Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with grammar

Have I been acting rude for most of my life?

Shouraku — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 02:15:34 -0800

Is it rude to refer to someone in the third person (he/she) while they are present? I recently watched a video of comedian Russell Brand on the MSNBC show Morning Joe. At time codes: 5:12 and 6:08 he gets very upset with the hosts for referring to him using a third person pronoun.

Honestly, I had no idea that this was somehow rude. I'm sure that I've done this in social settings, and currently feel pretty bad about it. I read the comments section of the Gawker site, and it seems that the level of appropriateness of third person pronouns is debatable. Really, the whole discussion left me a bit confused, and I could use some perspective.

Here is a link to the Gawker site: Russell Brand Destroys MSNBC Talk Show Host for Treating Him Like Shit
Here is a link to the video on YouTube in case the Gawker video is flaky, as it was for me: YouTube version

Questions:
1) Is it a social faux pas to refer to someone using a third person pronoun when they are present?
2) If so, for what reason? It was suggested that it's objectifying and exclusionary, is that true?

Note: The hosts were actually pretty rude in a number of other ways. They made comments about his accent and clothing, as well as started off the interview by introducing him as someone whose work they had never seen before. I'm not asking about those comments as they were obviously very inappropriate.

Apostrophe Usage, Part 748...

Jehan — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:11:44 -0800

In athletics, do events named "boys 100m" or "girls javelin" have an apostrophe? That is, should they rightly be "boys' 100m" and "girls' javelin"? It seems that the standard usage for grownup events is "men's" and "women's", but I'm unsure. Opinions?

Is my writing style overly complicated?

Unhyper — Wed, 22 May 2013 21:28:56 -0800

I learned English as a second language (native is Finnish). The emphasis in school was on vocabulary and very basic grammar; we did not to my recollection deal with stuff like passive voice etc. So in terms of writing in English, much of my "voice" has developed simply from what sounds right inside my head. However, I've been told that the way I write is overly complicated. Is this so? I never try to complicate my writing with unnecessary stylistic choices or fancy words. I believe that anything that makes it more difficult for my point to get across is detrimental to the writing. Yet, at the same time, I don't think one's writing should simply cater to the lowest intellectual denominator.

Anyway, occasionally when I let others read what I write, they suggest I simplify things. It's not necessarily bad advice, but it has made me a bit concerned over the quality of my command of the language. The trouble is, my natural way of constructing sentences is, I suppose, unnecessarily verbose - yet it is most natural for me. For instance, I was responding to something on Facebook and quipped the following: "By default, I just assume that any insect the nutritional habits of which I am not aware of, is one that sucks blood."

A friend of mine pointed out that I could have just said something like, "If I don't know what an insect eats, I assume it sucks blood." Okay, fair enough.

My question is, would that be better writing, grammatically? Phonetically? Is it simply easier to understand? A sentence like that just sounds so... I don't know. Inflexible? Rough?

How is it I just learned about conjunctive adverbs

angrycat — Fri, 17 May 2013 07:51:57 -0800

Looking to confirm that the following and variations are grammatically correct and the grammatical reasoning why: He put the spoon on the mat, then put the fork to the side. Asking because I am figuring out conjunctive adverbs, and I teach comp, and hate myself for not knowing this well in light of the fact that I torture my students with grammar issues.

He put the spoon on the mat, then put the fork to the side: A comma goes after mat, because the following is a dependent clause, right? Is the comma mandatory?

He put the spoon on the mat, then he put the fork to the side. Here, the comma and then are used to join two independent clauses. Then is functioning as a conjunctive adverb there, right?

THANK YOU GRAMMARIANS I LOVE YOU ALL

The best book on college grammar?

Leah — Tue, 07 May 2013 12:57:55 -0800

I have just finished a college course in business English. I did well, but I want to be able to look at parts of speech in a sentence and understand enough to know for sure why I am using who or whom or when to choose subjective or objective pronouns. (Example: Do you think it was THEY who left the door unlocked overnight?) My textbook spent more time telling you to substitute he or him for who or whom, but I wanted to be able to understand what part of speech was responsible for the choice. What is the best college level or above textbook to teach me this? Thank you in advance.

When did become OK to drop the comma after a state?

stargell — Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:24:03 -0800

In the past week or so I have seen numerous constructions like this headline and lead sentence ("Erik Loomis argues that the reason we don’t see more tragedies like West, Texas is because the US has outsourced industries to places like Bangladesh..."). Should there not be a comma after "Texas" in that headline and sentence? I have even had writers tell me that editors (on internet sites) have actively removed the second comma in a mid-sentence "Cityname, State, ... " construction. Is it not still "West, Texas, ..."? Punctuation police—can we get a ruling? Are standards shifting, or is this just a case of bad editing?

Comma Chameleon: Help with comma usage needed!

MegoSteve — Wed, 24 Apr 2013 18:02:33 -0800

How do I correctly use commas in this sentence? My client sent me an email and wants me to correct the commas in a sentence. I believe their suggestion is grammatically incorrect. The sentence currently reads (and I'm substituting exact details):

Oscar-winning actor Jane Doe, whose prestigious career spans three decades, is coming to New Jersey...

He wants me to add a comma in front of the name so it reads:

Oscar-winning actor, Jane Doe, whose prestigious career spans three decades, is coming to New Jersey...

I believe the original example is correct because, by adding the extra comma, you're making the sentence directly address Jane Doe.

Which sentence is correct and why? If you can provide me a link to a web site that backs up your answer, I would appreciate it.

Verbal Tryptics?

CollectiveMind — Sat, 06 Apr 2013 14:38:13 -0800

There is a name for a type of grammatical phrasing in which something is described at the end of a sentence of paragraph by distinct but different examples. For instance, "The dish was delightful to look, smelled wonderfully and was absolutely delicious." This phrasing is most often in threes. What is it called?

Grammar Filter: [He is a "black" man] or [He is a black man]

Knigel — Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:44:54 -0800

Hello, I'm having some difficulty getting a conclusive answer to the question of which is more "proper" grammatically and in academia. When referring to "blacks" and "whites" in society, I used to write them without quotes until a professor corrected me. However, when I use quotes now, some people disagree. Could you all help me find the correct usage? Professors explanation inside... This is what my professor said on the issue:

Other "politically correct" terms are authentic in that they are typically more accurate. Most "deaf" people can hear somewhat and many "blind" people can see to some degree, even if they are legally blind (although I agree that some terms are cringe-worthy, such as "differently abled").
"race" is a particular case, however, since genetically and anthropologically it has no merit whatsoever and has been discredited. Of course, people still use the terms culturally, talking about "Black culture" and so on. Thus, if quoting, simply quote the term used. For example, Martin Luther King Jr. will talk about "Negros" and "the Negro race." We, for our part, talk about African-Americans, Asian-Canadians, Euro-Japanese and so on. If referring to cultural perceptions, put the terms "black" or "white" in quotation marks. That said, NOBODY uses "yellow" anymore, but people from India and Pakistan do refer to themselves as "brown."

To blank and to blank, or to blank and blank?

tweedle — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:03:09 -0800

Is it more appropriate grammatically to say "I will commit myself to posting with all my heart and to answering questions very well" or "I will commit myself to posting with all my heart and answering questions very well," with the difference being the "to" before the gerund. I am writing something important and want to make sure everything is absolutely correct. I don't know how to google this. In my real sentence I am working on, it goes something like I would commit myself to gerund + elaboration about that gerund AND gerund + elaboration. So "would commit" has two predicates connected by "and." Should it be "to gerund and to gerund" or "to gerund and gerund?" If I think about it in very simple terms, like "to be or not to be" or "to have and to hold," then the second "to" seems necessary. But is that a rule? I have a lot of elaboration in my actual sentence and I don't know how much that matters. I know I am beyond a doubt beanplating. Thanks for any help!

How do you abbreviate the word 'because' when typing or text messaging?

TheRedArmy — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:29:05 -0800

Whenever it comes up while I'm texting I come to an impasse. I know that I don't want to type the whole word because I have a dumbphone and I want to minimize thumb-wear. If I were writing a novel I would write it as 'cause, but I'm not so it's still too long. The phonetic cuz is clear and concise but somehow doesn't fit my personality or the tone of most of my communications. I started using cos but for some reason I associate that with UK English and I'm from the states and it doesn't quite feel right. What do you use and why, if there is a why.

Tips for learning advanced vocabulary and grammar in a foreign language?

kristi — Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:31:16 -0800

What are your tips and techniques for learning advanced vocabulary and grammar in a foreign language? I'm happy with my techniques for learning basic vocabulary (sky, street, house, speak, run) in another language. I'd like to do better with more advanced vocabulary, especially:

* more abstract words (such as the adjective "striking")
* related words with specialized differences ("ship" vs. "boat")

I'm also struggling a bit with the best way to learn and review advanced grammar (for example, in Spanish, the personal subject pronoun can usually be omitted, but there are times when it's required).

What resources do you use?

What techniques do you use?

My main target languages are Spanish and French, but I'd also appreciate suggestions for Italian and German, as well as Russian and Japanese.

I am a huge fan of Anki spaced-repetition software, so I'd be delighted to have suggestions that take advantage of SRS. (For example, if you use additional material, such as example sentences that use the target, do you put them on the back or the front of the card?)

Thanks!

"It work." or "It works". Which is correct?

usermac — Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:40:10 -0800

Alright all your grammar masters. My wife is foreign and she announced "It work." when I rubbed her shoulder and fixed her pain. I corrected her by saying "It works." to teach her well. She then proceeded to explain to me the English of "plural" with adding an "s" to the verb. Is this correct?

Herpes: A Grammatical Question.

JakeEXTREME — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:48:10 -0800

When talking to a coworker I offered the phrase, "hey kid, go ask your Mom what herpes are.". My coworker responded with "herpes is.". We then started a discussion of the proper use of is/are and could not come to a conclusion. Any insight? The conversation drifted into other words as simple as cats and gum, then switched over to The Simpsons. We also touched into the territory of phrasing and tense. If you have credentials please offer them as it would be better than assuming each person is an English major.

As an aside, this wasn't a conversation directed at my coworker. We were making jokes about a child that put her mouth on the spout of a beverage machine.

Inaugural vs First Annual?

RevRob330 — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:48:45 -0800

My wife has organized a 5k as a fundraiser for her school. The event website lists it as the "First Annual" race. She got a nitpicky email chastising her her about it, complaining that it should be the "Inaugural" race. What do you think, and how should she respond? My wife is a teacher and has organized a 5k as a fundraiser for her school. It's listed on several running sites to make sure as many prospective runners as possible see it and can enroll. The event websites list it as the "First Annual" race.

Today, she received this email through the site from a prospective runner:

This e-mail from an interested participant has reached you via racesiteredacted:
Listing: "schoolname redacted 1st Annual 5k & 1 Mile Fun Run/Walk"
Message: You can not claim something is an "Annual" event until you have more than one of them.
A first time event is its "Inaugural" event. If you have a second one, the following year, with plans for future ones in subsequent years... then and only then can you accurately describe it as the 2nd (or mores) Annual whatever.
Such a misstep is a bad example for elementary school students.
sender: pedanticperson@verycommonemaildomain.com

I can see the point the correspondent makes, and googled a bit to find some substantiation:
The AP Stylebook does state: "An event cannot be described as annual until it had been held in at least two successive years."

Several other sites agree . . .

On the other hand:
* When the Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar started having conferences in 1990, they called the inaugural edition "The First Annual ATEG Conference."

A few questions:

In this case "First Annual" is as much a statement of intent as it is of fact. The school wants to run this race every year. In my mind "Inaugural" doesn't carry that connotation. Is "First Annual" truly unacceptable? Do the AP rules apply here? Does "First Annual" bug you?

She's not going to change the race listing. Is there a polite way to respond to the emailer without conceding the point? Should she respond?

I'd appreciate any thoughts.
Thanks!

PS: Obligatory XKCD.

Help me, and my team, strengthen our non-fiction writing skills

arniec — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 10:25:23 -0800

I lead a team of podcasters. They're all great people--intelligent, articulate, and very good speakers. We now wish to translate our spoken success to the page, and our early attempts have shown that despite the successes we have as speakers we're finding our writing skill (specifically in regards to concise, clear, engaging, and personable communication through the written word) is in need of honing. I need suggestions how to do that. To be more specific, what we are trying to write are nonfiction reports and reviews of all types -- movies, books, music, television, live events, products, we as a group review all of these.

I have a journalism background and am familiar with the ways to write a news article, but (a) my training is approaching 20 years old and I'm out of practice and (b) we're not really trying to write news that starts with an informative overview then drills into details and quotes. We want to write readable, catchy reviews.

I have read this and this where this was asked previously.

I do know one tact is to write more, but the key is to get feedback on the writing. To that end, I was wondering if an online class would be appropriate for us to take as a group (as we are spread across the country), or if we should find local seminars and writing classes that are in person? In either case, what should we take? I feel grammar basics need to be reinforced for the entire group, but beyond that what we are writing is neither news nor fiction, and I wasn't sure what type of course might best aid us in our goal.

Also are there any online groups that might be appropriate resources for aid? I haven't found any in my Googling but may be thinking in too strict of terms.

Thanks in advance for any advice offered

Resources to improve spelling and grammar?

Anonymous — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:43:26 -0800

What resources would you recommend for an adult who is a native English speaker who nonetheless struggles with grammar and spelling? I'm asking on the behalf of my boyfriend, who dropped out of middle school, and is also dyslexic. He asked if I had a book or website to recommend, but most of what I could find is geared towards kids or people learning English as a second language. He already feels insecure about all this, so recommending an ESL book seems really patronizing. He even acts sheepish asking me about grammar or how to spell something, so something he can pursue on his own would be ideal (even though I'm happy to help and don't judge him whatsoever).

Grammar nerd question

deathpanels — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:53:43 -0800

Which is correct? a) "Led Zeppelin is a band" b) "Led Zeppelin are a band" Initially I was confident that a) was correct because "Led Zeppelin" is singular, but I am uncomfortable with this answer because it becomes inconsistent when the plurality of the band name shifts – e.g., "The Turtles is a band" feels wrong, while "The Turtles are a band" feels right.

It seems like the choice of is vs. are determines if we are talking about the band as a unit or as individual members. E.g., "John Bonham and Jimmy Page are playing music" but "Led Zeppelin is playing music".

I also suspect the answer might have something to do with band names being proper nouns – my grammar knowledge is sparse and spotty, but if I recall, English grammarians grant proper nouns special privileges as a part of speech in some cases. Someone with better grammar skills than me: please, throw me a bone!

"Isthmus" or "isthmus"?

flibbertigibbet — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:11:03 -0800

In Chicago style, or barring that, in Generally Accepted Historical Practice, how should one capitalize the following sentence, which discusses the "Isthmus of Panama" (which is undoubtedly capitalized when it appears in full): "The canal crossed the isthmus." or "The canal crossed the Isthmus."? (My CMS subscription has lapsed and I can't afford a re-up, alas.)

Grammatical gender consistency across languages

obloquy — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:49:16 -0800

Are grammatical genders, as a rule, consistent across the Indo-European languages which use them? I am thinking of romance languages generally, but information on others are by no means discouraged. Any examples of nouns (or other gendered words) that are differently gendered in different languages would be very helpful.

Overuse of the word "that" in casual conversation

jbickers — Mon, 26 Nov 2012 06:35:38 -0800

Linguists, is there a name for this annoying trend, and can we point to where/when it originated: Overusing the word "that" without first defining what you are talking about? I've seen this in various places lately, but it really rankled me on a recent Southwest flight, when the flight attendant was giving instructions on stowing bags:

"Go ahead and put that large bag in that overhead compartment, and put that smaller bag in that space below your seat."

There's four different uses of the word "that," without first defining what "that" is. While I instinctively know what they're saying, it feels lazy and sloppy to me.

So, is this a thing that there's a name for? Did it originate in any particular place (book, movie, trend, etc.)?

"In hospital" and "In a hospital"

517 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 17:34:15 -0800

What is the name of the technical difference between "In *a* hospital" and "In hospital"? The British say, "The famous footballer is in hospital, after injuring his ego." The Americans say "The famous soccer player in *a/the* hospital, after injuring his ego."

What is the technical term for the different ways in which the word hospital is being used?

Is that the British are using "hospital" as a proper noun, while the Americans are not?

It's certainly not "myself"

Cogito — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:10:27 -0800

Which version of this sentence is grammatically correct and why? A: "Try not to be as bad as J. and I in the Masters semis last year." B: "Try not to be as bad as J. and me in the Masters semis last year." Make up you mind now. Arguments for each inside. Supporter of A claims that there is an implied "were" following the "I", and that "J. and I" are the subject of the clause, implying the use of "I".

Supporter of B claims that "J. and me" are objects (implying the use of "me"), and this becomes clear due to how the sentence sounds if "J. and" were removed.

Yes, language is flexible and evolving, but we just want to settle a prescriptivist argument.

Confused by the singular "they"...

Yma — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:15:41 -0800

GrammarFilter: "Would [my friend] rather have their significant other think they find them ugly, or think they find them stupid?" Is this ambiguously worded? Help me settle a dispute. My friend and I were playing a facebook game when this question popped up.

I think it could be interpreted two different ways:
(1) Have his significant other think she finds him stupid.
(2) Have his significant other think he finds her stupid.

However, he thinks that if he took the question to 1,000 different English professors, every single one would agree that it can only be accurately read the second way.

Can anyone explain which of us is right and why?

Dear Ms. Wilson and Messrs. Smith, Willians, Jones, and Davis,

Nameless — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:14:15 -0800

I need to address a formal letter to five recipients of different rank and gender at once. How? The context is professional. The addressees are as follows:

Mr. John Smith, Director of Everything
Mr. Sam Jones, Manager
Mr. Steve Williams, Senior Manager
Mr. Bob Davis, Junior Position
Ms. Lisa Wilson, Junior Position

How do I do this? Help!