Keep Out!

April 2, 2007 10:48 AM

How to keep trespassers off our city property while maintaining a neighborly feel?

For the fifth time in about a year, we've noticed trespassers on our property. Three of those occasions have been after dark, and were 1-3 young men at a time (late 20s, early 30s, not kids of neighbors). One was a middle-aged woman nosing around at dusk behind the most set-back structure on the lot. The fifth resulted in some outdoor stuff stolen. Usually we confront these people and they say, "Oh, I just thought there was a way through to such-n-such street" and we tell them there isn't, it's private property and please leave. We have called the police for two of these instances, but the trespassers had moved on by the time they arrived. Also, I assume if we've noticed five instances, that there probably have been more.

It is clearly a private house, but we are in a very urban area with a large & curious (or tempting) property line. Except for the driveway itself, the entire perimeter has a 4' fence, but primarily for looks and property line demarcation, not as a response to vandalism or theft. We currently have a wireless beeper signaling entrance on the driveway, motion detector lights, a deer cam on the "back 40" that we can't see from the house, and a very strong house alarm. I'm now considering a driveway gate, though I don't like the feel that creates in what is a very friendly neighborhood. Suggestions? What else should we/could we be doing to reduce the trespassing?

posted by cocoagirl to home & garden (29 comments total)

I had to read this very carefully multiple times to realize you mean "property in the city" not "city property".

Something is attracting these people. Either they really think there is a way through (in which case block it, either physically or psychologically) or they want to get a closer look at something on the property (in which case remove or disguise it). Without seeing your property it's hard to be more specific.
posted by DU at 10:57 AM on April 2, 2007

Motion activated sprinklers?
posted by LarryC at 11:21 AM on April 2, 2007 [3 favorites]

Motion activated sprinklers are the bomb. I'd put up a couple warning signs just before people get into range, just to be nice.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:24 AM on April 2, 2007

Put up "Private Property" and/or "No Trespassing" and/or "Warning: Guard Dog" signs? I like the motion-activated sprinkler idea.
posted by rtha at 11:27 AM on April 2, 2007

It seems like the problem is that you have some kind of entrance to your property that is possibly genuinely being mistaken for a public access way. Is that right?

If so, perhaps you could put up a nice sign clearly indicating that yours is a private residence. Something like a wooden sign with your surname on it, e.g. "The Johnson Residence" or a set of large house numbers, perhaps even a funny sign, e.g. "This house guarded by the Chicago Bears." In short a sign that people would naturally expect to see at the entrance to a private property. These kinds of signs are more subtle then big "Private Property" signs and less likely to disturb the neighborly atmosphere that you seem to cherish.

Further, is the surface of the driveway the same as the surface of the side walk? That is, are they both gray cement? Perhaps you could tile, paint or otherwise resurface your driveway to differentiate it from the public paved sidewalk. Certainly if you had a nice brick driveway, or one surfaced with large colorful flagstones, very few people could honestly say that they mistook it for an access road.
posted by oddman at 11:38 AM on April 2, 2007

One possible problem with motion-activated sprinklers is that it potentially pisses people off. Then you have pissed off people on your property, and now rather than just having sex they might want to get back at you.

...not saying it will happen, but it's an outcome I can envision.
posted by aramaic at 11:38 AM on April 2, 2007

Where are they coming in? Are they hopping the fence or are they walking up the driveway?

If they're walking up the driveway, just put tasteful 'No Trespassing / Beware of Dog / Warning: Motion-Activated Security Systems' signs at knee level, facing upwards at 45 degrees, that aren't glaringly apparent if you're just walking by but you would have to trip over. We made them out of wood, and painted the whole sign black and then painted the letters on with 3m retroreflective paint, the same kind of stuff that they do street signs and crosswalks with. It practically glows in the dark. We scattered a few more of the signs on the far side of the fence in different areas where it was possible to enter the yard.

And yes, 'beware of dog' even if you don't have a dog. If people hang out and watch your place long enough to figure out that you don't have a dog, then you have a larger problem with people actively looking to burglarize your place a'la'"Home Alone"... and dogs scare the bejeezus out of most casual crooks.

Our favorite trick out of all the ones we used to protect the particular residence I'm thinking of was 'channeling'. We planted thick, itchy hedges along most of the fence, and left only a few places where you could hop the fence and not land in something really uncomfortable. These areas had signs -- 'No Trespassing' right on the other side of the fence, 'beware of dog' was visible next, and right after the person would see the 'motion sensitive security systems' sign, they would get spotlighted by a motion-light on a pole. Generally, people went back over the fence at that point. It took the people that were sneaking onto the heavily wooded (for an inner city lot) property to do drugs about a week to figure out that it was a bad idea now -- for that week, the neighbors liked to sit out on their roof with laser pointers and really freak people out when they triggered the spotlights.
posted by SpecialK at 11:38 AM on April 2, 2007

Do I understand correctly, that to enter your property, a person has to either walk up your driveway or scale a four-foot fence? If that's the case, they know they're trespassing. Put some of rtha's signs on the fence at places you think they are coming in, and at the end of the driveway. Posting something about "silent alarms" and calling the police might help, too. Do the motion-sensing lights illuminate the back of the property, or just around the house? Might want to add some.

Sorry if that ruins the neighborhood feel.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:43 AM on April 2, 2007

Or use SpecialK's all-inclusive system. You could have one of those doberman-on-tape devices set to sound shortly after the lights go on.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:47 AM on April 2, 2007

Do you suspect trespassers are hopping over the fence? If so, a rosebush hedge is a marvelously pretty and quick-growing way to discourage that sort of thing. You could also extend your boundary fencing a few feet up both sides of your driveway.

Regarding a driveway gate: if you install it a few feet away from the property line (in other words, closer to your house rather than right at the sidewalk), it will not look as un-neighborly and will also give you a turn-in to get most of your car out of the way of street traffic while the gate is opening.
posted by jamaro at 11:49 AM on April 2, 2007

Forget "beware of dog."

Get a dog. Doberman or German Shepherd. One of both would be even better.

Invisible fence technology should work nicely for keeping him on the property and trespassers off.
posted by allkindsoftime at 12:05 PM on April 2, 2007

Do you really object to people being on your property, or to people stealing things or damaging things on your property.

There is a difference, and your approach to the problem should be different in each case.

Someone said you should remove or disguise things that someone might want to steal, which is a way to discourage the theft, not so much the presence on your property.

Discouraging someone's presence is covered by the prickly hedges and the driveway gates and all that.

I don't know where you are philosophically on this issue, but it's a shame that people assume anyone that is present on private property means harm.
posted by zhivota at 12:43 PM on April 2, 2007

I don't know where you are philosophically on this issue, but it's a shame that people assume anyone that is present on private property means harm.

Let me point out the logical fallacy: For what reason would anyone be snooping around in a fenced yard where they have no reason to be, unless they mean harm? And by harm I do also define shooting up and leaving the syringe behind for me to clean out of the bushes (or worse, run over with the mower), or leaving dirty used condoms around, or any one of a half dozen other things that aren't "harm" but are nuisances.
posted by SpecialK at 12:52 PM on April 2, 2007

If people are just casually wandering in then you might only need a psychological barrier, such as painting a line or two across the mouth off the drive (particularly if it's wide and not clearly defined). Sometimes just making a boundary clear makes people stop and think.
posted by malevolent at 1:01 PM on April 2, 2007

As for the entrance being mistaken for public access, I don't think it is. The public sidewalk is brick cobblestone and our driveway is gravel. Our fence goes right to the edges of the drive and has house numbers on it. The sidewalk is well lit. Our property has a few different grades and buildings and, to me, doesn't look like a sidewalk or street at all. I think all the people we've caught have been there with bad intentions, either to case our house or garage, or to scope out the apartment buildings that abut us for access. We have very little of interest outdoors (some soccer balls, a car, a few lawn chairs). The car has a visible alarm and is right next to the house. These people are making their way further back and farther in.

Also, I’m generally willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there’s something about the people we’ve encountered – they’re not friendly or apologetic in a way I’d be if I were in their shoes. They don’t make eye contact and they shift gears very quickly to getting off the property with a minimum of interaction. Even the woman I mentioned in the original post said she wanted somewhere quiet to walk her dog without having to pick up. WTF? No thanks.

Unfortunately, raising the current fencing at the driveway is not possible since we are governed by historic district laws that prohibit anything higher than 4', though we might be able to go higher on the sides and back. And I like the pricker-bush ideas.

We currently have a sprinkler system so the motion-activated method might work. I'd want to make sure we weren't wasting hundreds of gallons of water just to annoy our many birds and squirrels. I'm not at all concerned about irritating trespassers with the sprinklers, I'm interested in keeping potential burglars out or, barring that, letting them know that we're not sitting ducks and are aware of their movements.

Our motion-sensing lights don’t go all the way to the edge of the property, but it was one such light on the garage that alerted us last night. I think we could use more of these. Good point. The front of the house and porches are lit full-time at night.

Dogs. I know that's a reasonable suggestion, but I find I'm really unwilling. The yappy dogs that would alert us are, er…yappy. The big dogs that might guard us well probably would not integrate well into our family of toddlers. And none of us has the time or inclination to train or care for a dog in the way it should be.

It looks like signage and additional, more annoying lights are the way to go for now. We actually have lots of lasers around the house and I bet I could get DH to rig a horizontal beam that goes on between, say, 9pm-5am if someone crosses the drive beyond a certain point. Unless you’re Vincent Cassel, you might think twice about continuing. And if you are Vincent Cassel, you can come right in.

DU, yes, sorry, that was misleading. Just trying to connote that it wasn't a large farm, for instance.
posted by cocoagirl at 1:11 PM on April 2, 2007

It sounds like the driveway gate might be necessary, at least so that anyone found in your yard CLEARLY has no reason to be there. That should keep out the crazy dog-ladies.

As for prickly hedges, consider putting them on the outside of the fence, by the street, if you can. That way, they might work as a deterrent.

Look around and see what neighbors with similar houses have done regarding this problem. Remember, you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the other hikers.
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 1:57 PM on April 2, 2007

We have had the same problem. Planting rosa rugosa hedges inside the fenceline has helped. You can easily hop over a 4' fence, but a 4' fence backed by a 4' set of rose bushes is another thing entirely. There are plenty of places online that sell hedge roses in bulk. A bonus is that they look decorative, rather than threatening or paranoid, to your neighbors.

Planting similarly thorny plants under windows discourages casual poking around, too. (If you have toddlers, pay some attention to plant varieties, to avoid yummy-looking buy poisonous varieties of plants.) Once you know where they are coming from, you can concentrate lights and signage at those locations.

You need to figure out how people are getting back in there -- are they coming through the driveway, hopping your fence, or crossing over from another person's property?
posted by Forktine at 2:11 PM on April 2, 2007

You need to add pointy things onto the top of your fence or plant pointy things where someone will have to go through them to get onto your property. A dog would be good, even the type of dog that would be suitable to have around small children. You mainly need to encourage these people to pick a different spot, so the more you can do to make your property unattractive to those sneaking around, the better.

A gate would probably help discourage people from entering. It sounds like they know they are tresspassing already, so a sign is not going to do any good. It won't look as friendly, but looking friendly seems to have gotten you a bunch of uninvited friends. You can set the gate back from the road a bit, and keep it open when you are around during the day.
posted by yohko at 2:35 PM on April 2, 2007

Please do not use signage. However effective it may be, it is letting everyone know that you think that the area you live in is unsafe. This is a message received by not only the 'bad guys' but by your neighbors and to anyone who is an invited guest.

It's hard to offer advice without knowing the context of your property within it's place in the city. It's also easy to say 'slap on a bunch of lighting, cameras, or even sound alarms.' Due to the historical guidelines in your area, you have to ask if it is really appropriate? I hate walking down some of the nicest historical areas in my city only to see one house with a large fence in the front yard and cameras mounted on the corners of the building. There are gorgeous places in urban areas ruined by lack of consideration to context. The ultimate goal should be to preserve the urban fabric in your area.

I'm not clear if your concern is that people are getting in to your back yard or that they are on your property in general. You have to ask if it is such a big deal that someone goes in to your front yard. There are excellent ways to create 'barriers' on the sides of your house without disturbing the streetscape by using fences and shrubs.

It's hard for me to give conclusive advice without getting passed my personal bias for consideration to context. If you think whatever solution you choose sends out a negative message about the neighborhood you live in; it does. That would be my biggest concern for your project.
posted by comatose at 5:09 PM on April 2, 2007

If someone's jumping a four-foot fence, it's safe to assume they have bad intentions, especially if the fence is posted.

There are systems that sound a chime when someone crosses an invisible beam across the driveway (like the ones in store doorways). It should be easy to set one up that's audible outside as well as inside the house. That would put people coming in that way on notice that they've been noticed.

I understand that you don't want a dog. There are other systems for inside dwellings that activate when someone approaches, and trigger a German Shepherd barking. The barking increases in intensity with the intruder's proximity. I'd think you could have something like that, with the triggering sensor at the back of your property, and the "dog" in one of the outbuildings.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:15 PM on April 2, 2007

Get a dog. Doberman or German Shepherd. One of both would be even better.

Invisible fence technology should work nicely for keeping him on the property and trespassers off.

No, please don't get a dog (especially not one of these breeds) for this reason. This is a terrible suggestion.
posted by biscotti at 5:21 PM on April 2, 2007

If you haven't already, consider having a conversation with the Historic District Association folks about this. They may have advice to offer, and since they have a vested interest (presumably) in keeping the historic neighborhood "nice", they may also be willing to have a discussion with the police at your local precinct (you might want to do this, too) - not in a "hey, post a squad car on every corner!" kind of way, but in a more collaborative, informative, let's-solve-this-together kind of way.
posted by rtha at 5:48 PM on April 2, 2007

Thanks for all the responses. I think rtha's suggestion about talking with the HDA is a good one. I think we will also talk with the management companies of the abutting buildings to let them know what's happening and to see if a collaborative approach makes sense. Frankly I think the apartments make easier targets from our property than our house does, so it makes sense to involve them. Lights and signage at the back of the property will not affect the aesthetics.

Comatose's first paragraph gets at my reluctance to install a gate, and even to use signs. Ours would be one of the only houses on the street with these elements and I think it does send a message. However, I disagree that 'the ultimate goal should be preserving the urban fabric' in my area. My ultimate goal is to make sure I don't encounter three men in my yard late at night, out of earshot of the street, as I take out the garbage. It is a big deal if someone is in my front yard, as there is already a prominent fence. And like I said, these folks have almost all been adult men after dark. I'm not talking about people drifting onto the grass to take a photo of the house, or chasing off kids & teens. Hell, even the neighborhood kids knocked and asked politely the first few times to retrieve balls they hit over the fence. Yes, the least alarmist way to resolve things would be to say, "Can I help you?" but I've lived in cities long enough to know that a lone woman after dark is more likely to end up with the short end of that stick regardless of where the property line is.
posted by cocoagirl at 8:17 PM on April 2, 2007

Your profile says you're in Cambridge, MA. If that's still the case, you might want to go through this process with CPD - http://www.cambridgepolice.org/rss.html. They can probably give you a lot of good advice and certainly any suggestions they make will be legal (being a former Cantabridgian, some of the above suggestions sound like they might make some people unhappy).

If your neighborhood is near one of the universities, you might want to also speak with their police departments.

I lived in a similar sounding building in the Inman Square area and we had a standard ADT alarm that included external perimeter alerts, as well as a little fob you can carry. If you're really concerned about the taking the trash out scenario, a panic button might be a good way of allaying your fears.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:47 PM on April 2, 2007

Geese perhaps, instead of dogs, signs, thorns or expensive electronic systems.
posted by ponystyle at 2:09 AM on April 3, 2007

Geese poop everywhere.
posted by Richard Daly at 7:54 PM on April 3, 2007

Some personal observations
If you put up a sign at the drive entrance stating "The Johnson Residence" and whilst the house is un occupied wanderers / strangers are questioned by the police the phrase "Mr / Mrs Johnson asked us to ...[stupid excuse using name seen on drive entrance] ..." is used as an reason for trespass. Police then check the phone book, find house ocupied by Johnson, case closed. Itinerant wanders off never to be traced again.

Secondly, spikes on top of a 4 ft high fence are a bad idea. A person tripping and falling on the public street could fall upon them, or reach out to the fence to support themselves, or a child jumping over the fence to retrieve ball lands on them. Result - injury - why - you put a hazard where it could cause danger. Result - liability. However. A decorative hedge / bush / border plant that happens to be thorny is different. This injury is then caused by " ... and unfortunate interaction with nature ... " Result - no liability.

Lastly, ensure signs can be read. A sign in an unlit area needs bigger typeface / font than one lit by street lights. If you have stret lights or motion sensor lights ensure the sign is not in shadow. For example if the suspect moves onto your property, trips the motion light, is the potential location for the sign back lit? If so it will not be legible. [Possible defence in court]. If you are installing new lights is it possible to install a "panic switch" that turns on ALL lights on the property? This would mean that if you chose to react to an intrusion the whole area would be lit. Thus instead of some one shouting from behind the motion light you would be a person in a well light environment. This would also enable a video record to be made of interaction. [A mobile phone in the top pocket is useful]
posted by bobsearle at 5:21 AM on April 4, 2007

You have to ask if it is such a big deal that someone goes in to your front yard.

I don't understand this, given the description of the yard (fenced-in, obviously private, sounds like it has some depth) and the people (adults, not kids chasing after their balls, not over-enthusiastic tourists).

I can think of cases where it would be a deal I'd care about (ranging from criminal activity to nuisance cases mentioned above), but I can't think of any cases where I'd just come out of my house and see some guy in my yard and just nod hello and go back inside.
posted by mikepop at 8:00 AM on April 4, 2007

Make sure that there are appropriate Dead End, Private Drive or No Exit signs. Motion activated lights or sprinklers and rose or other bushes are also good ideas. For security, nosy neighbors work well. Talk to your neighbors about your security concerns, and they will be more likely to question interlopers. Also, friendly neighbors who look out for one another can be a great way to live. I miss the old lady who used to live across the street for many reasons.
posted by theora55 at 2:34 PM on April 8, 2007