Should I get a raise?
May 27, 2004 9:02 AM Subscribe
How much should an Advanced Excel (PivotTable, lookups, etc.) hombre in Manhattan be getting paid? I've been temping in this hole of an office for a few months and almost all spreadsheetery has become my responsibility. I think some sort of raise is in order, but I'm not sure what my target should be.
shinnin- It depends on what kind of office you work in. In my office, for example, many people who use the spreadsheet reports we generate can't do much more than open one, maybe do a basic calc. A well-constructed spreadsheet is the product of a definite skill.
skryche- Do you work for an agency? If so, go straight to them. They'll not only know what the proper rate for what you're doing should be, they'll make sure that their client (the company you're working for) starts paying it. They're losing out as much as you, and have much more leverage to get that done.
posted by mkultra at 9:30 AM on May 27, 2004
skryche- Do you work for an agency? If so, go straight to them. They'll not only know what the proper rate for what you're doing should be, they'll make sure that their client (the company you're working for) starts paying it. They're losing out as much as you, and have much more leverage to get that done.
posted by mkultra at 9:30 AM on May 27, 2004
I'm quite interested in what this number turns out to be.
(let's see, just divide the Manhattan number in two...)
posted by goethean at 9:52 AM on May 27, 2004
(let's see, just divide the Manhattan number in two...)
posted by goethean at 9:52 AM on May 27, 2004
If you're temping for an agency, I'm not sure the agency is going to go to their client and ask for more money for the assignment (unless the assignment has changed over what the client said they'd be needing in which case do speak up).
You might be able to ask your agency rep if there's a different assignment that would pay more in light of your advanced skills. You might want to go to a different agency or a different office of the same agency though since your rep may not want to mess up the deal they have with their client if they don't have to.
Certainly when the assignment ends, sit down with your rep and say look, these are my skills. What can I get paid for these skills that you might not have understood I have.
posted by willnot at 10:20 AM on May 27, 2004
You might be able to ask your agency rep if there's a different assignment that would pay more in light of your advanced skills. You might want to go to a different agency or a different office of the same agency though since your rep may not want to mess up the deal they have with their client if they don't have to.
Certainly when the assignment ends, sit down with your rep and say look, these are my skills. What can I get paid for these skills that you might not have understood I have.
posted by willnot at 10:20 AM on May 27, 2004
I echo what willnot said. I have been in a very similar situation more than once, and I have tried what mkultra suggests, and the agency has never given a shit. The answer is usually something like "So you're saying that if the client asks to extend, your answer would be no?" The last time it happened, I specifically said that I wanted them to ask for more money, and they said no. It seems counter-intuitive, but in the weird world of temping, it makes sense. They care more about their relationship with the client than they care about whether or not you keep breathing, and they have ten people who can also do pivot tables who will do so without complaining.
There are some agencies that consider their people highly skilled, and some that consider their people monkeys in front-office casual. If you're in one of the latter, then you probably passed their stupid Excel text with flying colors, and they think you should be glad that they didn't send you to collate 5000 page documents in some room without windows.
posted by bingo at 11:13 AM on May 27, 2004
There are some agencies that consider their people highly skilled, and some that consider their people monkeys in front-office casual. If you're in one of the latter, then you probably passed their stupid Excel text with flying colors, and they think you should be glad that they didn't send you to collate 5000 page documents in some room without windows.
posted by bingo at 11:13 AM on May 27, 2004
It's not just temping bingo, and it's not that they don't care if you keep breathing or not. If I hire a contractor to put in a closet, I strike an agreement with the contractor with respect to what it will cost (at least on a time and materials basis). Now, if after a few hours the contractor comes to me and says you know before I started this job, I didn't have much experience with closets and now that I do, I think you should pay me more since I'm more efficient now, well, I'm not going to be very receptive. I thought the price I'd agreed to was for somebody experienced with putting in closets.
It's the same thing here. The client of the temp agency thought they were hiring somebody to come in and do some pivot tables. Unless the nature of the job changed over what was originally agreed upon in which case let your agency rep know. If I brought in a contractor to put in a closet and I said while you're here, could you do some of this high value wood carving for the same hourly rate, well then I'd expect that the contractor might say wait this isn't what we talked about and my rate for that is different. If it's just hey, now I'm better at doing this, well good for you. You can get paid more on the future jobs, but not on this job because we already agreed to a price for that.
posted by willnot at 11:36 AM on May 27, 2004
It's the same thing here. The client of the temp agency thought they were hiring somebody to come in and do some pivot tables. Unless the nature of the job changed over what was originally agreed upon in which case let your agency rep know. If I brought in a contractor to put in a closet and I said while you're here, could you do some of this high value wood carving for the same hourly rate, well then I'd expect that the contractor might say wait this isn't what we talked about and my rate for that is different. If it's just hey, now I'm better at doing this, well good for you. You can get paid more on the future jobs, but not on this job because we already agreed to a price for that.
posted by willnot at 11:36 AM on May 27, 2004
Well here is my 5cents : if you can't do a pivot table and a lookup , personally I'm not going to even consider hiring you unless you have some other skills. I mean, pivot table isn't rocket science.
posted by elpapacito at 12:06 PM on May 27, 2004
posted by elpapacito at 12:06 PM on May 27, 2004
If you want the pay, the temp service probably needs to get you a job based specifically on your Excel skill, with pay negotiated from the customer up front.
Otherwise you would have to wait to be hired "full time" by the company, and then sell yourself for a higher salary based on your experience (and of course the company will probably pay you as little as they can get away with regardless of your skills.)
posted by Shane at 12:31 PM on May 27, 2004
Otherwise you would have to wait to be hired "full time" by the company, and then sell yourself for a higher salary based on your experience (and of course the company will probably pay you as little as they can get away with regardless of your skills.)
posted by Shane at 12:31 PM on May 27, 2004
What bingo says about attitudes depending on the agency is true to a point. I have some experience working at a "classy" boutique agency (I went in for the tests, and wound up administering them). An agency knows when it's found a talented worker, and most of them are happy to pay as little as possible for that talent. The fact that you know what a PivotTable does make you a skilled temp (most people are very stupid and they have no idea how to put the numbers into the television screen). And you better believe an agency is making a profit off of your skills.
The first thing to do is evaluate the situation at the office where you're working. Are the people sympatico? Do they recognize how much they've come to rely on your skills? Has there been any mention of a permanent position? Do you have a friendly relationship with your managers? You want to enlist as much support as possible from the people you work with everyday. If there is a possiblity of a permanent position at the office, now is the time ask about it seriously (but you don't ever want to seem like you're pressuring them).
If you are working through an agency, and you have a good working relationship with them, you could ask them for a raise or a new assignment. But don't expect to get anything. Most likely they'll just give you some hogwash that you're getting paid the agency's highest rate. Or they'll mention something about market rates for Excel work. (Collusion alert; paging Eliot Spitzer.) Bingo's dead-on about the client relationship, too. Even in the best agencies, workers are viewed as little more than an expense.
Another alternative for agency temps is to work as a freelancer. Offices hire agency temps to avoid the high cost of benefits and unemployment insurance, and agencies make money by charging the office a fee above your hourly rate. What you might consider a decent raise could still come in under the rate the agency is charging - even after you account for the added tax burden that freelancers face. The agency probably has a contract with the office, so this option wouldn't be feasible for an immediate raise.
posted by eatitlive at 12:43 PM on May 27, 2004
The first thing to do is evaluate the situation at the office where you're working. Are the people sympatico? Do they recognize how much they've come to rely on your skills? Has there been any mention of a permanent position? Do you have a friendly relationship with your managers? You want to enlist as much support as possible from the people you work with everyday. If there is a possiblity of a permanent position at the office, now is the time ask about it seriously (but you don't ever want to seem like you're pressuring them).
If you are working through an agency, and you have a good working relationship with them, you could ask them for a raise or a new assignment. But don't expect to get anything. Most likely they'll just give you some hogwash that you're getting paid the agency's highest rate. Or they'll mention something about market rates for Excel work. (Collusion alert; paging Eliot Spitzer.) Bingo's dead-on about the client relationship, too. Even in the best agencies, workers are viewed as little more than an expense.
Another alternative for agency temps is to work as a freelancer. Offices hire agency temps to avoid the high cost of benefits and unemployment insurance, and agencies make money by charging the office a fee above your hourly rate. What you might consider a decent raise could still come in under the rate the agency is charging - even after you account for the added tax burden that freelancers face. The agency probably has a contract with the office, so this option wouldn't be feasible for an immediate raise.
posted by eatitlive at 12:43 PM on May 27, 2004
Excel is not a "skill". The number of people about to enter the job market with school or college "qualifications" in "IT" (that is, MS Office) is astounding. The fact that you can use Excel does not entitle you to more money than any other office monkey.
posted by reklaw at 1:37 PM on May 27, 2004
posted by reklaw at 1:37 PM on May 27, 2004
Response by poster: Thanks for the perspectives! I find this all very useful.
I'm not really looking for justification in getting a raise; my responsibilites have changed quite a bit since I started here. Then I was simply answering phones and typing (and a leeeetle bit of Excel); recently the Excel Guy went back to Australia, and now I'm going to be doing his work.
Anyone have a number I can wrap my head around? 'Cause I get the feeling they(my agency)'re going to ask me for one.
posted by skryche at 2:32 PM on May 27, 2004
I'm not really looking for justification in getting a raise; my responsibilites have changed quite a bit since I started here. Then I was simply answering phones and typing (and a leeeetle bit of Excel); recently the Excel Guy went back to Australia, and now I'm going to be doing his work.
Anyone have a number I can wrap my head around? 'Cause I get the feeling they(my agency)'re going to ask me for one.
posted by skryche at 2:32 PM on May 27, 2004
Excel is not a "skill".
Well, it is if everyone else in the office throws their hands up in despair over the prospect of making a pivot table.
Where I come from, this level of Excel familiarity is something everyone knows. But if your office is different, and you are going to start providing more value to them, then yes, you have a case for a raise. I wouldn't try to break the bank on them. In fact, I would simply keep the Excel thing as a nice feather in your cap and use it as one example of why you're an excellent, resouceful employee who delivers the goods, and worth a few extra bucks to keep around.
In other words, don't ask yourself: "How much does an Excel guy make?" Ask yourself: "How much of a raise do I deserve if I take on these additional duties?" If you want to talk specific numbers, I'm afraid you're going to have to tell us exactly what they're paying you now, and what you do, and for whom.
posted by scarabic at 4:03 PM on May 27, 2004
Well, it is if everyone else in the office throws their hands up in despair over the prospect of making a pivot table.
Where I come from, this level of Excel familiarity is something everyone knows. But if your office is different, and you are going to start providing more value to them, then yes, you have a case for a raise. I wouldn't try to break the bank on them. In fact, I would simply keep the Excel thing as a nice feather in your cap and use it as one example of why you're an excellent, resouceful employee who delivers the goods, and worth a few extra bucks to keep around.
In other words, don't ask yourself: "How much does an Excel guy make?" Ask yourself: "How much of a raise do I deserve if I take on these additional duties?" If you want to talk specific numbers, I'm afraid you're going to have to tell us exactly what they're paying you now, and what you do, and for whom.
posted by scarabic at 4:03 PM on May 27, 2004
Sorry, my brain farted over the fact that you're temping, but I think it works aboaut the same with one employer or several.
posted by scarabic at 4:06 PM on May 27, 2004
posted by scarabic at 4:06 PM on May 27, 2004
reklaw: I disagree dude. You'd be amazed by the number of MBAs / Accountants / pseudo-MCSE / M$ Mouse certification people I've filtered that couldn't "hack" (ahah yeah sure) a pivot table togheter, let alone understand where they live.
While Excel may not be a deal maker or breaker, if one wants to claim knowledge of Excel knowing Pivot is just a standard requirement, not "Advanced" at all (proficency with VBA I'd consider advanced excel usage)
posted by elpapacito at 3:46 AM on May 28, 2004
While Excel may not be a deal maker or breaker, if one wants to claim knowledge of Excel knowing Pivot is just a standard requirement, not "Advanced" at all (proficency with VBA I'd consider advanced excel usage)
posted by elpapacito at 3:46 AM on May 28, 2004
FYI, I'm looking for a new job and signed (back) up with a local temp agency two days ago. I typed 60 words/minute (with two fingers; pitiful!) and was able to do simple Excel macros and fill an address and phone number into Access, and they think I AM GOD! LOL.
skryche, if you have killer excel skills, then push your advantage. Just be aware that your company and the temp agency will be skinflint bastards.
Also, there's this problem when you are underpaid and overskilled w/ an employer for a while, that the company tends to take you for granted and think they can get away with it forever. I personally think of it as the "mule" syndrome. If they decide you are a beast of burden, they pile on the work without compensation and treat you like an ass forever. I'm stuck right there now, in fact.
posted by Shane at 7:22 AM on May 28, 2004
skryche, if you have killer excel skills, then push your advantage. Just be aware that your company and the temp agency will be skinflint bastards.
Also, there's this problem when you are underpaid and overskilled w/ an employer for a while, that the company tends to take you for granted and think they can get away with it forever. I personally think of it as the "mule" syndrome. If they decide you are a beast of burden, they pile on the work without compensation and treat you like an ass forever. I'm stuck right there now, in fact.
posted by Shane at 7:22 AM on May 28, 2004
If you're temping for an agency, I'm not sure the agency is going to go to their client and ask for more money for the assignment
A good agency will go to the client, but first you have to determine if you're getting as much as you want out of the agency. They are probably getting almost twice what they pay you from the client; you have to negotiate for a fair rate from them as well.
You should be getting at least $17/hr.
In NYC, a decent admin asst can get more than this. It all depends on the type of company it is (eg, if it's wall street / high power, they won't blink if you ask for $5 more than you think you should get) and how good you are/how much they like you. I've worked in the past as an admin temp and as a graphic design temp. As an admin I usually got $16-$18/hr; as a designer $22-30, so I guess I'd say an excel expert would get in between - $18-22. But I have really no idea if that's what the current market would go for, or if excel counts as separate from admin work (I did very basic excel stuff in admin work, but it sounds as if you're talking about more complicated stuff - I never learned to use excel, but assumed I could pick up the basics if necessary, and was able to fulfill the duties of "basic excel" by NYC admin standards after fiddling with the program on my own a bit).
Anyway. that's my input.
posted by mdn at 10:42 AM on May 28, 2004
A good agency will go to the client, but first you have to determine if you're getting as much as you want out of the agency. They are probably getting almost twice what they pay you from the client; you have to negotiate for a fair rate from them as well.
You should be getting at least $17/hr.
In NYC, a decent admin asst can get more than this. It all depends on the type of company it is (eg, if it's wall street / high power, they won't blink if you ask for $5 more than you think you should get) and how good you are/how much they like you. I've worked in the past as an admin temp and as a graphic design temp. As an admin I usually got $16-$18/hr; as a designer $22-30, so I guess I'd say an excel expert would get in between - $18-22. But I have really no idea if that's what the current market would go for, or if excel counts as separate from admin work (I did very basic excel stuff in admin work, but it sounds as if you're talking about more complicated stuff - I never learned to use excel, but assumed I could pick up the basics if necessary, and was able to fulfill the duties of "basic excel" by NYC admin standards after fiddling with the program on my own a bit).
Anyway. that's my input.
posted by mdn at 10:42 AM on May 28, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by shinnin at 9:18 AM on May 27, 2004