Ask MetaFilter questions tagged with Religion

How do I address a Greek Orthodox priest in a written communication?

lily_bart — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:25:34 -0800

How do I address a Greek Orthodox priest in a written communication? I'm a respectful non-believer. I need to write the most mundane of emails to the Greek Orthodox priest of the church in my neighborhood (asking permission to park in the church lot!). But I have no idea how to address him.

I want to be respectful, but at the same time, I don't want to say something that implies that I believe in something I don't (organized religion). I.e., I don't know that I really feel comfortable calling him "Father" or something, and I don't even know enough to know if that's the right term anyway!

But it also seems rude to begin with no salutation at all.

Thoughts?

What can I find solace in?

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:41:02 -0800

I'm a non-religious male currently going through a really rough patch. I have no family or friends I can depend on. Is there something to lean on for comfort during this hard time? Since I was a kid, I've felt alone in the world. My parents had major problems of their own, so they mostly dealt with their stuff and left us kids to fend for ourselves. For this reason, my sisters and I carved out separate lives for ourselves and so don't really talk much these days.

Recenty, I've been battling major depression. I'm on meds and have been seeing a therapist, but still feel down in the dumps. The major problem I have is that I blame myself for everything that has happened to me. This stems from the fact that my mom made it a point to tell me that if I hadn't been born, she and my dad would have divorced. I've been talking this out, but during the holidays, I'm alone and left with only my thoughts.

I don't have anyone or anything to lean on at this point. My family is no use, I don't have close friends or a significant other, and am not religious. I feel adrift and helpless and don't know what or who I can look to for a little support. I've always envied folks who are religious because whenever they have tough times, they seem to be able to pray and everything is cool. I'd like to find something like that without having to become religious.

My question is, what do you turn to in times of trouble to give you comfort?

Why did they make me eat fish on Fridays?

tastybrains — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:52:42 -0800

In some religions (at the very least Catholicism), eating fish on Fridays is (or at least was) a requirement and seems to remain a bit of a tradition. I was raised by some strict Catholics, but never understood what the real rule was. Do you have to eat fish, or do you just have to not eat meat? And how exactly is "meat" defined in this situation? This question is one I've wondered for a long time, triggered by my intense dislike of all seafood. Most recently, what triggered this question was the fact that it seems that all corporate cafeterias I know of serve fish every Friday (and stank up the whole place).

As a child, on Fridays during Lent, I was given a lot of shit for refusing to eat fish like everyone else. My question was always "if we can't eat meat, why can't we just order some cheese pizza?!" Really...why? Why is fish the traditional alternative to meat, instead of *real* nonmeat foods like tofu and beans and pasta and the aforementioned cheese pizza?

I also wondered exactly how fish was not meat, but chicken was. I mean, where is the line drawn between meat-dead-animals and non-meat-dead-animals? Is it warm-blooded versus cold-blooded (if so, could I eat amphibians and reptiles on Fridays if I wanted to observe this rule? Are frog legs and alligator fair game?)? Is it land-dwelling versus water-dwelling (if so, could I eat a dolphin or a manatee?)?

What about mealworms? Could I eat those?

How to say "you're crazy"?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:08:51 -0800

How do you tell someone that they're "crazy"? I need to help a best friend who is losing his sanity. It's a long story... About three years ago, in his early twenties, while under a huge deal of pressure in a very stressful job, he started hearing God speaking to him – literally hearing the voice as if it were real. He began to identify as a Christian, and immersed himself deeply in biblical scholarship, Gospel of Thomas, Gnosticism, all that sort of thing. It wasn’t run of the mill born-again stuff; it was obsessive, and a complete and utter break from his previous personality. The signs that something was odd were obvious, but his parents, for reasons I won’t go into, were of no help. His behaviour became more and more erratic, he could not continue working, he got arrested after flipping out on his housemates after God warned him of an impending terrorist attack, he spent a brief period in a mental hospital, came out, got deeper into the stuff, started obsessing about hell, and ended up attempting suicide and was lucky to survive the attempt. I had been living overseas during this time, and was shocked to find out about the whole thing when I got back.
That was two years ago. After this he received the psychiatric treatment he should have had long before, was diagnosed with schizophrenia and started taking medication to control the voices and visions. He started living with his parents again, started receiving a disability pension, and realized that the whole thing had been a symptom of mental illness. He went into a deep depression for about a year. Then he began to recover, returned to university, and it seemed possible that he’d be able to put the whole thing behind him. He was no longer religious.
He graduated from university a bit less than a year ago, and since that time he’s seemed to have his condition under control. He was still living with his parents, taking it easy, half looking for work, began another course and planned to go overseas to live with another relative. He tried dating; he hadn’t had a girlfriend since the whole thing blew up. He seemed to be in a bit of a rut, but at least he wasn’t in danger. If you met him you might not consider him completely “normal” (who is?) but you wouldn’t suspect that he had schizophrenia.
But over the last week I’ve received a couple of calls from him. He sounded perfectly rational, there wasn’t a trace of mania in his voice, but what he was talking about disturbed me. He seems to have a new hobby researching occult symbolism on the internet. He spoke for hours about Egyptian, freemasonic imagery, Babylonian mythology, ancient mystery religions, and said that he had pieced everything together, and uncovered a great secret – basically a magic spell that can lead to life after death. Apparently this secret has been known throughout the ages but because it is being kept secret because it is dangerous and if you do it wrong you will go to hell. Anyway, he has uncovered the magic spell, which he says has given him the feeling of eternal life, physical sensation of power, enlightenment etcetera. He instructed me how to perform this spell myself (the particular details are not important, needless to say it is quite bizarre). But he says he hasn’t discovered the final stages of the spell and is still looking.
I didn’t know what to say. What I wanted to say was – “have you been taking your meds?” But I didn’t want to offend him. I didn’t want to say that his “enlightenment” was just his mental condition resurfacing. I just listened patiently and said, “hmmm… that’s interesting”. The thing is, he talks in the most normal way. He knows he is perfectly sane. And I’m pretty sure he has been taking his meds, but something is still wrong. If I tell him that he’s losing his mind, he’ll just think I’m being an asshole.
It is stressing me out because this guy is my best friend, we’ve been best friends since we were like ten years old. He’s the only friend I’ve kept in contact with since school. And he’s really smart, an excellent guy, who could achieve anything if it wasn’t for this illness. When I recall all the memories of how we grew up together, I just feel totally awful about what it has come to.
So… I don’t really know if there’s an answer to this question, or if anyone has been in the same situation, or what. But I’m at a bit of a loss. He needs help getting back into the real world and piecing his life together again. How do you tell someone that they are “crazy” when they’re obviously not going to believe you?

Is it just me?

SNACKeR — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:19:29 -0800

Is it just me or is the headline on this page offensive? The Toronto Star article in question is:

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/yourhealth/women%27shealth/article/738787--cancer-test-urged-for-jewish-women?bn=1

I thought you could be of any ethnicity and be Jewish, if for none other reason than that you converted.

Why is the term Jewish being used when they clearly mean to talk about a particular line of DNA as opposed to religious or cultural affiliation?

(Gentile asking.)

Nietzsche is to Nihilism as Who is to Optimism?

MikeHarris — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:58:32 -0800

I'm looking for philosophers, both classical and modern, who have constructed arguments for optimism. Now, by that, I don't mean I'm looking for positive psychologists – I know about Seligman's Learned Optimism and Burns' Feeling Good, the two biggies in that field.

What I'm looking for is more a support of the actual philosophical construct of optimism. In other words, what Nietzsche did for nihilism, these philosophers whose names I'm soliciting would have done this for optimism, or for philosophical models of thought that directly support optimism.

The most I was able to do was that Candide was modeled off of Gottfried Leibniz's belief that we live in the best of all possible worlds; I tried reading the English copy of Leibniz's Théodicée on Project Gutenberg, but found it a little too thick to follow.

Ideally, the people you would refer me to would either be able to be semicomprehensible to a motivated layman, or would have a good book in which someone else basically explains the philosopher's system, precepts, theses or what have you in layman's terms.

A backup option would be theological proponents of optimism, or of theological models of thought that could be considered optimistic – but of the two, I'd prefer to read materials philosophical, not theological, in nature.

The cookies in the lobby are not helping, either.

Syllables — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:52:17 -0800

I'm scared I'm becoming Christian. Help? It isn't that I think there is anything wrong about being religious. If other people are psyched about God, that's great, good for them.

My parents are lapsed Catholics, my grandparents devout Catholics, and my siblings and I are nothing. I came to the conclusion at an early age that I am -nowhere- near intelligent enough to say whether God exists. I certainly don't believe humans were cast out of a magical garden because a rib-woman ate a piece of fruit a talking snake told her to eat. I've read the Bible and taking a lot of it literally seems silly to me.

The problem is, I'm worried I'm starting to get sucked in. Every other Saturday night I bring a group of disabled people to a non-denominational Christian church. At first I was annoyed. Then the next week less annoyed. Now months later...I'm looking forward to the service. Last night, I was at our city's holiday parade, and baby Jesus went by on the flatbed of a truck, with Mary and Joseph kneeling over him...and I started crying. What the hell.

My core beliefs (and disbeliefs) haven't changed, I don't think. But I'm getting scared. I don't want to be brainwashed. I certainly don't want to be one of the sort who, when asked about the love of their lives, go on for 45 minutes about Jesus. Not bringing these people to church isn't an option, in fact it's part of my job. I don't have to participate in the service but I do have to sit with them.

So what do I do? I'm scared to talk to anyone I know and have them encourage 'my relationship with God'. I don't particularly feel like I'm missing anything spiritually, I'm pretty happy with all areas of my life to be honest. Why is this happening? Do I need to go have my hormone balances checked?

I’d like advice on how to either leave my church as gracefully as possible, or find a way to reconcile my lack of faith with my continued church membership.

cheapskatebay — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:50:41 -0800

I’d like advice on how to either leave my church as gracefully as possible, or find a way to reconcile my lack of faith with my continued church membership. Inspired by the thoughtful replies to two recent AskMe questions (here and here), I also have a question about atheism, but I come at it from a different angle: how can I deal with my lack of faith when I’ve been a committed church member? The real kicker is that I’ve never believed in the first place.

Although I’m not posting this anonymously, I seldom have the opportunity to post to Ask Metafilter, and I’m a slow typist, too. I’ll therefore try to provide a lot of detail, with a truncated version of the situation at the end for those who’d prefer not to wade through an extremely long question.

The long story: I’m a member of a Presbyterian Church (USA) congregation, and I have been for 10 years. I also regularly attended a Presbyterian church as a child. Over the years gradually I’ve assumed a leadership role in my church and I now serve as an Elder (part of the elected board that leads the church) and also as the church’s treasurer.

My problem is straightforward: I am an atheist. Call me agnostic if you like – I’m certainly willing to accept that the existence or non-existence of God is a question I can’t satisfactorily answer. More accurately, I’m what I’ve seen referred to as an “apatheist” or “practical atheist” – someone for whom religion simply isn’t important.

I’m just not a spiritual person – I don’t wonder about an afterlife I don’t believe exists, I don’t dwell on the (non-?)existence of a higher power, I don’t worry about which religion is “right” and which is “wrong,” and I never have worried about these “big picture” issues, even as a child. I don’t have any reason to believe there is a God, and I therefore don’t have that belief – and never have. I certainly don’t think that religious belief is a necessary component of living a virtuous or moral life.

You might reasonably ask why someone like me attends church in the first place. I like going to my church for several reasons. We’re one of the more liberal denominations in terms of our philosophies and outlook, which manifests itself (in our church, at least) as being very gay-friendly, environmentally aware, and committed to issues of social justice. Our mission dollars support programs that empower poor women and children in our community and around the world. We have lots of older members who have tremendously interesting life experiences and perspectives to share. I have the tradition of having attended worship services in this faith for most of my life, which is a source of comfort. My wife also grew up Presbyterian, and we were married by a Presbyterian minister. She is a believing Christian and we’re bringing up our two young children in the church, as well.

It’s been very easy to fall into the routines of membership, and as I’ve done so, I’ve found myself increasingly taking on a leadership role within the church. It’s a small church, and anyone with the slightest interest tends to get recruited to help in some way, shape or form. I’m grateful for the good people who’ve served as mentors to me, and who’ve afforded me opportunities to share my talents.

So, why would I leave, particularly now? An essential part of being a member of our congregation, I would argue, is either being a believer in God or, at least, making a good-faith effort to believe. I’ve never been a believer, nor a person interested in making that kind of good-faith effort, and as far as I can tell, that distinguishes me from everyone else. I’ve even lied about my belief when I’ve professed my faith publicly. What I’ve done is dishonest and unethical, and I’m tired of pretending to be a believer when I’m not one. I am increasingly close to concluding that my only responsible course of action is to leave the church. Whether that is an abrupt or gradual process, I’m not sure, but it doesn’t feel right to feign belief that I don’t have.

My ability to deal with this cognitive dissonance waxes and wanes over time, but the long-term trend has definitely tipped toward my feeling increasingly awkward as a church member. In the past year, in particular, I’ve become very uncomfortable. As my responsibilities increase, I feel like I’m living more and more of a lie.

One might wonder if I’m simply overwhelmed by the duties I’ve assumed. While I am very busy with work and other family and charitable obligations in addition to my work for the church, I truly don’t think this is a case of being overworked in my church volunteer duties. When I’ve been overwhelmed with church-related commitments in the past, I’ve found ways to cut back, and everyone at the church has been very supportive of my doing so. In fact, I recently became the church’s treasurer and I really enjoy the job – dealing with investments and budgeting is a nice fit with my interests and skills.

In all candor, I also think that part of what may be increasing my dissatisfaction at this time is the continued decline of our membership, and what that portends for the future. We lose perhaps 5% of our membership on a year-over-year basis and we add far too few new members to reverse that trend. I feel like we’re in the midst of a protracted death as a congregation and as a denomination – both literally and figuratively –and, while I’m ashamed of feeling that way, it surely has an effect.

When I see the numbers showing the declining membership figures for our denomination and our church – it’s not all due to death – I know that I simply cannot be the only person who feels this way. Still, I don’t know of anyone who’s left our church recently – at least, no one in a leadership role. Our church embraces modernity and education, it’s about as liberal in its theology as they come, and it’s a nice place to congregate. It would be harder to leave, I’d think, than it would be to leave a fundamentalist church! Still, it isn’t a social club, and I’m not comfortable treating it as such. Maybe there are atheists or agnostics aplenty in the pews, but I’m certainly not aware of them.

Additional factors/complications/background:

1. I don’t know how this would play out with my wife and children. It’s not uncommon for our church members to attend services with their children but without their spouses; in those instances, though, the non-member spouse (who is usually the husband/father) has never attended. I can’t think of a single instance where someone in a couple has simply stopped attending worship services, let alone someone in a leadership role. My wife knows of my lack of faith and is understanding and supportive, but she’d prefer that I continue to attend worship services, special events and committee meetings. I think I benefited from attending Presbyterian services as a child, and I have no problem at all with my children continuing to do so. I worry, though, that this would be a source of considerable tension within our family.
2. There are a lot of people at my church who’ve reached out to me and made me feel welcome and special. I admire, respect and love them deeply. Leaving them and potentially losing their friendship would be wrenching.
3. Our church, and our denomination, almost seem to expect a certain level of faithlessness. Maybe it’s assumed to be transitory, not permanent, but questioning one’s faith is encouraged in our tradition. I feel like making a clean break would be a challenge with this mindset being prevalent.
4. I’ve made leadership commitments that I think I should honor, notwithstanding my personal lack of belief.
5. Our pastor is young and relatively new to our church. I’m very fond of him and I think it would be very difficult for him to accept my leaving, and I’ve specifically avoided speaking with him as a result.
6. I should note that I’m not interested in joining, say, a Unitarian church, at least at this point. I don’t want to join a new congregation, even if that congregation would welcome an atheist like me – I’m more concerned about extricating myself from, or learning to live among, my current congregation.
7. Maybe I’m placing too much emphasis on my lack of faith… I just feel like someone who believes in God at some point, then loses that faith, is in a different situation than me, who’s never believed and who’s lied about that for years. If you think I’m making too much of this distinction, let me know.

What I really want, to be honest, is to remain a church member. I like many things about being a member of my church. I don’t mind going to the services with my wife and kids on Sundays. I like the fact that we’re liberal. I even kind of like the occasionally grueling committee work. I just don’t see how I can continue to be a member if I’m neither a believer in the existence of God nor interested in changing that stance. I understand that my position on staying or leaving might seem very stark and draconian, but I’ve been in the gray area long enough to be disillusioned with remaining there. Nevertheless, I’d be very interested in hearing any stories of anyone who’s been able to overcome such feelings.

If you’ve been in a similar situation and have separated from membership, how did you do so? Was it sudden or abrupt? Did you fulfill terms on committees and boards, or leave them when you left the church?

The short story: I’m neither ashamed nor proud of my atheism; frankly, I’m apathetic about matters of faith, spirituality and belief. I grew up Presbyterian and I find myself taking on a larger leadership role within my church. If there is a way to reconcile my lack of belief with continued church membership, I’m all for that, but I don’t see how that can be done. If I decide to leave, how can I do so gracefully and with dignity? Are there any books, resources, or personal stories that you can share that address this situation?

Thank you for reading this and for your thoughts.

Oh brother, where art thou?

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:35:53 -0800

I am estranged from my brother for a lot of different reasons. I want to have a relationship with him, but I only can do that if I do it 100% on his terms, which I simply cannot do (not religious and getting more anti-religious by the day). Should I continue to make the effort in the hopes of breaking through to him or just live my life without my only sibling? My brother and I have been estranged practically since birth. He was five years old when I (baby sister) was born and instantly disliked my presense and has resented my being born ever since. When my parents got a divorce, he chose to stay with my stepfather (his bio father). I went with my mother and we all still visited frequently (tho still feeling quite the chill from my brother) and were "family". A very small family, with few other relatives.

My brother joined the military and served in Desert Storm, and when he came back, he spent a fair amount of time drinking and going to the local strip club. The absolute ONLY time my brother and I have ever bonded was ONE night when I was about 19, he came back from a night of mild debauchery and sat on my bed and told me some cool stories about his service and what he'd been up to that night. That is literally the only time I have ever had a sincere positive interaction with him, and I turn it over in my mind and savor it.

After the military, my brother joined a fairly prominant religious group and met his wife, who is the daughter of a bishop. I whole heartedly was for the marriage, and was happy my bro had found someone to love and who loved him. When my parents weren't invited to the wedding, we (Mom, Dad and I) were upset, but were informed that it was just the way it is, and so time went on. (I will admit, I was peeved as hell, our Dad, his bio father, was elderly and it was his only son's only wedding). He also physically abused our elderly Dad one night in a fit of rage, hitting him over the head with an aluminum frying pan (not making that up).

Some more time passed and some more stuff happened wherein our mother (and I, but I'm totally used to it) was treated really, really poorly by my religious-family-oriented brother and his wife. After my Dad died, she(Mom) went to live with my bro & wife for a while far, far away, and they basically gave her the bums rush and moved one day while she was out and left no forwarding address and changed their phone number. She was left to fend for herself (capable of this in a small town, not a big city) and had to go to the homeless shelter and was harrassed and all sorts of scary stuff for an elderly-ish person. When confronted with his actions towards our mother, he said she was messy and had thrown fits (messy yes, fit thrower? Pot-kettle)

I got my Mom back and situated (suicidal and angry and hurt, but situated) in a smaller community, and life goes on again.

I had a period of time where I felt really angry toward his religion, as I saw that as the wedge that came between my brother and I ever having anything at all, because I am a sinner of the worst kind (I smoke pot and fornicated before marriage, and lots of other things he thinks are sins) and he just doesn't think I am good. During this time, I did a shit-ton of research on his religion and wrote a really scathing critique of it, and in a moment of stupidity, hit send. My brother wrote back that he KNEW his religion was right, he KNEW the guy that made it up was truthful and righteous, he KNEW. He then told me that I wasn't his sister, that the Sisters were his sisters, and my heart broke into a million pieces. I apologized sincerely and have been ziplipped about his religion, but the damage was done (his damage, mine doesn't seem to be recognized, but that's okay. I'm tough :))

My culpabilty here is clear...I slandered his religion (I mean~put it on BLAST) and some days I wish I hadn't said a word (leaving everything to be completely fake and empty) and other days I'm glad I got to say my piece since we have NEVER had any relationship at all. He claims he loves me, but has proven in thousands of ways over the years that he wouldn't pee on me if I was on fire (UNLESS I joined his religion, then hunky doriness)

tl;dr :

My bro and I are estranged due to his religion, my lifestyle (really tame, but not to him), and my unfortunate choice to "say something about it" instead of keeping it to myself (forever stuffing it down). I want to have a brother. I want to be an Auntie. I want to be able to say my older brother has my back, like other people do.

Mefites, are any of you estranged from your siblings and can tell me how to get over it? And should I keep trying to reach out, or just let it die on the vine? If I reach out, what can I say? I'm not going to apologize again ( I was 100% factual and I have apologized 3 times), and he just keeps glossing over everything, because in his world, families don't argue or disagree, and if they do, you cut them out, because they are evil.

I'm not evil. I just want to have a brother.

I know I shouldn't have hit send, but I felt so fake not saying what I had to say. Help me Mefi.

I can't remember the name of an obscure religion

ascetic — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:19:56 -0800

Can't remember the name of a particular obscure religion. Or maybe it is just a philosophy? I know it ends with "ism" and includes the name of the founder, perhaps? Can't remember any other details. :( Any ideas?

Book recommendations for a new Christian!

schmoo — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:37:43 -0800

I'm looking for book recommendations for a young woman who has recently become interested in religion. Ideas please! I would like to buy my younger sister a book as one of her Christmas gifts. She is 19, and about four or five months ago was introduced to religion when she joined some college friends on a trip to Africa to do the normal Christian aid type work. She's since become more and more involved with the church and interested in religion - to the point that she was baptised a couple of weeks ago. The church is the most relaxed I've ever been to - it's in a purpose-built barn/hall, and they have a live band playing covers of modern songs. It's all very youth-orientated and all about friendship, community and fun. (I'm giving this information to try and give an idea of the kind of church/religion she's into. I'm not religious at all so apologies if I sound a little clueless.)

I would like to buy her a book for Christmas with some kind of spiritual/religious/Christian theme, to show her that while I'm not religious (and have probably been quite scathing about religion in the past) I respect her and am pleased that she's found this and that it makes her happy. However, I don't want to get herself anything with too strong a message - as I said she's only starting to be involved in the church, she's young, and I think she'd only be embarrassed by any too overtly religious gift as she knows how unreligious I am.

When I was younger I flicked through one of the Chicken Soup books at a friend's - I seem to remember that these had a vaguely religious theme to them, am I right? Something like this is what I'm looking for.

So - please give me your recommendations!

To sum up- I'm looking for

- nothing too strong in its religious message
- probably fiction, but non-fiction ideas welcome
- something appropriate for a 19 year old girl who loves going out, seeing friends, parties - all the normal teenage stuff!
- something well written, with an inspirational or thoughtful message.

Thanks!

Letting go of God: Help me deal with my atheism and the five stages of grief. I'm in the fourth stage now.

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:57:30 -0800

Please give advice on how to accept my atheism, let go of God and the need for one, how to get over the fourth stage of grief/letting go (depression), and how to find my passion for life again! Hello, hivemind.

I'm from a totally Bible-banging family (Creationists, End Timers, warped-Republicans, sexist, homophobic and a little racist). I haven't been a Christian for going on six years now, ever since I read the Bible all the way through and decided it was a total piece of junk filled with violence and hatred toward other faiths, women, etc. I know I don't believe in the Christian God, or, it seems, any religion or philosophy akin to it (no, not even Buddhism), as I have read many religious texts, apologetics and more besides and just don't feel there's any evidence for any of it. Simply put, I appear to be an atheist...at least as far as labels go.

The unfortunate thing is that I'm not handling this too well, and it has recently occurred to me that I have been going through what can best be identified as the five stages of grief, which just annoys me to no end! (I'd just like to get on with my life!) The whole not believing in God/gods thing has really been like a death in the family, so to speak...it's frustrating and painful. I'm specifically not having what I would consider healthy reactions to my lack of faith, which is a major reason that I've chosen to post this, rather than just rely on the great advice that I could find in similar questions from the past.

Maybe I should first talk about the five stages.

For one year, I was in denial. Even though I didn't believe in God, I continued to say that I did and tried to push through. I came up with lots of excuses as to why my doubts were happening. I read a lot of Christian apologetics that I didn't agree with in that time, in an attempt to act like things were okay with me and the Big Aggressive Creator in the Sky. I even avoided competing ideas. I prayed lots. I lived as closely to the Bible as I could, without totally ripping myself of my own thoughts regarding ethics and morality.

That didn't work, and I ended up getting angry. I was angry at the concept of God, angry that I couldn't seem to believe in it and angry that I had believed in what I felt was myth. I was angry at my family for bringing me up in extremism, as well as at all the borderline-abusive things they did in God's name, all the things they kept me from, because they were "of the devil". I was angry that I couldn't have lived "normally, like most people", in either moderate faith or no faith. In a weird sort of way, I was even angry that I was having to think about any of it. I couldn't decide whether I wanted to go back to the blind faith I'd had or bypass all of it, but I was angry that the issue had cropped up. I read everything I could get my hands on at this time, be it scientific or religious. I feel like I read more during this time than any other time of my life. I wanted to learn, so I could actually form my own opinions.

Another six months to a year passed, and bargaining began. I tried to live some form of very mild Christianity to agnosticism (Jesus was a good man; the Bible's a good "moral" text), thinking, "If I just do this, it will be the best of both worlds. I won't have any more problems. Things can work out this way." The idea was that I could still keep up with a religious community, be everyone's friend, etc. The reality, however, was that I began to identify less and less with Christians/Christianity/more religious people on the whole, with only a few exceptions, and that more of my friends slowly but surely ended up being agnostic, all the way to militant atheists. Not trying to step on any Mefi toes, but to be honest, the agnostics/atheists in my life were the only ones who didn't seem to be insecure, lying jerks most of the time, so it seems almost inevitable that things turned out the way they did. (Big disclaimer!!: I know this does not represent all Christians, just my experiences with some of them. I still even have some Christian friends, but not many.) I didn't go searching for my "heathen" friends, but we found each other. We gravitated toward one another, as our core philosophies were now similar. I also found/find myself annoyed by most religious people these days, but I never say/do anything regarding that. I try to accept where possible and be silent, when I feel myself unable. I married a mild-mannered, sugar-sweet atheist guy. My watered-down Christianity turned to full-blown agnosticism around the time I met him, as a result of all these experiences and changes.

I was happy with my agnosticism for a year, to year and a half, but recently I've noticed, as far as labels go, I am more of an atheist. To this very moment, though, I've not said aloud to anyone, not even my husband, that I actually consider myself an atheist. I don't know why the label means as much as it does, other than I know that if religious people dislike me now as an unbeliever, many will hate me as an atheist, even if that's what I most closely identify with... I guess I can't help but not want people to not hate me, even if they're extremist whack jobs. The label means a lot to me, too, though, because I'm really tired of lying about how I feel and think.

This seems to have put me in the fourth stage of grief, depression. I feel sad that I can't buy into the comforting stories I once did, sad that I can't agree with my family as far as faith goes, sad that I'm not accepted by tons of religious people (including family) when they find out I'm an unbeliever (even when I am accepting toward them), sad that I no longer believe in life after death or guiding forces in the universe. I think we are here, we die, and that's it, and that notion depresses me. I don't think there's any evidence to the contrary, however, so I'm bound to it...whether I like it or not. I know we can't know what happens "on the other side", but I highly doubt it's anything spectacular. I highly doubt it's anything at all.

I want to get to the fifth stage of grief, where I accept myself and the death of my religion and faith, but it just seems so impossible at this stage. As said, some of my reactions to my own atheism aren't healthy. For instance, I have lost my passion for a lot of life, which is bad for me in more ways than one, considering I am a professional artist and writer and need to feel and create accordingly. I miss my sense of wonder. I feel wonder at the universe, but it's a head-wonder, not a heart-wonder, like I felt with spirituality. I'll agree with Carl Sagan and my fellow atheists and agnostics that it's amazing to think about how statistically unlikely it is that I'm here, that the planet works the way it does, etc. I'll agree that, because of all these things and my finite time here on earth, I should value every second I have and live it to the fullest, without apology...

But I can't seem to...

I am amazed by the world, but that doesn't drive me. In fact, it's all the opposite. It makes me feel like there's no point. Amazement is just part of it, but it doesn't particularly mean much. I realize that, without "something behind everything", it doesn't matter one iota (speaking from a selfish perspective here) whether I build great things or just sit on my couch and rot, whether I live to be 100 or die tomorrow. It will matter to some, but not to many, and not for long. It's like, what am I trying to prove to anyone or to myself now? How on earth does any of it matter if it's just this tiny bit of time I have? I'd like to help people, and while I realize that while I do touch some people's lives, and that does make me happy, the odds are against my helping a significant number of people in my lifetime, try as I might, so it all feels a little hopeless and pointless still. Death depresses me immensely, and rather than living my life more fully as a result, I just have ended up somewhat stagnant...blahed and mehed out.

Please note that I'm actually not depressed in other areas of my life, just this one. But it does...influence...the other areas, from a foundational perspective, so it definitely needs to be seen to. I think it's affecting more, too, as time goes by. I appreciate the concept of life, but I don't really feel compelled to do much with it now, without the notion of some sort of equilibrium in the universe (carried out by a creator, karma, whatever). I mean, I do what I need to and try my best, but I'm not striving toward things like I once was. Without a reason behind things, so much stuff in the world seems overwhelmingly random and unfair and out of my control. (I think this is one of the reasons there are so many moderate Christians, even. People keep some idea of God, just so they can pray about the things they can't control, to comfort themselves.) I can't even pray about any of it, though, and I think the concept of sending good thoughts toward it all is just as silly. I've tried giving myself rituals, but it just doesn't work. I always feel silly.

So, hivemind, I guess what I want to know, after all my heathen rambling, is how do I peacefully come to accept my lack of faith and not having a god in the world? How do I regain passion for life, despite feeling everything is off balance without a godly figure? I've tried listening and reading some things, like Julia Sweeney's personal story, and while helpful and something I could identify well with, it's never gotten me over the hump. I'd appreciate personal advice, recommendations of what to read/listen to/do...anything, really.

Throw-away email: atheistic.blues@gmail.com

Thanks, guys and gals.

Seeking new Church

dmbfan93 — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:52:04 -0800

Need Church Recommendation in NOVA/DC area with active 20/30/40 single congregation Looking for a church in the NOVA/DC area, and specifically am looking for a Christian faith based church that is less focused/caters to families or equally caters to the single population and folks with lifestyles alternative to the family unit. Tired of feeling like an alien because I don't have a spouse and four children trailing me as I walk down the church aisle to my pew. If you know of any vibrant church congregations that have an active 20/30/40 something crowd composed of more than the usual married families but include an active single people population, please share the names of those churches and location. Thanks.

Remembering the name of a scifi book

Political Funny Man — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:34:25 -0800

I'm trying to remember the name of a sci-fi book. I read it like 10 years ago, so my memory of it's a bit fuzzy. One of the major topics was something about the religion of science. I remember a guy who was able to trick people, a traveling salesman of sorts, who sold someone a machine that turned lead into gold. The machine actually worked, but would stop working after he got away with his money. I don't *think* I'm imagining this book, but who knows...

A mystery in the window of a pickup truck

longsleeves — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:20:49 -0800

What could be causing an image of Jesus to appear in this man's truck window? What sort of treatment or coating could cause an image to reccur like this handsome visage of Jesus is reported to?

What are some long-form comics (including webcomics) that explore religion?

homelystar — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:18:18 -0800

What are some long-form comics (including webcomics) that explore religion and/or religious issues? I'm trying to educate myself about comics in general, but am especially interested in religious studies. Any religion is welcome. Skepticism or atheism as a theme is OK too. I can read only English and Spanish reliably, but would still like to know if you know of comics of this type in other languages. I'm less interested in explicitly "propaganda"-type cartoons--such as Jack Chick's for his brand of evangelical Christianity, or similar ones for Messianic Judaism or Richard Dawkins-style "New Atheism"--than in ones that tell a complex story. But propaganda is interesting too.

Already on my to-read list: Preacher; R. Crumb's "Genesis"; and maybe "Mystery Play" by Grant Morrison and Jon Muth. I've read Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis and Art Spiegelman's Maus and loved both. There must be a lot more I'm missing...right?

(I will also peruse the comics listed here, the list of Jewish comics characters here, and maybe "The Truth for Youth".)

Resources for study of Christian mysticism?

pahool — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:43:41 -0800

I'm looking for citable print and online references about Christian mysticism. I'm putting together a pathfinder document on Christian mysticism for an academic library. It would be used primarily by undergraduate students in a religious studies program. I want to give some references about the study of mysticism in general and then Christian mysticism in particular. I'd like to give some examples of both Catholic and orthodox mysticism and possibly some special topics like women mystics and modern perspectives.

So far, I've collected some articles and have looked at Evelyn Underhill's works on mysticism as well as some of Matthew Fox's writings for modern perspectives. Does anyone have any favorite resources for this topic? Anything you've read that you found useful? Any online databases (free or subscription) that would be particularly useful?

Eris, "Bob," the FSM... and who else?

lekvar — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:18:04 -0800

I know Eris, "Bob," and the Flying Spaghetti Monster... but what faux-religions came before? Humorous mocking (gentle or otherwise) of dominant religious organizations and beliefs are central to these "disorganized religions" but there's also an element of fellowship and "getting the joke." Are there other examples of this kind of thing? I find it hard to believe it's a spontaneous manifestation of the late 20th century.

Recommend me a book about the Dreamtime!

Greg Nog — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:39:26 -0800

I'd like to read a book about the Dreamtime of the Australians. I was kind of thinking about reading Chatwin, but these comments have made a little wary; I don't particularly want to read about another outsider's spiritual journey, and I don't want a New Agey attempt-at-universal-religion haphazardly mixed in with basic anthropological records. Can you recommend a solid book about Dreamtime?

Help me back in the church...

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 09:26:57 -0800

Help me reconcile my liberal beliefs with a church family again... Background details - I'm in my late 20's. In high school, I was a very active member of a church, until my liberal beliefs came into conflict with the conservative evangelical approach that the church I was with had. While I was with the church, I had ... effectively a large family of the other people in my youth group -- they were good people, but I was unable to compromise my true feelings and beliefs (more details about those later), and unwilling to lie about them.

I would like to reconnect with a church (I do believe in God, although my perspectives on Him and the way of relating with Him differ from the fundamental Christian beliefs)... My relationship with God has not suffered, but I do miss the connection with the people there.

I hold pretty strongly with a few liberal beliefs that are at odds with the fundamentalist church:
1) I support the LGBT community strongly, although I am hetero myself (Straight but not narrow, one of my LGBT friends likes to call me). I have zero tolerance for persecution or other poor behavior towards that community.
2) I don't buy into the whole celibacy before marriage thing. Lots of reasons that would make an Ask in themselves; I don't know that going into them will help here.
3) Evangelists ANNOY ME. A ton. I just don't see pushing your beliefs onto another person...

So, oh, brilliant hivemind, is there any way to reconcile such liberal beliefs and thoughts with the family of a church? Are there churches that aren't ultraconservative? I'm considering going to a service tomorrow morning that ... looks fairly modern and open, but am TERRIFIED that I'm going to run into the conservative bigotry of the church I left.

(Since it seems like a contradiction -- The people individually were AMAZING people... it was the church groupthink that I couldn't stand).

I've opened a throwaway for this one - you can mail me at meta.church.avoidance@gmail.com if you don't want to post here.

Are the existence of logical paradoxes evidence that logic is not Universal truth?

idyllhands — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:54:45 -0800

Are the existence of logical paradoxes evidence that logic is not Universal truth, or simply symptoms of incomplete or inaccurate semantic systems? I.e., if the Universe is infinite, then everything is possible and every possible scenario happens not only at least once, but an infinite number of times. Within this set of "Everything" is the possibility that "Nothing exists." But obviously something does exist, or I wouldn't be writing this and you wouldn't be reading this. One could say the Universe is not infinite, but then what is outside of it? It would be either Something, or Nothing. And if it is Something what is outside of that Something? If it is Nothing, then how can Something exist "within" it when Nothing has no "within." But this digression would be beside the point of this question. There are other paradoxes out there that have no resolution.

The reason I ask this is that I have recently moved from a "liberal" college town in my state to a rural "conservative" area for a job. I am surrounded by people who easily accept religion as an answer to questions such as this, and am attempting to separate my belief in Logic from their belief in God, and keep coming to holes in my system of thinking which require blind faith, and am trying to reconcile these holes so that my faith in Logic is founded rather than blind.

Please, no responses that I should find God =)

Identify this Buddha

Joe Beese — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:44:41 -0800

BuddhaFilter: Where is this, who made it, and how big is it?

Dead chicken + money + cigar = ?

serazin — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:55:15 -0800

What cultural or spiritual practice involves an alter or offering incorporating a dead chicken and money? Twice in the last few years, I've come across similar assemblies of objects that have intrigued me. The first was in a fairly undeveloped woodsy park in Oakland, California. It included a behead chicken - feathers still on, a half-smoked cigar, a few one dollar bills, and some coins. That was several years ago.

Then recently I was walking near my East Oakland home and found on the edge of the sidewalk, in front of a vacant lot, a box containing a dead chicken and a a handful of loose change. The chicken was somehow eviscerated, with intestine spilling loosely into the box.

I'm curious to know what religion, tradition, or culture uses this kind of alter or offering or whatnot. I'd love to hear any details you might know about it! Thanks.

Author! Author!

SLC Mom — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:49:40 -0800

Please recommend authors who use fiction to convey religious beliefs, a la C. S. Lewis. Not looking for religious books. Just books with a spiritual theme conveyed in a story. Lord of the Rings would fit.

The Shack would not.

Thanks MeFi!

Vacuum Genesis Afterlife?

Baby_Balrog — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:03:17 -0800

I'm trying to explain vacuum genesis and the probability that we'll all appear here again at some point.... to some friends. We've all been drinking. I know I saw an article where a physicist - a woman - stated something along the lines of - "I know I'll be here again."

I'm trying to explain how particles appear in a vacuum, how this is testable, how given a long enough amount of time and a large enough vacuum that anything might appear. Including an awesome world where we all exist again and have magical powers. And I have a pet dragon.

Where is the article I'm thinking of? I know it had a picture of Mozart's bust and it was green... because a green bust of Mozart will bamf into existence at some point in the impossibly far future.

Halp. They don't believe me.