It's all a bunch of fun and games until....
March 10, 2007 6:23 PM Subscribe
Question about copyrights, and small clips of music. How much can I use without causing trouble?
I made a "name that tune" kind of game for a website that I frequent. It's an MP3 file made of about 20 small clips of popular music. Clips range from 2 seconds to 10 seconds in length and they're edited together in one MP3. Members have to listen and name all the songs.
I've made a lot of them and was thinking of maybe starting a website and offering them - for free of course - to anyone who wants to download and play them.
The songs are from the 60's to present and by artists like Billy Joel, Elton John, The Police, etc.
So my questions are;
Would I get "in trouble" for posting those clips for public consumption?
If so, what kind of trouble?
Would I have to pay royalties to these artists to use their clips?
Can I just do it anyway and shut it down when/if I 'get caught'?
And if I 'get caught' will taking it down suffice or will I have to pay some penalties?
Finally, is there a limit to how much of a song I can use legally? What is that limit?
The members are really enjoying them and they're a lot of fun to play and I'd just like to share them with others who love games and music, but I don't want any trouble.
Thanks in advance Hive Mind.
I made a "name that tune" kind of game for a website that I frequent. It's an MP3 file made of about 20 small clips of popular music. Clips range from 2 seconds to 10 seconds in length and they're edited together in one MP3. Members have to listen and name all the songs.
I've made a lot of them and was thinking of maybe starting a website and offering them - for free of course - to anyone who wants to download and play them.
The songs are from the 60's to present and by artists like Billy Joel, Elton John, The Police, etc.
So my questions are;
Would I get "in trouble" for posting those clips for public consumption?
If so, what kind of trouble?
Would I have to pay royalties to these artists to use their clips?
Can I just do it anyway and shut it down when/if I 'get caught'?
And if I 'get caught' will taking it down suffice or will I have to pay some penalties?
Finally, is there a limit to how much of a song I can use legally? What is that limit?
The members are really enjoying them and they're a lot of fun to play and I'd just like to share them with others who love games and music, but I don't want any trouble.
Thanks in advance Hive Mind.
The applicable area of copyright law here is "fair use".
IANAL either, but I'd say go for it (so long as it's not for-profit). At worst, you'll get a cease-and-desist from somebody.
posted by neckro23 at 7:15 PM on March 10, 2007
IANAL either, but I'd say go for it (so long as it's not for-profit). At worst, you'll get a cease-and-desist from somebody.
posted by neckro23 at 7:15 PM on March 10, 2007
Just recently saw someone with clips on their site, and they said that they cut them off at 29 seconds. I'm not sure whether the reasoning was arbitrary or there was some sort of precedent that suggested they'd be okay with that.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:37 PM on March 10, 2007
posted by exlotuseater at 7:37 PM on March 10, 2007
The two main "fair use" provisions that usually govern this kind of thing are parody and commentary. In other words, you can borrow a small section of someone else's work if you're making fun of them, or if you're writing a serious review of their work.
In this case you arguably aren't doing either, so you're skating right on the ragged edge of fair use.
That said, it isn't likely that you're going to get into trouble over it. As Neckro23 says, about the worst that could happen is that you'll get C&D'ed, if in fact you're not making any money off this. (If you are making a considerable amount of money off of it, you might get sued.)
Also keep in mind that when it comes to copyright law, the "golden rule" applies: he who has the gold makes the rules. Irrespective of the law, those whose copyrights you (maybe) are infringing have a lot more money for lawyers than you do. So as long as they don't notice you, you'll probably be OK. If they do notice you, you're probably SOL if they feel like going for the jugular.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 7:40 PM on March 10, 2007
In this case you arguably aren't doing either, so you're skating right on the ragged edge of fair use.
That said, it isn't likely that you're going to get into trouble over it. As Neckro23 says, about the worst that could happen is that you'll get C&D'ed, if in fact you're not making any money off this. (If you are making a considerable amount of money off of it, you might get sued.)
Also keep in mind that when it comes to copyright law, the "golden rule" applies: he who has the gold makes the rules. Irrespective of the law, those whose copyrights you (maybe) are infringing have a lot more money for lawyers than you do. So as long as they don't notice you, you'll probably be OK. If they do notice you, you're probably SOL if they feel like going for the jugular.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 7:40 PM on March 10, 2007
Best answer: IANAL: But I thought I heard somewhere one can use up to 8 seconds.
posted by Kensational at 9:49 PM EST on March 10 [+]
[!]
Bzzt. Wrong.
Many people think that there is some arcane law saying that sampling is okay if it's only 3 seconds, or 5 seconds, or 8 seconds. This is not the case. Sampling is sampling is sampling, under the (letter of the) law. While some jurisdictions may have ruled otherwise, the general rule throughout most of the world is that any use that does not come under 'fair use' provisions is copyright infringement, and is therefore theoretically subject to legal action.
The reality of the situation, of course, is that there probably won't be any issue. You're giving them free advertising. Perhaps--and this is only spitballing--one way to help your case if/when any label comes down on you is this: somehow provide iTunes/eMusic/whatever links to each of the songs after the contest is over. Something along the lines of "Now that you've identified them, if you want to download them, go here." Or something. IANAL in any way, but it might help your case. ("Yes, $label, I used a bit of the song.. but I also showed people where to buy it, and it was just a silly quiz anyway...").
I think you would definitely absolutely have to ensure that you aren't making any money off it. Not even AdSense revenue. Once you're making money off it (and you're not within black-letter law about fair use), you're in for a world of legal hurt.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2007
posted by Kensational at 9:49 PM EST on March 10 [+]
[!]
Bzzt. Wrong.
Many people think that there is some arcane law saying that sampling is okay if it's only 3 seconds, or 5 seconds, or 8 seconds. This is not the case. Sampling is sampling is sampling, under the (letter of the) law. While some jurisdictions may have ruled otherwise, the general rule throughout most of the world is that any use that does not come under 'fair use' provisions is copyright infringement, and is therefore theoretically subject to legal action.
The reality of the situation, of course, is that there probably won't be any issue. You're giving them free advertising. Perhaps--and this is only spitballing--one way to help your case if/when any label comes down on you is this: somehow provide iTunes/eMusic/whatever links to each of the songs after the contest is over. Something along the lines of "Now that you've identified them, if you want to download them, go here." Or something. IANAL in any way, but it might help your case. ("Yes, $label, I used a bit of the song.. but I also showed people where to buy it, and it was just a silly quiz anyway...").
I think you would definitely absolutely have to ensure that you aren't making any money off it. Not even AdSense revenue. Once you're making money off it (and you're not within black-letter law about fair use), you're in for a world of legal hurt.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2007
Aside from the rather dire predition about a "world of legal hurt," DNAB is exactly correct. The hurt is real and possible, but not probable. Though I would append that with the fact that I am not a lawyer and I am not giving you real legal advice, just advice based on the number of MP3 blogs out there.
posted by klangklangston at 9:04 AM on March 11, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 9:04 AM on March 11, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks for the information everyone, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer.
And no, I wouldn't be making ANY money from this at all, just thinking of putting up a fun games site for people to enjoy.
posted by NoraCharles at 11:53 AM on March 11, 2007
And no, I wouldn't be making ANY money from this at all, just thinking of putting up a fun games site for people to enjoy.
posted by NoraCharles at 11:53 AM on March 11, 2007
slightly OT but....so...now i kind of want to play this game...
posted by mittenedsex at 6:07 PM on March 13, 2007
posted by mittenedsex at 6:07 PM on March 13, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Kensational at 6:49 PM on March 10, 2007