Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with laidoff

Please help me figure out this snowflake-looking career pickle.

drea — Thu, 02 May 2013 03:21:36 -0800

I'm a manager in my field who, in moving to a new city, got into. Things were looking great, but unexpectedly the company shut down two weeks in. Now I'm looking for a managerial job again, and I need to know how to explain this. Coming from a senior management position in one city, I moved to another. The whole job search process took a grueling six months. At the last minute the offers started coming in. One of them was an offer for a management title -- with a way lower salary than my previous job -- albeit from the most recognizable company in the country.

The job that I did end up taking was a specialist position in the same department but a new field. The pay was higher than what I was earning in my last job. I loved my job and the people right away. But all of us got laid off when I was about to cap off my second week into the job.

Now, I'm looking for management positions again, but I don't know how to explain my career move by taking a specialist position in a way that will paint me better than just being "after the money". It just seems like a bad move to just settle back into a nonmanagerial position and for less pay: a one step forward, three steps backward situation that I don't think I'd be able to recover from. I can't move back into my old city, either; there's a reason I left.

TL;DR question: from senior manager to specialist and now looking for a management job again: how do I make it happen without looking unsuitable?

what's the best way to leave a job if you don't already have another one

lacedcoffee — Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:04:38 -0800

My boss and I agreed I am not right for my job. How can I be eligible for unemployment while not having a black mark of being fired for future employers? My boss and I came to the conclusion that I am not right for my job. He is being very understanding and is willing to work out an agreement with me. Provided that I am not able to get another job within the time frame (let's say 3 months), what's the best way for me to leave that ensures unemployment benefits (I'm in California) while not leaving a black mark on me for future employers? I've read if I quit, I cannot get unemployment. Is the alternative to be fired? But in order to be eligible for unemployment, it will need to be through no fault of my own. And would I have to tell future employers that I was fired? What's the best way to navigate this situation? Thanks!

Severance pay, yay or nay?

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:18:02 -0800

Should I ask for severance pay in California? I was laid off/fired from my job last Thursday. I had been on a performance plan for about three months and was finally let go. I think that my manager and his manager were completely unfair, but it was ultimately a bad fit for me and leaving gives me a sense of relief.

I wasn't offered severance pay, but the HR person did not have my final check ready during the firing meeting - it was over nighted to me. A few people I've talked to asked me if I got severance pay. I hadn't asked for it and they didn't offer it and I'm wondering if I'm eligible or if it's customary in cases like this. It looks like there are a few special conditions for people over 40, which I am, but I'm not sure what, if anything, is appropriate in this case.

If it looks like a layoff, smells like a layoff...

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 06:19:16 -0800

Coming off of a leave of absence and being told my job no longer exists -- is it still a layoff if I don't take the new job they are offering that is a step down? Finishing up my maternity leave, and being told there is some restructuring afoot. The job I had previously no longer exists, and instead it has been replaced with a new job description that is quite a bit more junior. I'm being offered this job, or the ability to take severance. Since it is being offered to me as a choice that I make, does this mean I am essentially resigning instead of being laid off if I do not take them up on the offer of the position?

Surprised With Being Let Go, Networking/Job Search 101 plz?

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:56:55 -0800

I was let go from my job last week - it was kind of a surprise, but I'm bouncing back and I was looking to leave the company anyway, so I'm not too broken up about that. I am not thrilled about the prospect of job hunting while unemployed (would have preferred to have landed a new job first) and am trying to get a handle on my next steps. I have some Networking 101-type questions that I need help with, as well as some questions about how best to frame what happened at the last job to recruiters/prospective new leads/interviewers, and how to best avoid ever being in this same situation ever again. Hi everyone. I am posting this anonymously since it is employment-related, but I am going to try to provide as much context as possible to make my questions clear and am willing to provide more details through the mods if need be. Going to try to avoid this being too much of a wall of text, but it might be tricky.

Last week I was "let go" from my job. It was a surprise to me, as they had given me an 11% merit raise the week before. I had an evaluation at the start of the new year with the two people I report to and they said that while there were still a few things I could improve on (I had only just taken the job spring of 2011, so about 9 months), on the whole things were looking fine, so I was getting this merit raise. We had what I thought was a productive and respectful conversation about the areas in which I was doing well and the areas in which I could improve, and I made a few suggestions as to resources I might need in order to improve in those areas, the main one being that I wanted to have weekly "check in" departmental meetings - which is something that has happened in every place I've worked before - to go over how things are going and stay on top of anything that can be corrected immediately. (The management style of this company is very "hands off", and both of my managers were/are extremely overextended dealing with larger issues the company is currently facing, and they are not always able to pin down since they are frequently in meetings and not at their desks, so I was clear that I wasn't looking for hours and hours of hand-holding, just a 5-10 minute check-in/rundown once a week would suffice, just to make sure we were all communicating consistently.) They seemed amenable to that, and then they said that they were giving me this pay increase, so I thought things were fine.

One week later, I'm told that I'm being let go essentially because they "do not have the time or resources" to provide me with the training I would need to improve on the areas they felt needed improvement. I felt pretty blindsided by this. The company works in a field that is related tangentially to the industry that I have worked in for the past 5 years (since college), and I originally took the position because I was looking for a challenge and my skills seemed like they would translate over fairly easily with a bit of training. And it seems they did, but not enough? Or not fast enough? Or something? Even though they did give me a merit raise? It was a bit confusing. When I asked for clarification, I was told that they were really hoping when they filled the position that they wouldn't have to provide any training, that they could just give me a once over of the place and the software and let me have at it. I found this a little odd, since they had never suggested anything as such before, and I also think it's weird to think that a company can get away with bringing in a new hire without providing any sort of training whatsoever - they would have to find someone who has years and years of experience in exactly this type of function in order to do that, and someone with that much experience isn't going to be interested in being given an entry-level salary, crappy economy or not. Not to mention it just seems irresponsible and slightly delusional to think that you wouldn't have to train a new employee.

Anyway, I said that in my resume and in both rounds of interviews I did with them before taking the position I had been very clear what my experience was, that I was looking to take the job as a challenge because I was looking to learn more, and I had not misrepresented myself. Moreover, my three references all verified what my experience was as well, and did not misrepresent me either. They agreed and said that it was their error, that they had read into my resume and what I and my references presented to them erroneously, and didn't do enough due diligence before offering me the job. Because it was their error, they offered me a severence package that pays me in full (at the new pay rate as of last week) until March 1 and covers my health insurance until March 1, after which I will be elligible for Cobra. So basically, six weeks' severence. Oh, and they'll give me a positive reference if I need one.

I felt a bit like the rug had been pulled out from under me, but on another level I was a bit relieved because I had not been a fan of the workplace culture - they have been around for over 20 years but still operate a bit like a start-up, with no clear division of duties or documented procedures, and pretty much everything is done at the last minute in a mad rush of panic and stress, and it was making me miserable. It was also a very passive-aggressive work culture - I would listen to my immediate manager on the phone with various work contacts and I was uncomfortable with how unbelievably rude she was to them. I don't think berating people who are integral to keeping the company working is the way to go, no matter how stressed you may be, and I found that after she had raked people over the coals it was often difficult to get things moving again, as our contacts would be reluctant to engage with us lest they be sniped at. I was preliminarily putting out feelers to see if I could get another job, but I didn't think I was going to have to act on it quite so quickly. I mean, they gave me a freaking merit raise! Why would they give me a merit raise if they were going to let me go a week later? And if my performance was an issue, why did it only come up for the first time during the evaluation, during which they still gave me a merit raise? It makes no sense to me.

Anyway, I am moving on and trying not to dwell too much on what happened. I read this recent post (http://ask.metafilter.com/204186/How-do-I-rebound-from-being-fired) and it's helped me a bit with regards to how to put all of this in perspective. I know going forward I'm going to be better about keeping lines of communication open and asking for feedback on my performance consistently, and not taking a "no news is good news" attitude. My main concern, though, is the issue of them having creatively interpreted my resume, my interview answers, and the statements of my references, assuming that I would not need any baseline training for a new position. How do I avoid this happening again? I've revamped my resume once more and made the verbiage as clear as possible without dumbing it down, and I've had several friends and respected former colleagues from my previous workplaces vet it (including those who provided references for this last job) and nobody sees any indication that I am presenting myself falsely. I did a mock interview on Friday with my college's career counseling office and did not come off as presenting myself falsely in that arena, either. I do not want this kind of miscommunication to ever happen again - it is frustrating and humiliating and makes me feel defensive, which isn't really the greatest attitude to present to the world.

Other questions I have are of the more Networking 101 sort - I am applying to job postings, but I know that most jobs are not obtained this way (although this last job was the result of getting called after responding to an ad on Monster, of all places). A former colleague gave me the email addresses of a few people who work in my industry who might be open to chatting in an informational interview sort of way, but I literally have never set up anything like this before and am worried that I'm going to seem like a dolt. What do I say? "Hi [person], I am a fellow [job title] and am hoping to get employement in [city] doing [our job] - [mutual colleague] gave me your contact info, would you be open to meeting me for coffee sometime and giving me some insight as to what the next steps might be for me to find employmeng doing [our job]?" Isn't that awfully forward?

I've also read that it's useful to contact people who work for companies you'd someday like to work for and request informational interviews similarly, even if you don't know them. This seems really forward and almost gauche to me, but I'm an introvert so my barometer of what is offensive contact is skewed. I am in several industry specific LinkedIn groups and there are a few people who work for companies I am interested in who are in these groups as well, so in theory I could contact them via LinkedIn. Is this okay to do? In all cases I'm third degree connected to them (meaning that they know someone who knows someone who knows me), so trying to get a straight up intro from someone we both know is unlikely. Is the fellow group connection enough to make the request? I just worry that they will find me annoying. Any tips to get over this, or other suggestions for networking best practices would be appreciated.

Lastly, how do I explain to recruiters/HR people what happened with my last job? I guess technically I was let go for performance issues, but given the generous severance, the admission that they made a mistake in the way they creatively interpreted my resume (not to mention the fact of the merit raise one week before, suggesting that performance was in fact NOT a problem) and that they don't have the time to give me the further training I need suggests something more akin to I left because "it was a bad fit." But then, wouldn't that work better if I had been the one to leave first? I do not want to lie, but I do not want to present this in a way that makes me look bad, either. Can I say I was laid off? What constitutes a layoff? Or is "bad fit" sufficient? I might be registering with some temp agencies soon in order to bring in income if finding permanent work before my severance runs out proves to be unlikely; is this something I will have to explain to them, too? It's been so long since I temped and I obviously wasn't coming in with this having just happened...

TL;dr - I was let go last week out of the blue after receiving a merit raise; they claim they made a mistake in hiring me because they misinterpreted my experience despite my (and my references) having been very clear about it. How do I avoid this happening again, how do I network without looking like a douche, how to I explain what happened without shooting myself in the foot, and how do I avoid allowing this to destroy my self-esteem?

panicking over a lay off

FunkyHelix — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 11:14:01 -0800

Husband laid off in time for Christmas, now what? Ok. Assume we've got the message of find a new job.

Husband was only breadwinner. I am a stay-at-home mother of an autistic child and parental caretaker for my legally blind mother using a rollator. We have saved half our rent and that's it.

Suggest long lasting cheap stuff for the pantry and steps we can take to survive until one of us gets a new job.

Cheap but still healthy dog and cat food too?

What should I do to prepare to be unemployed?

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:08:36 -0800

It seems increasingly likely that my company is about to go belly up, probably in the next 2-4 months. What should I be doing to prepare for this eventuality? I've felt like this has been coming for a while. Cash has been tight for years but things are really starting to look dire. I have no specific knowledge of when the doors might shut, but we're a small company so the signs can't be hidden very well. I'd like to prepare as much as possible for this but I've never had it happen before so I don't know what I should be thinking about or doing. Help me make a checklist for impending unemployment.

I have only about $500 in consumer debt, which will be paid off this month. However, I have very little (less than $1000) in savings. There are a few things I feel I should be spending money on, like getting the brakes done in my car (the car is >10 years old but runs great except for the brakes squealing for the last month). Maybe I should also be stocking up on medications, or trying to get a new pair of glasses (I'm very dependent on them and my prescription is such that new lenses need to be very customized and cost upwards of $500)? I should probably see my doctor before the health insurance goes away, right?

I've updated my resume and have started to apply for some jobs, but I work in a pretty "who you know" kind of field. Re-engaging my network is right on top of my list. I also have a very small side business, so I'm trying to work on getting more clients for that - when I don't have a day job it might be easier, but I'm also wary of making it too big because it couldn't sustain me outright and I need it to work with a regular day job in the future.

Because of my previously profligate spending habits, I am set for things like clothes for interviews, etc. for a looooong time. I have no dependents, save a cat, but also no one else who pays my bills. My family lives in another country and while they would be willing to help me, moving back there is out of the question. I've cut down my cable TV already, have started to turn down social invitations that I know will cost money (except if I think I can use them to network somehow), etc. I am really really terrible with saving money and I know it's going to bite me now, but I've maintained a stellar credit rating and have never had to ask anyone for any help. My regular bills are not outrageous, I just have a history of taking off to Europe for a couple of weeks when I feel like it. Obviously that has stopped!

What am I not thinking of? What do you wish you still had done while you still had the job? I have quite a lot of time on my hands during my days since business is so slow so anything I can do sitting at my desk would be great because it would help me feel better about being here where it's just super depressing every day.

(Anonymous because I post under my regular first name and I'd rather not have this tied to that)

Pink slip lunch

postel's law — Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:37:26 -0800

Restaurant recommendations in Washington D.C. for my goodbye lunch at work. Dupont Circle area best. Difficulty: I'm being laid off. My boss asked me to give her a list of restaurants I'd like to go to. I live in Baltimore so even though I work in D.C. I don't know the restaurant scene very well, beyond the usual takeout lunch spots. Since my soon to be former employer is paying for the entire group (maybe 8-10 people), the restaurant needs to be reasonably priced and have an appropriately sized place to sit.

I suppose this question might be easier to answer if you know what kinds of restaurants I like. I'm open to most types of cuisine, though I'm not a big fan of seafood. I particularly like Italian and Afghan food. I'd also prefer someplace where I can hear myself think let alone talk to the person across the table. And because it's a workday lunch, alcohol isn't an option.

I get along well with the relevant coworkers (I drafted the invite list). However, I'm not close to most of them. I tend to keep work and personal life separate, and the long commute has been a barrier to grabbing beers after work.

Sorry if this question rambles a bit. I keep thinking of other bits of information which might help. The whole thing is awkward and depressing, since I'm the only person being laid off (out of a team of four in an organization of hundreds). The right restaurant isn't going to make this less awkward, but hopefully I can get a good meal.

Tips on bouncing back after being fired

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 10:06:57 -0800

What can I do to bounce back after being fired? Last December, the company I had worked at for many years essentially shut its doors due to money issues. In January, after only a few weeks of looking, I managed to find a very high paying position in my field that offered benefits... beyond rare. I worked there until two weeks ago, when I was let go with no notice or severance. They said they are outsourcing my division to another company, but I am pretty sure I am the only one that was let go. I was fired before people that were hired after me. I guess it doesn't matter either way.

I have never been fired like this, and, man, it's really hard to handle. I worked hard at this job. I enjoyed not having to worry about money for the first time in my life, and I looked forward to working there at least to the end of the year (despite the culture not being a great match for me.) Now I am coping with being fired after only a few months.

I applied for unemployment, and I think I will have insurance through other means, but I have some serious cash flow problems and I am just super depressed. I know a lot of the depression is just pride fucking with me, but I just feel so hopeless about finding another job. I work in a very competitive field and this job was basically a one in a million position. I just feel like I lost a lot of my confidence. I know this is something a lot of people go through. I am know what I am feeling is not unique, but it's unique to me as I somehow managed to make it to my mid-30s without being fired. But here I am now, in my mid-30s still scrounging for dollars hoping to make it through the month. I thought I had reached a bit of a plateau, but I am find myself in a deeper ravine than before.

I was hoping some of you out there might have some advice for me. I am not so much interested in advice on how to land a job, but more about how I can regain my confidence and bounce back after this huge disappointment.

Throwaway email: ilostmyjobmefi@gmail.com

Thanks for any advice.

Was I fired with cause or not?

Astragalus — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:46:49 -0800

I was "let go" from work the other day - I had already been on probation due to a bad review. The review was full of incorrect statements, which I had proof of but I didn't put up a fuss. I was given requirements to fulfill to show improvement. I met those times 3. They let me go anyway. I said that I had gone way farther even than I was asked to in the requirements, so why are you letting me go? The reason was "The decision has been made." I want to know, is this considered with cause, and can I get unemployment? BTW this is in Mass. When I started there (as a quant developer on an interest rates trading desk) it was a new role, and they had no boss for me. I was constantly wondering what to do but I had a short list of projects so I worked on them until I basically ran of things to do. I would work on a project, improving it, until I was asked to do something else. I worked constantly and if I had nothing to do I would either come up with something or work more improving other stuff I'd done.

On my review I gave myself 3s out of 5s, "met expectations" - the traders whom I supported gave me all 1's (the worst possible) and said things like "I asked him to do this or that and he never did" - the things they referred to were sitting on my hard drive, done almost as soon as I was asked and waiting to be looked at. Traders of course don't have time for anything, but I would say "I did what you asked so come by when you want to check it out" and they often wouldn't. Other things they complained about were strange and vague like "he sometimes spaces out at meetings" - ok caught me there. Another was a project that they said took me months too long to complete. In fact it was complete and working within weeks, but this one trader would constantly ask me to add features, make trivial changes, etc., which I did. I asked him if he minded if I worked on other stuff in the meantime since it was working already working, but no. I was finally given a boss to whom I explained my situation and he was very sympathetic and gave me much better ratings.

Anyway after the review I was put on probation, and they said I had 90 days to improve and gave me list of projects and times I had to do to show improvement. 3 of the projects I had finished ages ago, and the rest of them I killed in about a fourth of the time allotted. I was also given another, direct boss to report to (not the nice guy) My boss complained that I would leave at 5, and sometime show up as late as 8:30. So I immediately started getting there at 8 sharp and leaving at 6. He complained that I would take breaks, in particular for lunch, so I stopped and skipped lunch. He then, amazingly, asked me to lie on my timesheets to say I was there only 40 hours a week even though I was required to work from 8-6 every day. I politely explained to him that I was non-exempt and that I was not comfortable lying, federal law, etc. He said do it anyway because he kept his own records and knew I worked longer and it was just a screw up that they had made me non exempt. The next day I messed up big time and put my alarm on radio instead of alarm and woke up at 11. I called him immediately, apologized profusely and offered to work till 9 to make up for the 3 hours. So I came in and he talked me in a way that was seriously beyond disrespectful. Of course I had made an honest mistake, the first time it had ever happened and I had been working 10 hrs a day for weeks before that.

After the way he talked to me I hit my limit and went up to HR to quit. Lucky for me, the HR guy wasn't in the office. So I worked the rest of the day, then they called me into the office and said "we're letting you go." OK - wasn't exactly heartbroken because I hated that place but I said, I've been working 8 to 6 despite my honest mistake today; I had finished my project the night before so there was nothing important that I missed (didn't actually say that part), and that I'd finished all my requirements in less than half the time allotted, plus a few extra ones, so why were they letting me go? "the decision was made" was their answer. I later asked again if they could tell me why and got verbatim the same answer. I asked about my career, to the effect of, how badly is my career screwed now? If another company calls and asks why I left etc, what do you tell them, and he said we only tell them the dates you worked here, literally nothing else. OK fine, then I politely thanked them and left.

My question is: was I fired with cause? Am I eligible for unemployment benefits? And how much must I tell my next interviewer?

Why yes, I do want my UC cake.

sio42 — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:16:00 -0800

There are many askme questions where answers are given that say "Have you asked to be laid off?". Have you or anyone you know done this successfully? My company is not laying off - when people leave or are let go or retire, they are just redistributing duties and not rehiring. I am preparing to leave my job (finally!). I have not given my two weeks' yet. I have a meeting on Thursday with the temp agency that got me this job. I'm going back to school (finally figured that out too.), so I'm just looking for some PT easy receptionist type stuff which they are happy to help with.

My boss already knows I'm unhappy here. I'm still doing the work and I'm not completely checked out, but he never expected me to stay either (he told me that after i started here - i was just the most capable person they were able to find after 6 months of searching). Working PT here is not an option. That has come up before. I need to be here "in case" something goes wrong so I can be the one to call in the ticket and be a sort of middle-man for the tech. I'm not really a tech of any sort.

I know that their UC insurance might go up if I file a claim, but I have no idea how that works. If I could get UC and go to school, that'd be great. But I'm not going to school for anything related to my job here, so I can't use that as an "excuse" for getting laid off.

I'm not trying to scam the system, but since it's been suggested and some people have said they've done it, I'd like to hear how it worked and what specifically you did/said/etc. How do I even know if my boss is the one I should ask? Since we were nationalized recently, my HR person isn't even in this state. Fun.

(i did search, but most answers were a few years old. i'm looking for anyone who has done this recently and anyone who has done this with a large nonprofit.)

Job Search Paralysis Thanks to Fear of Inability to Prevent Layoff From Next Job

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:56:33 -0800

I've been, for a while, what economists would call a discouraged worker; in most ways I gave up trying. Lately, I'm trying to marshal my spirit, resolve and grit together and get back out onto the job market. One of the biggest emotional problems I'm having is a fear of being let go again within a few months of this hypothetical new hire. It's really demotivating me and sapping the energy out of my efforts. Months ago, the realization first came to me that people were being hired and then laid off months later, and such a circumstance has been a background anxiety in my mind since first hearing of it.

This is probably in part due to my layoff being one that was solely one of economic purpose. At my last employer, I was fairly beloved and consistently received high reviews, but their central office dictated specific layoffs (this number of people in this department in order of least senior) and despite having been there for quite a while, I didn't make that cut.

It had nothing to do with my performance, and I think that THAT is what haunts me ... that you can do a great job, that you can make yourself very valuable to a company, and that such things can end up mattering not one whit. It puts the issue of preventing a future layoff completely out of my hands. I can go into that job determined to be the best employee I can be, make them go, "My God, I'm sure glad we hired Anonymous!", and get my walking papers the next day, with their local management equally as regretful as I.

I don't know how to prevent being traumatized by this again. This was a fucked-up thing to happen me – although one I admit was hardly unique to me – and I don't know how to prevent its reoccurrence, or even what to do to contribute against its reoccurrence -- if one can be great at a job and still have faceless bureaucrats in another city ruin your life, what the hell do you do?

I don't know if I could handle all this again -- or maybe even a worse state of affairs than "all this", since I might only able to rebuild my economic circumstances partially before a new fall would occur. You say "save, save, save"? I'm with you there: I have methodical plans for efficient use of a future paycheck in recreating an emergency fund, but I can't see that fund being able to take another unemployment hit until at the very least a good nine to twelve months of savings goes by. And what with "claim years", I don't know as I'd have much new unemployment coming in after such a future layoff.

How do I get over this fear, so that I can launch myself into my job search with no -- or far less -- trepidation? It's humiliating to admit, but, honestly, I'm just outright batshit scared. The batshit-scaredness is taking up way too much headspace inside my skull, and I'm sick of that -- it's counterproductive and not fun to boot.

Laid off while on leave, denied unemployment in California...

crabintheocean — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:24:50 -0800

(Asking for a friend). My friend was laid off from his salaried job in California last year (employer ran out of money, usual story). He was on vacation at the time and had had to take unpaid leave to go on the (long ago arranged) vacation, as the employer did not offer any paid leave. He was told in his last week off that he didn't have a job to return to. He was denied unemployment by CA EDD, and given the reason that he had left his job voluntarily. That's not true, as he had been expecting to return and his employer wanted him back on a set and pre-arranged date. The ex-employer is not contesting the claim.

The only thing I can think of as a lay person (who deals often with labor issues but not EDD) that makes this sound tricky is that his last paycheck was for July, and he was laid off effective the start of September, meaning perhaps that he was not technically on payroll when he was laid off. Is this an issue?

Now his appeal is coming up, he has a letter of support from the ex-employer, and a couple of emails from the original arrangement of the leave, although not many. He does not have any documentation of the lay-off, it all happened verbally and he didn't push as he was hoping at the time to be re-hired in a month or two.

This all seems crazy to me, you lose your right to unemployment because you were away at the time you got the news? Can anyone tell me if this is correct in California, if my friend has any chance of winning his appeal, and if there's anything else that might help him win his case?

Thanks!

How do I rid myself of a bitter "fuck you" attitude I'm now feeling towards ANY future employer?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:41:07 -0800

I am bitter towards companies in general, and that's not a useful attitude to have as (hopefully) a round of January interviews approach. Help me. I was laid off more than a year ago. When I was laid off, I was told -- at some length -- about how the decision was not in any way, shape or form a reflection of how they felt about the job I had done for them. It was strictly based on seniority -- they were cutting many people that day, and of them, they were cutting the two most junior employees in the department in which I worked. I had been there for nearly three years, but I was still the second most junior employee in that department, and thus was shown the door. (Parenthetically, I have an educated guess that the local human resources employees who laid me off that day had next to no slack on who was selected; I am pretty sure the company's central office micromanaged precisely which cuts were made from where with no input from local HR. Some of the people let go elsewhere were bulwarks of that company who, if local HR had any input, would almost definitely have been kept.)

At the job prior to this last one from which I was laid off, I was fired. It was good that I got fired, because it shocked me into realizing a faulty tenet that I had been carrying around until then: that somehow, some inherent sense of justice in the universe meant that I was "owed" a place to go where I could give them my labors and they would give me money in return. I still don't think I did a poor job there, but there were a number of significantly distracting and very large-scale personal issues going on in my life that really prevented me from giving my all, and in retrospect, my firing was understandable, if not kind.

That changed at my next employer. I grew to actually really like that company. I devoted myself to my job, and brought all my skills and talents to it. I went above and beyond; I was constantly given sterling reviews and better-than-the-company's-average annual salary bumps. I was one of those guys that everyone feels fairly warmly towards. I was always willing to offer anyone a helping hand if I could possibly do it. I was never even asked to do it, but I gave them a lot of free overtime, cumulatively, figuring that being asked to stay late 20 minutes or so wasn't bad, especially as the company was equally flexible with the extremely occasional moments I needed a little give.

The tenet I began to form at this employer -- again, subconsciously -- was one I think a lot of people share. If you give an employer your best, and make yourself as invaluable and as good a "buy" for their salary money as possible, then you're a valuable asset and the company will accordingly continue employing you.

Now, it feels as if that can't be relied upon either, and the replacement proposition one might form from my experience is: "An employer will be happy to fire you the moment its bottom line is threatened. It has absolutely no interest in you other than as a cog in its processes; if you're a bad enough worker, you'll break the machine and then they'll fire you. But they don't care if you're a particularly good cog, either. They'll swap you out the moment they want to."

And, to some extent, I know that's true. But it's also a deeply cynical worldview that inclines one to go around each and every day with an attitude of "Fuck you, [employer]!" And not only does that incline you towards being a poor employee, that also is just a poisonous emotion to have in your psyche about the place where you'll spend eight-plus hours of each day. I really don't want that emotional baggage in my head each and every day. Some other stuff has had me a lot happier in general, so I really don't want to be renting brainspace to this emotion for an indefinite lease.

I've not been confronted with the question yet because companies have simply not been hiring for my position for most of the past year, so interviews have been near non-existent. That is already showing signs of significantly changing next month.

How do I do this? How can I go to an employer and interview with them and not feel so deeply hostile towards a company that, as of yet, will have done nothing to deserve it?

How much worse can I feel?

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:58:33 -0800

I'm scared of the shame of being fired or laid-off, and I'd rather resign than be laid-off. Am I misreading all these signs or am I just burned out? I've been having some chest pains at work several days
this week, the result of having built up a lot of fear of being laid off or fired. I haven't done anything wrong at work, but the managing director (a lady in her mid-sixties)
of my small company had been treating me very rudely. Her office is right across from mine and, while she is a constant gossip and complainer, a few weeks ago, I heard her complaining about the amount of time I bill doing various reports (at the request of my supervisors who also have me bill it to a business development account and I routinely underbill the hours I've spent). When I first started doing these reports, she was very happy about them. Now, she's asked me multiple times if my reports are actually useful to anybody in our company. I've made it clear that I have no attachment to doing the reports and am happy to do whatever they want (I only do them when there isn't other work to be done), but that hasn't stopped the managing director from being extremely rude to me whenever we pass each other in the hall. She's barged into my office without knocking when my door was shut and just been extremely short and rude to me.

I've worked at this place for 1 year and 5 months so far, and she was always nice to me before she started believing that the reports were a waste of time. It sounds insane, but I can't think of any other issue she would have with me, as I have gone out of my way to be nice, accommodating, and totally transparent.

I've been thinking about returning to school at the local college anyway to fulfill pre-requisites for a second bachelor's degree anyway, so part of me thinks I should just quit and start the January semester at the college.
I'm so emotionally paralyzed at work these days. I had to shut the door to my office and turn on the radio softly just to drown out her voice. I've waited until I am home to cry all week.

I have a plan should I not have work anymore. But, even though severance and unemployment would be helpful in the event I get laid off or fired, I'd rather resign than have them look for a reason to fire me (I don't think there would be any, but they could do it for any reason anyway) or lay me off. I don't think my ego could handle
it, and so many job applications require you to disclose if you've ever been fired or asked to resign.

I imagine all of this sounds very stupid and I'm sorry. I'm sure there are things I'm not articulating properly in trying to describe the situation. I'm either picking up some vibe or I'm crazy and paranoid, but the vibe is so overwhelming that I can't imagine it doesn't mean something. For what it's worth, my salary is pitifully low, probably the lowest at the company.

Just won the lay-off lottery

GIRLesq — Sun, 31 May 2009 15:16:35 -0800

Just got laid off. Don't HAVE to work for about a year. I could hit the pavement hard and try to get right back into lawyering or I could pretty much do whatever I want. What would you do? I wouldn't mind getting into something more creative like restoring furniture or becoming a chef of sorts. I can afford to do a long internship right now. So you've got about 12 months of bills paid freedom ahead of you -- how do you use it? Keep in mind that I am not rich -- just got my essentials covered for about a year.

Did I miss payday?

Anonymous — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:34:05 -0800

HR is claiming I need to waive a week of severance pay. How do I proceed? I was laid off late last week, and given a severance package. I didn't sign the severance agreement until today (haven't sent it yet), and now HR is claiming I need to waive a week of severance pay. I called HR today for an unrelated issue, and they mentioned that they'd like to remind me to send back my signed severance agreement, along with a note that I would waive seven days of pay since they did not have my agreement in hand and therefore could not put me on payroll.

This was not at all clear to me at the time I was laid off, though in re-examining the severance agreement I guess their claim could stand up, though it's not mentioned explicitly that I would not get paid if I didn't send the severance agreement back immediately. Nowhere does it say I'll lose any of the pay they offered, unless I didn't sign within a time that's later than now.

So, should I send a letter waiving my claim to 7 days' pay with my separation agreement? If not, what is the best way to go about disputing their claim? Like most people, I really can't afford to lose seven days of pay right now. I worked in NYC for a company based in CA, if that is relevant.

Is there anything consoling to someone who's lost their job?

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 06:37:02 -0800

She got canned. But what do I do? My girlfriend just found out that her last day of work is in three weeks. She was told that it was a corporate decision and not performance-based. She'll be eligible for unemployment so we won't be in dire straits right away..But I guess none of those details matters really, I just want to know what I can do to help or be more supportive.

What could I do?
What could I say to keep her positive?
What could your loved ones have done to make things easier for you when you lost your job?
???

Thank you for your insights.

Vacation All I Ever Wanted.

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 08:43:35 -0800

If I get laid off, will I be compensated for my outstanding vacation time? I work for a corporation based in Charlotte that has regional offices. For the last week I've taken on another office's work and next week I'll absorb another office. They've let the administrative people from those offices go.

It was announced on Monday that the goal is to shift all the administrative duties to Charlotte, meaning I would be out of a job. I have over a week of paid vacation that I haven't taken (things have been so crazy here, as you can imagine). If I get laid off, will I be compensated for my outstanding vacation time? Or should I just take it all now and screw the three offices that I've been handling?

Stimulus package and COBRA for dummies

lunasol — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:11:05 -0800

How will the COBRA subsidy in the stimulus package work? I just signed up for COBRA. Good timing, too, since the stimulus package includes a 60% subsidy for people like me who were laid off.

Does anyone know how this will work? I've found a lot of information online about the provision, but nothing about implementation. How long will it take? A month? Six months? Will I have to apply to a government agency or will it go through my COBRA provider or my former employer? How will payment work?

These folks seem to think employers will pay and then deduct it from their payroll taxes, but they weren't sure.

FWIW, I haven't made any payments yet, and don't have to pay till the end of March.

I don't like having peoples' fates in my hands!!

slyboots421 — Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:29:06 -0800

I've just been informed of some things that are going to happen in the office, and will involve several people losing their jobs. I've been given the heads-up so that I can choose if I'm to be one of those people, or if I'm going to get the jobs of 3 or 4 other people when they get laid off. I work for a company that my stepfather is part owner of. He told me over Christmas that several hundred thousand dollars need to be cut from the payroll budget for 2007, and he wants me to tell him what I want to do: Stay on and take on the responsibilities of three or four other employees who would be laid off (he said it would most likely only be for about 3 months) or get laid off.
I'm leaning towards volunteering to get laid off for several reasons:
1. I absolutely should be the first to go; in two years here I've still not established a single job duty. I work where I'm needed and do what I can to stay busy.
2. I have no interest in this business and really don't want to take on job responsibilities that will "lock me in" for an indefinite amount of time, when people who have no intention of leaving would have to leave.
3. I am close with my co-workers, especially a couple of the ones who would be on the "chopping block," and I could never, ever live in good conscience doing that to them.

Part of the reason I haven't really established any job duties here is because I've been waiting to figure out what I want to do and where I want to go first. No one has expected me to stay, especially not me. I'm looking at this as the kick in the pants I need to figure out what I should do next.
For what it's worth, I have a bachelor's degree, live near Detroit and want to move sometime soon, once I get myself financially together. I've looked into training to become a court stenographer and am going to interview at a stenography school tomorrow.
I'm thinking the best bet is to go ahead with the school, as long as it's really what I want to do, and work waiting tables while I do that.
I'm pretty much sold on my thoughts, but I was hoping for some objective feedback. Or, maybe if anyone's been in a similar situation, any advice may help!

Thanks in advance. :)

Revenge for descpicable boss?

crapulent — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:21:35 -0800

My boss made some derogatory comments about Jewish people. I objected. As a result of my objection, I am now "laid off"... To make a long story longer, the events went something like this:

My boss was reading an e-mail from a customer. This particular customer had already contacted us several times regarding the pricing of our products. Upon reading this e-mail...

Boss: “Hmm. He must be Jewish.”

(I sat in stunned silence for a moment.)

Me: “Why did you say that he must be Jewish?”

Boss: “Oh, because that’s how Jewish people are. They will always try to get the best price. They will always try to get some special discount from you.”

Me: “Don’t you think that’s a little bit racist?”

Boss: “No, that can’t be racist. That’s a fact.”

Me: “A fact?! I think you mean that’s your opinion. That’s certainly not a fact.”

Boss: “No, that’s a fact. My friend told me that you have to watch out for Jewish customers because they will always try to get a special price, to pay the least amount possible.”

Me: "Well, that’s just your opinion. That’s certainly not a fact because not all Jewish people are like that."

Boss: “No! It’s just like Korean people. Korean people are the same way. Everybody knows that they are like this.”

Me: "You know what? You’re really offending me so I think we should just not talk about this anymore.”

I thought my boss would apologize to me after I had indicated that he had offended me. We had previously had a very friendly relationship. I barely saw him for the rest of that day and the next day was very awkward. He seemed uncomfortable in my presence.

The following day (two days after the incident) I was informed that I was being “laid off.” The reason given for this lay off was poor company performance.

Prior to this meeting there had never been any indication that the company was performing poorly or that my job was in danger. In fact, for the previous two weeks he and I had been in talks regarding new responsibilities that I was poised to undertake at the beginning of 2006. It was essentially a promotion and we had planned for him to begin training me right away.

Anyway, I am now unemployed. I've contacted the ACLU, the EEOC, the Human Rights Commission for my state, and a couple private attorneys. None of the organizations can help me because my former employer was a very small company and doesn't meet the requisite 6 employees to file suit. The private attorneys say my case will just cost me a ton of money (that I don't have) and will be extremely difficult to prove because I don't have any witnesses, evidence, etc.

I really feel that I was wronged for speaking out. I felt that staying silent would be the wrong thing to do and I don't regret it at all even though I essentially lost my job over it.

But what can I do now? I don't want him (or others like him) to be able to get away with this kind of behavior. Have I run the gamut of feasible options?

(And yes, I am aware that one cannot receive "real" legal advice on Metafilter.)