Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with copywriting

Chicken or Egg? Who comes first, copywriter or designer?

gravitypanda — Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:44:39 -0800

I want an awesome website and I have wireframed the whole thing. I am planning on using the design contest process on 99designs and I have found an amazing copywriter on Odesk. Who should do their part of the work first? So, if I hired an agency to build this, obviously the copywriter and designer could talk, get coffee, have meetings and brainstorm. But I don't think I have that luxury. The way 99designs works I can get revisions, and in theory I could have my Odesk copywriter give input on the designs I get on 99design. But still, the essential question remains:

(1) --Who should do their job first?'

----1a----Do I get all the copy and give it to the designer with the wireframe?
----1b---Do I give the wireframe to the designer and give that output to the copywriter?

(2) How do the pros do it? What is the website building process in a crazy-cool urban shop?
(3) I am assuming that I bring in my coder once I have the photoshop design files from 99designs and the copywriting finished. Is this assumption correct? Is there any reason the coder needs to be brought in earlier?

Bonus Question.... As I go through this process, I don't have a budget to go around twice. Any tips for me to manage costs and get what I want as I go through the outsourcing process?

**Thanks to all of you that take the time to answer. I am continually amazed at the generosity and intelligence of the mefi community.

How can I find consistent freelance copywriting work for 5 cents a word?

tuberose — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:47:10 -0800

I'd like to get more into freelance copywriting. It's something I can do from home, and I'm pretty good at it. I have a money and time goal for it. Money: 5 cents a word Time: 15 hours a week Total: About $1,500 a month. I'm on Textbroker, but they rarely pay more than 1.5 cents a word. I'm open to pay-by-project too, if they're consistent. How would I go about finding regular clients/websites that could help me reach my goal?

How to get ahead in copywriting

indognito — Tue, 05 Feb 2013 07:38:23 -0800

I'm thinking about attempting to land an entry-level copywriting position, after working for over ten years in an unrelated field (public librarianship). I'm wondering if I currently have enough relevant experience to start sending out resumes, or if I need to beef up my portfolio a bit. And any general advice on copywriting careers would also be welcome. My relevant experience is this:
*I've recently published articles in a few not-terribly-prestigious publications (two children's magazines, one book review journal).
*I volunteered to to write newsletter articles for a local small nonprofit back in '08-'09.
*I worked in the development office of my library school back in '00, composing letters to alumni, donors, potential students, etc.
*I worked in the PR office of my college in undergrad (waaaaaaay back in the mid-'90s) writing most of their press releases, program brochures, etc.
*I wrote a successful grant for my current library (not copywriting, I know, but still sort of relevant...maybe?)
*I was an English major (that has to count for something, right?)

Is that enough to get started? I know it couldn't hurt to just knock on the doors of a few other nonprofits to see if I could get more current experience writing for them, but I am crunched for time these days (working full-time, doing some caregiving for a family member) and would like to make the most of my efforts. My partner thinks I've got enough experience and should just start sending out resumes. I tried doing this a few years back and was met with the proverbial chirping cricket. I realize the economy factors into all of this, so am looking for ways to quickly make myself look as appealing as possible to potential employers.

Thanks Metafilter!

I want to improve my copywriting skills.

bookmammal — Sun, 25 Nov 2012 07:18:08 -0800

I'm looking for an online course to help me improve my copywriting skills. I want to improve my copywriting skills--especially in the area of writing for an audience of educators. I've been told that I already have the basics--so I'm looking for a reputable, rigorous online course above the beginning level. My employer will pay for a portion of the tuition. I've done some internet searching, but there's a lot out there. Any suggestions or personal experience with this? If so, please share!

Should I take this copywriting job if I want to be a writer?

Michael Pemulis — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:51:26 -0800

I was hoping to be offered a writing job on the editorial side, but instead I'm going to be on the business/advertising side. What does this mean for me? I'm trying to break into the whole media-slash-writing-for-a-living business.

This year, I had an internship with internet media conglomerate X Media, and that went really well. I wrote for a high traffic blog and I'm currently using that experience to try to write for other websites or magazines. A month or two after the internship, X Media gets in contact with me and offers me a job. Only problem is that this gig isn't on the editorial floor. It may be called something like "content commerce" or "brand writing with an editorial tone." And I won't be reporting to an editor, but to a "suit" on the business side.

It's a job! It'll cover the bills, but it won't make me rich. And I'll be writing, but I'll definitely be selling something, as opposed to just, y'know, writing. I'm new to the industry and I don't know much about working in media, so I've got some general questions:

1. Is there some facet of journalistic ethics that means that doing this kind of sponsored work prohibits me from crossing over to the editorial side?

2. So let's say this gig goes well, but in a year I'm trying to write again. Will editors be skeptical if I don't have any clips from the last year?

3. Alternatively, what kind of work in the marketing or advertising worlds does writing sponsored posts qualify me for?

4. Have any of the writers out there switched between journalistic writing and copywriting? How did it work out for you?

How to bill for marketing / copywriting

monkeystronghold — Tue, 08 May 2012 10:14:33 -0800

How should I bill a client for freelance writing of marketing copy? After a few years of doing web/design work, I've taken on my first client for a freelance project that is only writing marketing copy. The strategy doc will likely include web copy, blog posts, marketing collateral and social networking content.

I feel like web/ design work is easy to bill hourly, because I can just sit and work out the project. Everything is forward movement. Marketing copy is more difficult because I'm not "muscling" though the words - I'm often waiting for a creative idea to hit me, and there is no telling when it hits me. The five words to define a brand will likely take me longer than all of the copy that fills the pages.

How do people bill out for this type of work?
Do you create a set project cost based on the number of words?
Do you ballpark the "thought hours"?
Do you only charge for the time putting words on paper?

Should I be paid for the work I produced in this interview?

cilantro — Sun, 15 Apr 2012 02:03:43 -0800

I recently attended a job interview which included a copywriting test - I was given some facts about an upcoming event and asked to write a press release. I did not get the job, however, the press release was released exactly as I wrote it (without my byline) and was picked up by a small local news blog and a local religious newspaper, as well as being used in the organisation's internal newsletter. The headline I wrote was also tweeted with a link to the event info on the organisation's website. So, on one hand, no big deal, but on the other hand, wtf? It's my work, released without my byline and without my permission. At no point during the interview process was it made clear in writing or verbally that the copywriting test would be used in this way. Should I just send them a bill or what?

What's the legality of a student using a musical track in a spec ad for a big brand?

rudhraigh — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:13:28 -0800

What's the legality of a student using a musical track in a spec ad for a big brand? So I'm a newly graduated advertising copywriter who's setting himself the challenge of making an ad for a major brand every day for a week. I want to use a variety of awesome musical tracks as backing, which I don't have explicit permission for. What's the legal standpoint of doing so? Since I'm not being employed by the brand, and I'm not making any money off it, (Although I will be using them as part of my portfolio) do I need to get permission from the copyright owner? Does it constitute "fan made"? In this situation, what constitutes "fair use"?

Writers: how do you educate clients who don't value your work?

mdiskin — Fri, 14 Oct 2011 10:18:38 -0800

Copywriters and other creatives: how do you protect yourself when dealing with clients who suck up time with extensive revisions, general indecisiveness, or just plain bad judgment? My larger projects can handle some ballooning of time in one direction or another, and for my big national clients there is always client awareness of my expertise and what it's worth. My problem is with taking on smaller clients who seem great at first, but then balk at suggestions, revise good writing into terrible, etc... I'm a freelancer with some lovely first-tier clients. I do excellent work. I have good client skills, and I work hard at really listening to the client. I get loads of repeat business and referrals, and my clients vary from major fashion houses to technology and manufacturing.

For recent smaller clients (local/small biz), I have a sit-down or phone call where we both lay out expectations, I send over an SOW/contract (sometimes with examples of typical deliverables for that type of project), get a formal acceptance of same, and then we go through the writing-revision cycle. When I hand off work, I preface it with an "as we discussed" paragraph so that clients see the work in context of previous conversations and find it easier to see how the work has developed off those conversations

I find that small-business clients are more likely to
- change good solid writing into bad
- rewrite elegant taglines that fit their business into clunkers that make people say "wait...what?"
- spend huge amounts of time on one aspect of the project and then once invoiced say "oh we never looked at X because we didn't have time, so will revisions to X be an additional charge"?

I am willing to be edited, and to work with clients to make them happy, but I'm wondering if I need to give these smaller clients a REALLY detailed SOW stating what our working relationship should be. This seems silly to do on projects lasting <10 hrs, but not if they turn into double that. And now I have to tell one client that light edits, but not wholesale revisions, would be covered under contract (even though I probably should charge extra), and wondering how to do it kindly.

What could I be missing? Do I need to append a short statement of what is NOT covered, with examples, sort of an anti SOW? Is this a recession-economy backlash against spending money, in the sense that everyone thinks he or she can write/design, etc? How do you notify clients of approaching time limits in a way that is not burdensome (especially on small projects)? I wonder also if there is another type of question to ask clients, sort of a "what are you not telling me" or "what do you see here that you think does NOT fit your plan" that I could ask early on to avoid big problems without coming across as negative toward my own work.

Web Copywriting Tips

rubbish bin night — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 03:12:14 -0800

What are your top tips and resources to help me write the most amazing website copy ever? I'm a professional copywriter, but I've never done a website before. I now have to put together an eight-page website on a tradesman and his products. Assume that I could figure it out for myself, but that I'd really like any extra advice I can get.

The guy in question doesn't really know what he wants, which gives me free rein (don't worry, I've got that potential recipe for disaster under control). I know the basics of SEO, so that's not really an issue - I am looking for resources that are aimed at professionals who want to create amazing sites that are worth reading, not just get clicks. Any info appreciated, from deciding how to structure the website onwards.

Ad Flack Woes

themaskedwonder — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:57:37 -0800

How do a build a copywriting portfolio? I've somehow found myself as a Copyeditor at a small Internet company startup out of college. It's not really a dream job, but it's something stable I can do while I figure out how to get to where I want to be. Recently, I've decided that I want to move out to The City. I'll need samples of my work for some of the bigger copywriting jobs, but there's a problem: my work is anonymized! We have clients that I write web copy for, but my name's not on any of it; most of the time, actually, it's under someone else's name. How do I get around this when making a portfolio? I'm afraid someone will google any samples I send, find out that it's posted under someone's name, and think I'm lying. How do I fix this? Thanks!

How to write better telemarketing scripts?

Kalatraz — Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:48:03 -0800

Can you recommend some resources to help me learn how to write fantastic outbound calling (telemarketing/teleprospecting) scripts? This week my "real job" responsibilities expanded to include writing outbound calling scripts for a small B2B telemarketing and teleprospecting team--and I'm flummoxed. Supporting field sales has given me an understanding of selling/sales process, and I'm an experienced copywriter, but thus far my outbound scripts take forever to write and aren't particularly effective.

Any ideas on how/where to get help? Sample or templated scripts for "standard" calls such as requesting contact information or following-up on a conference/webinar would be super-helpful in addition to some general "how to" from the trenches.

Thanks!

Help me calculate a day rate!

rubbish bin night — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:20:53 -0800

I'm a freelance copywriter who normally charges hourly. A prospective new client has asked me to give them my day rate. How should I calculate this? It's for a project that will take a couple of months, so I am happy to cut my rates a bit as I know that there will be ongoing work. Also, my hourly rates are calculated so that I can live comfortably when working 20 or so billable hours per week - they would be astronomical if I charged for 40+ hours per week for an extended period, and I neither need nor want to do that. In any case, it would price me out of the market.

However, I'm totally at a loss as to how much I should charge, and I don't want to short-change myself.

What kind of percentage hit would it be reasonable to take?

I've looked around on the internet and also checked out this question, but can't come up with a calculation that's appropriate to my situation.

If it's relevant, I will be working part of the day on-site and part of the day at home.

(I live and work in the Euro-zone, so US rates are probably not applicable to me, especially as I am employed as a native speaking copywriter of a specific dialect of a foreign language. I'm more interested in finding a general calculation method.)

Staying abreast of the ads that are best

Shepherd — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:04:43 -0800

I need to keep on top of the advertising/marketing zeitgeist. Which blogs and online resources should I be reading? My focus is North American print and social media (more billboards/magazine/Internet, less radio/TV). Suggestions of paid content (i.e. the Creativity Online full access annual subscription) are welcome, but free is king.

I'm interested in trends, strategy, and thoughtful analysis.

Pure design is good, but not critical.

I can live without more "ads suck and here are more ads that suck and this is why these ads suck" blogs in my life.

How do I become an advertising copywriter?

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:05:49 -0800

How do I get involved in copywriting and other creative endeavors in the advertising industry? As someone in the industry, what do you believe is essential for me to learn in order to become successful and happy? What books, blogs, etc. should I be reading? I live in a major metropolitan area in the US that has a sizable ad industry with many big-name accounts. I like it here, so I don't plan on moving to either of the coasts.

I'm in my early 20s and have decided to get a bachelors degree. I plan to apply to a local 4-year art and design school (one of the top in the country) because I want to enroll in one of their advertising-centric programs. I'm trying to decide between their B.S. and B.F.A programs, and will be meeting with them soon to get more information.

Here's my throwaway, just in case: wannabeadwoman@gmail.com

Ads where a word is worth 1000 pictures

Shepherd — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:59:36 -0800

Great text-driven (print) ads from 2009? I'm currently working on a project that involves championing the text component of advertising: finding ads where the text is front and centre as opposed to the visual, and language is used intelligently and playfully to sell an idea or concept. I've got a few things lined up, from local businesses to national campaigns, but I'd like to see more ads, most likely print/billboard ads (but TV/Web is also a possibility) where the written word (i.e. visually present, a clever script read with no words on-screen won't cut it) is the star, and does its job remarkably well. Ideas?

ad concept confusion

Jason and Laszlo — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:06:57 -0800

New to copywriting: what is an 'ad concept' ? I do a lot of writing and now taking a stab at copywriting. I've been hired to produce 5-10 ad concepts for a single page ad, to include headlines and blurbs.

Please explain what an ad concept is! Is this a fully realized idea, or a general idea to be worked out later? Will each of the 5-10 concepts need to be fully realized? (and if so, is this a crazy assignment?)

(The person who hired me seems to be a little upset with my ignorance, otherwise I would keep asking him.)

CopyWriterFilter 5000: How do copywriters come up with names for products and product lines?

metajc — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:49:23 -0800

CopyWriterFilter 5000: How do copywriters come up with names for products and product lines? I've been slowly transforming into a copywriter (so painful) and have been tasked with developing around 40 "unique, sonorous" product names for a well-known manufacturer.

I took a drive around town to brainstorm and noticed that housing subdivisions seem to have been named with use of a programmed, automated name builder ... such that "some British village name" + "a random selection of 'wood' 'creek' or 'view'" = American McMansionville. Are they using a system to whip those out?

That's a horrible example and not what I'm looking to do ... but are there systems for developing brand names that could quicken my pace? Are there some sites and/or books I can read about that?

"Well, as you can see ... it SUCKS as it CUTS!"

Can I grow my writing indoors?

miniminimarket — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:06:34 -0800

I'm a freelance writer who mostly does entertainment writing, but I want to branch out into copywriting. What's the best direction for me and what are the next steps? I'm a writer and editor in my late twenties. Currently I write for websites and consumer print magazines about entertainment (music, mostly). I've always been interested in online stuff that a lot of work friends weren't keen on -- maintaining an online presence, social media, finding out CTRs on email newsletters and Twitters...

I've written a few press releases and artist bios, and I've done a little content writing. I think I could be great at writing web copy, with my interest in and knowledge of social media as an added value for clients. But if I were to do this, I would want to as a freelancer, since I'm already a full-time freelance writer.

For fun and learning I've read The Copywriter's Handbook, Hey Whipple, and many marketing books, both theory and practice, and a few new books on social media marketing.

So, next steps: What's the best way to build a portfolio? Do I really need to go intern somewhere or get a staff job before I can go freelance? What should my list of services include? And how could I use my experience as a freelance writer?

Thanks in advance for any tips and advice.

Crash course in freelance copywriting?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:02:27 -0800

I need a crash course in freelance copywriting. Yikes! I posted an ad to craigslist offering freelance copywriting, copyediting, and transcription services. I had no idea that it would pay off so quickly - I've got an offer for a job sitting in my inbox right now. And I have no idea what to do next.

I've done plenty of marketing writing, but it's all been within a full-time job. I've done some freelance writing for magazines, but that feels a bit different from a situation where I'm a vendor providing services to a client. What do I need to do to set up shop and provide good customer service?

- How do I figure out the scope of the work? The job entails writing copy for a revamped website. Do I simply talk to them, find out the pieces they need, work on a tone with them, and go?

- How do I get details on the product? Should I expect them to send me a spec sheet or existing marketing copy?

- Is it better to charge an hourly or flat rate for a project of this type? What do clients expect?

- How do I need to get set up, business-wise? Do I need to file any kind of paperwork or form a company, or can I just have the client cut a check to me, Jane. Q. Individual?

- How do I write a simple contract? Do I need to get a lawyer involved?

Any other tips or reminders about steps I've missed would be very helpful. Thanks!

Ideas for effective brainstorming session?

Elminster24 — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:53:16 -0800

Help me come up with some fun brainstorming exercises and tools for my company's new software product messaging! The software company I work for is coming out with a new product (I unfortunately cannot disclose further details around this) and I'm hosting a brainstorming session with some creative folks here to kick start the creation of taglines and other product messaging (website copy, sales PPTs, white papers, etc.).

I will be providing my team with a list of the product's benefits, and mini positioning statements for our 4 target buyer persona's.

Please suggest some fun and engaging brainstorming exercises and tools that I can use with a small group (<10) to help formulate taglines and other useful messaging tidbits that could be helpful later on.

One thought I had was to play word association with keywords from the product benefits I'll be giving them.

I don't really have much time or budget (make that NO budget) to put this together so please take that into consideration. Happy to answer any questions that are not related to the specific company/product.

Also, if anybody has good links to resources on hosting these sorts of sessions those would be much appreciated as well.

I'm an experienced copywriter -- how do I find a job in a city where I know no one in the industry?

Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:32:21 -0800

I'm an experienced copywriter -- how do I find a job in a city where I know no one in the industry? I have a fairly strong book of copywriting work, including for some A-list clients (BMW, Coca-Cola), but most of that work was done for agencies overseas, and much of it was freelance. I never became a part of the ad industry circles. I recently moved to Los Angeles and I don't know anyone in the industry here and have few contacts. What's the best strategy for finding a job in such a situation?

I never had to look for a copywriting job before, so I really don't know how it's done. My previous opportunities came through people I knew. How do I find a job when I don't know anyone?

Portfolio? No one said anything about a portfolio!

andeles — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:33:11 -0800

I applied for a copywriting job that I thought I had no chance of ever hearing back from, and they have actually asked me for a portfolio. But I don't have one - yet! Help! I have a BA in English, and I'm sort of in an MS in computer science program at a university in Chicago, taking prerequisite classes before I actually enter the program in the winter. I've been unhappy so far, and so I've been researching jobs in the area, and stumbled across an awesome advertising company located downtown, and lo and behold, they had a junior copywriter position open. On a complete whim, I applied, never actually expecting to hear back. Well, my cover letter must have been pretty good, because I got an email back asking for my portfolio. The catch: I've never actually written copy before, and I don't have a portfolio.

A portfolio is something that I've been meaning to put together for some time, but I've never felt that I had any real content to display. I almost feel like I must have been a little disingenuous in my cover letter, because why else would they have responded to me? But I didn't claim to have prior copywriting experience, and my resume definitely reflects that. The job description said that the position required 0-2 years of prior experience, which was why I had the temerity to apply in the first place. I believe that my writing skills are strong enough for the job, but the only writing samples that I have would be from essays that I had written for school. I also could link to a Flash presentation and a website that I built for class projects.

My question(s): is it worth it to pull an all-nighter and try to get something online? If I do try to throw something up, what should I use? Should I try to put it all in something like Wordpress or Blogger? I think that I have some online storage through my internet provider - should I try for that route (and if so, what are some good templates to use, and how does one go about registering a domain name)? Or should I just admit that I have nothing to show them yet, because I've never actually done this before? Am I just wasting their/my time?

All advice, insight, and answers would be greatly appreciated. I would like to have something to send the recruiter by tomorrow morning.

copyeditors: how many hours?

oigocosas — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:25:10 -0800

hey copywriters/editors: about how long might it take you to edit a 20-page product brochure averaging 10 items/page? thanks!

Putting the hyphen in "anal-retentive"?

melorama — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:05:18 -0800

Is this an acceptable format for writing out a business address on a mailing label? Is this an acceptable format for writing out a business address on a mailing label?

334 Main Street 312

IOW, "312" is the number of our office suite.

I maintain that by not adding a "#" or "Suite. " before the 312, it's potentially confusing to some people who may tend to "skim" through visual data like this.

My coworker, on the other hand is adamant--to the point of being really fucking annoying about it--that there should be no pound sign or "Suite." designation before the actual suite number. If he sees that I've printed a mailing label with a pound sign before the suite number, he tells me to print the label again, without the pound sign, or even goes out of his way to print up a "correct" label himself, and re-doing my work.

The funny thing is, *I'm* supposed to be the one who is more savvy at design and typography than he is (although I don't claim to be a designer or typographer by any stretch of the imagination. I just have a more educated/geeky appreciation for these things). And I can understand being aesthetically anal when it comes to your own personal business cards and whatnot, but these are fucking mailing labels and videocassette labels that are delivered to TV stations, generally to people who give two shits about typographic style.

Any copywriters and/or typographers here care to set me straight?