Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with lighting

Table/Lamp integrated combo for my bedside for $50-$75?

curiositykilledthelemur — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:46:04 -0800

Table/Lamp integrated combo for my bedside for $50-$75? Hi! My extensive searching has failed me - I'm looking for two table and lamp integrated combos for my bedside, but all of the ones I see are extremely expensive. Does anyone know anywhere online where I could find one that looks kinda like this (magazine rack totally optional). Also, what are some good search engine words? googling "lamp table" and "table, lamp, combo/combination" still isn't narrowing it enough to the specific integration I'm looking for. My budget is under $75, which I do think is possible, if I can hit upon the proper site/search terms. I am absolutely flexible in terms of color and lamp types - just want one item to do two jobs. Thanks!

Help me build a good set without knowing what I'm doing.

Brainy — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 15:46:00 -0800

I have to build a forest set for a performance. I've never built a set before. What should I know? I'm in charge of a fall-themed performance. I would like the set to be fall themed: forest-y, pumpkin patch-y. I have literally never even approached this sort of thing and this is somewhat high profile so I'd like it to be good. It doesn't have to be elaborate, but I would like it to be impressive, even if it's just by being tasteful. Also, there might not be any time to set it up except day-of, so reliable ideas, or multiple options are good ideas.

I have a couple of friends who will be helping who are ex-hs theatre geeks/stage crew; but I'm not sure what sort of actual experience they have and I certainly haven't seen a portfolio. I can somewhat trust them to translate, but if not knowing what they know, it might be better if you can spell anything out.

The theatre itself is pretty big (80" x 60" stage, still waiting to hear the height) and quite full-featured in terms of lighting (I think, I'm worried we might have to pay extra).

Basically, I'm looking for ANY advice of ANY kind. I'd really appreciate it. Book advice is good, but I have a deadline of about a month so it might be tough to absorb it all. Budget is pretty small, under $1000.

Also, I'm pretty creative: graphic designer, illustrator, etc. I've just never translated it to 3D before.

What equipment do I need to take clear photographs of 2d artwork from above?

Nonce — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:52:04 -0800

What equipment do I need to take clear photographs of 2-d artwork from above? I'd like to keep costs low (under $200). The artwork would range in size, but some would be what I would consider pretty big (30" or perhaps more).

I found this DIY camera stand online.

I also found mention of tripods that can be used to shoot straight down.

Any specific model recommendations of tripod? Or particular models of old studio/copy stands that I should poke around and try to find online used?

Also, what inexpensive light source will give me good results? These bulbs seem to have a good color temperature and high CRI, but I don't know if that actually makes them an appropriate choice.

Dear Alderwoman, I did not enjoy my drive through a construction site in your ward. Plz advise.

limeonaire — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:38:37 -0800

Engineers, construction workers, and lawyers: How can I find out what the specific site safety requirements and statutes are for an under-construction commercial urban development site? Specifically, I'm looking to find out more about site-safety requirements in the city of St. Louis, Mo. I'm especially seeking information that might shed some light on what might be required in the way of erecting barriers, fences, and signs to keep the general public safely off roads and paths leading into construction sites.

Here's the specific circumstance that prompted this question:

Headed north on a local highway in the dark, amid a light drizzle, I took a city exit I'd never taken before. I soon I figured I'd best find a way to get back on the highway. I made a quick right at the first light I reached, then turned right again at the next light after that, hoping it might take me right back around to the highway on-ramp. (A look at Google Maps when I got home suggested that that's exactly what this road originally did.)

Unfortunately, the road quickly turned into an unlit, half-paved drive, surrounded by overgrown brush. The drive narrowed as I crested a small rise—only to find myself at the edge of a vast expanse of muddy gravel. The street, it seems, currently dead-ends in a vacant lot behind an under-construction Walgreens. The only way out, since this was a one-way street, appeared to be driving toward the already-constructed parking lot. So I drove slowly across the gravel, headed for the parking lot—only to find myself stuck in the mud right next to what turned out to be a new curb. After a series of fits and starts, I finally got my car unstuck—and came down with a big crunch on the other side of the curb.

Hyperventilating, I parked next to the building, where the light was better, and got out to check the car. Nothing creaked or popped or looked obviously broken, so after moving a traffic barrel blocking the new parking lot's only entrance/exit, I made my way back to the highway and drove home.

This morning, I moved my car and checked the pavement where I'd been parked, and saw several fresh oil spots. This car is only a couple years old and has never leaked anything in the time I've had it. So I took a flashlight and peered under the car, and it looked like the plastic cowling protecting the oil-filter area had come partially dislodged. I couldn't see anything else that looked obviously damaged, but clearly I'm going to need to take this in to the shop tomorrow so they can put it on the lift and repair the cowling and/or the oil-filter cap/gasket and/or anything else that might've been damaged.

Hence my initial query. I'm trying to figure out what recourse, if any, I have in terms of recovering damages in this situation (perhaps via small-claims court?)—and making sure it never happens to anyone else. I can't believe they don't have that street blocked off.

I plan to contact that ward's alderwoman first thing Monday. But I'd like to have something concrete to cite in my conversations with her and/or anyone else I have to deal with about this explaining what's wrong with the site, especially since the builder of this development is a very large company.

I found a few sections of the Missouri Revised Statutes that look as though they may apply: 319-035, 319-040, 319-041, 537.346, 537.348.

I also uncovered slides from a PowerPoint presentation on ANSI's A10.34 standard (Google's cached html version here), which, although only a voluntary-adoption measure, still provides some sense of what the baseline standards for construction-site public safety should be. The very first requirement listed? "Restricting public access to the jobsite – a site security plan." Along those lines, best practices listed include "100 percent fencing of the project site," "Use of easy to read signs," "Daily inspection of fences, locks and gates," "Daily inspection of traffic control devices," and "Night lighting or security service." The area of the site I ended up driving into had none of those things: no fences, no gates, no roadblocks, no signage, no lighting, no security.

So...are the statutes I uncovered relevant? Is this ANSI standard relevant? Does anyone know of anything more specific I should be reading about or anyone else I should be contacting at this point? Thanks for any help anyone can give me with this!

Wiring a dimmer for outlet use

davidriley — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:57:33 -0800

Basic wiring: can I put a clamp light on a dimmer? I want a cheap means of fading in and out lights for my makeshift light kit. The dimmer I bought only has one pair of wires, plus an extra red wire and a green ground. I want to send power in and out of the dimmer. Is this possible? Photos inside. http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1069/dimmer1.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1016/dimmer2.jpg

I need an 18" dome

orange swan — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:24:11 -0800

I need a new shade for a chandelier. Where can I find one? I broke the shade for my foyer chandelier and now I'm trying to figure out where I can get another. The shade is 18" in diameter, and dome style/shape with a hole in the middle. The original shade was a pale frosted expresso colour, but I could go with white or cream.

Home Depot doesn't carry shades of this size or special order them. They referred me to Sam the Chandelier Man at Queen and Roncesvalles in Toronto, and he didn't have a shade the right size but if he should find one for me it would cost about $85. I could get a new light fixture for that. Is this the going rate, and if not, where online/in Toronto can I find a glass shade that meets my specifications?

Where can I get those cute lights they hang on trees at Christmas?

basil1 — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:14:51 -0800

UK lighting gurus: where can I get those cute lights they hang on trees at Christmas? They come on a string, and look light normal lightbulbs, only a bit smaller.

Here is a picture: http://www.mintdesignblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/3634079094_aee71d48f1.jpg

I'm hoping this is just a thing that I can plug into the mains socket...

Thanks!

Light! More light!

altolinguistic — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:06:22 -0800

Help me light my office better! (constraints inside) I work in a converted basement, which is very nice but which has no window. I currently use two 100W-equivalent energy-saving bulbs in uplighters and an anglepoise desk lamp containing an 11W energy-saving bulb (equivalent to a 60W normal bulb, I believe).

I work at the computer most of the day and I find I am getting some eyestrain and feel more tired at the end of the day than I used to. I think improved lighting might help. I have had an eye test recently, and found that my myopia prescription has worsened in the last few years. I think new glasses would help with the eyestrain but I would also like to improve the lighting in my office.

I have also been suffering from slightly low mood recently - nothing terrible, but bordering on mild depression, and I wonder if my generally low exposure to daylight has something to do with this.

So what should I be looking for? Daylight bulbs? How do I know if I've found a good one? What form of lighting is best for my situation (uplighting, direct, ??)? Bonus points if any products are available to buy online for delivery to the UK.

Further constraint - I can't fit anything to walls or ceiling, as the cellar is tanked to make it waterproof, so any solution needs to be free-standing. There are two halogen spots built in to the ceiling, which don't do much to illuminate my workspace.

What shade should I put on this lamp?

arnicae — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:53:48 -0800

I just found this funky diamond shaped lamp and am not sure what it is, or what kind of lampshade would look right on it. It is a ceramic lamp with thin brass overlay running around the base and a (hand-carved, I think) wooden base. No obvious maker's marks. It looks old-ish, at least mid-60's because it has a woven flat electrical cord, which I think went out of common use around that time.

But the biggest question is what kind of shade I should put on it! I would love it to fit into our apartment which has a sort of simple, dark wood, craftsman style.

Anyone know anything more about this lamp, or have any lampshade suggestions? Thanks!

How can I improve these wall sconces?

6and12 — Mon, 11 May 2009 04:44:29 -0800

How can I cover or otherwise improve the ugly wall sconces in my apartment? My apartment has three of these very unattractive wall sconces--two in the living room and one in the bedroom. As you can see by the photo, they look like something you might twist to activate the secret door in the bookcase (no such luck). The on-off knob is the lower one. I've looked online and in hardware stores for shades for them, but I've never really found anything to my liking. Some shades with the wire mounts that go on top of the bulb itself look like they came out of a colonial bed and breakfast (no offense to colonial B&Bs, it's just not what I want at home). Others have a sleek 90's modern look that I also don't really care for.

I also found plans on Instructables for a shoji-style lamp that I could probably modify to cover the sconces, but I'm not wild about that either.

Currently I just avoid using two of the three sconces, and I use the other one occasionally with just the bare bulb (a GE Reveal, which is a little nicer, but still kind of harsh without a shade).

Can anyone suggest online sources that might offer a good selection of sconce shades, other DIY options, or other bulbs that would be tolerable without a shade?

What softbox/lights and an external outdoor battery would you recommend to an amateur photographer?

bostonhill — Sun, 03 May 2009 17:48:27 -0800

[Photography & Lighting] What softbox/lights and an external outdoor battery would you recommend to an amateur photographer? I've always wanted to shoot at some outside locations where there is no light so I figure a softbox/fill with an external batter of some 30 minutes or so would help me out but I don't know much about this area of photography and lighting.

Any tips are highly appreciated in advance.

Stunning photos how to

crewshell — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:19:15 -0800

How is this photography effect achieved? http://ny.vicaso.com/compare

How does this service capture the richness, detail, and lighting on the HD photo compared to the standard shot.

Tips on how to recreate this would be excellent. ( I have some photoshop experience and access to a Nikon D3 / D300)

Lighting up a Salt Lamp without electricity?

GJSchaller — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:41:52 -0800

Looking to power (light) a Himalayan Salt Lamp for about 48 hours, without using an outlet. My friends and I play in a Live RPG, where we will set up in a campsite that does not always have electricity available. One of the decorations we'd like to use are Himalayan Salt Lamps in various forms - some as lighting, some as props.

I have several lamps that run off a standard Nightlight Bulb, and have a power cord to plug into an outlet, but I don't have a power source. Ideally, they should be able to run for 48 hours straight, although 24 hours would be OK (Only at night, or when in use). The cord has a snap mechanism to hold it into the lamp, so if I were to use a different power source, I'd need to replace the holding mechanism or find a new one.

I was thinking a computer UPS, but I don't know the power usage / metrics to figure out the one I need to last that long. It would be one lamp per battery / location.

Home Lighting Basics

bouchacha — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:42:30 -0800

I'm looking for a detailed and thorough guide on home lighting principles and ideas. Where is this source? Right now all I have is the default lighting my apartment came with (this means bright overhead lighting in every room, yuck). I'm looking to spruce things up and making the lighting environment more comfortable and more relaxed and I'd like the basics in accomplishing that.

When should I consider track lighting? What kind of bulbs should I be looking for given the plethora of brands and types? What mounting structures should I consider? What about control mechanisms? etc etc etc

You can't be too detailed when it comes to this and I'm surprised that this topic isn't discussed more given how much of a difference lighting makes. Lay it on me!

The unbearable darkness of our studio

shmegegge — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:00:45 -0800

What are the go to guides for learning to light in production environments? specifically, I'd like a resource (in book or other form) to learn about lighting sound stages for video production. our studio right now has plenty of decent lights, but not enough know how to compellingly light a scene.

Inexpensive fluorescent lantern/lamp with 12 volt option?

ae4rv — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:02:09 -0800

Fluorescent lantern suggestions for emergency home use? We've endured a total of 14 days without electricity in the past six months due to a wind storm and an ice storm. I have a portable 12V battery with "cigarette lighter" ports, a powered USB port and built-in LED floodlight, and of course, several flashlights. But next time I want a fluorescent lantern to compliment the battery. Trouble is, it's very hard to find a lantern that can also be powered by an external 12V source - most use internal D cells and that's it. Coleman makes a rechargeable one that can be charged (and presumably used) with an external 12V source, but I don't want to introduce the inefficiencies that I associate with the charging circuit. And rechargeable batteries typically have a shelf-life. And it's a little 'spensive.

Any suggestions? Don't want to spend too much...<$25.

PS: Should I just buy a 12V fluorescent bulb with built-in ballast and rig it up to a regular lamp with a homemade power adapter? Also, hacking an eight D-cell lantern to work with an external source has occurred to me, but I want to avoid that if possible.

Any advice, particularly construction/fabrication related, for this lighting oriented site-specific installation?

carnival of animals — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:26:51 -0800

A couple of friends and I are organising a site-specific installation for the Smart Light Festival (flash w/ sound) to be held in Sydney from May 26 to June 14 this year. While I would appreciate any advice on bringing an installation like this to fruition, I was hoping specifically to get feedback on our plans to pre-fabricate the components (basically if they seem feasible, and if there are cheaper more efficient ways of going about it, how to use less energy, and especially how we could reuse or recycle the materials). I apologise for the very open-ended question, but as this is still in the concept phase I felt it wasn't appropriate for MeFi Projects. Here are some early renders and some background information on the festival, including the brief (PDF) we went by.

The festival will roughly coincide with the government's plans to phase out incandescent lightbulbs, and is designed to emphasize the importance of energy efficient lighting and the issue of light pollution. Our expression of interest was recently accepted and we are still in the planning phase, but hope to have sponsors on board and shop drawings complete for fabrication by the end of this month. The three of us are graduated architecture students.

What it is
A miniaturized abstraction of the Sydney CBD in the form of about 40 to 50 lanterns, ranging from about half a metre to 2 metres tall, with LED spotlights illuminating them from within. The lanterns correspond to city blocks; the colour of the lanterns to the level of energy consumed by each block, and the light pollution emitted.

Aim
We want the installation to be a thing of beauty, and an attraction. But once the visitor approaches, we want to invoke a certain sense of unease; to get them to question the source of the Sydney's night time beauty, and what it's costing the Earth. We hope to do this mainly through sound -- by creating a kind of ambient track using samples of buildings 'humming' (air conditioners, background noise of plumbing, etc.), which intensifies as the visitor approaches.

Site
If things go to plan, the installation will be in the forecourt of Customs House (google map). This is a very public space along Sydney Harbour, with a lot of through traffic. Our installation is one of many along the festival's 'light walk'.

There's also a lot of night lighting, but we will ask that as much as possible be turned off while the installation is on (about 5 to 11pm?). If possible we want to power the lights using car batteries which have been discarded with some juice left in them. (A lighting consultant we talked to suggested this.) We'll have mains power for speakers.

Lanterns
We want to pre-fabricate the lantern frames out of galvanized or painted mild steel, roughly in the shape of a box kite frame. We are in contact with a steel fabricator about this, but are wondering if there is a more environmentally friendly option, as we aren't sure what to do with the steel afterwards. (Our university might take it for their metal workshop, but not 40-50 lanterns worth!) The problem is that the lanterns need to be weatherproof, vandalproof, and relatively idiotproof (public liability) for the 3 weeks the festival. Same thing with the fabric 'sock' that will go over the frame. We're wondering if heavy-duty calico will do the trick?

Lights
A lighting consultant we talked to about this suggested that LED spotlights (shaped like a halogen uplight, but with a dozen or more LEDs as the light source) would be our best, most energy efficient option. The largest red lantern in the renders will hold a locked box containing the car batteries/other power source, LED controllers, and a laptop/ipod shuffle for the sound. We are not crystal clear on where the power outlets are, but were told they will be at the north end of the forecourt. As we may have to fence the installation (not our choice), running wire between lanterns shouldn't be a problem.

We're not of one mind about this, but we were also thinking about dangling/suspending individual LEDs closer to the surface of the lanterns, which briefly fade on and off at irregular, fairly infrequent intervals to simulate the turning on and off of lights, and to give the installation some movement visually. This might be over-complicating the already substantial challenge of wiring up all this lighting though.

(I was wondering if there might be a way to do this using something like LED throwies, but that's a lot of batteries to dispose of, and how to turn them on/off?)

Sponsorship
I shouldn't go into detail, but we are hoping to get donations in the form of materials from the manufacturers of any products we use, and may offer some space on the information panel on the largest red lantern, plus other exposure (such as on our website, any printed material) to other potential sponsors. Is there anything else we might do to attract sponsors, and give them value for the money they contribute? (We want to avoid 'branding' the lanterns as much as possible.)

Thanks!

Now...In 3-D!

mattdidthat — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:10:00 -0800

With what imaging software was the new Sci-Fi Channel logo created? The logo looks like it was built from cardboard or HD polyurethane foam and then photographed, but I'm certain it's not that simple, and I don't think its creators used Photoshop--I think they used a 3-D modeling program. Note the different lighting effects and shadows here, and here.

What 3-D modeling programs would I use to create those effects? Are they compatible with Illustrator CS4? I'm on a Mac.

What kinds of light bulbs and trims can I put in my ceiling-recessed light cans?

Nelson — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:05:08 -0800

What kinds of light bulbs and trims can I put in my ceiling-recessed light cans? My bedroom is too dark and I'm curious what my options are for getting more light from the existing lighting. I'm looking for a website or catalog that explains options for what trims can be installed in the can and what kinds of bulbs there are.

I've got some regular 120V ceiling cans in my bedroom, ordinary incadescent bulb socket, controlled by a solid state Lutron dimmer. Can diameter is 3.5" inside. Right now they have 50 watt incadescent floods in them and then a trim that covers half the bulb so there's a 1.75" hole for the light to come out. It's too dark. I tried replacing one bulb with a 60W halogen and took the trim out and it's noticeably brighter.

Now I'm curious how to get a replacement trim that lets more light out. And also exactly what kinds of bulbs I can put in the fixture, balancing brightness, colour, heat, and energy efficiency. I'm also interested in replacing some trims in other parts of my house to, say, wash a wall.

Bonus question: if anyone has personal experience with a good fluorescent bulb that actually works with a solid state Lutron dimmer, I'd love to hear about it.

Light bulbs blowing way too much

atm — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 04:44:56 -0800

I replaced my kitchen over-the-sink fluorescent light with two incandescent pendant lights, and also added halogen under-cabinet lights on the same wiring, so that they all come on when you flip the switch. I did the wiring myself. Within the first couple of months at first 4-5 out of the 8 halogens went out and had to be replaced. Those aren't going out as much anymore, but the incandescent lights are burning out more than ever. What happens is that when I flip the switch, one or both of them will blink for several seconds, then pop and it's cloudy black and burned out. I doubt it matters but they're the kind with the little small screw base, like a small version of the standard incandescent bulb base. I know the electrical connections in the switch box and the box above the sink are the prime suspects, but I've opened the boxes and the connections all seem to be good. I'm going through several bulbs a month at this point. Does anyone know what could be causing this?

Enlighten my patio.

halogen — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:44:34 -0800

Does this lamp exist? I need a motion-activated flood/security light for the fenced patio right outside my bedroom, but I also want it to stay dimly lit during the remainder of the night and turn itself off in the morning. It needs to be weatherproof, and ugly is okay.

Gear needed and/or methods to use to take a decent headshot/portrait photo

docgonzo — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:01:04 -0800

Please help a landscape photographer take a decent headshot. I'm a serious amateur photographer (read: I've got a decent digital SLR) that has been volunteered to take photos for use in a fundraising publication at work. These photos will mostly consist of headshots and groups shots, taken indoors, of busy people who'd rather be doing something else.

I'm hoping for two parts of advice: First, whether it would be in my interests to invest in any gear. I have an SLR, a Speedlight 800 and enough lenses to get through. Do I need an umbrella? One of those reflective thingies?

Second, as my use of the wholly technical term "reflective thingies" indicates, I need advice on how to set up and take the shot. I've read Strobist enough to know that I should light the shot with off-camera flash and try to balance ambient with artificial light. Cool. How best to set up the camera, speedlight, other lighting gear and subject to get a semi-decent result? I'm looking less for Karsh than more for something well-lit without the blown-out look of bad flash photography. Any advice on methods or materials appreciated!

Help a plus-sized gal be sexy in a photoshoot!

derogatorysphinx — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:24:28 -0800

My boyfriend is very much into photography. I would love to be the subject of one of his photo shoots. What advice can you give a plus sized gal about pose, lighting, clothes, etc? (Slightly NSFW link inside) So I'm about a size 16. This isn't really a large problem (pardon the pun) for either my boyfriend or I, but I really want to do a sultry, probably black and white, photo shoot so we can enjoy the pictures together. I'd prefer not to look like a house, so flattering poses and such are necessary.

I'm kind of at a loss for what to wear, how to light the scene, etc. Both of us know quite a few things about photography, but neither of us has much experience shooting people. Any advice from those who have modeled, been the photographer, or just throwing your two cents in would be greatly appreciated!

We have access to a Nikon D40X, D70, old 35 and 120mm film cameras, and a Canon 880IS. He has little lighting equipment other than a hot shoe flash cable.

If it helps, I own this:
http://www.torrid.com/torrid/store/product.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302035995&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442194790&bmUID=1235013645592

in black from Torrid, and several pairs of cute/sexy underwear involving lace and bows and other fancy bits.

Any advice is welcome! Thanks so much, MeFi.

I don't want to kill the actors, I just want them to look pretty

Navelgazer — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:03:05 -0800

Tips on theatrical haze machines. Doing lighting design for my first time on a production of Ruddigore. Central to my design plan is the use of a haze machine (as in, not a smoke machine) so that I can create a light gauze of color with my side lights.

I'm looking for general tips for these (such as which machines are worth the money or not, how to get the best coverage, and so forth) but my immediate concern is about whether I should go with water or oil-based haze. My brief research shows that oil-based smoke (which is much, much denser than haze) can cause respiratory problems, which doesn't really mix well with a bunch of people singing in a not-particularly-well-ventilated auditorium. However, oil haze can hang for around 6 hours, whereas water haze has about a 1-hour time. We're looking at a runtime of a little over 2 hours, and I'd rather my lighting effects not die out at the end of each act.

Any tips would be very welcome. Thank you.

How can I NOT set this craft on fire?

cranberrymonger — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:51:03 -0800

I'm trying to figure out how to colour some clear glass tea light holders to maximize sexiness and avoid flames. I'm trying to figure out how best to dimly light my bedroom. I have a set of clear glass tea light holders that look like this but are contained in a thin metal frame like these ones. Note that the tea lights are shorter than the holders so the light shines through the sides of the glass, not out of the top like in the second example.

They produce a good level of light but it's so yellow/white that it's not flattering. I think a pink, purple or red hue would work better, but I want to know how I should colour these holders.

Would tissue or thin decorative paper and decoupage work? Would paint? Are either of these likely to catch fire if I applied them to the inside of the holders? Any other suggestions?