has subsequently made other decisions for My friend, complying to her wants and desires. Good on a whole but troublesome in that he didn't make these choices on his own , prior to meeting her)

-My friend has been honest with him about where she's at in terms of being in a relationship. He has told her he will wait.

My Shit:
-I'm fresh out of a stream of jacked up relationships, some involving infidelity on both ends. I'm pretty sensitive about the subject and can smell shenanigans a mile away now that I recognize the hows and whys to relationships involving such behavior.

-I'm a little jaded right now and not really feeling like I know jack shit about how to make a healthy relationship happen (in therapy thank you very much.)

-I've been in situations similar and have since realized that although shit like this happens, is bound to happen in your late 30's, it doesn't mean that you HAVE to build a relationship based on such shit. And, if you do choose to, all parties need to be clear and communicative.

My friend wants my input and advice. She asked me what I thought when "Starry Eyes"wasn't around and I told her not to ask just yet. She knows me and I know her-well. It's gonna be a long conversation. She's been grappling with her thoughts about this relationship for a while now. I love her and want to be honest with her but am trying to figure out the best way to say what I mean given my own issues right now. I know life can be grey and messy. Things are not always clear-cut and tied with a pretty bow. But I am still working through my own shit to discover what that all means to me.

I tend to romanticize in general but am in a real realist mood. How can I communicate to her what I sense about "Starry Eyes" yet express to her that it is clouded by my own sense of romantic relationships right now? Who knows, they may make it through and decide to move on in relationship. I just don't want my input to make her make a decision that might not be right for her but I also want her to pick up what I'm putting down. Oy! Help!!!

"What are you doing?" "I'm ending our friendship." NOOOOO!

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:34:59 -0800

Help! Can I salvage this friendship even after experiencing the searing pain of rejection? (CAUTION: lengthy beanplating)

Okay. About six months ago, I posted a smart, sassy personal ad under "strictly platonic" on the local Craigslist (not in the US) seeking someone to talk to, hang out with, with the intention of expanding my social circles and being introduced to someone else's social circle. It was w4m since most of my friends (maybe 90%) are girls and I don't have enough guy friends. Having never used CL before, I was surprised by the caliber of responses, mostly coming from interesting, articulate people, and ended up hanging out with someone who really did turn into a friend, and corresponded with a couple more who were local, but were currently assigned elsewhere for work.

Enter: The Man I Speak Of. Despite being an American in America and being over a decade older than me and never having made a friend over the Internet before, he replied to my ad. He had been to my city some years ago, and he worked in the airline industry and so could pretty much fly anywhere. Now, of course, being a MeFite and having been a nethead for 14 years, I am no stranger to online interactions with people from around the world, and upon the requisite Googlestalking, he seemed to be everything he said he was, so I thought, what the hey, why not? He wasn't the best speller, but he still seemed articulate, had a questioning mind, liked to think on his feet, an extrovert, was also interested in books and movies and music, and best of all, he was extremely funny and there was a certain je ne sais quoi in the way he wrote that just made his personality jump off the page. (I'm sure you can see where this is going.) Our highly enthusiastic e-mails escalated in frequency to daily, and eventually we also started chatting daily (with the occasional voice chat). At one point we were chatting twice a day for hours, despite the time differences: when I woke up and he was getting ready for bed, and when he woke up and I was getting ready for bed. We would even chat when he was traveling. If we couldn't chat, he would e-mail or leave an offline message, some little nugget for me to find. (Data point: he was on extended leave from work, and I was between jobs.) I can't even remember what we talked about, mostly getting-to-know-you stuff and common interests I suppose. He would jokingly censor himself when I complained that he ranted too much. We had a strange relationship. It was still strictly platonic on the surface, even somewhat paternal, but clearly we were getting very attached to each other. Eventually, we decided that this wasn't very healthy, and decided to cut back to chatting only once a day. The next time he traveled, he didn't bring his laptop. He started attending adult classes and working on a writing project, so he would have some accomplishments to show for when he comes back from his leave. Good, right?

Three months into it, I'm not sure how, our voice chat turned somewhat flirtatious when he complimented my voice and my laugh. I was flattered, and of course I really liked him, but I wasn't sure if I could put any stock into it, since we hadn't met. He had sent me his picture, but while he wasn't unattractive, I wasn't sure if I was attracted to it, or to him physically, so I kept myself in check. Then, maybe a week later, he started acting strange and distant. I didn't catch him online for days, and he didn't leave any notes. It seemed like he was avoiding me. So then I ask what's up, and he goes "What am I going to do with you?" Then he admited that he had a drinking problem, that he couldn't lie to me, that he had been thinking hard about it because he wanted to be more than friends, that he knew he could be very charming, but that he didn't want me to make any emotional investment in him without knowing this very huge thing and he was worried I would write him off.

Well, dear MeFites, I didn't write him off but I also didn't know how to handle the bomb he dropped. (I mean, up until this worldly older man, I had mostly been involved with geeky types, engineer types, and sensitive indie musician types.) I really, really, really liked him, but I told him that it was something I could handle if we were friends, but that it would definitely be a problem if we were to be more than friends. So, we stayed friends, and of his own volition, he started seeing a doctor and going to AA meetings. I tried to be very, very supportive and help him stay positive. He had previously kicked his smoking habit, I knew he could do it. The tenor of our conversations changed: deeper, more serious. We both expressed a desire to lighten up, but for some reason it would constantly tip towards the heavy end.

In spite of myself, I started to develop feelings for him. Rationally, I knew it wasn't a good idea, but I couldn't help feeling tender and affectionate after he showed such vulnerability. I started becoming uncomfortable with the nature of his friendship with an attractive married colleague he had a crush on, and even more uncomfortable that he vaguely implied having had "friends with benefits" and outright upset at the possibility of him jumping on an opportunity if it arose. Yet I didn't necessarily want to be "with" him and it felt unfair, I didn't own him. But I liked him a lot and felt very attached to him. He had asked me out to see a certain movie and he planned on coming to my city for a week, but that no longer seemed to be on the horizon (he said it would be December at the soonest) given all the things he wanted to do (lose weight, attend more classes, do the 90 meetings in 90 days in AA, complete the writing project), and so we chatted less and less.

And then the disaster happened. I won't give any details because I don't want to turn this into a pity party, but a major natural disaster ravaged the region, and we were pretty badly hit. I sought him out for comfort, and he in turn was supportive towards me. He seemed to really want to help, but realistically there was nothing I could ask him to do.

I lost my Internet, and we no longer chatted regularly. Then I learned to tether my mobile phone and logged on more, but he would no longer go online at the "regular" times, unless we set up a time to chat. But even when we set up a time to chat, and I would be late for a few minutes because I had trouble connecting or grabbed a bite before logging on, he would not wait for me like he used to, now that I didn't have a constant connection. One time, just to prove my hunch, I was online right on the dot and stayed invisible. He was late, stayed online for 3 minutes, and left without leaving an offline message or e-mail. I felt him growing cold. Maybe he lost interest. Maybe there was someone else. He did say there was a woman he liked who he wanted to be his sponsor, but according to AA rules it had to be another man. I asked him to tell me if something was up. He said the only thing that had changed was his schedule, that he couldn't keep up the same hours he used to, and that it would be the same if he went back to work.

A month after the disaster, I was grasping at straws, I couldn't stand it anymore. I wrote him a longish e-mail explaining why I was acting strange, that I felt that I was losing him, that I felt confused and may have feelings for him, that I missed him, and lighter times. I said that I had to lay low for a while, and maybe later on I would be back to my rational self and be happy for him and the new developments in his life. I told him he didn't have to reply. Well, he did reply and say that he could go online at 9:00am his time the next day. So I went online and waited. And waited. And waited. An hour later, he was still not online, so I fired off a line about how it was getting ridiculous. He e-mailed back and apologized for forgetting, noted that I seemed mad, and said that since I kept late hours, he thought he might still catch me. I said that it was just that after I had sent that embarrassing e-mail, going online to chat with him felt like having to face the firing squad, and that when he didn't show up, I felt like an idiot, but that I meant it that he didn't have to reply. (I partly wished he wouldn't, as I wanted it to be a swan song of sorts.) He sent a couple of e-mails a few days apart, pretending to work on a response, and when the actual "response" came (a one-word text file) I wondered if he was just dicking me around or if it was part of a running gag between us (him building up something which ends up being nothing, applied to jokes, anecdotes, faux documents). However, I was too sore about previous events that I didn't dignify it with a response until two weeks later, just one line. He asked me how a trip I took was. I replied with just information about the trip and nothing more. Since then, silence.

It hurts so much.

I know, I know, I know, it was a stupid thing to do and this only means he doesn't feel the same, and he has offered no reassurance. I can't seem to get it into my head that even though he once indicated he wanted to be more than friends, he no longer feels the same way.

I can't stop thinking about him. Why am I so attracted to his words? It feels like an addiction, and I'm experiencing withdrawal. But I know that even I got what I wanted, it would still be unhealthy, that continuing to chat with him would be an incredibly bad idea for both of us. I know I need to stay away. Yet I do still want to be friends with this man. I still value his insights and opinions, and I like him a lot as a person regardless of all that has happened.

How do I deal with my feelings for him?
How do I make it hurt less?
Most importantly, how can I save our friendship?

I am at the end of my rope. I don't know what to do.

Is it depression and am I making it worse?

brisquette — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:10:57 -0800

Every night that he comes home and winds up browsing the internet for hours, I feel like I'm going to scream. Am I a nagging worrywort, is my boyfriend mildly depressed, or both? And what's the best way to work on it? My boyfriend (Charles) and I have lived together for about two and half years, since he moved to this state. We were thick as thieves to begin with, but as our relationship nicely mellowed we became more okay with not spending all of our time together. However, way back in January we had a discussion about how he needs to reach out and find his own community of some sort. He then had some dramatic medication-related mental health issues that pushed that goal to a back burner while we tangled with the craziness, but around middle of summer stuff felt like it was back to normal, and the lack of friends and interests became an issue.

I feel like Charles doesn't have any friends, really. There's one guy (Joe) who he chats with sometimes who shares a similar background (computer stuff, history, online gaming), but that guy has a freelance sort of web business and I get the impression that they could be closer buddies if Joe wasn't so busy.

I think part of the not-having-friends thing is rooted deeper in a lack of interests. Recently, it seems like unless I make something happen (plan dinner, arrange events), he won't do anything except be on the computer. I'm pretty sure he doesn't play WOW or anything anymore, and it's just random browsing and searches that he uses as a path of least resistance to his evenings.

The last couple of things we did with other people didn't seem to go that well. We went to a large dinner last weekend, and although I know he's not as chatty as I am, even when we were in a circle of three people whose conversation showed them to be funny, nerdy, and non-judgemental, Charles' answers to their questions were flat and monosyllabic, almost. A couple of friends we've hung out with several times were over at our house, and as one of them fixed our guitar (which Charles has talked about learning), Charles sat on the couch in the room, browsing the internet. Later, when our friend offered to teach him a chord, Charles said he was tired and wanted to go to bed.

It seems like it's rooted in a mild depression. He had a really bad experience with a psychiatrist and depression meds, so maybe that's why he doesn't want to admit it?

I just feel like he's not trying anymore. I brought it up a couple weeks ago when we were out (the only people tucked in the side room of a bar), and as I kept asking questions about what he wants to do and what he feels, he wound up getting totally upset and standing up and having a kind of aggressive freakout because I wouldn't let it drop. He was apologetic later and said he'd work on things, but hasn't shown too many signs of following up on the conversation. I've sent several e-mails where I've tried to outline things and not be too accusatory, so I'm not in his face as much and so it gives him time to think about it, but he hasn't responded to those.

When we wake up together in the mornings, he's usually sweet and loving, but by the time he gets home in the evening, or when I come home in the evening, he's usually withdrawn. I asked him about the difference between the two times, and he says he really only looks forward to going to bed, and why do I bother him so much? He only wants to do easy things, other stuff is too hard.

So that kind of sounds like depression, right? But I'm sure it can't help if I just nag about it and make him feel bad. But I'm sick and tired of going through ups and downs, especially when he denies that it's an issue.

The other night, I basically gave him three options.
1.) Move out in January and do his own lazy thing (we wouldn't need to be broken up, neccessarily, he just would need his own space to be in because he's driving me nuts).
2.) Agree there's a problem and set accountable behaviors for us to work on (me giving him space, him getting out of the house), and going though the Feel Good Handbook together.
3.) Agreeing there's a problem but that neither of us have the right tools to solve it, and calling in either a professional or someone we both respect to figure out how to solve things.

He hasn't responded yet.

I'm 26, he's 23. I'm relatively happy where I am (decent job, fledgling creative endeavors that seem to be going good places, pleasant enough rented home), he mostly seems lackluster and like he doesn't care about anything...except sometimes, on the days where he does care about things. Unfortunately it seems like caring about things needs follow through, so when you only care 2 days out of the week, it makes plans difficult.

So am I handling this right? What else should be happening, here? Is it fair to be this annoyed at someone who's probably depressed, because their constant web browsing and withdrawnness is bringing me down when I'm trying to work on my own creative projects and live a normal life? If he agrees to work on things, what should our parameters be?

How have you made your best friends?

cymru_j — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:42:18 -0800

How have you made your best and most lasting friendships? I'm not conducting a study or anything; I just want to understand
friendship better and am curious what other people have experienced.
Where, how, or under what conditions have you made your most genuine friendships?

The universal mateship code

vizsla — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 03:49:28 -0800

Anyone who has been to Australia or talked to any Australian males (sometimes females) will know they frequently call people they have never met before or even people they're angry with: "mate". What other expressions of universal male bonding are used in other countries?

When does becoming a good listener go too far?

Anonymous — Wed, 27 May 2009 08:43:19 -0800

As a friend of someone who is going through an extended personal rough patch, how do I find and maintain a good balance between being a sympathetic ear and feeling like a punching bag? Doris and I, both in our mid twenties, have been friends since our freshman year of college, and moved to the same city after we graduated two years ago.

For the past nine months or so, things have not been going well for Doris. Doris works as a freelance writer, which means that her jobs are generally of short duration and long hours, and her next job prospect is always a little nebulous. On top of roommate issues, romantic drama, feelings of isolation in a new town, and family health worries, she's had a few extended stretches of unemployment, which take their toll on her morale and on her wallet, leaving her seriously in the dumps and struggling to pay rent and student loans. Sometimes these things happen to her all at once.

Doris and I speak several times a week, and I feel as if most of our conversations lately are consumed by venting about her problems to the point where my interactions with her feel absolutely draining. Doris' problems are legitimate, stressful, and difficult to navigate, and I also realize that she may be depressed (an issue which I have cautiously raised with her, to no avail). But after nearly a year of being a sympathetic ear and occasional cheerleader, I am having increasing difficulty being the person to whom Doris unleashes her negative attitude about the state of her life, especially since this seems to be the default mode for our interactions recently. I have always tried to be a person to whom Doris could come to with her problems, but her constant bitter, negative attitude is wearing on me, and I find myself wanting to distance myself from her --- and feeling guilty for doing so, when she is having real trouble and obviously needs a sympathetic, solid friend right now. I realize that friendship is not always easy, and have tried to keep that in mind, but it is difficult, exhausting, and frankly sometimes very frustrating dealing with Doris' problems.

In short, I'm having a hard time finding a balance between being a sympathetic friend while not feeling used or resenting Doris for always (or mostly) putting me in the "support" position. I'm wondering if you have any suggestions for how I can better handle this situation to maintain my sanity and our friendship.

Questions to dorisissues@gmail.com

How do I maximize the odds of a good outcome when I tell my friend I'm in love with him?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:57:02 -0800

I'm in love with my friend. I'm going to tell him, but not for a few months. A) What do I do in the meantime? B) Any dos/don'ts for when I tell him? C) How do I both hope for the best and keep my expectations in check so I don't get hurt if he's not interested? D) Any way I can feel him out for signs of interest? I'm a woman in my 30s. I've been friends with this man for 22 years. For many of our adult years he was unavailable for dating and so not-an-option that I never gave it a thought. A few years ago that changed. For the past two years or so I have been very much interested in him, in fact, I think I'm in love with him. For various reasons including the value I place on our friendship and the fact that I was dating someone else during part of that time, I have not seen fit to pursue this, but now it's clear to me that this is not going away.

This is both an emotional/physical attraction (I want to be with him) and a sincere belief that by all logical/rational/detached measures we are vary compatible: we she are the same values, want the same things from our lives, see eye to eye on things like money, kids, places to live, family, religion, politics etc.

We do not currently live in the same city, but we talk on the phone maybe 3 times/week and we email almost-daily. I am going to be in his city in 3 months for a conference. After the conference we will spend 4 days together hanging out and I'll be staying at his place. Beginning a few weeks after that we will be living in the same city. I would like to tell him at the end of this trip, just before getting on the plane and heading home. My plan is to tell him over breakfast and then head straight to the airport.

My thinking here is that telling him just before I go will give him some time to think about it before responding. I plan to suggest that he give it some thought, because I think this will be unexpected to him. Even if he knows right away what he thinks, it will be less awkward this way and we can start fresh (as friends or as more) in a few weeks when we're living in the same city again. Also, if I should end up terribly hurt by this, I would rather be alone with my hurt.

Oh, and when I say "tell him" I don't think I intend to tell him that I'm in love with him (title notwithstanding), which would probably be a bit much. I would tell him that I am interested in pursuing more than friendship. I do understand that it's possible we could date for a few weeks or months or years and discover that it really doesn't work. I get that, but I think it will work and I want to try.

His feelings: Unclear. At times I kind of get the sense he might be interested. Occasionally he will say something along the lines of "what I really admire about you is X" where X is something he has told me he wants in a partner. He compliments my appearance/clothing sometimes, but that's also just a polite thing to do so I don't want to read too much into it. He shows a lot of interest in my life. He's said to me "what you need is someone who Y" where A) He's absolutely right and B) Y describes him pretty well. Things like that. But he's also very clueless and so I could absolutely see him sending signals unintentionally, especially since I'm searching for signals. And I could see him not sending signals even if he does feel some attraction or desire for more.

So my questions are:

A) How do I handle my relationship with him up until I see him/tell him?

I think he's unlikely to start dating someone in that time, but he does occasionally tell me about someone interested in him, who he is not interested in. THis makes me feel awkward since I have an obvious conflict of interest that he doesn't know about.

Anything I can do between now and then to maximize the chance that when I finally tell him he will be interested? I feel it can't hurt to make sure I'm as hot as possible when I get there (extra workouts, lots of moisturizing, I'll get my hair done, get everything waxed etc. before I go). I'm trying to be a particularly good friend to him, but in practice there's not a lot to do here. There's only so much you can be "extra good" at chatting. Anything else I should do?

B) Any thoughts on what I should say/how to make my case when I tell him? Feel free to write an actual script. I expect to be stammering and I may need one. Oh, and the classic AskMe advice, get drunk and kiss him, is not an option. I know him well enough to know that it would turn him off even if he were into me.

C) I'm really scared of getting hurt. What if anything can I do to protect or shield myself a little. I don't want to resort to belittling self-talk about how there's no way he could possible be interested in me and I shouldn't hope for anything. On the other hand, I realize that my hoping could lead to some very deep disappointment.

D) Is there anyway short of asking him to find out if a clueless man (too clueless to send or receive subtle signals, trust me I know this from many other things I know of him) is interested in more than friendship? If I try feeling him out and it seems he's not interested, should I drop it or tell him anyway?

E) Other thoughts or advice that I may not have thought to ask are welcome.

Sorry for the length of the question, but that's hard to avoid with anon questions, I guess.

throwaway email: hopeitsrequited@gmail.com

Let's get physical, but not that kind of physical...

pipstar — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 06:19:53 -0800

I've just left a relationship in which I was having great sex, but not experiencing enough non-sexual physical affection from my partner. It really made me aware of how much I need physical contact such as hugs, and knowing that there's a living body near me. How can I get more of that feeling of physical affection without actually hooking up with someone? Independent of specifically missing the good things about my ex, I'm also aware that I'm going to miss the warmth, skin, pulse and general "livingness" that you feel from a lover.

I'm not planning on hooking up with anyone for a while. However, I know that this longing for contact is one of the things that has previously led me to have casual hookups before I was ready for anything sexual. This time around I'd really like to avoid that situation.

I have an amazing flatmate who by nature is a great hugger, so I'm not totally bereft of hugs when I need them, and I have hug generous friends. But there's an extra sustained living presence that you can't get from hugs alone.

At this point I can't afford to pay for massages and we aren't allowed pets in our apartment, otherwise I'd consider getting a cat for lap sitting happy times.

Any suggestions? Or do I just need to be reminded that this is part and parcel of being single and learn to deal with it?

Why be friends after a breakup?

RajahKing — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:23:10 -0800

After a breakup that is not mutual, what is the purpose of staying friends with the person who dumped you? I am curious to hear your opinions, in regards to personal growth/health/happiness, as to why it may be a good or bad practice to stay friends with exes.

My story that generated the question is simply that I was dumped recently after a ten month relationship (in an entirely appropriate way) but I miss her and feel hurt, and right now I can’t imagine why I would or should put myself through the pain of ever seeing her as a friend. She seems to desire friendship. We move in separate social circles so avoiding her is not difficult. On the other hand, a friendship would be feasible in the sense that we live close to each other and participate in similar team activities.

I am in my early thirties, have had a normal amount of relationships, and in fact remember being friends with exes in the past (usually as a result of mutual breakups). But I am not asking about my situation in particular; I know I need a lot of space right now to get over it, lick my wounds, and maybe down the road I’ll feel differently. The question is more about the purposefulness and/or personal growth aspects.

So, do you think there is a purposeful reason, for personal growth, happiness, or otherwise, to be open to post-relationship friendship?

This is my first question for AskMeFi, I hope its appopriate vis a vis the guidelines - thanks.

Why don't you talk about your girlfriend?

bibliophibianj — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:32:56 -0800

I've been working with this guy for 3 months, and we've gotten on really well the whole time. Today he casually brought up his girlfriend for the first time. Why hasn't he mentioned her before? We only work together twice a week, but are quite flirty when we do. I was never sure if it was recreational or flirting-with-intention, but we've gone out for drinks a couple of times, and we're going to an out-of-town concert this weekend. (It was one we'd each planned to go to anyway.) He brings up his friends (who I've not met) in most of our conversations, and has also mentioned ex-girlfriends. In short, we are friends. I am completely bewildered as to why he wouldn't have mentioned having a girlfriend in the 3 months we've been friends. Does he compartmentalize his life? Does he think of this as exceptionally personal information? Does he assume I already knew? Is it a new relationship? Did it suddenly become more relevant? The intensity of flirting on either side was pretty average today.

Full disclosure: I am in my early twenties and pretty awkward when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex, even if they're just friends. (Yes, I am an Overanalyzer.) Is it silly to think this is strange? My thinking is, if someone is a significant part of your life, that person will naturally come up in conversation.

Movies about love and relationships that aren't like whirlwind romances?

vizsla — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:35:15 -0800

I'm looking for movies about love that are not of the Titanic type. That is, they are about two people who learn to love each other over a long period of time. Maybe at first they don't particularly like each other - or they are just together by necessity, or they are just friends and never think about love. Any ideas? It's for a friend who has already had two divorces. I suspect she has fallen in love with a fairytale only to discover that love requires a lot of acceptance and forgiveness. She told me the other day she had watched Titanic and thought how wonderful the story was. I really don't think it's the type of narrative she should be looking for in her life. I'm trying to give her other ideas. She is in her late 30s with a teenage son.

How to "stay in touch"?

abdulf — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 10:13:24 -0800

How do you keep in touch with friends and relatives over long distances? I have a lot of friends and relatives who I am not necessarily close to, but would like to be. They're good people, but we rarely ever see each other due to living far away.

I have the tools - cell phone, internet, mail.

I don't really know how to use them effectively.

How often should I be calling people? Once a week? Month? Special holidays? I generally stick to major holidays.

What about people that I never talked to before I became an "adult"? Like older uncles and aunts and younger cousins or nieces and nephews (like 10 years younger). How do you keep in touch when the ties are by blood, but they're just neutral.

I basically don't know what to say to people. If you got a routine you use or some concrete examples, I would appreciate it. I've read books on cold-calling and networking, and what I want is a more substantive relationship.

I need a frame of mind to approach this, maybe some idea that it's ok to have varying degrees of strength in a relation, maybe some advice that people don't necessarily get offended when I don't call.

What is the psychology of friendship?

pipstar — Wed, 14 May 2008 07:10:55 -0800

Lately, the concept of "friends" seems to have become incredibly diluted by the casual use of the term by Facebook, MySpace et al. But in "the real world" what do you consider to be important when you are making and becoming friends? Is it how long you've known someone? How frequently you meet up? What you have in common? Something more intangible? Also, I'd love recommendations of any books looking at the psychology of how people become friends.

Studies of the profiles of friendships

zaebiz — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 03:30:24 -0800

I have very few close friends. Most of them I have known for a few years (on the internet) but have never even met. I've never known how to have a superficial friend. I don't keep old friends. Has there been any research on how many close friends people usually have and keep during their lifetimes? I would also like to know who they usually are and how long they have known them for. How long do friendships last? Is the internet changing the profile and longetivity of friendships?

How can I make it up to my pal?

stedman15 — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:50:37 -0800

I did what I was asking about in this question , and now I've lost one of my friends. I told all my friends about the fact that I lied to them about my level of sexual experience. Three of them were cool with it, one of them was not.

He said that my lying reflects badly on him because he is accountable in part for the actions of those he associates with. He calls me a pathological liar (on this issue, I was). This guy is one of my best pals, and I've been his friend for 11 years. I don't want to push him, but I also don't want to lose him as a friend.

Is there anything I can do to indicate that I am changing and it won't happen again?

P.S. I know I was wrong for lying. Nothing anyone can say can make me feel worse than I do.

Can we not be friends?

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:16:26 -0800

How do I "break up" with a platonic friend? I have been friends with a woman, Amy, for several years. We are both single, straight women and in our early 40's.

Our casual friendship intensified last year as we were both going through bad times. I was getting out of an abusive marriage and my ex refused to leave me alone, which lead to terrible confrontations and and jail time for him.

At the same time, Amy had met a man and dated him briefly, but he was not interested. She was heartbroken and continued to try to get him back into her life.

So she and I spent lots of time together and stayed in close contact. She was extremely supportive and really took on my cause. I tried to help her as well, by encouraging her to leave the guy alone and move on.

I have been in therapy and also started a very healthy and happy relationship. She continued her cycle of meeting guys, falling hard, and scaring them off with her intensity. Her last "relationship" was the worst. It was with a married man who promised the world, then blew her off. After their breakup she continued sending him long letters, as well as calling, emailing, sending text messages, IM-ing to the point where he had to confront her and tell her to leave him alone. Recently she joined a club so that she could attend the meetings and see him (so he started attending different meetings, but she has tracked him down again).

Their breakup happened over 4 months ago. She still contacts him every day. She also sends me at least one long email a day about the guy and I tell her repeatedly that she has to leave him alone. She admits her behavior is terrible, but she doesn't stop.

I started to withdraw from the friendship several months ago, when I realized that she was attracted to drama. I was also extremely uncomfortable with her stalking guys, especially considering my own experience. And I was exhausted by her almost daily teary calls about the married man. When I didn't respond immediately, I would get mean messages about how I was not there for her, even though she was there for me.

I'm definitely in the "nesting" stage with my new boyfriend and busy with my work, so I've been using that as an excuse for not seeing Amy. But she does not give up. She has joined my gym, she tried to join one of my activity groups, tries to befriend my friends, etc....

Unfortunately, Amy has no other friends. None of my friends like her. She gets mad at me when I do something without her, but she makes my friends really uncomfortable.

Part of me wonders if I am selfish and if now that I'm past my issues, she's no longer useful and I'm dropping her. And I
while she drives me crazy, I do want be nice, because she is (deep down) good at heart, and seriously hurting.

Already today she has called me three times, emailed once, and sent a text message with updates of her day. Tonight I am supposed to go to a show with a group of people, and they don't want her along with us. I don't know how I'm going to explain it to her. Even as I type this question she is IM-ing me to ask what I'm doing tonight.

So...how do you end a platonic relationship with someone who has a proclivity for stalking and serious boundary issues? Is it possible to "end" things smoothly and without animosity? Or, best of all, how can I taper down the friendship so that we are still amicable, but without her constant contact?

Portrayals of friendship and social circles in books, movies, or essays

salvia — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:01:55 -0800

Can you recommend books, movies, or essays with good portrayals of friendships or people's social circles? I'd like to read or watch things with realistic, complex examinations of friendships and people's social circles.

I've been thinking through my idea of friendship (is it too fairytale? is it too detached?), and about how to maintain friendships amidst life's complications (people moving, starting families, getting busy), and about how to make new friends. I've also been struggling with one friendship that is difficult for me right now.

I realized it would help to see how other people saw friendship and their social circle. Can you recommend things to read or watch? Books, short stories, movies, or nonfiction essays are all great.

To spark ideas, here are a few questions I'm interested in -- What does it mean to be friends? What are people's close friendships like? How do people stay friends over the years through ups and downs? What if one person moves away or friends grow apart? What about groups of friends, what are those like? How do other people look at their full circle of both acquaintances and friends? What is it like to be new in town and trying to build a new social network?

How do people go about bringing honest communication into their friendships and relationships?

gregb1007 — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:12:03 -0800

How do people go about bringing honest communication into their friendships and relationships? A lot of the "human relations" questions on Mefi have made me reflect on the fact that friends or romantic partners often keep quiet about the dislikes/issues they have with another person. This can sometimes lead to a build of up festering resentment and the straining of either friendship/romantic relationship.

So, have any of you learned to avoid building up resentment with friends or lovers by communicating your dislikes? How did you bring yourself to have the courage to say unpleasant, critical things to said friend/lover?

Seems to me that this kinda of honesty, while avoiding build up of resentment, can also offend the person who becomes the subject of criticisms/complaints/nitpicking? So I guess with all of that in mind, my question basically comes down to two issues:

1.) How to get the courage to communicate honestly
2.) How to "criticize" people in a way that gets your message across but doesn't insult them and make them feel horrible? (The goal is to to be honest, but not be a jerk.)

Ms. Not-too-bad?

mpls2 — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 05:12:24 -0800

I'm picky about friends and lovers. How much should I compromise? I don't have a girlfriend, and I find it hard to maintain friendships (although I've gotten better at starting friendships). I think this is because I have unrealistic expectations for how perfect my friends and partners should be.

I'm wondering how much "friction" is normal in relationships. In what ways do your partners or friends not live up to your idea of the perfect partner or friend? I've seen comments in various threads (and other places) where people will complain about someone they love, but they obviously still love that person. In contrast, I think I throw away relationships at the slightest provocation.

What are some specific ways that your loved ones' personality, habits, etc., disappoint you?

OMG! Dramatic friends.

xo — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:51:01 -0800

What are the best ways of dealing with dramatic friends, to give them the love and support that they need without rewarding their dramatic strategies? I like people that are unusual and/or artistic and so, at any given time, I have a few "dramatic" friends. These are people in their 20s or 30s who will abruptly stop emailing when they're feeling low, go to parties and sit in a corner glowering if they had a bad day, delete their LiveJournal or MySpace accounts when they perceived they've been slighted by other friends, etc.

In the past, when a friend suddenly stops emailing me, I get in touch right away and ask them how they are, give some listening and attention, and follow-up every few days with little notes and things so that their inbox isn't empty. It always results in my friend cheering up and communicating their feelings to me, so I feel like I've done a good thing. But at the same time, I feel like a sucker, because invariably the friend was just peevish or depressed in the way that strikes all people, and the drama wasn't necessary. So I feel like I'm being tested to see if I care about them, because it's on me to notice their mood or behavior and then come to them and ask how they are.

I like lots of the other attributes of these friends, so I don't want to ditch them entirely. Also, these snits or depressions never directly have to do with me (I've never caused the slight/hurt); I'm just the compassionate listener and advice-giver. So I'd like to continue to contribute to these friendships in a caring way, but I'm really tired of the tests and drama. How can I be a good friend without rewarding or playing into the dramatic tactics of these people?

How do I ask an ex to quit calling?

poxuppit — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:35:50 -0800

Is it too pathetic to ask an ex who wants to be friends to quit calling me because I’m still stuck on him? If not, how can I do it and maintain a shred of dignity? What do I say? I’m a 42 year old woman, which I mention up top because this is going to sound like the lamentations of a 16 year old drama queen and I’d rather you knew I was just fairly inexperienced with men, not an idiot kid.
So anyway, last summer, I met a guy and fell hard. But it soon became clear we were mismatched and so we kept everything casual. In the winter, a combination of a tiff, a misunderstanding and trips out of town conspired to keep us apart for a couple of months and by the time we were both back in the same city and in regular communication, things seemed to have changed. He turned down a few suggestions I made to get together, and never suggested any dates himself, and pointedly ignored any flirtatious emails. We never discussed it, but I got the message that any romance was over. Maybe he was bored of me, maybe he found a new girl. I don't know.
But for ages now, he's called or emailed at least once a day, just to chat. This would be fine, I love talking to him, except I haven’t been able to let go of my feelings for him. I still fantasize about the amazing sex, I still long for his arms around me. While part of me secretly still hopes maybe he’ll want me again, I know that’s stupid and that I must move on. But even though I've met some new men and at least one has made advances, I can't get interested because I'm still mooning over this guy I haven't even seen in months. It seems the only way I’ll stop obsessing is if I cut off contact, at least for a while. How can I do that, without sounding pathetic and psycho?

I'll give you a call...

dentata — Sat, 03 Feb 2007 10:23:17 -0800

How does one make friends in LA? I'm a person whose life is considerably better when I have social interaction. I've been in LA for about 8 months now, and I'm still frustrated that I don't have a consistent pool of people to do things with.

My situation isn't aided by the fact that both of my jobs don't facilitate meeting people on a consistent basis... it's difficult to make friends at auditions or on gigs or when you're working from home.

My groups of college friends in LA have been a bit disappointing -- one group I realized I've grown away from, the other I enjoy doing things with but already have a very established group of friends already (so it's been difficult to become an active member or a tagalong).

My biggest frustration is that when I do meet new interesting people, I find it nearly impossible to go from "oh hey, i'll call you if I have a party" to something more -- something I think which enhanced by the intrinsic flakiness of the Angelino lifestyle.

I've started taking classes at IO to meet new people, people tell me I'm an affable guy, I live with my girlfriend so I'm pretty sure I'm not intolerable.

Is it just part of the post-school crappiness-of-being-a-grownup? I've never really had a problem finding a girlfriend, why are friends so much more difficult?

Overcoming constant accusations and insinuations of infidelity?

dobbs — Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:24:22 -0800

What to do about accusations / insinuations that one can't be trusted hanging out with other people's girlfriends and/or they can't be trusted hanging out with you? I have great difficulty having friendships with women who are in relationships with others. Though nothing sexual ever happens--and I don't want anything to happen as I do not want to be party to that kind of betrayal--pressure is constantly put onto myself and the women in question for our friendship to cease.

It's pretty infuriating and lately is threatening a friendship with someone whose absence from my life would be felt quite heavily. That said, I've offered to scatter but the friend feels (rightly so, imo) that her partner should not be dictating who she hangs out with.

In your experience, is it better to maintain friendship or break it off? And, how can one ease the imagination of the third party?

Note that to my knowledge, in every case, the insinuations are not called for (ie, the female friends have never cheated on their mate in the past).

A friend of mine said something hurtful. Should I be offended?

LoriFLA — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:01:13 -0800

A friend of mine said something hurtful. Should I be offended? (Long) I have a very close girlfriend that I have been friends with since the 7th grade. I will call her Jane. We lost touch for the last year or two because of our busy lives. We have recently got back in touch and have been going out here and there, and speak on the phone frequently. My friend is a great conversationalist and a good listener so we gab a lot.

A few months ago I was feeling kind of sad about my marriage. I was complaining to my friend Jane that my husband never wants to go anywhere, and doesn't have many friends. My husband is an introvert. I knew this when I married him nearly 8 years ago, and my friend Jane knows my husband's personality very well too.

Every six months or so I start feeling frustrated about the fact that my husband and I don't have any friends in common, nor do we have any sort of social life that we share. I have my friends and he has his. My husband likes to play poker, and he usually plays with people much older than him.

I wouldn't say my husband is depressed, but he is unsure of himself, and gets flustered and shy around new people. He tends to avoid social contacts for this reason. His closest friend is his uncle, and the uncle is thirty years his senior. My husband and I don't go out with other couples, and if we do, it is very infrequent. It drives me crazy that small talk is so difficult for him, and he lacks many of the social graces that come so easily to most of the population.

I was telling the above story to my friend Jane. She didn't offer much advice, which is nice, because I wasn't really looking for advice. I was just complaining about the situation, and wanted somebody to talk to.

Without making this a very very long story, I will try to be concise. My friend Jane is very close with her brother-in-law John. John is our age (mid-thirties), and one of the cool kids. He is outgoing, funny, good looking, has a great job, yada, yada. Even though brother-in-law John is married to Jane's sister, he loves to spend a lot of time with my friend Jane. Often without his wife, who is Jane's sister. Jane is equally great looking, outgoing, and hilarious. I think Jane secretly may have a tiny crush on John. Jane thinks John is the cat's pajamas, and nearly idolizes him. John is very flirty, and loves to hug and kiss friends, and has commented to Jane, that "she is easy on the eyes."

Jane is divorced, so when she doesn't have her children, she likes to go out on the town, and has become quite the party animal. I went out with her a couple times for drinks without my husband. My husband is fine with this, and stayed home to watch our children. I basically sit there and enjoy the live music, chat a bit, and have a few beers while watching men attempting to pick up Jane. I recently introduced Jane to a divorced male friend, and they are both smitten with one another. The first thing she said to me when she laid eyes on my friend is, "He looks like John".

Jane continued to invite me out, and I told her I was having a great time going out, but I don't feel comfortable going to drinking establishments without my husband, unless it was strictly a "girls night out".

I decided to invite my husband to go out with four other couples for drinks, and he said that he would love to go. I was so excited that he wanted to go. We met up with Jane and the new smitten guy, John and his wife, and a few other couples. My husband was talking a lot with the guys, and I was chatting with the girls. I felt relieved because my husband seemed to be having no problems talking with a couple of the men, and appeared to be having a good time.

The next morning Jane called me on the phone to chat. She said to me, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, but John said, 'I could not talk to Lori's husband at all. What does she see in him? I can't believe they are together. I would never think Lori would be married to a person like that. How long have they been together?" She then said, "I just wanted to tell you that, because now your feelings are confirmed. I told John that you have been together with your husband for a long time, and Lori's husband looks at life differently, he is very smart." I am sure they spoke more about what a drip or dork my husband was, but my friend kept that information to herself.

I wish I would of told my friend that, "yeah that does hurt my feelings", but instead I said something like, "well maybe he was trying too hard, and maybe he was a bit intimidated by John. John has a larger than life personality, and maybe it was difficult for a shy person like my husband to talk to him."

Part of me wants to know why my friend would even relay this information back to me. My friend knows that I love my husband and I am not planning on leaving him, I just feel unhappy about our social life. She knows that I am not willing to break my family apart just because my husband isn't an outgoing person like myself. I now feel like I can't bring my husband around these people, especially John, because he is not one of the "cool" people. I don't care to see John, even though he probably didn't intend for Jane to tell me what he said about my husband. Jane keeps calling me and inviting me out, and I have talked to her on the phone a great deal. I have never led her to believe I was upset about her telling me about John's comment.

Should I be offended? Does this sound like a real friend? She invited me out tonight to this little place with great live music, and I told her I might go. My husband would have to stay home with our kids.

At the end of composing this question she just called me back to tell me that John and his wife would be there. Should I stay home with my husband and screw these people? Or am I making too much of it?

Thank you for your thoughts, advice, and comments.

Making friends in a new neighbourhood

jchgf — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:18:21 -0800

Looking for a brainstorm about tips for a shy, semi-square kind of guy to make friends with locals in a cool neighbourhood. I recently moved in the Plateau Mont-Royal in Montreal, Canada from Griffintown, a remote no-man's land on the edge of Old-Montreal. I would like to immerse myself in the hood and make friends with locals, but so far I find most residents seem to have large networks of cool friends and are not particularly outgoing to lone strangers. I also am not very used to the european Dolce Vita vibe of the hood, though I am very much attracted to it, and I wonder if my american (as in North American) semi-squareness isn't clashing with the local sensibilities. To put it another way, it seems like everyone around here has so much more "soul" than I do, and I am intimidated by this.

Thus, my challenge in the next year will be be to develop an active social life in the neighbourhood, and I would like to hear suggestions on how to realize this.

About me: I am 27, was born and raised as a lone child by a single mother in the northern suburb, and was pretty much a loner as a kid, teenager and well, as an adult too. I know the basics of social interaction (Carnegie, etc) and I am pleasant and interesting in short interactions, but I have always found it difficult to develop solid, long-term friendships.

I am a native french speaker and am not affected by the language barrier.

I moved in with a roommate who is very much like me, and new to the hood too. We've been bar-hopping this week but were not successful in making contacts so far.

I am looking to make friends with people 20-35 (or +) with extensive social life. I feel like this is the kind of people I need to meet at this point in my life, to help me get a real life, not a substitute from TV, movies or the workplace (which is outside the hood, but I am contemplating getting a job here).

So far on my own, I have considered:

- Getting a second job in a café or bar, though I have no experience in the service industry area.

- Hanging out in coffeeshops, but being shy, I don't find it easy to initiate contacts, and besides most people seem content in their own world.

- I have been looking for community activities, haven't found anything striking my interests. Perhaps I need to find hood-specific ressources (do you know of any?).

Would like to hear more thoughts from you! Thanks in advance.