Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with mlm

Is there such a thing as free money?

knystress — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:10:33 -0800

IsThisAScamFilter: Melaleuca Inc., the internets seem to be on the fence about it. Have ye any experience? A friend was approached today about becoming a distributor for this company, and after extensive Googling we still can't figure out whether it's a run-of-the-mill MLM scam or a fantastic opportunity for some free/easy money.

Do any of you trusted Mefites have experience with this company or some anecdotes to sway the vote? Your help would be very much appreciated since this means the difference between being paid to do nothing and paying through the nose to wind up with a bunch of useless crap.

MLM + Parents = not a good mix

Drama Penguin — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:26:12 -0800

Multi-level marketing + parents. How do I convince my father and my step-mother that their involvement in a MLM energy company is a bad idea? My family has had somewhat of a charmed life financially for last 10 or so years. My step-mother's late husband died in a military accident and received the military life insurance and a hefty settlement from the makers of the equipment he was using when he lost his life. So, my the family was set financially for a few years. That money has kept them afloat from the mid 90's to the mid 00's. They haven't had to work, so no real health insurance to speak. They are now nearing retirement age and are figuring out that SS and medicare benefits aren't going to be able to pay for everything that will be needed during their golden years. She hasn't even really worked during her life so she might not even qualify for all those benefits.

During this time that they haven't had to worry about money they have been successful in starting a small independent pentecostal church (think 50 people in attendance on a normal Sunday - 150 people on a Easter Sunday) in a very poor part of the US. They have invested much of their money into the church to build a sanctuary. So there is no chance that there is going to be any money coming in from the church realistically. So because of the church work and being somewhat financially secure, they were very protected from what "normal" people think of MLM's.

They've tried to make money in the past couple years by selling vitamins and shakes and other silliness like that, but no significant portion of their income has ever come from this. I thought they would have learned from those experiences that MLM is not a good way to go.

Someone got to them with this new opportunity in energy. Because energy is being deregulated, there are numerous MLM companies recruiting folks to sell their energy. It's much like the same model as Excel communications was doing in the late 90's for long distance.

Now my father is spending the time that he isn't doing church work recruiting trying to build a "downline" and signing people up for this service. It's really sad to me because my step-mother really believes that they are going to become millionaires from this endeavor. Every time I call them, she asks me to join in and help. Of course I have told them that under no circumstances am I going to help them and that a MLMer is rarely successful.

Because my father is so trusting of strangers and my step-mother is so determined to be "right" (I've split from them religiously so this may play into it a bit.) I know I am going to have a hard time convincing them to abandon this.

I'm really concerned about them. I do want them to prepare for the future financially, but I don't want them spoiling their reputation and spending the next couple of years working at something that is never going to pan out. What little success that they are having right now (I think they've made maybe 5k in the last 8 months or so) is really going to make it tough for me to present my case.

Somethings that I am searching for:

# Ways for them to test the customer service of this company to show what this company is really like.

# Some hard numbers of people that are successful in MLMing vs those that aren't - I doubt these numbers are available.

# Representations in the media about what people really think about MLM's (think Micheal in the office trying to sell phone cards to his employees)

# A way to present the cost of running this type of business compared to a regular business. (Time spent and Money spent)

# If you know of any Christian leaders that have spoken out about MLM that have any biblical basis. Or any biblical basis against doing MLM.

# Any other ideas to convince them to give this up. Hard numbers seem to be more convincing to my father.

I apologize for the wall of text, and thank you for any help you are able to provide.

Anyone up on Web 2.0 MLM scams?

Roach — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:20:53 -0800

Looking for background on a new (to me) type of MLM scam. A friend with a background in legitimate marketing (he runs the marketing dept. for our local semi-pro football team) has recently begun spamming his Facebook friends and signing all of his emails with ads for his new "business". Googling the name of his product and his website turns up all sorts of hits related to "attraction marketing". It seems like another MLM scam to me, related to selling websites instead of actual products. Does anyone have any experience with this "attraction marketing" stuff? It's very difficult to search for legitimate info on.

I'd like to have material, examples, etc to show him how it's one giant pyramid scheme scam and makes his own work look less professional and less ethical.

If you Google "intlmlm guru" the first result is a 5-minute YouTube video presentation of this thing by his apparent partner. I watched the whole thing and was more confused than ever.

How does an otherwise rational and intelligent person get suckered into Market America?

kenliu — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:11:07 -0800

How does an otherwise rational and intelligent person get suckered into Market America? I have two acquaintances who are highly educated, logical, and intelligent, but are part of the Market America scam. These guys both have electrical engineering degrees, one is married to a CPA and the other even has an MBA.

How is it that they both are suckered into this thing? Can they not do the math? Is it just for a small bit of extra income? Maybe there is something legitimate about MA compared to Amway/Quixtar?

I don't want to ask them about it because I don't even want to broach the topic.

For a bonus - MA offers personalized ecommerce web sites...does anyone really think that random people will buy from a random web site when consumers can just go to Amazon?

Sounds like a scam, is it?

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:38:30 -0800

Sounds like a scam, but help me verify: Someone I know now calls herself a travel agent via a company called World Ventures, which offers each "agent" a simple Web site with an airfare search tool on it. Sounds scammy to me, and when I Google, I get bits and pieces that sound bad, but the company doesn't seem to be one that Quackwatch or MLM Survivor or those sites has a lot to report on. (Maybe because it only dates to 2005?) Can anyone offer up more info? Articles in solid publications about World Ventures preferred, but any info is helpful. (Posting anonymously so involved friend doesn't know who's asking.) Thanks.

Herbalife:Does it Work as a Product?

vac2003 — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:13:11 -0800

Herbalife: Can anyone point me to sites about the efficacy of their products? I been on it for two months (no sniggering in the back, please), have lost some weight but I wonder what I am putting into my body. I know many regard it as MLM cult, etc (promising wealth and prosperity, but almost always meet with failure.) but I am interested in the actual products and whether there is any evidence they actually work.

Is Dani Johnson a Scammer?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:09:34 -0800

A friend of a friend has started to shell out money to Dani Johnson. She's only a few hundred dollars in so far and I'm trying my best to find information to dissuade her from getting in any deeper. Google, however, is letting me down - every link I find is basically a scam site of some kind gushing about her. Taken as a whole the result of this search being garbage is damning enough on its own but I'm looking for something more definitive I can bring to her. 500 results in I see a Yahoo Answers question asking the same thing but there isn't a substantial answer there. Hopefully Metafilter knows better. :) Is it a scam? Is it a pyramid scheme? Is there any proof?

What's Kangen Water?

diode — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:28:23 -0800

My wife has signed up to join an MLM network selling a device called a LeveLuk SD501, which produces 'Kangen' water. I think this thing is worthless for health purposes. I'm keeping an open mind but we're talking $5k to buy one of these things and I think it's a waste. I'm wondering what the hive mind comes up with. This device is basically a water purifier with several treatment stages after the filtration where the water is supposedly split into four different levels of alkalinity and acidity with varying health effects.

So, is this a hoax, or some ridiculous device puffed up to look like it actually helps people? Maybe someone reading this will think it works as advertised.

The company is named 'Enagic'. You have only to google 'kangen water' and come across people with their various testimonials. Rather than post details of the machine, you can read about it at http://www.enagic.com/products/leveluk_sd501.html.

Please stop mlm-ing me!

biscotti — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:11:25 -0800

How do I politely and kindly dissuade a dear friend from trying to get me involved in various MLM schemes without offending her or hurting her feelings? I have a very dear older friend who I in no way want to offend or upset. I have a lot of respect for her and I adore her as a person. However, she is involved in a variety of different MLM-type "businesses" which she really seems to believe in (she genuinely doesn't seem to just want to sell me something, she really believes in the products and the moneymaking opportunities, and the products themselves aren't necessarily scammy-seeming, just the manner in which they're being sold).

I don't mind her telling me about (insert product here) once or even twice, and I have even bought something once or twice because it seemed useful, but I'm not interested in "becoming a distributor", nor am I interested in hearing about how Product X is the answer to every problem. Despite the fact that she is always polite and gentle about it, and does not push it after she's said her piece, I feel uncomfortable with the fact that she brings these ~~scams~~things up on a semi-regular basis. I have a deep distrust of all things MLM (thanks to a relative who got in way too deep) and it's starting to bother me, especially since I'm getting past the point where I can smile and nod and change the subject as soon as it's remotely polite to do so, and I'm starting to get worryingly close to eye-rolling "IT'S A SCAM" territory, and I really don't want to go there. I will be spending a few days in a row with this friend in the near future, and I know this is going to come up and I really need something kind and gentle and polite and respectful to say when it does. I don't need to tell her that I think she's wasting her time and money, I just need to let her know that I'm not interested.

Are these ingredients harmful?

gd779 — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:00:30 -0800

Should I eat this "green drink" (consisting of powdered vegetables, tree bark, etc.) from Robert O. Young (the "Alkaline diet" guy)? Will it harm me? Ingredients are listed inside. Yes, I know that from Innerlight is an MLM. And I know that the Alkaline diet is scientific rubbish. But my parents gave me a bunch of this "green drink" powder and asked me to try it. The ingredients all look natural, but I wanted to make sure there's no harm in consuming, for example, "slippery elm bark."

Here's the complete list of ingredients:

Kamut Grass, Barley Grass, Lemon Grass, Shavegrass, Wheat Grass, Alfalfa Leaf, Dandelion Leaf, Billberry Leaf, Black Walnut Leaf, Blackberry Leaf, Plantain Leaf, Red Raspberry Leaf, Blueberry Leaf, Boldo Leaf, Goldenseal Leaf, Papaya Leaf, Strawberry Leaf, Lecithin, White Willow Leaf, Slippery Elm Bark, Marshmallow Root, Pau d'Arco, Cornsilk, Rosemary, Betatene, Rose Hip, Echinacea Purp Tops, Dog Grass, Meadowsweet, Aloe Whole Leaf Conc., Oat Grass, Soy Sprouts Con., Kale, Spinach, Okra, Cabbage, Celery, Parsley Leaf, Broccoli, Watercress, Alfalfa Juice Conc., Tumuric, Tomato, Peppermint Leaf, Spearmint Leaf, Wintergreen Leaf, Sage, Thyme, Rosemary Leaf.

Is there anything in there that I should be worried about consuming on a regular basis?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Is Public Gold an MLM scam?

ObscureReferenceMan — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:36:08 -0800

ScamFilter: Is Public Gold a multi-level marketing scam? Or a "legit" MLM? A friend of mine is involved with something called "Public Gold", and will be extending me an invitation to a meeting. When she showed my the website, and it looks a little dodgy - has all the earmarks of an MLM scam. (BTW, if you go to the "base site", http://www.publicgold.com/, you get prompted for ID or member name. Odd.)

Doing a google search resulted in a number of PG "user sites", but not much more. Further digging at MLM "watchdog" sites (mlmwatch.org, mlm-thetruth.com, etc.) didn't yield anything either.

Saw one link in MLM.com forum that mentioned it in unflattering terms. Compared it to another potential scam called Gold Unlimited (I also know nothing of them). And mlm.com is a site for people running MLMs! So if they think it's a scam...

Does anyone know anything about Public Gold? All info, anecdotes, stories, links are welcome. Thanks!

How to cope with a MLM-programmed sibling?

catfood — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 13:20:01 -0800

My older brother, who has been swindled by MLM (multi-level marketing) scams in the past, has gotten involved in yet another. Have any of you dealt with a family member in this situation? Is there anything I can do, or do any of you have suggestions on how to cope with this? My brother, who has some actual problems that had prevented him from doing well in school and keep him in relatively low level jobs otherwise, has always been convinced that one day he would strike it rich through running "his own" business.

In the past, he has participated in, and thrown a lot of money away on, different MLM schemes. He never makes much (if any) money off of them, but always spends a *lot* of money he does not have on materials and product to get himself started. He's older than me (now 35) and has been doing this since his early 20's. He's also never been financially stable - he has maxed out every credit card he could get his paws on, he still constantly asks my dad for money, and my parents, who now live across the country from all of their kids, get calls from collection agencies trying to get ahold of my brother. His phone is frequently disconnected because he forgets to or is unable to pay the bill. In other words, he cannot afford to spend hundreds of dollars starting up an ultimately doomed MLM business.

He finally seemed to get his act together over the past few years - he had a steady day job and actually started his own side business DJ-ing parties (which I have to admit he did a great job of, and seemed to also enjoy). Our family was really very proud of him, since he seemed to have a real talent at his DJ business.

But now he has signed up for yet another MLM scam selling detoxifying diet products and he has been calling me & e-mailing me to get me to try this wonder product *and* to become an associate under him.

I have challenged him in the past, but he spouts off marketing crap like he's in a cult or something. I reply to his insistance that I try his products or consider becoming an associate with the fact that I'm not interested in any diet products right now, that I don't have the time or inclination to sell anything ever, and that I don't want to talk business with family. Nothing seems to work. He just responds with how much he cares about me and wants me to live to old age, and that it's not a weight loss product, it's a "detox" product that everyone needs to be healthy. And that I am wasting my life working a steady 9-5 job when I could be earning income from a successful home business like him.

On one hand, I feel like I will never be able to change his mind, and that I just have to sit back and let him get burned again and again and hope that at some point he will learn.

But on the other hand, I just feel desperate. My parents have given up on talking any sense into him, and they just keep giving him loans when he's really desperate to pay a bill. There are deprogrammers for cult members. Is there anything like that for people in MLMs? Is there anything I can say or give him to read that might get through to him about how evil these companies are?

Or do I just need to keep telling him I'm not interested in his business or products, and find some way to cope with watching my brother destroy the little bit of stability he had built up for himself?

Is PhotoMax a scam or a good opportunity for my mother?

litlnemo — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:01:25 -0800

MLMFilter: My mother called me and mentioned a "new business" she wants to start. She was very excited about it, and said the business is at http://www.mywayoutonline.com/, and the company is actually called PhotoMax. I have my doubts... My immediate response, when seeing that website, was "Scam. Don't do it." But she says I am too cynical and need to be more trusting. I did a search for "photomax scam" and I think my intuitions are correct -- all the people defending the company seem to be people who are already part of the MLM scheme and trying to promote it.

They seem to sell online remote photo storage and make a big and somewhat implausible fuss over their storage facilities and how they will protect one's pictures. One of the web pages I looked at said the storage is $45 a month. But the PhotoMax website doesn't tell you up front, as far as I can tell, that monthly fee. (They do tell you what prints of your photos will cost.) They also apparently try to get you to use their photo editing/uploading software, which has an additional cost. One of the web pages I looked at claimed that the sales people have to spend $250 for a startup kit (a kit! for an online service!) and then spend $1000 on 4 more kits to sell to their friends and family. This sounds to me as if they are targeting older, not net-savvy people, who might think that $45/month is a good deal for what they could get for free (or at most $25/year) on Flickr.

The company that operates this is the company that sells Nu Skin, Also, it is the company that does Nu Skin, etc., who were busted by the FTC in 1993 and 1997.

My mom does not see MLM as an automatic negative; in the 1970s she made good money selling Princess House (crystal and china) and Tri-Chem (craft paints) through the home party system, so she thinks MLM is a good idea. (I don't really agree, but I know there are companies such as Avon, etc. that I wouldn't consider scammy, at least.) One of my main concerns, however, is that the PhotoMax product itself is very weak. There is a lot of competition for photo storage online and all of it is cheaper.

So I'm turning to the hivemind, hoping that some of you have some experience with this company (or its related companies like Nu Skin) and aren't shills who are trying to improve your downline. I am looking for some honest opinions I can pass on to my mom.

Debunking Magic Gas Pills

kumazemi — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:32:09 -0800

Bio Performance Gas Pill: My parents are being lured into selling/using a gas-saving "gas pill" that is marketed via MLM /Pyramid Scheme tactics. My BS-detector is going off. I'm wary of the marketing method used for this to begin with, but the product itself just screams "scam".

My parents are well-intentioned, SUV driving middle americans who have fallen for a pyramid scheme in the past.

Some google has led me to a couple of long and messy forum threads on the subject, as well as 2 more easily digested articles on gas-saving scams and MLMs.

Aside from this, could you please provide me with any more info on the topic. I simply can't believe this gas pill is for real, but if it is I'll eat my hat.

I'm currently telling them why I feel this is a scam and how they can really save money on gas. However, I'd like to be able to more consisely discuss it with them without giving in to my natural reaction by saying, "You have got to be fucking kidding me." (Which I haven't done.)

They literally just bought a Suburban because they think this gas pill will save them money. Help.

Thanks in advance!

MLM Management Software

silusGROK — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:25:04 -0800

My agency brought on a start-up MLM, and we need to provide software to manage the MLM salesforce, their downlines, commissions, etc. (Yeah, yeah... I know... ). In the past, for our normal clients, we've used SugarCRM to manage customers and the like. I'm wondering: can anyone recommend a good MLM management app — must have an internet interface.

Xooma Multi-Level Marketing : Should my dad stay away?

mikeanegus — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:15:56 -0800

Xooma Multi-Level Marketing : Should my dad stay away? My dad is in his late 50s now. He used to be an avionics engineer with a very decent salary. However he is now retired and living in Australia, near all his family.

The problem is that he only has about a years worth of savings left before his level of expenditure (i.e. rent, food) means it will run out. Instead of getting a job, he's really getting into Multi-level marketing things like Xooma and ACN Telecoms. I feel sick to my stomach about this because i feel it is akin to the "coral calcium" scam or pyramid selling schemes.

My dad seems happy, he gets to meet loads of people to sell to even though he's now making a grand total of about 34 dollars a month with outgoings of over 1000.

He says he'll get a job to tide him over at some point but i'm worried. I think he'll be stuck there in Australia forever whereas we used to travel all over the place....any advice on what I should do?

XanGo Mangosteen Juice

Rash — Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:40:12 -0800

Is mangosteen juice a scam? Anybody have experience with XanGo mangosteen juice?

The only info I've uncovered smells like Amway-style MLM involving $35 bottles of something with exagerated health claims.

I'm familiar with the fruit from a trip to Malaysia, but haven't ever seen any stateside, only canned and once, some awful frozen at an ethnic grocery, which were horrible, perhaps because each one had been cut for some reason, which led to mixing of the white fruit and its red husk during thaw.

Wondering if the juice is any substitute.

Is multi-level-marketing always a scam?

elgilito — Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:21:09 -0800

Is multi-level-marketing (MLM) always a scam? Should I dissuade someone from becoming a distributor? While travelling in a developing country, I met a person who had just found a job as a distributor for a fruit juice product. She was extremely excited by this new prospect and I told her that I'd make some background checks. Back home, I found that the company (Morinda) is a large MLM operator from the US selling an overpriced product (noni juice at 50 euros/litre and distributors must buy 4 litres per month) through inflated claims of nutritional/health value (just check Pubmed). However, among the many slimy MLM companies selling this product, it seems relatively legit (toning down the snake oil pitch due to previous run-ins with the law on both sides of the Atlantic ; distancing itself from pyramidal schemes at least in appearance ; being the source of an actual economic boom in the region where the fruit is growing) and I can understand that a jobless person in a impoverished country may be interested. So the question is: are ALL MLM schemes scams? Has this person a remote, tiny possibility to make actual money with this company or should she run away? I've already had a look at mlmwatch.org and I believe that's just another scam, just better made that the usual pyramid ones, but OTOH MLM businesses are legal and allowed to operate. So what do people think? Anyone with good/bad experience with these types of companies?

Experiences with Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing?

Eideteker — Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:36:23 -0800

My aunt just sent me an e-mail linking to a site she set up for "Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing". Before I even brought the home page up, it felt quite a bit like Herbalife and other pyramid schemes just from reading the e-mail. Indeed, one of the first links on Google is a scam.com message board. To save me having to sort through thousands of Fortune Marketing pages on google, does anyone have any personal experience with this company or any information my aunt should be aware of? Pyramid scheme calculator
(for my own reference later)

Tell me about Mary Kay.

oissubke — Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:36:46 -0800

My wife is considering getting into Mary Kay. The sales pitch sounds good, and everyone she knows who's involved with it has said it's a good thing. So naturally I'm suspicious that it's too good to be true. Is there a catch? Anyone had personal experience with Mary Kay?