Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with atheism

Help me find this George Carlin quote about prayer?

incandescentman — Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:10:20 -0800

Where can I find the George Carlin quote, "Before every football game, both teams pray they'll win. One team always loses." I'm trying to find a video clip of a quote from George Carlin.

"Before every football game, both teams pray they'll win. One team always loses."

Or something like that. I'm pretty sure George Carlin said it, and I feel like he maybe said it on Real Time with Bill Maher.

Does anyone have a source on this? I'm looking for a video clip, or at least the show title and air date.

Thanks!

Adam and who now?

looli — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:45:09 -0800

How do atheist or otherwise non-religious parents teach their kids about the Abrahamic mythology? I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. I'm raising my daughter without religion. She has occasionally been to church with my parents. When she was younger, if asked, she would say that she was a mix of Catholic and atheist, that she half believed in god and half didn't, but now she straight up doesn't believe.

That's all fine. I'm good, obviously, with her being an atheist. What I'm less happy about is that she has almost no knowledge of the standard bible stories that I think of as just being part of the culture. I made a joke recently about Noah and the ark and she had no idea what I was talking about. A couple nights ago she was talking about "that lump boys get in their throats when they're teenagers" and I told her it was called an adam's apple, "you know, like Adam and the apple" and she was totally mystified.

Even though I'm not interested in religious teaching, I do think my kid should be familiar with her culture's central mythology. I guess I thought those stories were common staples that she would just pick up somehow, but apparently that's not the case, since she's about to turn ten and has only just learned about Adam and Eve.

I have a friend who was raised by atheists that made her attend church every Sunday for years, specifically so that she would learn about the mythology and culture. When she was old enough to say she got it, she didn't have to go any more. I'm not willing to do this because I don't want all the other stuff that goes with it. Plus, there's no way I'm going to church. She doesn't go with my folks any more because she's not interested, and I'm certainly not going to make her.

Are there any resources that teach those old testament stories without the overlay of moralizing? I do get that moral lessons are part of the stories, it's the free-wheeling editorializing I can do without. She's not a kid who is going to sit down and read the bible, but it seems like children's bible story books are not at all what I'm looking for.

In other words, I guess I am looking for books and movies (and etc.) that tell the stories of the Abrahamic tradition the way books tell the stories of Greek and Roman mythologies. Or strategies to make up for that deficit.

What positive book about atheism to recommend to a Christian?

underwater — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:51:48 -0800

What one book should an atheist recommend to a fundamentalist that will open their mind to atheism but is not focused on the debate about whether god exists? I realize that this is an odd question since the atheism is fundamentally about the issue of not believing in a god or gods, but in any case...

I have recently met a very smart fundamentalist Christian who asked me my religious beliefs (atheist / secular humanist) and then asked me if I had read Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis. I have, and then asked her if she had ever read any books by an atheist about religion, which she hadn't but was open to do. She studies modern, mainstream psychology, so she's not anti-science. (She's a first-year in college, BTW). Her image of atheists based on past experience is the stereotype of confrontational, self-centered (i.e. not community or charity-focused), negative, and nihilistic.

I'd like to recommend a book that can open her mind to the idea that atheists and/or an atheist life can be moral, humanist, positive, meaningful, etc. but, since this may be the one book she ever reads dealing with atheism, I don't want it to be focused on arguments about whether god exists, since there is certainly next-to-zero chance she will ever change her tune on that. I also don't want a book that details the problems or evils caused by religion. But, I'd like something more focused on religion than, say, a beautiful secular description of the wonders of science and the universe.

I certainly plan to open her up to these ideas through my own example, but I do want a book do discuss with her.

I have already read this question and this one, but neither seemed quite on point. This question is probably closest, but I feel that there might be something out there better for my purposes.

Intro to Humanism, Winter 2012

nelljie — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:50:51 -0800

If you think human rationality, and efforts to ‘predict and control’ are, together, shaky ground for ethics, what’s left? Please forgive my naiveté here, the last time I thought about this with any sort of precision was too long ago. (I’ve forgotten the main arguments and their authors, and the terms I’m using are pretty basic, and I’m going to make some probably silly leaps unbecoming of a person my age.)

As a younger person, I had a lot of faith in the potential of the institutions of government, law, medicine, education, and psychology to improve the human condition. From what I can understand, many humanists/naturalists have settled on these as the tools and rationale for ethical action (re the big things), in a generally modernist program. (The proposed or implicit ethics seem to be normative, organized around a notion of universal rights, & informed by Western psychological conceptions around health and flourishing.)

Re just sort of living, there’s an emphasis on cultivating empathy, respecting life, do-unto-others, etc. Which is a bit perplexing, given that most atheists, I think, assume metaphysical determinism, if they don’t like randomness. (Sorry, yes I said I’d be crude, I know I'm collapsing a lot here.)

But none of those institutions can contain chaos and tragedy. I've lived long enough to see that people are irrational and self-interested and unlikely to change. Most organizations are inert (or corrupt). Expressions of vitality are fragile. Luck/happenstance matters more than anything, for individuals as much as policies, and those individuals or institutions able to overcome circumstance to embrace action are again a function of luck (of personality, situation, timing). We just suffer, and always will. Which is one thing, there are always little pleasures to soften things, worthy in themselves, but the science that humanists use to frame hope is always mitigated by politics, which is always mitigated by stupidity. Apart from that, there's simple error. Pretensions to morality/hope/action that don't account for all that are misguided.

Who in philosophy’s good, then, for that, from where I’m at? More clearly (I hope): if we're irrational, & constrained by the limitations alluded to above, and for practical purposes, unpredictable, in what do we ground ethics and sort of daily life, barring things supernatural?

Converting a 10 year old Christian to atheism through books.

facehugger — Mon, 30 Jul 2012 15:15:25 -0800

Converting a 10 year old Christian to atheism through books. My aunt's family is deeply religious to the point that my atheism seriously offends them. They also live in a place where English books are hard to come by for their young sons (my cousins), so they've relied on book donations from the rest of the family.

Which is why I think it'll be fun to try to convert their 10 year old son to atheism through books, or at least try to expose him to different perspectives on religion.

The 10 year old is a voracious reader. As long as the title of the book isn't explicitly anti-religious, or if it doesn't look like it's aimed for girls (don't ask) his parents won't care. He really likes books with adventure (e.g Tintin) and science, but he'll read anything.

So, Mefites, what are some atheistic-leaning children's books? Were there any books you read as a child that changed your perspectives on religion?

Some ideas:
* His Dark Materials
* Cosmos, by Carl Sagan

What's the deal with meditation?

Anonymous — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:28:25 -0800

How and why does meditation work? How does one do it properly (that is, in the way in which one may extract the most benefits)? I've had anger and impatience issues for some time, and meditation has come up time and again as a potential solution, or at least something that could help me. The problem is that I've never been able to understand what's supposed to happen, and whatever that is, I've never been able to make it happen.

I posted this question a couple of years ago, and while I've mellowed a little since then, I still have anger issues and still don't get meditation.

What's the attraction here? How does sitting in a room thinking about nothing help one? All the good things in my life have either come from thinking or dumb luck, and meditation doesn't seem to enhance either. What's going on here? Why is it good? How can I make it better?

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I don't see how doing nothing is supposed to help one. Every time I've tried meditation, I've gotten restless and would rather have been watching a video or jacking off or checking my email or whatever, and I haven't been able to see how putting my head into neutral gets me any forwarder.

I have a scientific mind; my approach to health is essentially "clinical trials with p < 0.05 or GTFO." I deny the existence of all gods, spirits, saints, and other metaphysical entities; so-called "answers" citing them are nonresponsive.

Bottom line: how and why does meditation work, and how does one get the most out of it without selling your integrity to some tin-pot guru or god?

How can an atheist/catholic marriage succeed?

SpicyMustard — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:27:56 -0800

I'm on the brink of proposing to my Catholic, Indian-American girlfriend. However, I come from a long line of athiests/humanists and I am starting to worry about how we will balance our backgrounds in raising our children. My girlfriend of 2.5 years is from a very religious family of Catholics from the south of India.

She is a wonderful woman, is dedicating her life to social justice, very tolerant, and we get along really well. From the beginning, she understood that I was atheist and that I would not be converting to Catholicism.

Her parents are devoted Catholics whose culture is very integrated with their religious beliefs. Traveling by car across the country for a cousin's baptism is not an uncommon occurrence.

We revealed our relationship late last summer and my gf has had some follow-up conversations with them. They were disappointed (particularly her choice of a non-Christian, non-catholic), but they did not blow up. They seem to be moving towards acceptance.

My parents are outspoken atheists/humanists with a strong distaste for the Catholic church as an institution along with its roles in imperialism, persecution, sexism, protecting criminality, etc. They do love my girlfriend and do not expect her to abandon her family's traditions.

However, I think I have been subconsciously avoiding the difficult topic of how we will raise our children. My parents have been asking more questions and I realized that we had somehow, not yet worked out these issues. Specifically:

-schooling--my parents (and I) are uncomfortable with a religious education (or indoctrination, depending on your view).
-how her parents will respond to their grandchildren not being raised in the same Catholic manner as their own children.

I am okay with the child being baptised, but i think confirmation should be their choice when he/she is old enough to think through it critically and make his/her own decision.

I guess I am also concerned that my girlfriend (whose values directly contradict those committed in the name of catholicism) does not seem more critical of the Catholic church.

Has anyone successfully navigated these issues or know a couple who has?

What other kinds of questions should I be asking?

Should we seek to hammer out a clear understanding on all of this before marriage?

Alternative to God?

triggerfinger — Sun, 06 May 2012 19:09:55 -0800

What if you don't believe in God anymore? What then? Most of my life I believed in God, which always brought me great comfort during difficult times. Many years ago, I really started to question my belief and have been at the point of pretty much non-belief for at least five years. Though I would probably label myself as more agnostic than atheist.

I'm going through some hard times recently and also went through a bad patch a year or two ago. Antidepressants help, but what has been hardest for me is not having that source of comfort and peace that I was able to rely upon when I was much younger. For those of you who have been or are in a similar situation, where or in what do you find comfort and hope? I would say the majority of my friends are religious or spiritual and their stock answer to people with difficulties is - "pray!" or "God will see you through this" or somesuch. While I deeply respect their belief, this is not the most helpful advice for me. I do like to keep lots of good quotes that inspire me which I read again and again; but it's not really the same as the more deep spiritual feeling that I can rely and trust totally upon something else. Like where I could tell myself to turn it over to God or let things go and he will guide me and/or keep me from harm. This is so comforting to me. Can this feeling ever be replicated? What can I do to help guide myself through difficult times? I've tried to "act as if" there is a God (since I am in the camp that thinks we can never really know) but it seems empty and fraudulent. I would love any advice or experiences you could share, thanks.

I confirm that this is a sticky situation!

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 19:05:54 -0800

What should I get my sister for her (Roman Catholic) confirmation? Wrinkle: I'm an atheist. The facts are these:

1. She's getting confirmed at the end of the month.
2. She is 21 years old.
3. We are very close.
4. I want to get her something special.
4a. I don't want to get her something super religious, because I'm an atheist, she knows it, and she knows that any deeply religious gift would be, in some sense, insincere.
4b. I also don't want to go with something 100% secular, because a "regular gift" (the type of thing I'd get her for her birthday) doesn't seen appropriate.
4c. Usually I give books as gifts, but this seems like it deserves something a little bigger.
5. My parents are getting her a dove necklace, so that's out.

I know that it's not much to go on, but I'm sort of stumped. Help me metafilter!

Explaining death to baby atheists

xo — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 08:50:00 -0800

Atheist families: how have you talked about death with your small children? My child is young, so I'm only just starting to hear questions like, "So, where's your grandma?" For now I've said, "She's not around anymore, but her name was _______."

I'm not sure if I should introduce a mystical idea (up in the stars, the energy of the universe, etc) and gently remove it later, or if I should just stick to the facts. If so, then which facts? I'm not sure how to explain discarding a no-longer-working human body.

For what it's worth, we haven't used any magical/mystical ideas in our household as yet: no Santa or fairies or leprechauns. My child is aware of monsters, ghosts and leprechauns as creatures that are book characters but not real. At this point, he doesn't even know that other people might believe in these things as real.

Help me find this guy!

Drexen — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:16:56 -0800

Help me identify a participant in a long-form debate on religion, who rebuffed a strict atheist. Okay, this is driving me crazy, and I figure maybe you guys can help.

Around the end of 2010 I got on a kick of watching long-form debates, especially about religion. I watched the Tony Blair vs Hitchens ones, the Intelligence Squared one with Dawkins and Archbishop Tutu, and as many others as I could find. All very interesting, but there's one in particular that I'm trying to re-find, and there's so many of these debates on Youtube and whatnot that it's proving difficult.

I'll say what details I can remember. Memory being what it is, some of these details might be wrong! It was either an Intelligence-Squared debate, or something with a similar format - organised by an academic institution, or maybe PBS, or... something like that. I believe the debate was in the region of an hour long. Unless I'm misremembering, this was on Google Video but not Youtube.

I can't remember exactly what the topic of the debate was, but I *believe* it wasn't so much on whether god exists as whether religion was beneficial or not (it wasn't "Is Religion a Force For Good", i.e. the Hitchens/Blair one, but it may have been similar). Whatever the forum, it wasn't as heavily publicised and televised as the Hitchens/Blair one.

I think it was 2v2, or maybe 3v3 - pretty certain it wasn't 1v1. On the 'atheist' side, there was at least one fairly major name in that movement - I believe it was Dawkins, but if not, it was someone similarly recognisable (Hitchens?).

The person I'm thinking of on the 'theist' side I remember as not being especially famous. He wasn't a clergyman or the like, I believe he was a scientist - of some field like biology, perhaps? - or maybe an academic philosopher. Basically, he seemed to be fairly prominet but in a comparatively niche field. He was caucasian (I believe), and maybe in his 30s or 40s. He had brownish hair, relatively short I think, and I remember him being quite softly spoken.

The reason I remember this debate and want to find it again was this guy's line of argument. Dawkins (or whoever it was - I'll use his name) came out with the typical rationalist/reductionist arguments against religion, implying they can only be used to deceive, and to enable oppression and violence, and to retard progress, and so forth.

Obscure Guy (let's call him that), countered with what I thought was a nicely balanced response. He wasn't coming across as being religious per se - certainly not in an established institution. He argued that regardless of whether or not you can reduce religion down to provable/disprovable arguments and whether it's been used as a tool of oppression in the part - even regardless of whether you feel its benefits outweigh its negatives - nevertheless, religion and spirituality have always been a major component of human life and thought and have been intimately wound in with human progress and . And beyond that, even if you feel the payoff is not worth the sacrifice, spirituality is *still* an indespensible part of how humans view and understand such a vast and sublime universe - even for an atheist, religion is in a sense an integral part of understanding things outside our usual sphere of understanding.

And I remember Dawkins (or whoever) possibly getting rather defensive and protesting that you can't wall off such experiences as being religious, possibly repeating the past sins of religious institutions despite Obscure Guy's protests that that wasn't his point... in general, I remember getting the impression that Obscure Guy was handling the debate on a more nuanced and sophisticated level than Dawkins (whereas previously, I think Hitchens(?) used the same argument much more successfully against Tony Blair).

So that's about all I've got. I'm interested by this guy's arguments because it didn't come across as apologist, but did come across as a subtler-than-usual counterpoint to Dawkins's style of hard, combative rationalism. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

How prevalent was atheism in ancient civilizations?

Lownotes — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:49:42 -0800

How prevalent was atheism in ancient civilizations? For instance, do we know if most ancient Greeks truly believed in their mythology as fact, or Egyptians, or Romans? Was there a large contingent of people in the ancient world who said, "Um, that's make believe."? If so, how were they treated? The image I have, and maybe many others too, is of the Ancient Greek and Egyptians as people who all believed in their gods and who all worshiped and feared them.

The way things are going, they're gonna ...

holdkris99 — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 21:06:24 -0800

Conversations with my Father-in-law have lead him to lose his faith in God. My mother-in-law is not coping well with this and blames me. What do I do? My father-in-law and I have been having conversations about God, faith, science, evolution etc for about three years now. Basically it started out as him trying to "save my soul" but have had the opposite effect. He now no longer believes and, as a 60 year old man who always considered himself a strong Christian, this has really shaken him to the core. It was never my intention to convince him he was wrong, but we had an agreement that whenever we have these kind of philosophical talks that we would both be honest in our feelings and beliefs, so when he asked me a question, I answered it honestly.

You can no doubt imagine the avenues these conversations went down: the inerrancy of the Bible, evolution vs creationism, the role of Christianity in society, etc. Basically we would have talks about these different subjects and he would ask my opinions and I would give my opinions and point him to reading materials that I based my opinions on. He would comeback with findings that he would get from Young Earth Creationist sites and I would counter and so on.

After a while he became bothered by things that he thought were ironclad, undisputable facts and really began to question himself and his God and recently he decided that what he previously believed could not be true. He has been severely depressed and began feeling that he has wasted good chunks of his life with religion. The thing is, he was a great Christian who let his actions speak louder than words. He is a good man and I admire and love him dearly. In the last week or so he has been coming around to the fact that his Christian upbringing and morals have served him well and has said that coming to this realization will make his last years more enjoyable and more fulfilling.

My mother-in-law is a different story. She completely blames me for his recent depression and for his changing outlook. Again, she is a great Christian woman and we have never had any real issues. She never minded the long talks my father-in-law had because she thought they would lead myself and my wife "back into the fold." She no longer allows my wife and I over to the house and does not want her husband talking to me anymore. My wife and I have talked and have kind of taken the position that we will just not attempt much contact and wait for them to contact us, but that of course it is hard because we both love and care for them and enjoy being with them. It made for a very awkward Christmas! I guess my question is what is my responsibility here? Is there anything I could or should try to do to help diffuse the situation other than let time work its magic?

I will be happy to answer any questions.

How does one apostatise from the Church of England, and what are the (practical) consequences?

fakelvis — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 04:30:44 -0800

IrreligionFilter: When I was around 12 I was baptised and confirmed into the Church of England. I no longer consider myself as theist. What are my options for formally renouncing my religious past (apostatising)? Between the ages of eleven and twelve I was philosophically 'lost'. A big fan of science (and physics, particularly) caused my still-developing brain to be overrun with grand ideas and the wonders of the universe.

However the sheer scale of the universe and my relative insignificance had me clutching for explanations and meaning. With no pushing from my parents or teachers (they were all liberal and wanted me to come to my own conclusions, regardless of what they were) I 'found' religion in the form of the Church of England.

Around a year later I was baptised and confirmed by the man who would later go on to become the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Since then I've slowly (but surely) been losing my religion and finding greater and greater comfort and understanding in certain Western philosophies and a continued love for the natural sciences.

While I cannot currently determine my exact nontheist stance (it's one of either Apatheism, Agnostic Atheism, (Secular) Humanism, or Post-theism), I am definitely no longer a theist and as such am considering apostasy.

How does one apostatise from the Church of England, and what are the (practical) consequences?

Can an atheist join the Freemasons?

Hoopo — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:25:33 -0800

Can an atheist join the Freemasons? A number of years ago now my father joined the Freemasons. Since then he has been very interested in having me join as well, and has done a decent job of selling it to me. The only part that's been holding me back has been that joining apparently requires you to pledge that you believe in some kind of higher power. I'm an atheist and not really comfortable with the idea of faking it. How central is this to Freemasonry? What is meant by 'higher power'? Is this something that can be addressed by a wishy-washy "I do not believe humanity is the most powerful force in the universe"?

How can I forget / remove values that were taught to me when I grew?

bbxx — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:08:13 -0800

My parents are conservative Christians and I were brought up with Christian values. As I grew older, I began to question my faith and after years of searching, I finally discovered that Christianity; like other religions are based on ideas and concepts that are mostly outdated. I am an atheist now and I am happy with that. But the thing is... I have an animosity towards Christianity; I feel that years of my life wasted in believing lies... years that I can not ever claim back. And worse... some of the values taught to me seem to stick like chewed up gum sticking on shoe. I don't know how to get rid of these Christian values I want out. The concept of virginity and pureness for example. Christianity forbids premarital sex and label a woman impure / sinner if she had sex outside marriage. This concept is of course silly, but it seems that there is a hardwired connection in my brain that when I hear this girl had sex with that person the next thing that come up in my mind is that this girl is a bad person / sinner / etc. Things like this have ruined my relationships in the past. There are other stupid Christian values that I seem can not get rid of. At times I feel frustrated, why does my brain think and feel like this... while I want it to think and feel differently. I don't know what to do... I feel like crying sometimes...

Is there anyone with the same problem as mine? Any help in getting this brainwashing out of my head?

Now, I don't blame my parents for teaching the things they taught me. I know that they were teaching me values that they thought were right. And I apologize if my post offend some people, but I need to illustrate my feelings.

lying is a sin, but it'll probably make them happy

raztaj — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:26:10 -0800

My father unexpectedly passed away last weekend from a heart attack. I am not religious. Part of my family, and most of our community of friends & extended family, are. Help me navigate the religious talk without either going on the defensive, or being complacent. Our family was raised Muslim. My dad born and raised, my mom converting to Islam from Catholicism. My dad was never super religious, though he did identify as Muslim. He was much more spiritual than dogmatic, and believed in god (not necessarily a specifically Muslim version of god, but more of a general "higher power.") My brother is a practicing Muslim, but not conservatively so. My two sisters are sort of general deists. I am an atheist.

My dad was buried according to Islamic rituals, which i have absolutely no problem with, and actually have quite a bit of respect for - especially the simple, prompt burial.

But I'm getting tons of religion and god-talk, after-life talk. So far I've just taken it and silently nodded, as I realize comments are made in good-faith and intent, and this is not the appropriate time for me to present my counter thoughts (in general, I do not hide my lack of faith, but am not at all "in your face" about it. if it comes up in conversation or if someone asks however, I refuse to lie)

My super conservative cousins have been extremely heavy on the religious and prayer talk. Some of my male, first cousins are the type to not even shake hands with me. One of my female cousins wears niqab and never travels without a male relative. For perspective, my dad always complimented my independent travels. I wore a knee-length skirt to his burial. My dad was the type who would have said to me, "what a lovely skirt!" rather than any kind of condemnation about inappropriate attire. I had plenty of theological conversations with him, and though we may not have shared the same perspective on cosmological issues, we always disagreed respectfully - he knew my real beliefs, and loved me all the while (and I, him).

I'm having trouble navigating the waters of how to handle obligations and respect with things though. Honoring my father, honoring my own beliefs, and going along with the cultural respectful things to do. In a little more than a month, there'll be a reading of Quran. There'll be prayers (not sure I even remember how to pray "Muslim-style," though I can fake it if I try). There'll be lots more meetings with super conservative relatives. I'd rather not participate in any of it, but they'll also mean a lot to my brother, and I don't want him to take on all of these tasks by himself.

Is there any way to be both respectful to others, and true to yourself in these kinds of situations?

Atheist book with Alex Grey cover

levijk — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:58:57 -0800

Looking for a paperback with an Alex Grey painting on the cover. Subject is autobiographical, beginning with the author's experience of witnessing his grandfather's senility leading him to conclude that there is no soul. I read this in '06 or '07. The painting is of a skeleton in a seated/lying position on the ground (no human aura in this painting). 90% sure it's Alex Grey. I want to say the author's name is Irish--sounds like McGrath or McGraw?

I believe the publisher is a lesser well-known company.

One Book on Atheism I Should Read (read details!)

snap_dragon — Sun, 03 Jul 2011 12:32:41 -0800

I am looking for one single book, perhaps a college-level read (not much higher), that explains the case for atheism. I'm not looking for any 'new atheist books', though I have enjoyed them -- especially Harris. I have read Bertrand Russell as well. I have a few atheist friends but do not want to talk to them about this as I am a Christian and don't want to give them the impression that I want to change them or judge them. I just want more exposure to it in a sincere and kind fashion without short bumper sticker like explanations. (BTW, I don't look at my friends as "Hey, here come my 'atheist' friends! But mainly here comes "Bob" and "Joe". I just don't think it is right to bug them about their positions or lack thereof. <--Not sure how to state that.) Thanks in advance for your book recommendation.

Dealing with death...as an atheist.

Anonymous — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:25:25 -0800

How can I help my wife deal with the death of a loved one? I am an atheist and I find it hard. My wife's uncle just passed away after battling cancer for a good many years. He was in his early 50's and never really had a fulfilling life - divorced from an abusive wife, couldn't have children and suffered many setbacks. My wife wasnt too close to him, but he was a wonderful man and she's taking it very badly. Mostly, she blames herself for not visiting him enough and taking care of him during his last few months. She feels she didn't appreciate him whilst he was around.

My wife always has had a tendency to get pessimistic and depressed. This has got her into a situation where she sees no point in life and feels angry towards God.

I am an atheist. I find it hard to console her by saying the usual "God will take care of things" or "God has a plan" or whatever. And I don't think I shd urge her to think rationally now..she's not that in that state of mind..if that makes sense.

How can I help her? I feel handicapped. I'm wondering if I should step back and let her go through the motions and let her heal on her own. But I'm also fearful that if I'm not there by her side, she'll just spiral deeper into depression.

Being an atheist, I feel a little ill-equipped in this situation. How can I help my wife? I'd appreciate your advice. Thanks.

I want to convert my family

vaguelyweird — Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:09:34 -0800

As a converted atheist raised in a converted neo-calvinist family. I am regularly flooded with books, newsletters, and other reading material (read emails that are 90% quotes) supporting christianity. I'd like to return the favor (: I'm looking for book recommendations, similar to previous but intended for christians.

Specifically:
-- Not condescending/"angry" ala Dawkins
-- Preferably eloquent yet accessible, possibly in a narrative style -- they love R.C. Sproul, C.S. Lewis
-- Not comprehensive, but with resources for more info
-- Written with more than a superficial understanding of christian theology, ideally neo-calvinist: TULIP, American Westminster Confession of Faith
-- Addresses common christian phenomena and explains them scientifically with examples
(faith, prayer, confirmation bias, real/perceived psychological changes, placebo effect, etc)
-- Discusses the historical background of the Bible/Christianity
(political background of various RC councils/rulings, dates/sources of texts, fluctuations in "commonly accepted" dogma tied to corresponding socio-political movements)

Background:
They are very informed in their beliefs/theology but from mostly a christian perspective.
They do take some logic out from the toy-box, but not all the pieces.
There's quite a bit of diversity: two PhDs (micro-bio & metallurgy), missionary, teacher/writer.

Thanks!

I Don't Believe in God Anymore

wv kay in ga — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:58:59 -0800

I have just recently realized I don't believe in god. It's difficult because my father was a Presbyterian minister. I was required to sing in the choir, teach sunday school, teach bible school, show up to church every time the doors opened. It was required. I was never asked if this what I wanted to do. I'm resentful because really, it was his job, not mine. But I did what he asked. I loved him, but I think he was misguided in using his children this way. He has since died. Now, I find myself not believing in god. I can't believe in a god that just picks and chooses what prayers to answer. Among other things. So how can I be a good atheist? Where do I start?

interfaith for the faithful and faithless

raztaj — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:52:06 -0800

Are there any organizations, non-profits, etc. that support or encourage building relationships and positive dialogue between atheists/agnostics and various religious groups? Like interfaith organizations, but including the faithless.

Atheist ISO non-religious Al-Anon-style support

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:05:56 -0800

I am very deeply in love with and married to a man who has substance abuse problems - particularly alchohol and cigarettes. I am not interested in leaving him. My powerlessness to help him causes me pain, and my misguided attempts to "fix" him are painful for him. Watching him destroy himself is destroying me, and is making me less loving a partner than he deserves. I've looked into Al-anon but, being passionately atheist and unable to reconcile myself with its higher power BS, I have not been to any meetings. Please help me find alternatives. We both have depression. Mine seems to be kicking in at the moment, and I am feeling overwhelmed and worthless. I worry that I am being emotionally abusive to my husband (I never actually SAY "if you loved me you would quit" but I know my actions and affect communicate it loud and clear). I will tear myself apart with worry and feeling betrayed if status quo persists.

The website that serves as aggregator of Al-Anon meetings in my neck of the woods (Chicago) has this super-fucking-god-heavy version of the 12-step credo:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

I don't give a good goddamn about spiritual awakenings. I don't believe in a god or a higher power and can't help but feel scorn on some deep and private level for those who do (this is NOT something I'm proud of or think is admirable, but it IS a hindrance to finding meaning in a setting where the people I'm supposed to feel connected to are openly religious). I can't afford personal therapy right now. Are there other options for scientific-minded people who need support to help teach them how to live with loved ones who have chemical dependencies that affect their lives?

(marionette.chausette@gmail.com if you prefer.)