Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with employment and references

Can I use a short-term client as a reference?

tllaya — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 18:28:22 -0800

I have a job interview. I recently did some freelance editing which is pertinent to the job I am interviewing for. It is my only freelance gig thus far. The freelance gig only lasted a month, but ended on good terms with an indication I'd be contacted when more work is needed. The work for this client will never be more than very part time, so a full-time job should not be seen as competition for my time (though he could always see it that way anyway). Can/should I use this client as a reference? How do I approach this client if I can use him as a reference? My only other official editing work experience is an internship, and their company policy forbids my supervisors there from giving references. The company only allows contact with HR, and only to verify that I was employed there. This is unfortunate, because I did very good work during my internship and am still in friendly contact with my two former supervisors.

I assume this question has been asked and answered multiple times, but I've searched askmefi and google, and because "client" and "reference" apparently apply to all things computer, answers to this question were buried beyond my search skills.

How do I explain why my advisor isn't a reference?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:44:31 -0800

My supervisor/thesis advisor has dropped off the face of the earth as I'm applying for jobs, so I can't count on him as a reference. How bad does this look, should I explain it in writing somewhere, and how? I'm applying for jobs outside of academia and my advisor is really incommunicado - he has no teaching duties this semester and nobody can seem to get in contact with him. He's flaky and super-busy writing most of the time anyway, and it sounds like his wife may be in a health crisis of some sort, so it's quite unlikely that he'll be easy to contact in any way.

As I apply for jobs, this leaves me without a good reference for what I've been doing in grad school the past two years. My other references are all from undergrad, and there's nobody else from my masters program who knows me well enough to speak well as a reference for me.

So - what do I do? Clearly I can't include my advisor as a reference, but does this look awful if I just have a mysterious dearth of references? Should I explain this somewhere? On the reference form? Cover letters seem both way too soon and wildly inappropriate to include this kind of explanation. Help me, MeFi!

Awkward reference quandry... how to proceed?

désoeuvrée — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:54:42 -0800

It it unwise to bank on a prospective employer not calling my references unless I am interviewed? I'm applying for a job that is admittedly a long shot, and I’d rather not call and ask people to be my references unless I am actually in the running (for various snowflake reasons detailed at length within). Is it a horrendous faux pas to list references without asking their permission, if I'm fairly certain I won’t get called for an interview? On the other hand, is it a horrendous faux pas not to send references with my resume and cover letter, when the job posting specifically asks for them? I don't want to call my references because I am not actively "job hunting"; I am an ABD grad student and still want to try to finish my dissertation, even though I no longer want to work in academia. However, I found a job opening for what is basically my dream job, for which I would leave my program in a second. It’s a long shot because I don’t have the experience they are asking for, but I will make the case in my cover letter that my experience in grad school transfers over. The job posting asks for the names and phone numbers of three references.

I don’t want to ask anyone in my department for a reference because I don’t want them to know I am looking for work. One of my committee members, for whom I was also a research assistant, has previously agreed to be a reference for a funding opportunity I applied for, so I assume he would agree again—but it would be terrible if he knew I was applying for a job (unless I was about to be offered the job, of course). There are just a lot of weird politics going on: I’m having some issues with my committee chair, am not making good progress and don’t have much funding left, and so my status in the program is a little rocky to say the least. I don’t want to rock the boat by letting people know that I'm thinking of leaving, partly because I’m afraid they will take that as their cue to push me out, and I really don’t want to leave with no job lined up—I would be completely fucked and living in a cardboard box by year's end.

That said, I don’t really have three references from outside of school. I could probably come up with three names, and I know they would say yes, but they wouldn’t be great references because they're all from 2005-2006, when I was just out of undergrad, and they're unrelated to the job I'm applying for. Furthermore, it’s so incredibly awkward to contact them after such a long time that I would rather not do so until I am actively looking for work and applying for multiple positions. I dread trying to explain my current situation, and since none of them are academics, they’re not going to understand how it is that I’ve been in grad school for six years and haven’t “graduated,” and am now applying for some random unrelated job, but am not actually leaving grad school… it makes me cringe just imagining the conversations/email exchanges.

The consensus from this previous AskMe is that references are usually not called until after the interview, but not always—some people reported having their references called but never getting interviewed (WTF!). After reading that, I have pretty much decided against putting anyone from my program as a reference, just in case, but I would still like to put my non-academic references without asking them until I have more reason to do so. Would that amount to professional suicide? Thanks and apologies for the super long (and, I'm sure, annoying) post.

My references have been checked, will get a job offer?

ariyadhana — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 15:13:51 -0800

My references have been checked after attending a second round job interview. Do you think there is an offer on the way if my references check out? Would they bother otherwise? I went to a first round interview for a large non-profit organization. They were interviewing all day to fill two positions, so I anticipate the interviewed about 6 candidates. I was then called back for a second round interview, and I anticipate 2 other candidates were as well as it appeared that they were only interviewing during the afternoon. Within an hour after completing the second interview my references were being called. After the second interview, do employers usually make a decision before checking references, or can references be a deciding factor? Do you think I will get an offer?

Madamina, this is our staffer Madamina. Pleased to meet you.

Madamina — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:31:36 -0800

How do I apply for my own job -- especially if my bosses are my references? [tl;dr]
I have worked in this very desk for six years, in three positions. I started as office support; when I decided to go to grad school in this field, they offered me an assistantship and I stayed for two more years, doing half office support and half field-related work. Then, when I graduated, I was about to take another job when they magicked up a full-time position, doing all field-related work, for up to three years. There was much rejoicing.

Well, the three years will be up in June. My bosses, who are two of my references, have been supportive of my job searches with the knowledge (on both sides) that I am applying sparingly and carefully. I turned down one position; another closes next week.

And now I see that they have reclassified a recently-vacated position as essentially what I do. Whether or not I get this job, I'll still be good until June, but of course I want the permanent one. My bosses have fed me various job listings over the years, and before they gave me both of those positions we spoke about it quietly. But I found this out when they posted it online.

I'm guessing they don't want to make me think the position is mine, only to hire someone else; that's good. But damn, I'm going to have a front row seat for every stage of this thing.

[/tl;dr]

How do I apply for my own job when my bosses are my main references and they've seen my ups and downs? If I bring up something new, how do I explain why I haven't used it before? How do I write my cover letter when they pretty much know what it will say?

Can I refuse to let them talk to anyone from my current employer?

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Sep 2011 20:05:32 -0800

I got a new job! Yay! But I have to fill out a consent statement... and I may have exaggerated a part of my job history... Note: I have received the offer letter, and I've signed it, and so has the employer. It is conditional on being bonded and a background check. I will easily pass bonding, as well as any background checks with respect to criminal background, credit checks, etc.

However, in the consent statement, I have the following options:

i) I give you consent to contact my current employer.
ii) Please do not contact my current employer at this time.
iii) I give you consent to ONLY contact the references provided below.

Option 1 is not appealing, and I will not do it no matter what.
Option 2 is ideal, but I don't know if it will halt this process altogether.
Option 3 is possible, and I have two people I trust to provide references.

The exaggeration: I had a job. Let's call it job A. It's a skilled job, and I did it for a year. I got job A as a promotion from job B. Due to stress and an unenjoyable environment, I asked to be moved back to job B within the same company. I have been back in job B for three months while I looked for a new position.

So I got the new position with my resume saying I am currently in job A, but I left out that I took a step back to job B.

So... if I pick option 2 above on the consent form, will I be okay?

When do you check references during the hiring process?

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:34:29 -0800

During the hiring process, when are references typically checked? Over the last several weeks I had multiple interviews with an organization, and a few days after my final interview, the HR department called my references. I took this as an excellent sign--in the past, I've gotten offers shortly after the employer contacts my references. And when I was on the hiring end at my last job, we only solicited and checked references from the top candidate, because a reference check was the last stop before extending an offer. Why check more references than you have to?

So I was very surprised to learn yesterday that I was not selected for this job, especially because I'm confident my references wouldn't have said anything to outright disqualify me.

Since I'm now continuing my job search, can you tell me more about how, in your experience, reference checks work? When do you ask for references? When do you check them? Do you check multiple candidates' references? I imagine every company has a different procedure, but I'd like to arm myself with information in order to be better prepared for what's next. (Also, I'm curious.)

Posting this anonymously to avoid having my real name linked with comments about a prospective employer, especially now that--sigh--my job hunt is continuing.

Reference letter basics

garuda — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:18:16 -0800

How do I got about getting reference letters? I'm about to enter the professional world and I'm clueless about how to do this because I've only worked in academia. I'm pretty sure that I will be able to obtain several positive letters of reference. When I ask my contacts for reference letters, do they just send them to me for me to keep on file in case I need to submit them to future employers? Do I need a letter specifically addressed to the potential employer?

At what point do I submit my letters of reference? After I am called up for an interview (fingers crossed?)? Or do I just give my former employers contact information and have my potential employer contact them? Do potential employers want to have direct contact with my references?

I'm sorry if this is all common knowledge, but I feel quite clueless about this. Thanks so much for any advice.

How to list academic job references?

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 13:30:37 -0800

Academic job filter: Whom do I list as references when applying for faculty positions while currently employed? I am in my 3rd year in a TT position in a social science/humanities field. I really love my job and my colleagues, and would be happy to stay where I am for a while, but for one major problem: my current position is in another state/region from my spouse's, and there is really no place in the area where my spouse could work without making a pretty major downward career move.

There are two job openings in geographic areas that would provide many more opportunities for my spouse for which I'm considering applying. My dilemma is in listing references (no letters are required, just names/contact info). I have my dissertation advisor and a former committee member, both of whom I am still in contact with and will happily serve as references. For the 3rd person it seems like it would be best to list someone from my current institution, particularly my dept. chair, but I don't really want to tell my chair that I'm applying for jobs. The job market is tight enough that I don't really want to jeopardize my relationship with my current colleagues if nothing comes of these applications, especially since I'm up for 3rd year review this spring.

On the other hand, if I don't list my chair, will it look odd? My other options are either former professors or a former dept. chair from my previous institution (a non-TT job), but I haven't talked to these people in a few years and they have less relevance to the jobs I would be applying for.

Is it ever acceptable to list a reference but ask that the committee not contact them without contacting me first (i.e. if I am a serious candidate)?

Any help or advice is welcome. I hate applying for jobs but the two-body situation we have right now is becoming a major financial burden (and also kinda sucks on a personal level).

warning your references ahead of time

diode — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:59:25 -0800

I've found a great potential job, given them references, and know the references will be contacted on Monday. To what extent is it typical to let your references know beforehand they will be contacted by my potential employer? My list of references are friends and a couple of people from work including my supervisor.

I've been amongst the under-employed for a bit. My current position went from full, to half, to quarter time in the past year and three quarters. My skills and interests are seemingly diverging from their needs.

I'm not too concerned about the references I will get from my friends. My supervisor, on the other hand, I don't know how this will go. The potential job did not specifically request the supervisor's contact info but I put it down anyway thinking it would look strange if I did not do so.

As a note, I did not notify my references beforehand they were a reference.

I'm still working there, albeit quarter time, when other folks have been let go entirely, so the company sees value in my continued presence, though apparently not enough to employ me full time.

So, what I'm wondering is whether I should be contacting my references to let them know they are likely to get contacted. In particular, my supervisor is one key element.

At this point, I'm thinking something along the lines of simply letting him know this is occurring. He's clear I'm looking for work, or at least should be since other potential employers have contacted him in the past.

I had originally thought to do a little pre-programming with my supervisor to remind him of my successes and best attributes. I think it's a little late to do this now.

I'm wondering what the hive-mind knows about this subject and whether it's considered good form to contact your references to let them know in advance.

Had a a great job interview, but was asked for references. I don't have any! Am I done for?

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:06:45 -0800

I recently had a job interview that I felt fantastic about. However, the employer asked me to provide references. I can probably rustle up one, but other than that I've got nothing. Will this completely kill my chances of landing the job? The job is an entry-level position in IT. I feel that I'm a great fit for the job, and I really think the company is interested in hiring me. However, I'm really worried that the lack of references will look bad and sink my chances.

I don't have a lot of work experience. I had one IT-related job and worked retail in high school--that's about it. I'm pretty sure I can get a reference from the IT job, but that's the only one I'm fairly sure about.

1) Will this raise any red flags? I'd like to think that it's reasonable for an entry-level applicant to have few references. However, I know the employer is looking for several references. People are also telling me that it looks terrible to only submit one.

2) I might be able (and will try) to get a reference from my old retail job, but I last worked there seven years ago. Given that it was a retail job from that long ago, would that look silly or unprofessional?

3) I've did a bit of support and data entry for a friend that was setting up an e-commerce site for his family business. However, it wasn't officially a job so it never occurred to me to include this on my resume. I could probably get a reference from him, but it would be from a company that I never mentioned before. Also, his company is also located in a state on the other side of the country. Should I even try using him as a reference? Given the resume exclusion, I'm worried that it will seem like I'm trying to use a fake reference.

Apologies for the wall of text, and thanks for any insight.

How to double-check my job references?

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:34:27 -0800

I recently got turned down for a job I thought was a slam dunk, and am now really concerned about the quality of my references. Going forward, is there any way to check the quality of what people would say about me, or negotiate to improve whatever negative opinions they might have? The job in question was for a full-time position at the same place where I'm currently employed part-time, and while I know it's a tight economy, I believe I had equivalent paper qualifications to most of the other applicants, plus substantially more experience (one of the key listed criteria for the position). So, given that I wasn't even selected for an interview, the only thing I can think of is that there might be a problem with my references.

All three were from supervisors in the field, and I'd checked with everyone before listing them (all agreed). I also thought I'd performed well in all three positions, although in anxious retrospect I can definitely think of imperfections (an unresponded-to email here or there; a single negative comment on a performance evaluation, etc.) that I guess could have been expanded into a negative or lukewarm rec, depending on the person. Since I was hoping to use all these people on future applications, I'm wondering:

Is there any way to get more specific info on what kind of reference each of these people would give me? (All three supervisors are fairly passive, nice-guy types, so I'm wondering how to get a straight answer from any of them). Can I ask for individual meetings to discuss it more specifically, or would that just be awkward? Any alternative options for getting the straight dope on the issue?
In the case of people with whom I have an ongoing relationship (my current supervisor, for instance), is it fair to ask for feedback on what (if anything) I could do to change the quality of the reference in the future, or would I be wiser to write it off as a lost cause, assuming anything negative does come up?

Reference Check Legalities

Raynyn — Fri, 23 May 2008 21:38:24 -0800

In Canada, is it legal to verify the employment history of a job candidate without their consent? I've been offered a job "pending successful reference checks". The employer told me they needed 3 references, I provided 4 including one former supervisor from my second last job (I was fired from my most recent job). They were unable to reach my former supervisor, but they checked all my other references. So they then asked me for a reference from my last job (the one I got fired from), and I provided someone who I had a very close working relationship with but whom wasn't a direct employee of the organization. That was yesterday. Today I got another message complaining that they still weren't able to reach the supervisor I had listed as a reference and asking if I had another way to reach her. This was left on my cell phone, so I called back and left a message saying no I don't, but the prospective employer won't receive my message till Monday.

I'm worried that they are going to start, or have already started calling the organizations directly to verify my work history, and will find out I was fired in the most recent case, and in other cases that I have fudged my dates of employment. So I guess I'm wondering what the plausibility of this happening is? I'm supposed to start Monday, at least I was. Now I don't know.. Do I go in on Monday or not? I haven't been officially offered the position yet, but they thought reference checks would be done by now.. I'm getting a bit frustrated with the process though as they've now contacted 4 references and it seems a bit excessive or like they smell a rat?

'The closest to perfection a person ever comes is when he fills out a job application form.' - Randall

anastasiav — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:30:52 -0800

Question within about a request from a potential employer for additional references that I can't provide (not because they're bad, just due to circumstances), and how to handle the process of saying "no, sorry" to them. Short form: I've applied for a job I'm interested in and qualified for, had two interviews, and now the potential employer is in the process of checking my references, so I'm obviously a finalist. I originally provided four references, then last week they requested that I provide a reference from a specific previous employer, which I did. Now, today, they're asking "Is there a current or former supervisor with whom we can speak?" I've only had three jobs in the past 20 years, and there really isn't anyone I can provide that will fit that description. How do I tell him this?

Longer form: Worked for First company for 14 years; job was eliminated, left. Worked for Second company for one school year, left. Am currently working for Third company, where I have been for 3 1/2 years.

Obviously, I don't need my current supervisor to know that I'm looking for a job, so I can't provide a supervisor reference from there. Second company was a small nonprofit, and the Executive Director retired shortly after I left - I have no idea how to contact him. I have many friends at First company (where they requested the additional reference, which I provided - someone who was doing the same job as I was at the same time) but First company is a very, very large corporation with very strict rules about not commenting on any former employees. I had three supervisors while at First company - one left the company, got married and moved to Ireland, and the other two still work there and thus would be unable to comment.

I'm pretty sure that if I can't provide the reference they're requesting I won't get the job. But in the small hope that I might be able to somehow salvage this, I need some suggestions on how I tell the hiring manager (via email) that I'm not able to provide the information they want.

Thoughts and suggested email language welcome.

Back-door references and slander

IndigoRain — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:43:35 -0800

What is the least expensive and easiest way to fight a slanderous bad reference, when the reference's number was not provided by me? (The employer took the "back-door reference" route.) I was hired by a woman (with her own company) 6 weeks ago. I had given her 3 references and a list of previous employers. One of the previous employers, I only listed a name for (she was an individual who hired me) and my new employer took it upon herself to find this person's phone number and call her. (Monster.com calls this "back-door references", and calls it ethically questionable.) The former employer provided a false bad reference - she had fired me for personal issues, nothing relating to how I did my job, and may I say I had nearly had enoughl - and lied and told my new employer that I was absent all the time. Despite the bad reference, I was hired anyways, and not told about the bad reference.

I had a very serious family crisis this week (which is all I told my employer - "family crisis"), and had to miss one day. My new employer fired me for missing the one day, and told me about the bad reference she had received, and that that is why I didn't get a "second chance," so to speak. One missed day (for a very real and serious reason that I could have gotten documentation for) and I'm out, and she had never indicated it was going to be her policy.

Firstly, do I have any recourse since she did go the back-door route, circumventing my provided references and choosing to call someone else? (She did get positive references from the ones I provided.)

Secondly, as for the false reference, how can I fight it? The ex-employer won't return my calls. Is there a "cease-and-desist"-type letter I can send her? How hard is it to prove she had malicious intent when she gave that reference? I'm not sure I can afford a lawyer. Obviously, I'm not even going to list her as an ex-employer anymore.

I'm fired, what the hell now?

Kololo — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 22:54:43 -0800

Yesterday, I got fired from my job. I'm a Canadian living in Uganda, and I have (had) a job working full time as a consultant (marketing and business strategy) for a Ugandan manufacturing company. Officially i'm fired for 'non performance', in reality i'm fired for 'talking back' and being 'disrespectful'. It's a family owned company, and I was originally hired by Boss Brother A, who was very enthusiastic about the existence of my position. He's lived in the UK for 25 years, and is eager to move his family's business practices into the 21st century. Then, Boss A moved back to London, and I'm left reporting (sort of) to Boss Brother B, a man who has spent his whole life in Uganda and has gained a very powerful position in the country's business community. He thinks the very existence of my job is an insult to the family (I re-shaped a lot of their biz strategy, he's pissed about 'an outsider telling us what to do'.) Between his 'powerfulness' and the local culture, he's used to being able to scream at people and they just take it.

I didn't just take it, and when i defended myself against his outrageous lies and accusations (he does this to everybody) I was accused of being disrespectful and rude, etc. Now I'm fired (ostensibly for non-performance, but the items that 'justify' that cause are laughably refutable.)

So finally, the question(s): 1)What the hell can i do? At home this would be totally illegal, but without legal recourse, do i have any recourse at all? 2)How do i play this off at home? I'm counting on no one ever checking a ugandan job reference, do you think this is realistic? 3)My contract was up in mid-november, I'm tempted to lie to everyone at home and just pretend i'm still working, any reason i couldn't pull this off? 4)They owe me massive amounts of back-pay, any advice on making sure i get it? (Again, keep in mind there's no legal structure in place to help me.) Thanks.