Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with classics

What are the great patterning works of literature?

jason's_planet — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:39:25 -0800

What are the great patterning works of literature? In Book by Book, Michael Dirda presents a list of what he calls “patterning works” which he describes as books that “. . later authors regularly build on, allude to, work against.” and which he says “ . . . ought to lie at the heart of any structured reading program.” I'm not entirely satisfied with his list, although I have to say that I don't have a rich enough background in the history of literature to be able to refute his claims effectively. Perhaps some of you all might be able to help me. Here it is:

The Bible (Old and New Testament)
Bullfinch's Mythology (or any other accounts of the Greek, Roman and Norse myths)
Iliad
Odyssey
Plutarch, Lives of the Noble Greeks and Romans
Dante, Inferno
The Arabian Nights
Thomas Malory, Le Morte D'Arthur
Shakespeare, especially the major works such as Hamlet, Henry IV, part one, King Lear, A Midsummer Night's Dream, Tempest
Cervantes, Don Quixote
Daniel Defoe, Robinson Crusoe
Jonathan Swift: Gulliver's Travels
Fairy Tales of Brothers Grimm
Any substantial collection of the world's major folktales
Jane Austen: Pride and Prejudice
Lewis Carroll: Alice in Wonderland
Arthur Conan Doyle: The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes

How would you change this list, if at all? Are there great patterning works that he's missed entirely? If so, what sort of influence did they have and on which authors? Are any of these works overrated and not as influential as he claims? Or is this actually a pretty good list, one that needs no change at all? As always, many thanks in advance.

P.S. If you know of any good folktale compilations, feel free to recommend them here. Thanks!

Help me find "Living Famously"

crossoverman — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:07:27 -0800

Can anyone help me track down a documentary series called "Living Famously"? That link goes to the Australia ABC site which screened the series in about 2004.

Details of the series here from 2002 MIPCOM:

LIVING FAMOUSLY
Documentary/ 25 x 60’
Language: English
Producer: BBC
Cast: James Dean, Marvin Gaye, Laurel
and Hardy, Peter Sellers, Karen Carpenter
Delivery status: in production
Year of production: 2002, Country of
origin: UK
A stunning series of biographical portraits
revealing the true stories of the lives of 25
of the greatest names in international
entertainment.

(From the ABC Australia site: Camera/Director: Cassie Farrell)

It hasn't screened in Australia since then, nor can I find any reference to it on the BBC site. I am particularly interested in the episodes that covered classic Hollywood, because the collection paints an interesting portrait of how entangled the lives of certain celebrities were during the 30s and 40s.

Is this series for sale anywhere? Online? Torrents? I am actually happy to pay for it if it's for sale anywhere, but my Google Fu isn't working if that's true.

I almost doubted the series existed (as a series, I thought it might have been old A&E bio episodes repurposed for screening here) - couldn't quite remember its name, until I searched the ABC Australia site (Lana Turner, who I knew had been profiled, led me to its name).

Now I find it odd I can barely find it referenced anywhere - ie. it doesn't seem to be on IMDB at all!

Good publisher of Italian classics?

vespr1610 — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:37:51 -0800

Good publisher of Italian classics? I ask only this: the text is as it was first written, the book is free from the pollution of study notes. I suppose I'm looking for the Italian equivalent of England's 'Oxford University Press', or Germany's 'Reclam'.

How to Handle Classical Reading Lists?

Bromius — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:11:32 -0800

I'll be starting a Ph.D. program in Classics in the fall. Protips requested---especially as regards the reading list. I've been out of school for a year, so I'm excited to get back into the swing of things, academically speaking. For the moment, the most daunting prospects are the arm-long Greek and Latin reading lists; I've got to take one of the reading exams by the end of my first year, and the other by the end of my second.

My primary question is this: How should I handle these lists? Should I read the texts in English first so I get the gist, and then skim in the original? Should I rely on the Loebs? How do I make sure I have some grasp on as many of the selections as possible within the time allotted? What strategies have worked for you?

Secondarily, o Classics grad students, any general advice you'd offer to someone about to start in a program?

Classic English literature

coolnik — Sun, 10 May 2009 19:51:04 -0800

Help me find classic English literature! As a non-native English speaker, I started using English in my day-to-day business only after the age of 22. Now I am 30, and working in the US in the profession where I have to deal with a whole lot of scientific writing in English. Since I started so late, I almost bypassed developing my skills as a student of English language itself. As a consequence, I have no clue whatsoever as to what are the highly recommended / must read classic English literature works.

I realize that in all probability, reading classic literature may not directly contribute to enhancing my reading/writing skills---though I am inclined to believe in a more indirect influence. The work that I have read and that comes closest to the classics is J. D. Salinger's Catcher in the rye.

Thanks in advance to the hivemind.

Arma virumque cano

aheckler — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:56:10 -0800

I'm a college senior who's minoring in Classical Humanities. How can I stay up-to-date in this field after graduation? I usually skim through Arethusa and the American Journal of Philology from time to time, reading individual articles as they pique my interest. However, I'm uncertain about my access to these after graduating, so I'm looking for other sources of classics news.

Ideally, I'd like a few well-written and informative websites about classical studies that will help me stay current. Something like ArmsControlWonk would be perfect if it was about Nero instead of nukes. Is there an OvidWonk blog somewhere out there?

Must See Movies

netbros — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:47:38 -0800

What were the movies that made you go WOW? I recently got a DVD player (yes, I finally joined the 21st century) and it's time to catch up on what I've been missing. Please help me find classic films, cerebral plot-twisters, mystery and science fiction, light-hearted romance and comedy... basically anything that when you walked out of the theater or saw them on TV, you said to yourself, "WOW!, I want to see that again!"

Primary texts describing ancient Roman housing

sarahalisonmiller — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:06:32 -0800

I will soon be teaching a course on ancient Roman domestic spaces, and I am looking for primary source material to supplement readings in scholarship. Any suggestions of Roman texts (poetry, fiction, history, law, biography) that describe a Roman domestic space (domus, villa, insula, palace) would be much appreciated. Textual exempla of Roman domestic practices are also welcome (e.g., the account of Trimalchio's banquet in Petronius' Satyricon).

Essential texts in German literature?

philosophygeek — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:15:23 -0800

I want to acquire familiarity with famous works of German literature. What works would a typical person growing up in Germany have been exposed to as classics or as exemplary works? I'm particularly interested in works that would be assigned in a Gymnasium or early university studies, akin to what American students are asked to read in high school or college Lit 101-type classes.

Best translation of Marcus Aurelius' Meditations

ac — Sun, 18 May 2008 21:39:28 -0800

What is the best English translation of Marcus Aurelius' Meditations out there, and why?

cool classic gift for a one year old

kanemano — Mon, 12 May 2008 21:18:00 -0800

Next Sunday is my friends son's 1st birthday, what can I get the little tyke that would be a great gift for about $50, it hopefully would be something that is not a stuffed animal, that will last until the time he has the ability to remember it.

Please recommend some bog-standard classic children's music.

Bugbread — Sat, 10 May 2008 08:06:01 -0800

Please recommend some bog-standard classic children's music. I'm not looking for original children's music, like They Might Be Giants or Dino 5, but standards, like "I'm a Little Teapot", "If You're Happy And You Know It", "Mary Had A Little Lamb", etc.

I'm also not looking for clever reinterpretations, like jazz versions of the standards, cover versions by hip post-rock bands, etc.

Just the straight-forward, straight-up children's music classics.

Literature sites in spanish?

ersatz — Thu, 08 May 2008 19:52:57 -0800

Do you know any good sites in Spanish about literature, preferably with an emphasis on classic books or writers? Sites about both international and Spanish/Latin American literature are welcome. After recently reading a couple of book reviews in Spanish, I decided to do it more often. Being familiar with some of the books or writers discussed enhances my enjoyment, hence the "classic books" part, but I'd like to know your favorite contemporary literature/reviews/criticism site too.

Searching past questions tagged with Spanish gave me globalvoicesonline.org (and el chiste del caballo verde, but that's another story).

Should I take on significant debt in pursuit of a Classics PhD?

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:27:09 -0800

I've been accepted to a Classics PhD program, and I can't decide whether to go or not. It's a good second-tier program, and the research interests of a number of the faculty line up almost exactly with my own, something that was remarked upon a number of times when I spoke with them. When I got the letter of acceptance, I was thrilled.
Here, of course, is the catch: funding. I'm on the funding wait-list at the moment, and the deadline for my decision is April 15th. The possibility exists that I could end up with full funding at the last minute, but I'm operating under the assumption that I won't.
Now, since I already have an MA (in Classics and Comp Lit), I think I can shave a couple classes off the coursework, and I should be able to finish that within 2.5 years. Without any funding, however, this comes to roughly $90k for tuition alone.
I really want to do this. Really really really. I've been wanting to get a PhD in Classics since high school, as odd as that may sound. Yet my girlfriend, my parents and a number of my friends have warned me about getting into such debt. It is, I realize, a huge obligation. The chances of my making much money at all after graduation is essentially nil.
Yet I don't know what else I want to do with my life. I would be incredibly disappointed in myself if I simply walked away from this offer because I couldn't afford it. "Lots of people," I tell myself, "have taken on massive student debt and ended up more-or-less OK." Other people around me insist differently, especially with as non-lucrative a field as Classics.
I should add, I've been accepted at another school, but the offer is without funding at all, and the cost would be roughly the same.

So, I'm stymied. My personal inclination is to accept and take on the debt as best I can. The voice of reason, however, is telling me otherwise. Any ideas? Suggestions? Thoughts?

Now, where have I seen that before?

Melismata — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:06:27 -0800

Looking to make a list of famous artists, in all media, who "started it all." I'm making a list of brilliant artists who are so now part of the mainstream culture that when I finally read/view/hear the original, it is almost anticlimatic. For example, I recently saw an Agatha Christie play and thought, "hmm, this is nothing but a cliched mystery story. Oh, wait, she's the one who INVENTED the genre."

Other examples include:

Tolkien--"this is every fantasy story I've ever read. Oh, wait."

Picasso--"this is just an abstract, cubist painting. Oh, wait."

The Three Stooges--"these are just a bunch of guys engaging in slapstick humor, hitting each other on the head. Oh, wait." (Similar: the Marx Brothers)

Beethoven--"how come his music seems to straddle both the classical and romantic period? Oh, wait--he invented the romantic period."

And an oft-quoted one, Shakespeare--"these plays have too many cliches in them. Oh, wait."

I'm looking for any and all "oh, wait."s Thanks much.

Mystery Sneakers from the past

nnk — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:53:08 -0800

What's the name of these sneakers? I am not sure they're still made, but they're not Chuck Taylors or Fred Perrys (more like Chucks than Freds) -- They're mostly canvas (off-white) with a thick white rubber toe cap with a black (or blue?) 'smile' in the cap. I wore them in the late 70s and early 80s. I don't know if they were designed for a specific sport maybe tennis or basketball . . . classics -- and I think they have a man's name, but I am not sure.

How do I find a copy of a movie from 1919?

Newbornstranger — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 11:26:24 -0800

After months of research, we've finally discovered the film that was shown the night my theatre opened in 1919. The question is, how would I go about finding out if there are existing prints of this movie available? We'd love to have a showing of this film for our 90th anniversary, but I'm having zero luck tracking the film down online. Any pointers?

Suggest your favorite classic romance film

sonofslim — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:04:59 -0800

Oh man, I am a sucker for old romances. Your film recommendations, please? My guilty pleasure: getting hammered and watching whatever's on PBS at 3am. Tonight it was one of my favorites, The Best Years of our Lives. Other films I love include St. Martin's Lane and Ball of Fire. Hook me up with your favorite b&w romantic comedies or all-out weepers, so I can fill my Netflix queue instead of waiting on public television for my fix.

Is there a "universal" book?

Jaybo — Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:41:49 -0800

Which book would you consider a "universal" book? As a new librarian who formerly worked in book publishing, I am well aware that there are hundreds of thousands of books published each year. Of course, some become bestsellers but many are never heard from again.

This led me to wonder which books (if any) could be considered "universal" books (for example, if you wanted to do a library display about these transcendent books.)

This is the criteria I came up with:
- a book that's likely to have been read by English-speaking readers anywhere in the world (and also widely in translation)
- people will have read it across multiple generations without it going in and out of fashion
- it's *not* a book that people widely own but often don't read thoroughly (ie. The Bible, A Brief History of Time)
- it's *not* a story that people know because it's part of our culture but that the majority might not have read in book form (fables, "A Christmas Carol")
- doesn't matter if its highbrow (Hamlet) or lowbrow (Stephen King), fiction or non-fiction (or any genre for that matter)

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

Are snobs the new dinosaurs?

grumblebee — Wed, 10 May 2006 11:17:41 -0800

Who is buying music by Shostakovich, watching silent movies, and reading Thackeray? I love classical music, old movies and classic literature. But most of my peers prefer pop music, contemporary films, and graphic novels. So when I want to talk about my passions, I usually have to find someone older than me (I'm 40).

My question is, when I'm 70 and all my elders are dead, will I have anyone to talk to? I know that the big media stores have classical sections -- sometimes quite large -- but who is shopping there? Does classical music sell to people under 30? If not, are we losing our past? Will interest in older works fade to nothing? (I suspect there will always be an audience for Beethoven's 9th Symphony, but what about more obscure pieces that aren't used in commercials or movie soundtracks?)

For a while I suspected that the classics might get lost for a while and then re-discovered, but now I wonder. Often things from the past become trendy in the present, but it's usually stuff from the RECENT past -- like 60s fashions coming back. No one ever wears Elizabethan clothes, unless they're in a play.

So have I just been unlucky in the people I've met? Are there actually tons of 40-year-olds, listening to Mahler and watching Billy Wilder films -- AND passing that love onto their children?

I know some of you could reply to this by saying, "I'm 23, and I love classical music." That's great, but it's not what I'm looking for. I KNOW there are exceptions, and I suspect Metafilter members to be exceptions. I'm talking about general trends. How much of a dinosaur am I?

Laugh-out-loud funny classic lit?

mediareport — Mon, 08 May 2006 21:03:21 -0800

Any suggestions for classic literature that offers the hope of belly laughs? I'm looking for laugh-out-loud funny classic fiction, preferably pre-1900. Kind of like this question, but with books instead of movies. I've been on a classic lit kick lately, and after finishing (and enjoying) a fairly serious, gritty and occasionally dryly funny series of Chekhov short stories I'm in the mood for something lighter. If it helps, I like a lot of modern comic fiction (Terry Pratchett, George Saunders, McSweeney's folks, e.g.), and love when Shakespeare gets madcap. I also laugh out loud at Patrick O'Brian's comedy of manners stuff in the Aubrey/Matin books, but for some reason I'm skeptical when friends use that to recommend Jane Austen for laughs. Open to Greek/Roman stuff, too, as long as it doesn't require a knowledge of G/R history (which I don't have) to get the jokes.

Points for a comparison essay between Apollo and Dionysus?

northernsoul — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:29:58 -0800

Points for a comparison essay between Apollo and Dionysus? I have a classics exam coming, and I've had some trouble finding points comparing Apollo and Dionysus. Are there any resources around that summarize the arguments on this topic?

Should I even bother trying to learn ancient Greek?

sid — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:00:08 -0800

I want to read Plato in the original Greek. Unfortunately, I don't know any. I want to gain sufficient reading skill in ancient Greek to be able to tackle Plato and Aristophanes. I have read a couple English translations but my thinking is that nothing quite beats the original.

I am currently a full time student in a field that is very far from classics, and I anticipate (fervently pray) that I will have a full time permanent job soon. I would be teaching myself the language from books without any live teachers.

How long term of a project is this? Is this a realistic undertaking for someone who doesn't have superhuman motivation and discipline? How should I begin my study of Greek with the aim of reading the classic texts?

Which translations of western classics should I read?

adrianhon — Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:39:53 -0800

Which translations of western classics like the Iliad, Odyssey and Oresteia would you recommend? I've never had much interest in reading classical literature until recently, when I've found references to them cropping up repeatedly in various essays and books I've been reading. I'm very keen on reading them, but searching on Amazon brings up multiple different translations, and I'm not sure which is suitable.

Basically, I'm looking for translations that are easily readable yet also hew closely to the spirit of the original work. I suppose this might be too much to wish for, but I have bad memories of reading bone-dry classics in school and I suspect part of the problem was the translations used.

Related to this - which other classics would be a good idea to read?

A guide to classical philosophy?

edd — Sat, 03 Dec 2005 06:22:54 -0800

My mother has asked me if I can find a book for her for Christmas. She's after something on philosophy - the classical variety in particular. Any suggested titles? It should cover the ideas of the great Greek and Roman philosophers in a more digestible form than translations of the original texts. She's more interested in areas that apply to your outlook on life, say, than anything overly abstract or metaphysical. She'll happily dig into a pretty dense tome and it need not be dumbed down - the important thing is that the prose be modern and comprehensible, even if the subject matter is complex.

No Sophie's World suggestions please!