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Make us feel better about the bar exam

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 19:51:33 -0800

My husband just finished taking the Tennessee bar exam and just found out that they changed the way they grade it - and it's in opposition to his test taking strategy. Help us down off the ledge! In the past, the essay questions were pass/fail so the strategy was to spend the time on the questions you knew you could pass - even if you left a couple blank. So that's what he did. He answered 10 (pretty well he thinks), left one completely blank, and might've left a few thoughts on the other one (he was on his laptop and can't remember if he deleted what he had for that one). So, I know there is nothing he can do about it now. But that doesn't stop the freaking out that is happening at my house right now.

We can't find find a lot of details in the grading but what we do find says that the test taker has to score 135 points in both the multiple choice and the essay portion. The multiple choice is out of 200 so I guess the essay is too? And then there is scaling too. But by my calculations, if he only answered 10 then he needed to get an average of 81 on each one to pass. Does that sound impossible?

To sum up, I'd like to know if anyone has any more details about the scoring (a lot of stuff is out of date online) and if anyone has any words of reassurance that might possibly make my husband feel better?

Tortes?

sallybrown — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:40:24 -0800

What's a silent, odorless, and neat snack that will fit in a one gallon plastic bag and fuel the test-taking stamina of a bar examinee? A good friend of mine is taking the NY bar exam in a few days, and will be allowed to bring a snack to the test center if said snack fits the above criteria. No refrigeration, no time to pause and peel an orange, no disturbing the crazed future lawyers around him, etc. This needs to be something that won't break his pace, and will hopefully keep him as clear-headed and mentally energetic as possible for 4-6 hours.

This question had some helpful suggestions, but (1) he dislikes granola-type bars (incl. Luna, Clif, Nutragrain) and (2) he is worried that nuts will be deemed too loud and fruit will be adjudged too messy. (The proctors apparently look over everyone's gallon bags upon entry and won't hesitate to toss banned items.)

All of which made it very hard for me to think of something. Any suggestions?

Panicking and studying don't mix.

Anonymous — Mon, 28 Jun 2010 12:46:55 -0800

I'm studying to take the bar in July. Two bars, actually. I'm also dealing with some heavy personal problems. How do I push those aside so I can actually pass this damn test? I don't think the details of my problems are that relevant. Things that might be:

-I have major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder. I am being treated for these things.

-I have a shrink. She rocks. I can only see her once a week and she's out of town for the next two, and frankly I need advice nownownonwonow. Yesterday now.

-I can't afford to miss any bar study time. I need to get beyond all of this personal stuff that is paralyzing me and I need to work, but I can't compartmentalize like that.

-I've been doing BarBri pretty faithfully, and I just took a practice MBE where I did just as poorly as I did when I took a practice MBE *before* doing any studying a month ago. This is extremely discouraging and I'm convinced that there is no way I can pass.

-If it's useful at all, I'm taking PA & NJ.

I don't think I need the "get thee to another therapist" or other answers like that. I just need practical tips on how to work through the tears. I don't have the luxury of taking a mental health day -- I just have to work.

Thanks in advance for any tips you can give me.

Throwaway e-mail: panicbar@gmail.com

Suggestions for beginner BarBri bar exam taker who cannot attend live lectures?

anthropomorphic — Sat, 29 May 2010 16:26:41 -0800

Suggestions for beginner BarBri bar exam taker who cannot attend live lectures? I'm a 3L whose final exams have only just finished today (yes, a Saturday). Along with most of my classmates, I've been putting off even thinking about the bar exam until now. Additionally because I'm in Chicago this summer but am studying for the Texas state bar exam, there are no live lectures for me to attend anyway, I'll just be watching videos at home in my room. I looked at a schedule for in-state TX exam-takers and I'm apparently already six days worth of lectures behind. Does anyone have any tips on how to keep motivated in the face of no live classes? Any studying-for-the-bar tricks in general?

Buy Bare-Bones BAR/BRI Books, Become Barrister?

17564 — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:44:51 -0800

I would rather buy a set of 2009 New York BAR/BRI books on eBay than take the course this summer. I know people attempt this -- there is a burgeoning second-hand market for the materials on eBay. Are these people savvy, or are they suckers? Leaving aside the intangible benefits of being with the herd, my question is this: can a well-disciplined 3L pass the New York bar with only the physical BAR/BRI materials and study schedule, sans the taped lectures and bad karma from the lecture hall?

I Am Not A Lawyer... Yet.

greekphilosophy — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:31:12 -0800

Suggestions for getting the most out of BarBri while staying employed full-time? I'm taking the February 2010 Texas Bar Exam. I'm employed full time (a strict 9-6 schedule) and enrolled in BarBri. I have to do the mobile course because I don't live close enough to a testing site to get there in time for the nightly videos. How do I make the most of this experience while remaining employed full time? Is that possible? Is that stupid?*

Factors to consider:

- I'm not a morning person. I would love to wake up at 5am and start studying for a couple hours before work, but that just isn't going to happen.

- I AM a night person. I can stay up until about 2am just about every night and still function the next day. After 2am I'm pretty much no good.

- I have no children and no responsibilities and I'm pretty clear that a social life is out. I'm okay with that.

- I live 10 minutes from work. No need to factor in a major commute or anything of that nature.

- I did not go to law school in Texas, and I graduated in 2007 so any relevant law school studies are probably either stale or irrelevant.

- My work environment is not conducive to studying. I am a case manager for a social service agency, and I see clients on a walk-in basis. That means that I'm constantly interrupted. My office is also tiled and located next to a children's immunization clinic: their little screams reverberate through my skull all day long.

*I'm fairly certain this is a stupid plan, and I'm fully ready to slash my hours. But before I do that, I need to hear any and all suggestions for how to stay employed full-time while preparing for the bar exam.

Which New York state bar review course should I take?

Salamandrous — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:40:00 -0800

I would like advice on preparing for the New York bar exam. Realistically I'd write it July of next year. I definitely need a review course - I finished law school two years ago and that was Canadian law. I'm working (though a reasonable and flexible schedule) so I'd like a review that's somehow part time, or aimed for working people. I'm living in Brooklyn and working in Manhattan. In Montreal the only course they offered was BarBri and that's all I'd heard of. Googling I also see Pieper and Kaplan. I found a weekends course through Pieper but had more difficulty with the Kaplan and BarBri sites.

My job is only 32 hours a week and quite flexible - might it work to do a full-time 6 week course while working 32 hours a week?

Is Pieper good? Is something else better? Is something best? I'd really love to hear any suggestions or experiences.

I know myself that I need structured instruction and deadlines, so even though I know that some people have studied successfully on their own, it's not for me. I'm almost positive I'd do better with a live course and not recorded.

Thank you!

Does the USPTO like me? Y/N

palmcorder_yajna — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:12:46 -0800

Should I take the patent bar? I just figured out that I'm qualified to sit for the patent bar. That's pretty cool, but would it actually be useful?

Here's the deal. I'm an attorney admitted to practice in 2 states in the Pacific Northwest, but I don't actually want to practice law.

For the past few years, I've been working as a paralegal and taking as many biology, chemistry, and math classes as possible, with an eye toward getting a Ph.D in molecular and cellular bio. The grad school thing is going to happen soon. There's a small chance I'll be going this fall and there's a nearly 100% chance that I'll be a grad student as of fall '10.

Stipends for grad students, as I'm sure y'all know, are not the most generous things on earth, so it would be really nice to have some kind of extremely part-time, supplemental income stream while I'm working toward my Ph.D. Years ago, when I was fresh out of law school and pounding the pavement looking for entry-level lawyer jobs, I was told by recruiters and HR types that there was a lot of part-time and temporary contract work out there for patent attorneys, even if they didn't have experience or sterling academic credentials. This, however, was before the dot-com bubble burst.

Since that time, I've not talked to a lot of recruiters or HR types, but I have heard a many, many (non-IP) attorneys gushing at length about the wonders of patent bar membership. I hear that work is plentiful, that contract assignments are easy to find as mushrooms after a spring rain, and that if you're not interested in prestige, partnership, or ladder-climbing, you can essentially work as much or as little as you want. Basically, folks around here seem to believe that once the USPTO gives you the nod, Fritz Garland Lanham himself visits you in spectral form to issue you your own private unicorn. It sounds way, way, way, too good to be true.

Application and prep for the patent bar exam would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500.00, and I'd have to devote several dozen hours to studying that, all other things being equal, I'd rather spend learning biochemistry. The investment of time and energy would be worth it, however, if it would afford me a reasonable chance of getting the following:

(1) Part-time work (averaging 15 hours a week or less) at a pay rate of $55/hr or more; or
(2) Extremely limited duration contracts (in the 3 week range) of more-or-less full-time work, a few times a year.

I should also add that, back in law school, I loved studying IP law. I didn't pursue it then because I didn't have the scientific chops for it. Now, apparently, I do. I am 99.99993% sure that I don't want to be a career patent attorney, but doing a little of it on the side sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

So what do you think, mefi IP law types? Is there really a patent law fairy?

This isn't the bar I'd choose to spend my summer with.

soonertbone — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:03:26 -0800

I'd like to find blogs or websites dealing with people's experiences studying for the bar exam. Know of any? I will begin studying for the NY bar exam in a couple months and will sit for it in July. I will be taking the bar/bri class to prepare.

I'm unfamiliar with what is involved in the summer of studying and would like to read a blog (or, in the alternative, would love recollections/tips from mefi members) that talks about how people studied for this beast of a test. Specifically wondering how people structured their day, which materials they used or focused on and which materials they skipped, and any methods for studying that people found particularly helpful.

Tips for NY specifically would be great, but bar/bri tips of any kind will be helpful. Thanks!

Any recent legal decisions I should know about?

rakish_yet_centered — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:08:50 -0800

A New York State bar exam question Having piddled around doing other things the last few years, I find myself studying for the bar with old law outlines.

Is there anything recent from either the Supreme Court or New York State Court of Appeals that I might be tested on? My books cover Kelo, so anything more recent than that.

Do I mention a non-serious employment incident on my law school character & fitness section?

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:45:33 -0800

Character & Fitness section on law school apps, what needs to be mentioned? I'm currently working on my first law school app. I got to the character & fitness section that they submit to bar examiners and am a bit unsure of what to do. They ask if you have ever been "disciplined by an employer." I'm not sure if they want info on any minor infractions, or just if you were stealing, harassing someone, etc.
A few years ago I got in trouble for being late repeatedly, in that my boss assumed it meant I was wanting to quit, and my manager told me I could basically beg my boss for my job or quit, so I quit. I had been late a lot because I kept sleeping through my alarms despite my best efforts to be on time, probably because I'd been sick on-and-off for a month (and was also going to school full-time). It was sort of a misunderstanding because my old manager didn't care what time I came in, and the new one was telling my boss every time I was "late" (without my knowledge). If I do need to put it, how much do I need to explain about this? I would just check "no" to the question, but I'm afraid if they contact my old boss, he'll say I was quasi-fired and it will appear that I'm lying. It was really no big deal, but now I don't want it to hurt me applying to law school, or when I take the bar one day.
Just as extra info-- I'm applying to law schools in multiple states, but the one I'm working on first is for a school in Ohio. So, I don't know if schools in other states word things the same on their apps or not.

What if Sinatra Really Digs Orville Redenbacher?

Dr. Zira — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:22:50 -0800

BarExamFilter: What are your favorite mnemonics and/or memory aids that helped you remember certain elements of a particular rule or concept? Examples: Stuff like in the BarBri lectures (like Paula Franzese's "Frank Sinatra Doesn't Prefer Orville Redenbacher" for Fee Simple Determinable/Possibility of Reverter) or the "MIMIC" rule for prior acts in Evidence. My creativity's zapped, so I'm desperate for some fresh ideas.

Bar Application: Disclosure of High School Incident?

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:22:43 -0800

I am applying to take a state bar exam. The application asks "Have you ever been reprimanded, sanctioned, disciplined or suspended or expelled from a college, university, or law school?" I was kicked out of a summer "pre-college" program at a major university while I was in high school. Does this need to be disclosed? I know I should err on the side of disclosure. Here's the issue: My law school application had a similar question, but it was worded in a way that would exclude the pre-college program. Would this discrepancy between the bar application and the law school application cause a problem? I'm asking here before checking with the officials at my law school, but I plan to do that soon as well.

New State, New Bar Exam. Wah!

batcrazy — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:18:14 -0800

Advice for a lawyer taking another state bar exam? Asking for a friend...

Friend went to top-tier law school and graduated in 2003. Took and passed NY bar, worked for big firm in NYC for two years. Friend and Fiance moved to DC in 2005, where Friend worked for different big firm in DC for two years, and waived into DC bar.

Now Friend is working for a firm in VA and has to take the VA bar. Friend is signed up to take the February Bar and will be working 8-5 at firm and taking BarBri classes from 6-10 M-F from January 2 - end of February.

Any words of advice for friend? Specifically:

1) Helpful hints/tips about Virginia's bar exam specifically (including online places to get outlines/flashcards/ mnemonics)

2) Helpful hints/tips about taking Feb. bar vs. July bar

3) Personal anecdotes of having to work FT and study for a bar

4) Personal anecdotes about taking a bar after practicing law for 4+ years (is it easier b/c you know more law or harder b/c you are no longer in 'student study' mode).

5) Advice on how to get through two months straight of 14 hour week days + studying/working on weekends + time for spouse/housework (etc)/dog/friends...

Thanks in advance!

Coughing up a Pass!

prettyboyfloyd — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:17:54 -0800

Can you take cough drops into the california bar exam? Maybe an obscure question. No food or drink, but medicines are allowed according to the bar examiners' regulations. Any MeFiters know if cough drops are okay?

Anyway, if you're taking it starting Tuesday - good luck!

Has the bar exam changed a lot in ten years?

Phred182 — Thu, 24 May 2007 16:01:44 -0800

How much has the body of material tested on the Multistate Bar Examination changed over the last ten years? Arguing with my clever friend, as ever. She thinks it's been stable, I think that Constitutional Law, at least, has changed a whole heck of a lot: takings, affirmative action, separation of powers, individual rights (half of all con law questions). Maybe not so much property, contracts, and torts.

We passed the bar and diverged--her into her tax, me into finance, and neither of us has really kept track. So we argue blindly, thoroughly entrenched, enjoying ourselves immensely. But now I wonder: has the law changed enough to be radically different on the MBE?

/N.B.: IANA Not a recent JD trying to use really really old books for bar prep. That would be sad.

Sweet Sounds for the Stressed and Cloistered

palmcorder_yajna — Sun, 18 Feb 2007 18:29:28 -0800

Music-for-studying-for-the-@#%#-bar-exam-filter: Please help me balm the pain of preparing for this miserable test by recommending excellent music that's either wholely instrumental or not in English. For the next week I will be doing nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, except studying for the Washington State Bar Exam. Music helps relieve the monotony, but English vocals are too distracting. I've dumped pretty much every track my husband and I own without same into a huge playlist, but I'd love to add to it. Any recommendations?

My tastes are pretty catholic, but to guide your recommendations, here are some random things I like:

* Rachind Taha
* Charlie Parker
* Warsaw Village Band
* The soundrack to Raumpatrouille (I like this to an insane degree, actually)
* Yma Sumac
* Serge Gainsbourg
* My Friend the Chocolate Cake
* Django Reinhardt
* Apocalyptica
* Dirty Three
* The kind of stuff they used to play on Kalvos and Damian's New Music Bazaar.

Here are some things I don't like or can't use right now:

* Joe Satriani
* Kid Koala (Actually I love Kid Koala, but alas, its choppiness tends to shock me out of what I'm doing)
* Sun Ra (Same deal as Kid Koala-- I love it, but it takes too much focus to listen to it right now.)
* Kenny G
* Any classical piece that sounds like it could be the score for an animated film about a small woodland animal who by turns frolicks, is frightened by storms, flees, and then is safely recovered by his adoring mum. (Yes, this makes me a bad person. I keep trying to change. It keeps failing to work.)

Mad bonus points for anything I can download from e-music. Slightly less-mad bonus points for stuff I can download from Itunes.

Thanks much!

The wrong bar

whatitis — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:25:51 -0800

Taking the Illinois bar... Is the full BarBri course worth it? Decision time.

I consider the whole bar prep industry a racket...but a necessary one. Therefore I was planning on shelling out the money for the BarBri books and studying on my own but skipping the extra money shelling required for the "live" classes. For the MultiState portion I was going to choose PMBR.

I'm a very diligent studier and feel this is the most effective use of my (limited) funds. Is it?

P.S. - If anyone wants to give me a job or even an interview, that'd be perfect as well... ^_^

Quiet, ye dogs! Looking for earplugs.

socratic — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:01:47 -0800

Can anybody recommend some good earplugs? I'm taking the bar exam in 20 days, and I'm looking for some good earplugs. I hate the moldable foam plugs, and I'm looking for something soft and comfortable that I'll forget about. Sony's soft earbud headphones (note, I'm looking for earplugs; these are just for comparison) generally do me right and seem to be about the right size for my ears.

I can Google for earplugs all day, but I'm looking for some personal recommendations, esp. if you've used the 'plugs for a major test like a bar exam.

Need Study Pointers and Moral Support for New York Bar Exam

adrober — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:34:36 -0800

I'm studying for the New York bar exam (law), using BarBri, and I was wondering if there's anyone out there who's passed the bar and can give me any pointers on scrambling to learn all this material? I feel like a candle burning at both ends and I need some moral support. Thanks!