Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with grammar

This doesn't look correct.

tizzie — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:27:11 -0800

Affect/Effect Affect/effect - which is correct in this phrase: "reset the confidence regarding government’s affect and role...." Thanks in advance.

Help me stop sounding like a valley girl!

InterestedInKnowing — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:20:25 -0800

What are some tips in having better speech? I'm an adult woman, who sometimes sounds like a child! I notice when I speak my statements come out as questions and I sound like (yuck that word too) a total valley chick. In business settings I'm proper and I realize I want to sound like that all the time but I don't. What are techniques I can use to improve upon my speaking voice and grammar efficiency when I'm in a relaxed chatty mode? 'Cause it only makes me sound dumb, when I'm far from it.

Plural of "behalf'?

crLLC — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 13:17:24 -0800

Quick grammar/usage question. Which is the preferred usage: "I'm buying this property on their behalf," or "I'm buying this property on their behalves." The former seems right to me, and I'm surprised that "behalves" is even a word (according to the 1986 unabridged Webster's in my office, it is). My usage guide is silent on the issue. Any thoughts?

That is the question.

ageispolis — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:43:50 -0800

What is a good heuristic for the usage of 'that'? I am not referring to the distinction between 'that' and 'which', but its broader conjunctive and connective use.

I find myself overusing the word, and instead of deciding whether I should omit it or not in the editing process, it'd be great if I could learn to only use it when necessary.

Any ideas?

Help me subjugate the subjunctive, or I might get moody.

phrontist — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:33:02 -0800

Yet Another English Grammar Question: Which is correct? Based on my facial expression right now, you would think I [were/was] excited. The former sounds wrong, but reading about subjunctive moods makes me think it's right. Does it matter whether I intend to imply that I was not in fact excited?

Difficulty of writing and speaking English?

ragtimepiano — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:25:53 -0800

Is English much more difficult than most languages to speak and to write? I have a good friend who is a high school English teacher. He is frustrated by the many errors in the papers he grades. Some common errors: "Your" for "You are"; misuse of the apostrophe, such as "apple's for sale"; improper grammar such as "Me and him went to the game".
We are wondering if students in other countries speak and write incorrectly as much as American students do? I speak a little Spanish, and I realize Spanish is an elegant, easily pronounced and spelled language, with a grammatical structure that maybe makes more sense than that of English. But French? And how about the convoluted syntax of German?
Multi-linguists of the hive mind, what do you think?

Are adverbs mere adjective spinoffs?

aswego — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:02:36 -0800

Are adverbs mere adjective spinoffs? From noticing the pedantic correction of adjective use where adverb use would be more appropriate, I've developed a fascination with the adverb. I even developed an entire theory of its development in the English language, but unfortunately it is based on no actual research. I am now curious how far off the mark it is.

Many "modern" adverbs seem to be the result of the adjective+"ly" construction. Other common constructions include -wise and -like (the latter which I understand to actually be quite old). Was there a time when English had but a small set of "natural" adverbs before the conversion of so many adjectives?

I've also anecdotally noticed that words that had previously worked as adverbs, like "quick" or "slow," are now reconstructed as "quickly" and "slowly." I'm guessing this comes from the fact that everyone is so used to adverbs ending in -ly, that they no longer sound "right" to some people without the ending. Even "high," which people accept in many adverb circumstances involving positioning, becomes "highly" when one is thinking highly of someone else. How and why did these double-duty adjective/adverbs actually evolve this way? Was there a time when adjective and adverbs were less distinct?

That little red grammar book...

zzazazz — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:10:22 -0800

Anyone know the name of that handy little red grammar book? It's digest sized and I think it was published by Harcourt and Brace.

Baby, your words hurt me. Severely.

opossumnus — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:18:47 -0800

GrammarFilter: "I want to punch you severely." Sometimes my partner says silly things. I forgive him because, after all, we do all have our faults--and mine is leniency. However, sometimes he makes statements like,

"I'm glad I didn't go; if I had gone, and seen hipsters running amok, I would have cried severely."

He uses 'severely' in that fashion ALL THE TIME. I finally took issue with his grammar, & he said that it can mean "to a great degree, or requiring great effort," in which case I put up with him (severely), but that's hardly a good explanation.

I understand that 'severely' is an adverb modifying 'crying.' I still think he's ENTIRELY INCORRECT. MeFi, help a girl out? Perhaps if I am correct, I can exchange my knowledge for sexual favors! WIN-WIN!

(By the way, is the usage in the title correct? It seems so, but I've typed the word so many times it doesn't even sound like English anymo'.)

To answer, you would have had to have been able to have answered this question...

Badasscommy — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:43:35 -0800

GrammarFilter: A friend and I have been discussing this construction: "would have had to go" vs. "would have had to have gone." It seems they are both correct and are almost always interchangeable, so it would seem the former, simpler version is preferable. Thoughts, explanations, examples otherwise? Are they both correct? The one case we could think of where the latter form is necessary is something like this: (murder investigation example ;) ) "Were it not for the contrary evidence, he would have had to have done it." In this case, "he would have had to do it" wouldn't make sense.

In a more general case, they seem interchangeable: "If the restaurant closed at nine, we would have had to go already;" "If the restaurant closed at nine, we would have had to have gone already." Are these both correct? They seem so to me, but they do feel different. Only I can't put my finger on it exactly. Is it just the difference between passive and active voice, like "we go" or "we are going?"

Help me get these quotes right.

HeyAllie — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:30:14 -0800

Editors, I need your help with quotation marks! Which is correct? a) I sent him an article about "The X Factor". b) I sent him an article about "The X Factor." I've seen it used both ways. I tend to use option B, but more and more lately, I'm seeing option A as the more common usage.

This made so much sense last night while falling asleep

rossination — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:08:37 -0800

How is "I should mind" used to mean "I don't really mind"? This and other grammar/language questions inside. I'm trying to describe some interesting wordplay in the second verse of Berlin's "Blue Skies" and I can't figure out exactly how to articulate it.

Here is the section I'm looking at:

I should care if the wind blows east or west.
I should fret if the worst looks like the best.
I should mind if they say it can't be true.
I should smile smile that's exactly what I do.

To me, the first three lines sound like the singer is meaning "I should care" as "I don't really care if the wind blows east or west" (like a sarcastic, "oh, yeah, sure, I should care"), and this is continued over the next three lines as a way of basically saying he doesn't give a damn what anyone else says. The sincere "I should smile" in the fourth line means that what he really ought to be doing is smiling, and that's what he's going to do.

How do I describe the wordplay in the first three lines? It isn't really sarcasm, it's sort of a flippant expression. But I can't find another documented use of it (even though I feel like I've heard it before), so I have nothing to refer to to aid my explanation.

Any information is helpful, with or without citations.

Tell me about this sentence construction

peep — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:23:06 -0800

Tell me everything you know about this sentence construction: "Are you finished your lunch?" In the past few months, I've heard the following three sentences while watching cartoons with my son.

1. "Are you finished your lunch?"
2. "I'm all finished my book."
3. "I'm finished the decorations."

At first I thought the sentence must have been misdubbed or something - like it was written "Have you finished . . ." and there was an error in recording the voice and they just left it. But three times (and on different shows)?

I'm in the US. Is this a regional thing, or common in English speaking countries other than the US? I'm 33, and I had never before heard this construction, nor seen it in print or noticed it in anything I've read on the web.

Have you heard this? Do you use it? Where are you from and what languages do you speak? Any details appreciated.

Why is "win" often implicitly considered a conditional verb?

wackybrit — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 06:46:01 -0800

Grammarians: Is it OK to take liberties with the word "win" when publicizing a contest or draw? I see a lot of competitions that use phrases like these to get people's attention:

- Leave a comment on our blog and win an Amazon gift voucher.
- Design a logo and win $500
- Tell your friends about [store name] and win $100 in store credit

This "and win" wording bugs me because the "win" is speculative or conditional, but no words are stating this (for example, "Design a logo to be in with a chance to win $500" or "Leave a comment on our blog, you could win an Amazon gift voucher" make the speculation pretty clear). If you changed "and win" to "and get" in the above examples, people would be rightly peeved if they didn't get X for doing Y - so why is "win" implicitly considered conditional where "get" would not be?

I understand why in something like "Win $100" it's conditional because "win" is imperative, but when you say "do X and win Y," there's a "do X" and then "win Y" cause and effect (in my mind).

My interest in this is two fold. First, I'd like to run some contests and use this sort of snappy wording, but I'm worried about the ethics of it. Is this sort of wording ethical/legal? Second, I love the English language and am intrigued if this sort of implied conditionality is actually popular with other verbs (or has a name) and I'm just being obtuse! :-)

Long sleeve? Long-sleeved? Halp!

radioamy — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:35:20 -0800

Please hope me with this seemingly-basic English grammar/spelling question! Which is correct: "long-sleeve t-shirt" or "long-sleeved t-shirt"? Is there supposed to be a hyphen between "long" and "sleeve(d)? This keeps coming up at work and I can't find any online grammar resource that covers it. I was writing "long-sleeved" but several people corrected me*.

*I still think I'm right, but I need some concrete evidence. And if I'm wrong I'd certainly like to start writing it correctly!

Me and him went shopping?

bengarland — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:01:49 -0800

Why is incorrect pronoun usage so prevalent? I hear people say the following types of sentences all the time in person, in movies, on tv, etc.

"Me and her went shopping."

"He went to the baseball game with her and I."

"Us guys are going to the bar."

I've always been under the impression that these grammar constructs are incorrect simply because you can't say "Me went shopping" or "He went to the baseball game with I." or "Us are going to the bar."

1) Why is this poor grammar so prevalent when it is relatively easy to deconstruct into the single pronoun forms and determine that it is incorrect? (Meaning, most people would not say "Me went shopping." is correct)

2) Why do they put this into scripted movies and tv shows when it's obviously wrong? Is it to seem more authentic?

3) I definitely seem to notice this more from people in the northeastern United States than I do in the southeastern part where I'm from (we have different grammar problems here). Is this just my imagined personal bias, or is there something regional to it?

Phone call grammar

kapu — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:38:23 -0800

If I am on the phone with an unknown person, I usually say "whom an I speaking with?" to get the callers name. It doesn't seem to roll of the tongue very nicely though. What is the best way to get a callers name in today's world?

"Like Bob and Me" or "like Bob and I"?

256 — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:09:14 -0800

So which sentence is proper English grammar: "If you eat like Bob and me, you will be healthy." or "If you eat like Bob and I, you will be healthy."

Any questions not answered in #2 pencil will receive a score of zero

saysthis — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:24:37 -0800

Grammarfilter! Oh my. Is it "X and Y are two side of the same coin" or "X and Y two sides of the same coin"? This was an SAT sample question, and I, a poor girl's tutor, swore that "sides" must be plural in this context. Then the sample test website told me I was wrong, that it's "two side". Bonus: The website also told me that my understanding of the perfect aspect was suspect, via:
"If only I had read the instruction manual before taking apart the engine." WRONG (this was apparently simple past?)
"If only I read the manual before taking apart the engine." CORRECT (this is perfect?)

I'd appreciate some resolution here. Now, granted, my use of grammar isn't perfect in this particular question, but that's because, hello, people don't speak in "perfect" College Board grammar, nor is my particular specialty SAT English requirements. I'm a language coach, as dopey as that sounds. I work with fairly advanced ESL students to kind of drag the language out of them, with significant explanation of BASIC grammar in their NATIVE language. Which is to say that I'm an expert in English as it's used, not as prescriptivists think it ought to be.

Disclaimer: I took our apparently unwitting client because my boss told me to. I'm kind of stuck with this girl, and I want to do right by her, so I'm asking.

I'm 99.99% sure I'm right in both these questions, but I need some freakin' professional help here. Do I really suck at perfect tense? Am I one of a majority who's out butchering an idiom that ought to be a torchlight for proper plural development? Any and all criticism and links are welcome.

My name is Daniel Plainview. I am driven and goal-oriented, and I endeavor to forge new possibilities in alternative energy.

Busoni — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:28:15 -0800

In There Will Be Blood, Daniel Plainview delivers the line: "I have a competition in me." Could this be described as grammatically correct, strictly speaking? Or is it idiomatic, but not strictly correct? Is Plainview saying, essentially, "I have a [sense of] competition in me," a sentence that, were it to be spelled out as such, would lose its rhetorical punch? Could it be argued as a case of poetic metonymy or something of the kind? Or is this question indicative of a hypercorrect mindset, akin to pointing out the fallacy in "Woe is me" (which is, incidentally, both idiomatically and grammatically correct, as it uses the dative form "me," implying "woe is [unto] me")?

A Question About "I" Vs. "Me"

Buddy-Rey — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:19:38 -0800

I understand the normal rules for "I" and "Me" in sentences, but I simply cannot figure out the answer to this example. What I want to say is that my dad and I are regional truckers (or me and my dad are regional truckers). If I stay true to the "I" vs."Me" formula I learned in school and eliminate the objective pronoun, the simplified version of the sentence can be written as either "I are regional truckers" or "me are regional truckers", and both of these look atrocious written down. I'm not a seasoned grammarian, but even I know that neither one of these seems to be the correct answer. Am I missing something?

Burnt-out Grad Student Seeks Grammar Help

hiteleven — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:16:22 -0800

I want to ask several questions in a row in a research proposal. What is the grammatically correct way of doing this? In a bit of a silly rhetorical flourish, I want to pose several questions in a row in a research proposal I am writing. At the moment I have written this in the following way:

"In my research I will seek to answer several questions: What is X? Where is Y? Who is Z?"

I did a rough Google search of similar constructions, and I've adhered to what seems to be the most popular standards. I still have some concerns, however:

- Should I end the first sentence with a colon or a period?

- If the first sentence ends with a colon, is it right to capitalize the 'W' in "Where"? I found a lot of such examples on-line, but I'm still not convinced it's the right thing to do.

- Can I add another sentence to the paragraph after the last question, or do I have to end it right then and there?

I would appreciate it if anyone who can cite a style guide when answering this. Also, one copy of this proposal will be going to the UK, while another stays in North America, if that makes a difference.

Grammatical Case Headspace....

mary8nne — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:15:21 -0800

LanguageFilter: How can a native English speaker develop a better sense of grammatical cases? So I'm learning some Russian and have just started getting into the noun & adjective case distinctions. But as a native English speaker it is quite difficult to think in terms of what noun cases are used in a particular sentence (ie is this the nominative, accusative, dative, ablative, locative, instrumental, vocative or genitive case of the noun/adjective that I need to use).

I've been reading some of the wikipedia entries on declension, grammatical case, noun cases, gender cases etc but it very quickly goes completely over my head.

So I was just wondeing if anyone here had say some tips, advice or resources on getting into the grammatical case headspace?

I imagine its just a matter of doing 'exercises' or something? (but is this really possible with English examples when we don't distinguish linguistically between most of them?)

"Take the heart of me?" You can just say, "my heart."

Busoni — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:00:32 -0800

In Return of the King, Aragorn says: "I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me." What precisely does he mean by this? My confusion is with the phrase "take the heart of me." Is this a standard idiom?

Is possession for nouns that end in x indicated by a quotation mark alone or is the quotation mark accompanied by an s?

christhelongtimelurker — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:35:58 -0800

Genuinely dumb question to waste on the brain trust here but: when nouns end in x, do you indicate possession with just a quotation mark or do you need to include the s? Examples of proper use:
-noun that ends without an s-'s
-noun that ends in s-'s

Use in question:
-noun that ends in x-'s

Inspired by a niggling sensation from here.

Perhaps someone waxing brainy on the topic might pose the question of whether possession is auditory, visual or both.

I'd bet dollars to dimes this has been asked before but I couldn't find it.