Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with agnostic

How to reveal my (lack of) faith to my fundamentalist Christian Parents?

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:00:28 -0800

I have been struggling for several years how to reconcile Christianity, especially the sect in which I was raised, with the analytic portion of my mind. I realize that I can't. Now the question is, how to broach the subject with my fundamentalist parents, who I am dependent on? Here is some background information:

I am a college student who attends a Christian University away from my hometown. I was raised in a very conservative home and have attended the "Church of Christ" my entire life. The Church of Christ is a denomination which claims to be the true New Testament church set up by the disciples of Jesus. The Church believes in the bible as God's inerrant revelation to man and as the sole guide to everlasting life. Consequentially, the Bible is taken literally which results in poor prospects for homosexuals, women (submission), and sexuality, in general. My family is very devout and attends church 3 times a week (2x Sunday and Wednesday). My father is an elder at the Church and my mother is very involved.

I have always felt trapped and restricted within the church and the university has only exacerbated the issue (daily chapel, required bible class, curfew, no entry into the opposite sex’s living quarters). I feel like being in the environment of this Church has held me back intellectually. Do not question the Bible, accept it. The act of believing things without evidence, of not actively searching out and understanding why things happen, permeated into my thinking about other subjects.

My parents are paying my tuition at the university, although I did not choose it. I feel indebted to my parents, as I probably should and feel like renouncing their belief system will add up to some sort of treachery.

My parents will be crushed when I tell them of my disbelief. I don’t know if I can handle causing so much pain to them, as well as to my grandparents. They will end up questioning how they raised me and may never be fine with it. They will not understand how I could not believe. My relationship with my father is already strained and may not survive this episode. My admission may also cause my father to lose his position in the eldership. One of the qualifications for being an elder, as taken from Titus 1:6, is having “children who believe”.

How do I tell my parents that I am (at best) agnostic?
Has anyone lived through a similar situation/ how did it go?
Should I tell them while I am still dependent on them financially?

I appreciate any perspective you all can give me. Throwaway email: leavingfundamentalism@gmail.com

Advice for a non-believer interested in dating a woman with a solid christian background?

Anonymous — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:00:52 -0800

I am quite taken by a very quality woman - one catch.. she has a degree in theology and is saving herself for marrage. It's early to tell, but let's say she's the one for me.. is there even hope? Advice from people in inter-faith relationships? I am in my late 20s, and have a dating past of several long-term and rewarding relationships. I've never been very good at or much enjoyed casual/uncommitted dating. It's also not what I'm looking for anymore.

I am an agnostic I suppose, solid values but no faith in a greater power.

I have been on 3 dates with a very quality woman.. beautiful, charming, and quite a catch indeed. So far we have had a really good time together and I am remarkably taken by her smile.

She has a very christian background, and that still plays out in components of her life. She was thoughful enough to bring up early in our dating that she's a virgin and is saving herself for marrage.
It isn't because of firm religous beliefs or because the bible says so, more because of her chaste history, and wanting to have that for her husband since she still can offer that.

I can see marrage in my future, and very well could be to a quality woman like her. I would also not want to make such a decision lightly and would want to spend several years really getting to know my partner and what our life would be like together. Part of this would usually include a healthy sex life.

1) It's hard to love someone and not be able to satisfy them the way you want to.
2) I would usually prefer that someone has had a chance to learn and explore and have a mature sexuality. Virginity is a may sound fun, but i'd prefer someone who's excited to share their kinks rather then find out they have none

Also, if I WERE to marry this woman, she is christian and that is a big basis of how she makes decisions and handles and appreciates life. Does anybody have insight over whether this is a major barrier in a relationship? In starting a family?

Above us, only sky...

Metroid Baby — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:43:34 -0800

Someone close to me recently passed away. For the most part I'm okay, but what stops me in my tracks is the idea that there may not be an afterlife. How do I come to terms with this? My dad died last month after a year-long battle with cancer. I was expecting him to stick around for a little while longer, but all of us knew that it was inevitable, and we were as prepared as anyone could be. Dad was happy, went peacefully, and even considered death to be something of an adventure.

Generally speaking, I'm doing okay. I miss him terribly, but I'm grateful to have had him be a part of my life. I'm grateful for all the people who have shared memories of Dad and let us know how much they appreciated him. I'm a little more teary-eyed these days, but on the whole I'm functional and my grief seems to be pretty manageable.

There's just one thing.

A few days after the funeral, I was home alone and realized: What if there's no afterlife? It hit me like a ton of bricks, and it still keeps me up at night sometimes. I had been okay with the idea of my father being deceased, but the idea of my father being completely nonexistent terrifies me. Until recently, it didn't occur to me that those two things might be one and the same.

I consider myself agnostic; reason leads me to believe that there is no higher power, but I'm not always a person of reason. Dad was a pretty spiritual guy, particularly in the last year, and although he didn’t talk about heaven, and admitted he didn't know what happens to us after we die, he did believe that something of us stuck around, continued on, after the end of physical life.

I always figured that if there was an "other side," and if it were possible for the dead to reach back and contact us from that other side, that Dad would certainly do it. I desperately wanted him to be right. As silly as it might sound, on some level I was expecting some sort of Obi-Wan Kenobi apparition, for Dad to appear and tell me that the Force was with me all along.

But with each passing day I'm less and less sure that's possible.

I've wrestled with the thought of death being the end before, but always in the context of my own mortality. These days, I'm not particularly concerned with what will happen to me, just the idea that Dad is totally and completely gone forever. I've looked at previous AskMes about grief, the afterlife, and mortality, but I haven't found anything that really addresses this particular issue.

I can't be the only person to wrestle with this – I'm guessing this issue is what first led people to believe in an afterlife. But I'm not sure how to wrap my head around it. I'm wondering if anyone might have any advice, or can point me toward something to read that might help me sort out my thoughts, or if this is just something that I'll figure out with time.

I appreciate your help and apologize if this question meanders a bit or sounds ridiculous. Thanks as always.

Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas Tree

netbros — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:56:43 -0800

Do atheists and agnostics put up Christmas trees? I was raised in the Christian faith, but consider myself agnostic now. It was tradition in my family as a youngster to have a Christmas tree. As an adult, I have usually done this, in fact, I just put one up in my home today. I'm sitting here wondering... why?

Help me become the best atheist chaplain I can be.

internet!Hannah — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:27:08 -0800

Help me become the best atheist chaplain I can be. I'm in the ROTC at my University, and as a cadet master sergeant this year, I've somewhat taken it upon myself to assume the unofficial role of "atheist chaplain" for the Corps. There's no official position for this, though I'm told there was once an actual Atheist Chaplain some years ago (however, it seems to have been done more as a protest than anything, which has engendered some resentment for getting the position reinstated), but I've found myself filling the vacuum anyways.

The Corps has ~2,000 cadets. I've started in my major unit (one of 9 units) by getting the names of the atheist and agnostic freshmen cadets (as well as a deist and a neo-pagan), and I took 5 of them with me to the school's Agnostic and Atheist Student Group, which was a hit both with the freshmen and the organization. My current plans include trying to get all of the irreligious freshmen in the Corps to attend these meetings with me, pending cooperation with the Corps-wide Chaplain on just who those freshmen are. The AASG is a debate group that discusses such topics as morality without religion and so forth, and is actually a really fun group, so I'm definately going to be pushing it for these cadets.

However, since we're in a very conservative, religious university in Texas, these freshmen are getting inundated with religious pressure, and I want to expand my help to include something that passes as more of a alternative to all of the bible studies and prayer sessions they're constantly getting offered. (To get an idea of the atmosphere I'm talking about, we freethinkers sit through a mimimum of two prayers a day at morning and evening chow, and every speaker for every event feels the need to quote half of the bible. It does get a little old.)

I'm short on ideas of what all I can do for the freshmen, though. I've been thinking along the lines of having some group relaxed dinners (alternative to chow) so that they can get to know one another and realize they aren't alone, which would also let me keep tabs on if any are getting any harassment within their outfits (though in my experience, 95% of the reaction I got was, if not positive, then at least no worse than good-natured ribbing. Then again, I also know the Bible better than just about anyone else in my unit, which is a great defense against the conversion-minded).

What else could I be doing for them? I have a pretty good selection of Sagan and Dawkins and so forth, so I guess I could do either a borrow-a-book or book study thing, if there's any interest. Or maybe once monthly meetings about stuff like what it's like to be an atheist in the military (though not all are military bound)? There is an obnoxious attitude of "no atheists in foxholes" that I find offensive and I would like to try and counter.

So, please, does anyone have any suggestions? The normal chaplain types do bible studies, devotionals, church carpooling, BBQs, and general counseling, and nontheistic equivalents would be welcomed.

Please note, I am not trying to make waves with anyone. I will not be challenging prayers, or attacking the current chaplain system, so please don't make suggestions that would just create resentment for atheists.

Stuck between Rev and a hard place

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:00:48 -0800

Again, my childhood reverend is trying to convince me to be religious. How do I deal with him? Religion is a very tender subject in my family since my temporary estrangement from them regarding my non-belief in God. Only after coming out as a non-religious adult, a few painful years of not talking and then a gradual return to normalcy have we gotten along, and during all that time, I refused to let religion become a topic of conversation because I know how much it hurts them that I'm not Christian. As a sign of deference and respect toward my parents, I attend church with them when I am home, but I do not take communion or otherwise participate in the service.

Ever since they found out about my nonbelief, I get an impassioned phone call every year or so from my toolbox of a childhood reverend encouraging me to come back to God, reminding me that if I were to die in a car accident, "there are only two outcomes". This time around, I told him that I won't, in fact, go to hell, because hell does not exist and a back and forth about my lack of faith ensued, in which I finally told him in so many words that I don't believe in God, most likely won't believe in God in the future, and because of this, am not comfortable returning to church. I know I shouldn't have engaged him, but I can't stand his repeated verbal assault and blatant disrespect of my privacy and life choices and it feels like honesty is the only way to get him to listen and stop. I am grown, married, and live away from home, and he still won't lay off. Every time, he will tattle to my parents about the nature of our conversations; this time, I'm very afraid that it will result in another estrangement period. It's killing me--I can't lie, but I can't bend over and take it every time he feels the need to remind me of my supposed fiery future.

What do I say to this guy? What do I say to my parents? In case it's relevant, I was raised in a very conservative Lutheran church.

How can this pilgrim acquire faith?

mr_book — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:24:00 -0800

Please help this petty agnostic acquire faith in a higher power. I am a 27 yr old agnostic who has attempted the practice of several different religions over the years, eventually calcifying into what my friends have called a "big, bad atheist." After realizing a few years back that atheism wasn't the way to go for me, I started saying that I was an agnostic. I'm not sure that that label fits either.

Every time I've tried experimenting with a religion, I've been fascinated by all of the rituals and mythology which went along with it, but I've never been able to really buy into it. I can't seem to believe concepts like resurrection, reincarnation, angels, the goddess, animistic spirits, et cetera.

I dislike this. I don't want to go through my life not experiencing Faith. I've talked to several people about this, looked online, read books, but what it almost always comes down to is: "If you don't have faith, you can't accept an explanation. If you do have faith, no explanation is necessary." That's all well and good, but it doesn't help me. It's the philosophical equivalent of saying: "Tough rocks, kid."

I've recently come to the conclusion that even if reincarnation, resurrection, et cetera are complete bullshit, I think my experience of the world would be better and fuller is they were not.

I've received advice like "do community service" and "visit a church more often" and "pray" but that's not helpful. I'm not looking for morality - that I can do on my own. I'm also not looking for a religion - I don't need a spiritual bureaucracy telling me how to live my life. What I'm interested in is acquiring Faith itself, not its trappings.

If there are any personal experiences out there which can help, or any advice toward the subject, I'd be grateful. I'm interested in an actual method for acquiring Faith. Literally, how do I get it?

Worry about tomorrow today, or tomorrow?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:42:09 -0800

Relationshipfilter: I'm agnostic. She's Christian. We've been dating for four months. We fit eachother well and are very happy together, but of course clash over our deeply-held ideologies. Should we worry about the ideological clashes now, or be happy with eachother now and worry about how to raise the kids if/when we have kids? We get along great in 99.9% of our day-to-day lives. Seriously, best relationship I've ever been involved in, when it comes to everything except the religious clash. We try not to think/talk about it, but it resurfaces every few weeks to some degree or other, usually because of me worrying about what I'm asking about here.

Here's the issue: her faith is very strongly that Christianity is Truth and that non-Christians burn in hell. Mine is that Truth is beyond what any of us can understand, and that if anything, a lot of different religions are trying (through imperfect human perspectives and more-imperfect human organizations) to describe different parts of the elephant in the dark room by touch alone, if you'll forgive my mixed metaphor. I can deal with this dispute in my own life and in our relationship, I think.

The problem is the potential issue of kids, which she wants relatively soon. I'm okay with children -- in most ways we share opinions about childrearing. The catch is that I deeply respect the way my parents raised me -- by giving me information and guidance and being ready to catch me if I fell, but letting me make most of my own decisions and face those consequences. She agrees with that in most areas of childrearing, but she insists that her kids must be raised in a Christian home, and she has expressed fears to me about how her kids might be less likely to be believers if their father is a non-believer (and consequently might be more likely to go to hell).

So here's the thing: We've been dating for about four months. I realize this is a drop in the bucket -- I've been in several serious relationships, a couple of which have lasted much longer -- but the potential for long-term discord unsettles me. She thinks we should enjoy our happiness together now and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. I really want to think like that but I'm afraid of waking up ten years from now with kids and feeling very upset that I'm not allowed to share this part of myself with them without upsetting my wife.

Any advice would be appreciated, particularly advice with an eye towards making this work so that both of us are, if not completely happy, at least able to live with ourselves. I know I can't change her, and I doubt I'm going to change, but I'd like to aim for happiness, somehow.

Cream and sugar, hold the Jesus please

Scoo — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:20:05 -0800

Advice for an agnostic amongst Evangelical Lutherans... My wife and sons are Evangelical Lutherans. I am an agnostic (I say "maybe" an awful lot). An EL church has just opened down the street, and we're going to check it out, for attending services and sunday school for the boys. I think the idea of Jesus is nice and all, but don't accept the notion of his divinity. The core principles I'm mostly OK with (summary cribbed from another MeFite's post IIRC):

- Throwing the money changers out of the temple
- Praying in secret
- Giving to charity in modesty and secret
- Never judging others - only God is allowed to judge
- Let those who are without sin cast the first stone...
- The meek shall inherit the earth
- It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God
- Turn the other cheek
- The parable of the good samaritan - a parable that, above all else, teaches that deeds are more important than any kind of professed religion
- The emphasis on forgiveness
- The emphasis on respecting the outsiders and sinners, not the religous authorities

and have no problem exposing the kids to the ELC version of it. I have taught my oldest son that the whole matter is for the individual to decide.

Will the Lutherans accept a guy like me into the community as is?
It seems like a nice relaxed group, and I like the singing and the coffee, but worry that being friendly and open minded isn't going to cut it. Advice appreciated, extra credit awarded for humorous, tension-defusing one-liners.

american atheist or agnostic

luis huiton — Sat, 06 May 2006 04:17:20 -0800

Please it's not a debate about if its right or wrong to be godless ! From my european point of view the religion seems to be a very important part of life in the usa today.

For you american atheist or agnostic members of this forum, do you feel discriminated, or ignored in your everyday life ?

Oh, Jesus F-ing Christ.

chiababe — Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:08:42 -0800

How do I have the conversation with my dad that my belief in God is not the same as his? I was raised in a Southern Baptist home (fundies ahoy!). I have since decided that organized religion and God are not for me. I just don't believe it. My parents, dad especially, have become more and more involved in the church since I've left home and they are constantly dropping hints about going to church, etc. Last week, my dad sent me an email and this is it, in it's entirety "Leslie, Do you want to go to heaven when you die? Dad" (insert giant eyeroll here). I understand that it distresses my parents because they think I've "strayed from the flock" and I would like to keep a good relationship with them, but I don't know how to say "Hey, I think your beliefs are ludicrous. Leave me alone about it." Help me, Mefi agnostics/atheists!

Should I tell my parents I'm agnostic?

Alex Handcoding — Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:07:36 -0800

Should I tell my parents I'm agnostic? Well, with the question out of the way, here's some background. I'm 27 and I grew up Catholic. My parents are in their upper-50s and they're not the bible-beating type but they do go to church a few times a month. I went to church with my parents as I grew up. Into college, I'd rarely go, perhaps just for Easter (since I'd be home for Christmas anyway and I'd go with my family then). Over the past two years or so, I gradually realized that I was just going through the motions and that I didn't really believe that strongly in religion anymore.

I've been out of college for a few years now and I usually see my parents over the major holidays (Thanksgiving and Christmas) along with one or two other times throughout the year. If I was visiting in (say) July, we might not go to church; but, we'd go if I was visiting for Christmas or Easter.

It may seem odd that I'm even asking the question. "Why not tell them?", you might ask. Well, I'm not very conflict-minded and I'm not sure how they'd react to it. And I get the feeling that they may be more religious than other couples their age. For instance, though I think my mom feels differently, I know that my dad considers homosexuality a sin (I'm straight, fwiw). My dad also attends the occasional weekend religious retreats which some members of their church have organized. (I suppose my mom might also attend but there's only a men's religious retreat at the moment.)

Perhaps I have three options. One would be not telling them but still attending church with them when I visit (which seems like a bit of a sham). Or, I could tell them, at which point I could either not attend services with them or go anyway. The latter of those (telling them but going anyway) doesn't seem likely to me, but I included it on the off-chance that it might ease the transition for them (as that would retain our family tradition of going to church on Christmas morning together).

If you feel that I should tell them (which is the way I'm leaning), I'd also be interested in suggestions on going about that. I'm fairly close with my parents and I talk with them several times a month; I suppose I could bring it up during one of those phone calls (though how I would segue to this, I have no idea). Or, I could tell them in person during one of my visits -- fortunately, the next time I see them would probably be this summer or fall, neither of which would coincide with Christmas or Easter (so it's not like I'd be telling them the day before a major church service).

Finding a wedding officiant

malphigian — Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:25:37 -0800

Process for finding a wedding officiant? [more] An atheist former jew and a slightly christian agnostic, neither a member of any congregation or anything resembling one. We're trying to find an officiant for our wedding next spring (in the catskills in NY, but I'm not sure that matters much for my question), and I'm sort of at a loss as to where to start. We'd like a ceremony that's uses various religious traditions without being overtly religious (if that makes any sense). There are some religious groups that seem appropriate (unitarians), but it seems weird to just contact them out of nowhere not being a member of any congregation. There are also random web sites for "interfaith" ministers, but it's really hard to narrow them down.

Anyone have any tips or ideas for getting recommendations? Do I just have to call and meet with tons of random people?

What do agnostic people think about the afterlife?

grefo — Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:23:11 -0800

Being agnostic, what are some people's thoughts regarding life after death. Where to people go, spiritually or otherwise, after they die? More inside... My grandfather passed away very suddenly, and my family is mostly a religious sort and they all think he's in heaven...but...I'm curious what other religions or philosophies might believe.