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Letting go of God: Help me deal with my atheism and the five stages of grief. I'm in the fourth stage now.

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:57:30 -0800

Please give advice on how to accept my atheism, let go of God and the need for one, how to get over the fourth stage of grief/letting go (depression), and how to find my passion for life again! Hello, hivemind.

I'm from a totally Bible-banging family (Creationists, End Timers, warped-Republicans, sexist, homophobic and a little racist). I haven't been a Christian for going on six years now, ever since I read the Bible all the way through and decided it was a total piece of junk filled with violence and hatred toward other faiths, women, etc. I know I don't believe in the Christian God, or, it seems, any religion or philosophy akin to it (no, not even Buddhism), as I have read many religious texts, apologetics and more besides and just don't feel there's any evidence for any of it. Simply put, I appear to be an atheist...at least as far as labels go.

The unfortunate thing is that I'm not handling this too well, and it has recently occurred to me that I have been going through what can best be identified as the five stages of grief, which just annoys me to no end! (I'd just like to get on with my life!) The whole not believing in God/gods thing has really been like a death in the family, so to speak...it's frustrating and painful. I'm specifically not having what I would consider healthy reactions to my lack of faith, which is a major reason that I've chosen to post this, rather than just rely on the great advice that I could find in similar questions from the past.

Maybe I should first talk about the five stages.

For one year, I was in denial. Even though I didn't believe in God, I continued to say that I did and tried to push through. I came up with lots of excuses as to why my doubts were happening. I read a lot of Christian apologetics that I didn't agree with in that time, in an attempt to act like things were okay with me and the Big Aggressive Creator in the Sky. I even avoided competing ideas. I prayed lots. I lived as closely to the Bible as I could, without totally ripping myself of my own thoughts regarding ethics and morality.

That didn't work, and I ended up getting angry. I was angry at the concept of God, angry that I couldn't seem to believe in it and angry that I had believed in what I felt was myth. I was angry at my family for bringing me up in extremism, as well as at all the borderline-abusive things they did in God's name, all the things they kept me from, because they were "of the devil". I was angry that I couldn't have lived "normally, like most people", in either moderate faith or no faith. In a weird sort of way, I was even angry that I was having to think about any of it. I couldn't decide whether I wanted to go back to the blind faith I'd had or bypass all of it, but I was angry that the issue had cropped up. I read everything I could get my hands on at this time, be it scientific or religious. I feel like I read more during this time than any other time of my life. I wanted to learn, so I could actually form my own opinions.

Another six months to a year passed, and bargaining began. I tried to live some form of very mild Christianity to agnosticism (Jesus was a good man; the Bible's a good "moral" text), thinking, "If I just do this, it will be the best of both worlds. I won't have any more problems. Things can work out this way." The idea was that I could still keep up with a religious community, be everyone's friend, etc. The reality, however, was that I began to identify less and less with Christians/Christianity/more religious people on the whole, with only a few exceptions, and that more of my friends slowly but surely ended up being agnostic, all the way to militant atheists. Not trying to step on any Mefi toes, but to be honest, the agnostics/atheists in my life were the only ones who didn't seem to be insecure, lying jerks most of the time, so it seems almost inevitable that things turned out the way they did. (Big disclaimer!!: I know this does not represent all Christians, just my experiences with some of them. I still even have some Christian friends, but not many.) I didn't go searching for my "heathen" friends, but we found each other. We gravitated toward one another, as our core philosophies were now similar. I also found/find myself annoyed by most religious people these days, but I never say/do anything regarding that. I try to accept where possible and be silent, when I feel myself unable. I married a mild-mannered, sugar-sweet atheist guy. My watered-down Christianity turned to full-blown agnosticism around the time I met him, as a result of all these experiences and changes.

I was happy with my agnosticism for a year, to year and a half, but recently I've noticed, as far as labels go, I am more of an atheist. To this very moment, though, I've not said aloud to anyone, not even my husband, that I actually consider myself an atheist. I don't know why the label means as much as it does, other than I know that if religious people dislike me now as an unbeliever, many will hate me as an atheist, even if that's what I most closely identify with... I guess I can't help but not want people to not hate me, even if they're extremist whack jobs. The label means a lot to me, too, though, because I'm really tired of lying about how I feel and think.

This seems to have put me in the fourth stage of grief, depression. I feel sad that I can't buy into the comforting stories I once did, sad that I can't agree with my family as far as faith goes, sad that I'm not accepted by tons of religious people (including family) when they find out I'm an unbeliever (even when I am accepting toward them), sad that I no longer believe in life after death or guiding forces in the universe. I think we are here, we die, and that's it, and that notion depresses me. I don't think there's any evidence to the contrary, however, so I'm bound to it...whether I like it or not. I know we can't know what happens "on the other side", but I highly doubt it's anything spectacular. I highly doubt it's anything at all.

I want to get to the fifth stage of grief, where I accept myself and the death of my religion and faith, but it just seems so impossible at this stage. As said, some of my reactions to my own atheism aren't healthy. For instance, I have lost my passion for a lot of life, which is bad for me in more ways than one, considering I am a professional artist and writer and need to feel and create accordingly. I miss my sense of wonder. I feel wonder at the universe, but it's a head-wonder, not a heart-wonder, like I felt with spirituality. I'll agree with Carl Sagan and my fellow atheists and agnostics that it's amazing to think about how statistically unlikely it is that I'm here, that the planet works the way it does, etc. I'll agree that, because of all these things and my finite time here on earth, I should value every second I have and live it to the fullest, without apology...

But I can't seem to...

I am amazed by the world, but that doesn't drive me. In fact, it's all the opposite. It makes me feel like there's no point. Amazement is just part of it, but it doesn't particularly mean much. I realize that, without "something behind everything", it doesn't matter one iota (speaking from a selfish perspective here) whether I build great things or just sit on my couch and rot, whether I live to be 100 or die tomorrow. It will matter to some, but not to many, and not for long. It's like, what am I trying to prove to anyone or to myself now? How on earth does any of it matter if it's just this tiny bit of time I have? I'd like to help people, and while I realize that while I do touch some people's lives, and that does make me happy, the odds are against my helping a significant number of people in my lifetime, try as I might, so it all feels a little hopeless and pointless still. Death depresses me immensely, and rather than living my life more fully as a result, I just have ended up somewhat stagnant...blahed and mehed out.

Please note that I'm actually not depressed in other areas of my life, just this one. But it does...influence...the other areas, from a foundational perspective, so it definitely needs to be seen to. I think it's affecting more, too, as time goes by. I appreciate the concept of life, but I don't really feel compelled to do much with it now, without the notion of some sort of equilibrium in the universe (carried out by a creator, karma, whatever). I mean, I do what I need to and try my best, but I'm not striving toward things like I once was. Without a reason behind things, so much stuff in the world seems overwhelmingly random and unfair and out of my control. (I think this is one of the reasons there are so many moderate Christians, even. People keep some idea of God, just so they can pray about the things they can't control, to comfort themselves.) I can't even pray about any of it, though, and I think the concept of sending good thoughts toward it all is just as silly. I've tried giving myself rituals, but it just doesn't work. I always feel silly.

So, hivemind, I guess what I want to know, after all my heathen rambling, is how do I peacefully come to accept my lack of faith and not having a god in the world? How do I regain passion for life, despite feeling everything is off balance without a godly figure? I've tried listening and reading some things, like Julia Sweeney's personal story, and while helpful and something I could identify well with, it's never gotten me over the hump. I'd appreciate personal advice, recommendations of what to read/listen to/do...anything, really.

Throw-away email: atheistic.blues@gmail.com

Thanks, guys and gals.

To discover the meaning of life...consult Merriam-Webster.

Christ, what an asshole — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:51:59 -0800

As an atheist, what sort of activities or practices (that don't involve New Age wankery) can I get into to increase my spiritual welfare?

Is my irritation over receiving tacky religious gifts unfounded?

JFitzpatrick — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:40:43 -0800

Is my irritation over receiving tacky religious gifts unfounded? The situation: For Christmas this year, my sister-in-law and her husband gave my family religious gifts.

My feeling on the matter: It wasn't something innocuous like a great aunt giving a niece a childrens' bible because it seemed like a nice gift... the gifts were pretty much given as a form of propaganda. They know that I'm an atheist and that my wife has fallen so far off the southern Christian Fundamentalist wagon that she grew up on that she is for all intents and purposes agnostic now. Their gifts this year were books about finding Christ, how Christ was the one true way and the source of all moral authority and a bunch of other unsolicited nonsense. The real thorn was giving unsolicited books about religion to my daughter. I go out of my way to almost bite my tongue clean off when I hear them filling their childrens heads with the most absurd fundamentalist nonsense you've ever heard in your life because it isn't my place to intervene in how they raise their children. I would never, ever, -ever-, give their children unsolicited books about religion or sex or other topics that are the province of a parent to discuss with their child (even whilst cringing at the size of the therapy bills the poor kids will pay later in life to fix what has been done!)

Ultimately I'm offended not because I even cared that I received gifts from them... I've never been that into getting gifts whether for a holiday or my birthday. I'm offended because while I was picking out thoughtful gifts for them that I thought would be useful and beautiful (and entirely without any sort of agenda other than hoping they found them as useful and lovely as I thought they were), they were apparently putting together Missionary-in-a-Box(tm) for me.

I'm not about to pick up the phone and give them a stern talking to other anything... I just can't get over how incredibly tacky the gifts were.

Am I being irrational? Should I just accept that my in-laws are poster children for the Pat Roberston Glee Club and shrug it off?

Trying to think out the ethics involved here ...

WCityMike — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:34:07 -0800

I have an ethical or logical quandary that I'm trying to puzzle out. I became an Eagle Scout in 1993. Recently, my membership in the National Eagle Scout Association came up for renewal; I declined to renew my membership due to the Scouts' stance on homosexuality, agnostics, and atheists. I feel that their positions are unethical in that they advocate discrimination and intrude into areas of people's private lives which have no relevance to Scouting.

However, unlike some Eagle Scouts, I declined to send in my Eagle Scout Award to national headquarters as a protest. I declined to do so because I feel that I earned that award by virtue of a lot of hard work over the course of my childhood and adolescence, and I won't deny myself an award I rightfully earned. (Furthermore, I did this work over years of service in which Scouting as a whole was nowhere near as neoconservative as they are nowadays.)

At the risk of sounding like a nerd, for shorthand, let's say that my feelings about Scouts are "principle x". And the caveat — that I won't deny myself the benefits of being an Eagle Scout — is "caveat y".

Now, I'm wondering whether or not to take "action z". Do you know how your college's alumni department got in touch with you a few years after you graduated, offering you the chance to list yourself in, and buy, a national directory of alumni, ostensibly one you could use to get back in touch with people, and for business networking purposes?

Scouting is now doing that with Eagle Scouts, and given the number of Eagle Scouts alive, that's going to be one huge directory — presumably a very useful one, given the number of Eagle Scouts alive.

I am trying to decide whether listing myself in the directory, and ordering a copy, is ethically consistent. On one hand, it breaks x because I'm giving money to them by virtue of purchasing the directory. I'm uneased by that.

On the other hand, the use of this directory for general networking could be invaluable, and thus, that caveat y comes into effect: this directory would definitely be a very useful tool for networking, and thus could easily be considered a benefit of having reached Eagle.

Given principle x, and given caveat y to principle x, is action z morally consistent with x and y? Or is it more moral to not participate in the directory?

(I know that speaking solely in a practical sense, whether or not NESA gets a few bucks from me as a trickledown makes little practical difference to them. I'm trying to consider the underlying principles involved, though.)

If you feel differently than I do about either Scouting, their positions, or how I reacted to those positions, I respect your right to feel differently, but that's not my question, and I prefer this thread not run aground on that.

Twelve-step programs and non-theism

granted — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 14:52:49 -0800

Non-theist twelve-steppers - how do you reconcile the two philosophies? I've been thinking for years about attending some twelve-step meetings - Al-Anon and CoDA specifically - but as an agnostic, I'm skeptical (heh) about the Higher Power part. I know there are many atheists and agnostics who have been able to interpret this aspect of the process so that it jives with their non-belief, and I'm wondering if there are any of you here who could share how you've done it (in any 12-step program, not just the two I've named above.).

(I'm really not interested in hearing about how cultish and creepy you think these groups are. I respect the opinion, but that's not what I'm looking for here.)

In search of good religious discussion

bluejayk — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:43:37 -0800

Where can I find serious religious debate/discussion? I'm looking for a place to read and maybe discuss religious views (primarily Christian-based) that don't constantly delve into ranting and/or idiocy. I was wondering how fundamentalists figure Noah got elephants, pandas, kangaroos, llamas and polar bears on the arc the other day. And I wanted to read some thoughtful religious discussion, but I'm not sure where to go.

Apart from the Noah bit, I'm hoping for something without ideological ground rules, but serious, pointed debate with intellectual rigor. Ideally, a place where Christians (liberal and conservative) and agnostics/atheists have actual discussion without anger or bitterness. I may be asking for something that doesn't exist, but I hope not.

Most everything I've found falls into one of categories: 'If you don't accept this you're hellbound, so shape up and start believing' or 'It's all just fairy-tale bullshit, stop talking nonsense' or 'These cultural heuristics need to be seen in the proper meta-historical narrative of the theistic experience to blah, blah, blah...'.

So where should I go? I need some religious debate while wasting time on the internet.

THE UNIVERSE etc.

iced_borsch — Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:12:13 -0800

Do we live in a natural world or a supernatural world? These days, I lean towards the former, but I could be convinced otherwise with a solid pummeling of persuasive arguments, essays, rants, websites, diatribes, etc.

Where do you stand in the debate? Are you a theist? An atheist? An agnostic? Why or why not? Does the possibility of a godless universe depress you or excite you?

Similarly, is the universe a cold, lonely place with only rare occurences of life, or is it teeming with life? Why or why not?