please cure a hopeless flutterpants.
January 16, 2007 8:19 AM Subscribe
I wish to woo. I want to woo. Will you waft to me wooing words of wisdom?
I like a boy. so. very. much.
He's beautiful, and so smart, and genuinely interesting, and makes me laugh. I really respect and admire what he does for a living and what he's had to accomplish to get there. We have a lot in common, I think, and the areas that we differ are complementary, and mostly serve to make our conversations more engrossing. And he's so effing hott. Like seriously hott.
When I think of him I feel like I'm in grade 8 again. My heart gets achy and my belly gets fluttery and my spine gets tingly and I can't help but smile. Something might happen in the pantsal region, as well. When I see him I just want to kiss him. I really, really like him.
Obstacle 1 is that we have been seeing each other very casually since last spring and have been sleeping together. (Don't give me shit about falling for casual lovers, please! I have had other lovers I didn't feel emotionally intimate with. This boy is special.) Our sex is really good - we have great chemistry and a similar attitude/likes/dislikes in the boudoir. We've also become friends and have talked about personal stuff together a lot. But I think most people don't believe you can build a relationship out of this kind of arrangement. I'm unsure of how to pull this off, when previously I was only interested in having a physical thing. I feel a bit like I'm trying to pull a bait and switch. But I'm not. I just happened to get to know him and realise how amazing he is. But I don't know how to show him without making a fool of myself.
Obstacle 2 is that he has anxiety problems. He can be kind of skittish, and if he's uncomfortable somewhere he'll bolt. I understand this because I experienced the same in my past, but I'm not used to being on the other side of the equation. I want him to feel at ease around me. I don't want to freak him out.
The worst part is, I'm terrified. I have very bad luck in love. I've been alone far too long, and the occasional crushes I've had in that time have not worked out. I do like myself - really - but I feel at this point like my interest in someone is just going to make him run for the hills screaming. And I'm scared that if I express my feelings for this guy, he will be horrified and we will lose what we have now. I know it sounds stupid, but it's how I feel.
Should I ask him out on a date? Should I just let him figure it out? Metafilter, please help me!
I like a boy. so. very. much.
He's beautiful, and so smart, and genuinely interesting, and makes me laugh. I really respect and admire what he does for a living and what he's had to accomplish to get there. We have a lot in common, I think, and the areas that we differ are complementary, and mostly serve to make our conversations more engrossing. And he's so effing hott. Like seriously hott.
When I think of him I feel like I'm in grade 8 again. My heart gets achy and my belly gets fluttery and my spine gets tingly and I can't help but smile. Something might happen in the pantsal region, as well. When I see him I just want to kiss him. I really, really like him.
Obstacle 1 is that we have been seeing each other very casually since last spring and have been sleeping together. (Don't give me shit about falling for casual lovers, please! I have had other lovers I didn't feel emotionally intimate with. This boy is special.) Our sex is really good - we have great chemistry and a similar attitude/likes/dislikes in the boudoir. We've also become friends and have talked about personal stuff together a lot. But I think most people don't believe you can build a relationship out of this kind of arrangement. I'm unsure of how to pull this off, when previously I was only interested in having a physical thing. I feel a bit like I'm trying to pull a bait and switch. But I'm not. I just happened to get to know him and realise how amazing he is. But I don't know how to show him without making a fool of myself.
Obstacle 2 is that he has anxiety problems. He can be kind of skittish, and if he's uncomfortable somewhere he'll bolt. I understand this because I experienced the same in my past, but I'm not used to being on the other side of the equation. I want him to feel at ease around me. I don't want to freak him out.
The worst part is, I'm terrified. I have very bad luck in love. I've been alone far too long, and the occasional crushes I've had in that time have not worked out. I do like myself - really - but I feel at this point like my interest in someone is just going to make him run for the hills screaming. And I'm scared that if I express my feelings for this guy, he will be horrified and we will lose what we have now. I know it sounds stupid, but it's how I feel.
Should I ask him out on a date? Should I just let him figure it out? Metafilter, please help me!
And I'm scared that if I express my feelings for this guy, he will be horrified and we will lose what we have now.
Yeah, but at the same time you're manifestly not satisfied with what you've got now, so you need to realize that, sooner or later, it's gonna be time to fish or cut bait: you will lose what you've got now, and hopefully replace it with a more serious relationship.
Don't overthink it and don't over-plan it. I would just say, over a drink or when you're sitting on the couch or something, "I think I'm falling for you. Is that OK?" and take it from there. Probably don't do it when you're naked in bed, in case it doesn't go like you want.
posted by rkent at 8:26 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but at the same time you're manifestly not satisfied with what you've got now, so you need to realize that, sooner or later, it's gonna be time to fish or cut bait: you will lose what you've got now, and hopefully replace it with a more serious relationship.
Don't overthink it and don't over-plan it. I would just say, over a drink or when you're sitting on the couch or something, "I think I'm falling for you. Is that OK?" and take it from there. Probably don't do it when you're naked in bed, in case it doesn't go like you want.
posted by rkent at 8:26 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
You could see how he responds to: "You know, I think I'm really falling for you."
posted by croutonsupafreak at 8:31 AM on January 16, 2007
posted by croutonsupafreak at 8:31 AM on January 16, 2007
You're in the position of already having some of the trappings of a relationship without actually having the official "relationship". I think it's important to really think through what it is additionally that you're looking for, and, more importantly, what happens to what you already have if you don't get it. I agree with rkent when he says that at some point, you have to let go of what you have with the hope that you'll get what you really want. Don't let him use his anxiety problems, or his "baggage", or whatever, as an excuse to keep things from moving forward while keeping you in a holding pattern. You deserve a man who will buck up and act like an adult about things, whether or not he's interested in pursuing something more serious with you. I suppose the main point of this long paragraph is simple: if he shuts you down regarding the relationship you're after, have some dignity and stop sleeping with him.
As for how to tell him, I think the "I think I'm falling for you" thing at dinner or anywhere but the bedroom is a good idea.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:34 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
As for how to tell him, I think the "I think I'm falling for you" thing at dinner or anywhere but the bedroom is a good idea.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:34 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
Back in college I was seeing someone very casually. So casually, in fact, that neither of us acknowledged we were seeing each other. Just going out to a movie once a week or so. There was no sex, but there were infrequent necking sessions. We never mentioned romantic involvement.
Several months into this, I started feeling much the same as you describe. I wanted more from the relationship, but I wasn't sure about how to get it. So I decided to tell her one night. This went very badly. I was nervous, horny, scared etc. All the things you probably shouldn't be when something important is happening. I stammered for like twenty minutes to get it out. And when I finally did, it ended up like "I think I'm becoming attracted to you." Way to go Casanova.
After that night, subconsciously or otherwise we started drifting apart. I think I freaked her out, and rightly so.
So I guess my advice for this situation would be: if your would-be honey is prone to bolting, take things easy. Perhaps you could arrange slightly-more-frequent dates. Slowly ramp up your investment in the relationship, and watch and see if he does the same. Before long, you could find yourself in exactly the relationship you wanted, without any weirdness or freakouts.
Remember the frog on the hot plate. Just turn up the heat a little bit at a time.
posted by Shecky at 8:41 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
Several months into this, I started feeling much the same as you describe. I wanted more from the relationship, but I wasn't sure about how to get it. So I decided to tell her one night. This went very badly. I was nervous, horny, scared etc. All the things you probably shouldn't be when something important is happening. I stammered for like twenty minutes to get it out. And when I finally did, it ended up like "I think I'm becoming attracted to you." Way to go Casanova.
After that night, subconsciously or otherwise we started drifting apart. I think I freaked her out, and rightly so.
So I guess my advice for this situation would be: if your would-be honey is prone to bolting, take things easy. Perhaps you could arrange slightly-more-frequent dates. Slowly ramp up your investment in the relationship, and watch and see if he does the same. Before long, you could find yourself in exactly the relationship you wanted, without any weirdness or freakouts.
Remember the frog on the hot plate. Just turn up the heat a little bit at a time.
posted by Shecky at 8:41 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think, as a skittish guy, that if you just come out and tell him you might love him it could end up with him getting really scared and disappearing. What you need to do here is try and ease him into a relationship, tell him you would like to spend a bit more time with him casually, and do things like have dinner together and go out on occasion. Then work up the feelings part gradually, make sure he is comfortable with it.
I was TERRIFIED of relationships, and by the age of 24 had had numerous partners, but most of those only lasted for a week or two until I got scared (I needed time to grow up), then I met this girl, and we started out friends, got physical and then 2 years later we are still together, and I am like the king of boyfriends.
Just be very careful, and concentrate on having fun with him, dont worry about the other stuff, and it will happen.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:42 AM on January 16, 2007
I was TERRIFIED of relationships, and by the age of 24 had had numerous partners, but most of those only lasted for a week or two until I got scared (I needed time to grow up), then I met this girl, and we started out friends, got physical and then 2 years later we are still together, and I am like the king of boyfriends.
Just be very careful, and concentrate on having fun with him, dont worry about the other stuff, and it will happen.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:42 AM on January 16, 2007
You can even warn him in advance that you want to talk about your friendship. Call it that, because both of you probably agree that the term applies. And be very straightforward about it. I think "I'm falling for you" is too gooey considering that your relationship is already quite intimate in a matter-of-fact sort of way. Think about what you want:
exclusivity?
calling him "my boyfriend"?
going out as a couple on dates occassionally (dressing up for each other) instead of just getting together as friends?
doing something special for Valentine's Day?
Just tell him how you'd like things to change and see if he's interested in that. But if I were you I'd stay away from the "I'm in love with you" stuff. That will make him uncomfortable unless he feels just that way too, and if he does, it's better to let him say it first.
Good luck! It sounds like you really like him as a person, so even if you have to stop sleeping with him to protect your heart, he's someone who could be a good friend to you even if you don't have the relationship you're dreaming of.
posted by tk at 8:47 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
exclusivity?
calling him "my boyfriend"?
going out as a couple on dates occassionally (dressing up for each other) instead of just getting together as friends?
doing something special for Valentine's Day?
Just tell him how you'd like things to change and see if he's interested in that. But if I were you I'd stay away from the "I'm in love with you" stuff. That will make him uncomfortable unless he feels just that way too, and if he does, it's better to let him say it first.
Good luck! It sounds like you really like him as a person, so even if you have to stop sleeping with him to protect your heart, he's someone who could be a good friend to you even if you don't have the relationship you're dreaming of.
posted by tk at 8:47 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think you just have to do it, period. The option involving letting him figure it out is no good...as it will (likely) never happen. Meanwhile you will be continually pining away and unsatisfied with the status quo. When you guys started the casual sex thing did you have a previous conversation about any boundaries regarding what you were, or did it just happen? If your chemistry is as good as you think it is, I would say you already have a good chance of his reciprocation.
posted by Asherah at 8:51 AM on January 16, 2007
posted by Asherah at 8:51 AM on January 16, 2007
So what would happen if you cut out the sex? Would he still even be your friend? In that, I think you will find your answer.
posted by konolia at 9:01 AM on January 16, 2007
Second Bobby Digital's, with an addendum that I have been subject to this kind of transformation and it worked out well. Though we did wind up breaking up about 5 years later, it was for unrelated reasons.
Or maybe not, now that I think about it. Be sure not to get into a "cruising along seriously" type situation where you spend a lot of time together but the deeper mental and conversational aspects of a serious relationship remain fallow.
posted by rhizome at 9:05 AM on January 16, 2007
Or maybe not, now that I think about it. Be sure not to get into a "cruising along seriously" type situation where you spend a lot of time together but the deeper mental and conversational aspects of a serious relationship remain fallow.
posted by rhizome at 9:05 AM on January 16, 2007
Obstacle 2 is that he has anxiety problems
Does he have diagnosed anxiety problems? does he see a mental health professional? does he take medication or self medicates? how much of this mood disorder affects his every day life?
if this guy is suffering a mood disorder (and not using 'anxiety' as a cover to explain his inability to commit), then you're going to have an uphill battle. Your goal should be to not trigger him, to not set off his anxiety. And if this guy is willing to work on his disorder, to figure out his triggers and how to work around them. if he's willing to work, then you should be okay. if he isn't (and the fact that he's bolted so far in other areas of his life), that makes me thing he might not be ready to handle whatever it is that triggers him.
fearing the emotional intimacy that comes with a relationship is normal but it has consquences if you are unwilling to approach it. real anxiety disorders will interfer with this but it is something that can be worked around.
there's a risk with all things, especially love. if you are unwilling (and he is unwilling as well) to risk being in a more solid/ traditional relationship with each other, then I don't see how the relationship you desire can last for any kind of time.
posted by Stynxno at 9:10 AM on January 16, 2007
Does he have diagnosed anxiety problems? does he see a mental health professional? does he take medication or self medicates? how much of this mood disorder affects his every day life?
if this guy is suffering a mood disorder (and not using 'anxiety' as a cover to explain his inability to commit), then you're going to have an uphill battle. Your goal should be to not trigger him, to not set off his anxiety. And if this guy is willing to work on his disorder, to figure out his triggers and how to work around them. if he's willing to work, then you should be okay. if he isn't (and the fact that he's bolted so far in other areas of his life), that makes me thing he might not be ready to handle whatever it is that triggers him.
fearing the emotional intimacy that comes with a relationship is normal but it has consquences if you are unwilling to approach it. real anxiety disorders will interfer with this but it is something that can be worked around.
there's a risk with all things, especially love. if you are unwilling (and he is unwilling as well) to risk being in a more solid/ traditional relationship with each other, then I don't see how the relationship you desire can last for any kind of time.
posted by Stynxno at 9:10 AM on January 16, 2007
You're already giving most of yourself to him, in the intimate sense. You don't have much more than that to "woo" a guy with. I'm seconding the "what if you take away the sex" idea.
posted by allkindsoftime at 9:26 AM on January 16, 2007
posted by allkindsoftime at 9:26 AM on January 16, 2007
I also agree with BobbyDigital, also as being fairly skittish myself, the sudden declaration might well scare him off. Can you try and build up other areas where you do things together in the company of others/possibly without others if that is already established (ie step 1, gang do something, step 2, the 2 of you do similar thing). Stynxno's approach would be utterly unwelcome if what I think you mean by skittish is what you mean - you'd be better off telling him you love him and want to marry him today and make babies than offering to help him through supposed emotional problems.
posted by biffa at 9:29 AM on January 16, 2007
posted by biffa at 9:29 AM on January 16, 2007
The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. Figure out yours first, then figure out his, and then determine whether he is very good at speaking yours, and then decide about whether askings-out are really in order. Some of them conflict, but if you speak his language naturally, and he speaks yours effortlessly, you're gold.
posted by Quarter Pincher at 9:31 AM on January 16, 2007
posted by Quarter Pincher at 9:31 AM on January 16, 2007
But I think most people don't believe you can build a relationship out of this kind of arrangement. I'm unsure of how to pull this off, when previously I was only interested in having a physical thing.
Call me old-fashioned, but I'm not sure how you *wouldn't* build a relationship out of this kind of arrangement. You can say all you want about what the most important thing in a relationship is, but for many people a relationship starts with good sex. It certainly shouldn't be the *only* thing in a relationship, but it is an essential part of many relationships.
posted by Doohickie at 9:45 AM on January 16, 2007
Call me old-fashioned, but I'm not sure how you *wouldn't* build a relationship out of this kind of arrangement. You can say all you want about what the most important thing in a relationship is, but for many people a relationship starts with good sex. It certainly shouldn't be the *only* thing in a relationship, but it is an essential part of many relationships.
posted by Doohickie at 9:45 AM on January 16, 2007
Oh. But in answer to your question, you may ask where he sees himself in a year, five years, etc. Maybe he feels the same way about you and if you give him the proper forum, he may take the initiative and be the first to spill the beans.
posted by Doohickie at 9:48 AM on January 16, 2007
posted by Doohickie at 9:48 AM on January 16, 2007
It isn't complicated, it's real simple - it's just you don't want to hear any of the bedrock truths of your situation. Either he is interested in taking this thing into a full-fledged, exclusive relationship or he is not. If he isn't you have to get out of the sexual relationship because it will tear you up to stay in it. Period. There's no point worrying about losing what you have now because you have already lost what you once had. By falling for him you can never have just a close friendship with casual sexual benefits (if indeed you ever had that, and not just what you have now but with heaps of denial). If he isn't interested in a full romantic relationship it will be very hard to preserve a friendship as well. Your only option is to tell him how you feel, and I'm a person who always advocates simplicity and sincerity in matters of the heart. There is almost nothing in this situation that you can control: what you can control is whether you are honest, whether you are sincere, whether you act from the motivation of your heart or the motivation of fear.
posted by nanojath at 9:52 AM on January 16, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by nanojath at 9:52 AM on January 16, 2007 [2 favorites]
Recommendations from a skittish guy:
Any strategy along the lines of "trick him into doing what you want" is not recommended. That's a bad way to start or escalate a relationship, and possibly a good way to end things quick if he figures out what's going on.
I think "be honest" is good advice, but do it in a way that doesn't put him on the spot. That would be stressful, and might invoke an instinctive "bolt" response before the mind + heart have time to weigh in. Maybe consider something along the lines of "look, I think I should warn you ...". Casually. Be prepared to change the subject and carry the conversation for a bit after that, if necessary. Give him time to think about it (weeks, if necessary, not minutes), and by all means don't demand an Answer. Hope for the best, but be prepared for a no. If he doesn't wind up thinking along the same lines, would you be satisfied with the status quo, or would you break it off?
Meanwhile, spend some time thinking about that fear of rejection. Don't just dismiss it as "stupid, but how I feel". Feelings like that can lead to counterproductive, self-defeating behaviors. Where does this fear come from? How do you get past it? It's in your best interest to work on this before it works on you.
posted by lucky mollusk at 9:54 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
Any strategy along the lines of "trick him into doing what you want" is not recommended. That's a bad way to start or escalate a relationship, and possibly a good way to end things quick if he figures out what's going on.
I think "be honest" is good advice, but do it in a way that doesn't put him on the spot. That would be stressful, and might invoke an instinctive "bolt" response before the mind + heart have time to weigh in. Maybe consider something along the lines of "look, I think I should warn you ...". Casually. Be prepared to change the subject and carry the conversation for a bit after that, if necessary. Give him time to think about it (weeks, if necessary, not minutes), and by all means don't demand an Answer. Hope for the best, but be prepared for a no. If he doesn't wind up thinking along the same lines, would you be satisfied with the status quo, or would you break it off?
Meanwhile, spend some time thinking about that fear of rejection. Don't just dismiss it as "stupid, but how I feel". Feelings like that can lead to counterproductive, self-defeating behaviors. Where does this fear come from? How do you get past it? It's in your best interest to work on this before it works on you.
posted by lucky mollusk at 9:54 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'll leave it to others to suggest exact approaches, but you need to post haste take SOME sort of approach. You're sleeping with someone and developing deeper feelings than they might have for you. There's no more sure fire way to cause yourself amazing emotional pain and simultaneously cut yourself off from the possibility of emotional closeness with someone else.
I've seen people entangle themselves in situations like that which they continued on for years, keeping themselves unavailable to more complete, balanced, and happy relationships. I don't believe that Everything has to Go Somewhere - there's nothing wrong with just being happy in the moment - but you're teetering on the edge of not being happy in the moment.
Don't let fear of loss keep you from doing something and protecting yourself reasonably: ie, some protection. Complete recklessness and complete safety have no business being in the business of love. You've already changed the game with your changing emotions, don't hurt yourself trying to keep a status quo which is already gone.
posted by phearlez at 10:35 AM on January 16, 2007
I've seen people entangle themselves in situations like that which they continued on for years, keeping themselves unavailable to more complete, balanced, and happy relationships. I don't believe that Everything has to Go Somewhere - there's nothing wrong with just being happy in the moment - but you're teetering on the edge of not being happy in the moment.
Don't let fear of loss keep you from doing something and protecting yourself reasonably: ie, some protection. Complete recklessness and complete safety have no business being in the business of love. You've already changed the game with your changing emotions, don't hurt yourself trying to keep a status quo which is already gone.
posted by phearlez at 10:35 AM on January 16, 2007
Protip: "Waft" is not a romantic word.
posted by thirteenkiller at 10:55 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by thirteenkiller at 10:55 AM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
Of course you can build a relationship out of this. You've already started doing so.
To avoid skittish-freakout, do NOT start with "We need to Talk." Talk with a capital T is a great way to send someone Skittering with a capital S. Avoid capital letters. Including The L Word. Capital Letter Words Can Mean Too Many Confusing Things Wrapped Up In Expectations And Personal Anxiety For All Of Us.
There are other words to use to communicate that are easier and more understandable and less scary. I don't mean that you should be dishonest or water things down...just the opposite. Be more yourself.
Personally, I'd start as follows. Next time he says something or does something that makes you go oof, say something like, "Oof. I really, really like you." With a nice, genuine grin. Lather, rinse, repeat. With luck, he'll look you right back in the eyes and say, "Mmm. Meee too." Once you've started acknowledging this verbally, it's a lot easier to transition into discussions about growing old together.
posted by desuetude at 11:06 AM on January 16, 2007 [2 favorites]
To avoid skittish-freakout, do NOT start with "We need to Talk." Talk with a capital T is a great way to send someone Skittering with a capital S. Avoid capital letters. Including The L Word. Capital Letter Words Can Mean Too Many Confusing Things Wrapped Up In Expectations And Personal Anxiety For All Of Us.
There are other words to use to communicate that are easier and more understandable and less scary. I don't mean that you should be dishonest or water things down...just the opposite. Be more yourself.
Personally, I'd start as follows. Next time he says something or does something that makes you go oof, say something like, "Oof. I really, really like you." With a nice, genuine grin. Lather, rinse, repeat. With luck, he'll look you right back in the eyes and say, "Mmm. Meee too." Once you've started acknowledging this verbally, it's a lot easier to transition into discussions about growing old together.
posted by desuetude at 11:06 AM on January 16, 2007 [2 favorites]
I've been in your situation, on both sides, and my current relationship started out exactly as yours did.
There's some great advice here. Like desuetude, I would advise against springing the L word. It does tend to turn skittish people into Flojo, and I say this as a skittish person.
My one question is this: are either of you seeing other people casually? From the way you talk about him, I don't think you are, but you don't say anything about him.
If not, proceed.
If so, proceed, but with discretion. There is the possibility that what he is to you, someone else is to him. I didn't consider this, and I should have.
The people saying that you should end the sexing if he doesn't feel the same way are spot on. Listen to them.
Having said that, I hope this works out for you! Keep us posted?
posted by Fiat Lux at 2:23 PM on January 16, 2007
There's some great advice here. Like desuetude, I would advise against springing the L word. It does tend to turn skittish people into Flojo, and I say this as a skittish person.
My one question is this: are either of you seeing other people casually? From the way you talk about him, I don't think you are, but you don't say anything about him.
If not, proceed.
If so, proceed, but with discretion. There is the possibility that what he is to you, someone else is to him. I didn't consider this, and I should have.
The people saying that you should end the sexing if he doesn't feel the same way are spot on. Listen to them.
Having said that, I hope this works out for you! Keep us posted?
posted by Fiat Lux at 2:23 PM on January 16, 2007
IMHO, it's not so easy to convert a good f**k buddy into The One, because a real Neo doesn't usually allow themselves to become anyone's f**k buddy. There's a fine chemistry about being a f**k buddy, which few people can successfully carry off for any length of time; meeting someone's needs in some areas, while remaining unentangled in all other areas is nearly a professional attitude, and people who can do this in as primitive an area as sex, without money changing hands, are few and far between. This is why so many people say that sex is messy.
So, if you've found a skittish guy, who seems OK with being your f**k buddy, and thinks you're fine with being his, you may seriously skeeve him out, by trying to make it more than it is, particularly if he's been reliable and good in the limited role, and never put you in a position of having to make a greater committment. There's a real risk of permanently screwing up a good, if limited, thing here.
But if you can't help yourself, take the risk. You may need to, in order to fully learn a lesson about yourself, and what it means to agree to be in limited relationships, for limited purposes. If you learn nothing from this, but that you can't control your heart as well as you thought you could, or don't want to be the kind of person who can, then you'll avoid doing this kind of thing in the future, which will be the greater good for all the otherwise honorable, but necessarily limited men you won't become involved with in the future.
posted by paulsc at 2:27 PM on January 16, 2007 [2 favorites]
So, if you've found a skittish guy, who seems OK with being your f**k buddy, and thinks you're fine with being his, you may seriously skeeve him out, by trying to make it more than it is, particularly if he's been reliable and good in the limited role, and never put you in a position of having to make a greater committment. There's a real risk of permanently screwing up a good, if limited, thing here.
But if you can't help yourself, take the risk. You may need to, in order to fully learn a lesson about yourself, and what it means to agree to be in limited relationships, for limited purposes. If you learn nothing from this, but that you can't control your heart as well as you thought you could, or don't want to be the kind of person who can, then you'll avoid doing this kind of thing in the future, which will be the greater good for all the otherwise honorable, but necessarily limited men you won't become involved with in the future.
posted by paulsc at 2:27 PM on January 16, 2007 [2 favorites]
Trying to trick a guy into being your boyfriend is not a good idea. Here is why: it won't work. At least, not for long.
It sounds like you guys basically have a relationship already, with the exception of that it's currently OK for you to see other people (I'm assuming). So, while staying away from the L word, you could say something like "I really like you, and I think we get along, and I'd like us to see each other exclusively" and see how he takes it.
He may run for the hills, but that's preferable to the alternative, which is that you guys have sex for awhile and you pine for him and wish he would call more often and then he meets someone else and totally dumps you by never calling you again and then marries her 6 months later. Believe me, that's how these things usually end.
posted by myeviltwin at 3:32 PM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you guys basically have a relationship already, with the exception of that it's currently OK for you to see other people (I'm assuming). So, while staying away from the L word, you could say something like "I really like you, and I think we get along, and I'd like us to see each other exclusively" and see how he takes it.
He may run for the hills, but that's preferable to the alternative, which is that you guys have sex for awhile and you pine for him and wish he would call more often and then he meets someone else and totally dumps you by never calling you again and then marries her 6 months later. Believe me, that's how these things usually end.
posted by myeviltwin at 3:32 PM on January 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
you guys have sex for awhile and you pine for him and wish he would call more often and then he meets someone else and totally dumps you by never calling you again and then marries her 6 months later. Believe me, that's how these things usually end.
so. very. true.
(well, except the marriage part, but almost)
posted by echo0720 at 4:39 PM on January 16, 2007
so. very. true.
(well, except the marriage part, but almost)
posted by echo0720 at 4:39 PM on January 16, 2007
Ask him out on a date. If he bolts, he bolts. Don't chase after him. The bolting is his issue, not yours, so don't get sucked into it. Just be there when he comes back.
Be casual about it i.e. "Hey I heard Movie X was cool, you want to go see it with me? "
If he's skittish, try doing cool things that you're both interested in i.e. if you're both into basketball, mention that you're going to see x game one night. Don't invite him. He'll ask about it.
If he's interested in something you're not, ask him about it, discover what he likes about it. Your job here is to woo, so be sexy and fun, so he'll want to hang out with you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 PM on January 16, 2007
Be casual about it i.e. "Hey I heard Movie X was cool, you want to go see it with me? "
If he's skittish, try doing cool things that you're both interested in i.e. if you're both into basketball, mention that you're going to see x game one night. Don't invite him. He'll ask about it.
If he's interested in something you're not, ask him about it, discover what he likes about it. Your job here is to woo, so be sexy and fun, so he'll want to hang out with you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 PM on January 16, 2007
please don't tell him you love him flat-out. that's a tv strategy.
the following may sound like a game, but shouldn't be interpreted as such. think of it as a litmus test: you wanna know if someone can't live without you, so leave the room for a bit (so to speak) and see how he feels while you're out.
what if you went on a vacation, or disappeared into a project for a while- cutting the contact frequency down to zero for an actual reason. this is not playing a game. pick something legitmately fascinating, like central asia, or that screenplay you've been meaning to write, and fascinate yourself with it, away from him for a couple weeks.
when you get back, see what he says. if he's uncommunicative about it at first, tell him you missed him more than you expected, and see what he says then. if he missed you like crazy, he's prob in love, and will want to ramp things up. if he didn't miss you much, you have an answer right there.
my best girlfriend went to spain for a month and the day she and her boyfriend were reunited, he proposed. sometimes absence makes the heart grow fonder.
posted by twistofrhyme at 7:26 PM on January 16, 2007 [2 favorites]
the following may sound like a game, but shouldn't be interpreted as such. think of it as a litmus test: you wanna know if someone can't live without you, so leave the room for a bit (so to speak) and see how he feels while you're out.
what if you went on a vacation, or disappeared into a project for a while- cutting the contact frequency down to zero for an actual reason. this is not playing a game. pick something legitmately fascinating, like central asia, or that screenplay you've been meaning to write, and fascinate yourself with it, away from him for a couple weeks.
when you get back, see what he says. if he's uncommunicative about it at first, tell him you missed him more than you expected, and see what he says then. if he missed you like crazy, he's prob in love, and will want to ramp things up. if he didn't miss you much, you have an answer right there.
my best girlfriend went to spain for a month and the day she and her boyfriend were reunited, he proposed. sometimes absence makes the heart grow fonder.
posted by twistofrhyme at 7:26 PM on January 16, 2007 [2 favorites]
Another thing to figure out, as you try to formulate a plan of attack, is what makes him skittish.
Is it the idea of love? Of monogamy? Of commitment — not the same as monogamy, since there are brief exclusive relationships and enduring fuckbuddyships? Of emotional opennness? Is he afraid of not being good enough for you? Afraid you'll turn into a raving bitch if he gives you an inch? (Even if you wouldn't, he's probably met women who would; for some guys it just takes one bad relationship to learn that fear for life.) Could it be that he's just not into you, he's self-aware enough to realize it, and he'd be inclined to bail if he found out he'd been leading you on?
In a perfect world, you could sit your hot young thing down, present the idea of a relationship, and talk through his reaction with him until you and he understand it. (And for what it's worth, if you do manage that with this guy, it's a good sign that he's a keeper.) In the imperfect world that we live in, you may have to do some scouting first.
However you find out, if the thing that scares him (love, monogamy, commitment, or etc.) is something you need in a relationship, you're at an impasse. But if it isn't something you need, you're in a very good position to work out a healthy (if nonstandard) relationship. If he's scared of commitment, but all you want anyway is monogamy for the moment, you can probably work something out. Ditto if he's scared of love but you just want to lay down some ground rules, or if he's scared of monogamy but you just want to discuss your feelings, or whatever.
(I suspect that this is the sort of thing the posters have in mind who are telling you to be careful how you phrase things. Don't ask for a "relationship," which is hairy and poorly defined and scares even calm people — ask for specific things that you need and think he can provide. Nobody's actually come out and suggested you "trick" him into anything, but I hope it goes without saying that any trickery would be totally counterproductive. Nothing scares a skittish man off like the idea of being someone's prey.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:32 PM on January 16, 2007
Is it the idea of love? Of monogamy? Of commitment — not the same as monogamy, since there are brief exclusive relationships and enduring fuckbuddyships? Of emotional opennness? Is he afraid of not being good enough for you? Afraid you'll turn into a raving bitch if he gives you an inch? (Even if you wouldn't, he's probably met women who would; for some guys it just takes one bad relationship to learn that fear for life.) Could it be that he's just not into you, he's self-aware enough to realize it, and he'd be inclined to bail if he found out he'd been leading you on?
In a perfect world, you could sit your hot young thing down, present the idea of a relationship, and talk through his reaction with him until you and he understand it. (And for what it's worth, if you do manage that with this guy, it's a good sign that he's a keeper.) In the imperfect world that we live in, you may have to do some scouting first.
However you find out, if the thing that scares him (love, monogamy, commitment, or etc.) is something you need in a relationship, you're at an impasse. But if it isn't something you need, you're in a very good position to work out a healthy (if nonstandard) relationship. If he's scared of commitment, but all you want anyway is monogamy for the moment, you can probably work something out. Ditto if he's scared of love but you just want to lay down some ground rules, or if he's scared of monogamy but you just want to discuss your feelings, or whatever.
(I suspect that this is the sort of thing the posters have in mind who are telling you to be careful how you phrase things. Don't ask for a "relationship," which is hairy and poorly defined and scares even calm people — ask for specific things that you need and think he can provide. Nobody's actually come out and suggested you "trick" him into anything, but I hope it goes without saying that any trickery would be totally counterproductive. Nothing scares a skittish man off like the idea of being someone's prey.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:32 PM on January 16, 2007
Hmmmm . . . tricking him, no good. But why bring the rest of it in there?
Here's my advice. Just keep telling him how great he is. In every way, but don't bring up the relationship stuff, at least for three months. See how he reacts to that.
Then be like, "hey um I want something more, I can understand how you might not want something more, but it can only work for me this way, and otherwise we need to be just friends. I don't want to know what your answer is right now, but in a week" Then go on a vacation. See what the answer is when he gets back.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:09 AM on January 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Here's my advice. Just keep telling him how great he is. In every way, but don't bring up the relationship stuff, at least for three months. See how he reacts to that.
Then be like, "hey um I want something more, I can understand how you might not want something more, but it can only work for me this way, and otherwise we need to be just friends. I don't want to know what your answer is right now, but in a week" Then go on a vacation. See what the answer is when he gets back.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:09 AM on January 17, 2007 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Okay, okay, lots to think about here.
I'm not going to tell him I love him, tell him I want a "relationship", or try to trick him. I don't even know that I love him! I like him a lot. I'm not even sure I'm "falling in love" with him, although I might concede that I'm "falling for" him. I'd like to date him, and/or be his girlfriend, but even I don't like the word "relationship". It's like the Law & Order "buh-bum" sound should follow that word. And trick him? I'm not that wily even if I wanted to, which I don't. Anyway, I like the boy, so why would I want to make him a fool? I want to be a good thing in his life.
Clarification: by skittish I mean anxious or awkward, not specifically skittish about me or anything we've talked about. When we are together it's comfortable.
I'm not sure what approach I should take. But I must admit that one time in an email I blurted out something like "I can't help it, I really like you." He didn't reply directly to this. (Which is not unusual. He has positively bizarre email habits, like replying not to the relevant email but to some other one I might've sent months ago. Or composing a reply using a different, unrelated email in the middle of an ongoing exchange.) I don't think it's a good sign that he didn't say anything, but he did keep seeing me - in fact he emailed me back after I wrote that, suggesting we get together.
I've thought about these posts a lot since yesterday, and I have to say, although I know that this isn't all I want to be to him, I'm not sure I'm ready to stop seeing him. It's confusing. What is the line between being patient with someone who may not be "there" in the same place I am, someone who may need much more gradual involvement, and being a sucker who's demeaning herself? I don't feel demeaned or compromised. I enjoy our time together and I'm willing to wait and see what happens. I don't feel like this relationship is holding me back from meeting other people or enjoying life. Can't it be a good thing to be gentle and have a little hope that he'll meet me where I am?
I know that I would be very sad if he met someone else. This I know.
posted by loiseau at 10:11 AM on January 17, 2007
I'm not going to tell him I love him, tell him I want a "relationship", or try to trick him. I don't even know that I love him! I like him a lot. I'm not even sure I'm "falling in love" with him, although I might concede that I'm "falling for" him. I'd like to date him, and/or be his girlfriend, but even I don't like the word "relationship". It's like the Law & Order "buh-bum" sound should follow that word. And trick him? I'm not that wily even if I wanted to, which I don't. Anyway, I like the boy, so why would I want to make him a fool? I want to be a good thing in his life.
Clarification: by skittish I mean anxious or awkward, not specifically skittish about me or anything we've talked about. When we are together it's comfortable.
I'm not sure what approach I should take. But I must admit that one time in an email I blurted out something like "I can't help it, I really like you." He didn't reply directly to this. (Which is not unusual. He has positively bizarre email habits, like replying not to the relevant email but to some other one I might've sent months ago. Or composing a reply using a different, unrelated email in the middle of an ongoing exchange.) I don't think it's a good sign that he didn't say anything, but he did keep seeing me - in fact he emailed me back after I wrote that, suggesting we get together.
I've thought about these posts a lot since yesterday, and I have to say, although I know that this isn't all I want to be to him, I'm not sure I'm ready to stop seeing him. It's confusing. What is the line between being patient with someone who may not be "there" in the same place I am, someone who may need much more gradual involvement, and being a sucker who's demeaning herself? I don't feel demeaned or compromised. I enjoy our time together and I'm willing to wait and see what happens. I don't feel like this relationship is holding me back from meeting other people or enjoying life. Can't it be a good thing to be gentle and have a little hope that he'll meet me where I am?
I know that I would be very sad if he met someone else. This I know.
posted by loiseau at 10:11 AM on January 17, 2007
...and being a sucker who's demeaning herself? I don't feel demeaned or compromised. I enjoy our time together and I'm willing to wait and see what happens. I don't feel like this relationship is holding me back from meeting other people or enjoying life. Can't it be a good thing to be gentle and have a little hope that he'll meet me where I am?
It sounds like you're venturing into overthinking territory. Why are you worrying about being demeaned if you don't feel demeaned? Take a deep breath and enjoy the guy. (If pressure is coming from other people, tell 'em to fuck off.)
This hoping you mention at the end of the above passage? Hey, it's a risk of all relationships. It's the fundamental drive behind the fluttering the first time you ask someone out or the first time you say yes.
posted by desuetude at 10:20 AM on January 17, 2007
It sounds like you're venturing into overthinking territory. Why are you worrying about being demeaned if you don't feel demeaned? Take a deep breath and enjoy the guy. (If pressure is coming from other people, tell 'em to fuck off.)
This hoping you mention at the end of the above passage? Hey, it's a risk of all relationships. It's the fundamental drive behind the fluttering the first time you ask someone out or the first time you say yes.
posted by desuetude at 10:20 AM on January 17, 2007
Response by poster: desuetude: "Why are you worrying about being demeaned if you don't feel demeaned? Take a deep breath and enjoy the guy. (If pressure is coming from other people, tell 'em to fuck off.)"
Well, it was a thought that has come up in this thread, that to continue to sleep with him when he's not fulfilling my other needs would be compromising myself. I think it's one of those women's truths that we spout sometimes... that in x situation you have to do y to maintain dignity. I don't agree that it's inherently bad, but when I say so it just sounds like I'm trying to justify it.
I'm probably overthinking it; it would be typical. But I really don't want to mess this up!
posted by loiseau at 2:49 PM on January 17, 2007
Well, it was a thought that has come up in this thread, that to continue to sleep with him when he's not fulfilling my other needs would be compromising myself. I think it's one of those women's truths that we spout sometimes... that in x situation you have to do y to maintain dignity. I don't agree that it's inherently bad, but when I say so it just sounds like I'm trying to justify it.
I'm probably overthinking it; it would be typical. But I really don't want to mess this up!
posted by loiseau at 2:49 PM on January 17, 2007
would be compromising myself
If you, from the moment you met him, were shook as if by thunder, struck madly with the Absolute Knowledge That He IS The One, but you sheepishly settled for the occasional booty-call, just to be near him, THAT would be compromising yourself. And I'd be telling you to have some freaking dignity and separate your luuvvvving from your laying.
But you met a boy, he turns your crank, and through regular and satisfying mutual crank-turning, you've grown to really like him like him. I can't promise this will work out, but I can say that if you sound like you're doing fine with your own instincts. (Also, your description of the situation in your original post is charming.)
posted by desuetude at 3:36 PM on January 17, 2007
If you, from the moment you met him, were shook as if by thunder, struck madly with the Absolute Knowledge That He IS The One, but you sheepishly settled for the occasional booty-call, just to be near him, THAT would be compromising yourself. And I'd be telling you to have some freaking dignity and separate your luuvvvving from your laying.
But you met a boy, he turns your crank, and through regular and satisfying mutual crank-turning, you've grown to really like him like him. I can't promise this will work out, but I can say that if you sound like you're doing fine with your own instincts. (Also, your description of the situation in your original post is charming.)
posted by desuetude at 3:36 PM on January 17, 2007
Well, it was a thought that has come up in this thread, that to continue to sleep with him when he's not fulfilling my other needs would be compromising myself.
I suspect this is directed to me among others, so I'll reply: Compromising yourself isn't a phrase I'd use, I'd just encourage you not to continue on too long, now that you have identified clearly what it is you really want out of this association, without doing something about it. If you merely had a mild tickle in the back of your brain that told you "I'd like it if this was something more" then that would be one thing, however it rarely seems to be that way for people.
More commonly it is a mild pain in the back of our minds that tinges all the pleasant moments with sadness and longing for a person who may well be sitting right next to you. It's easy to fall into these things that fail to be what we really want and then just float down the metaphorical river, unavailable to more complete happiness because we're otherwise occupied. Don't let yourself be dull to your own needs because you're afraid of losing what you have at the moment; at least not if it's causing you an unacceptable amount of pain along with the pleasure.
posted by phearlez at 6:49 PM on January 17, 2007
I suspect this is directed to me among others, so I'll reply: Compromising yourself isn't a phrase I'd use, I'd just encourage you not to continue on too long, now that you have identified clearly what it is you really want out of this association, without doing something about it. If you merely had a mild tickle in the back of your brain that told you "I'd like it if this was something more" then that would be one thing, however it rarely seems to be that way for people.
More commonly it is a mild pain in the back of our minds that tinges all the pleasant moments with sadness and longing for a person who may well be sitting right next to you. It's easy to fall into these things that fail to be what we really want and then just float down the metaphorical river, unavailable to more complete happiness because we're otherwise occupied. Don't let yourself be dull to your own needs because you're afraid of losing what you have at the moment; at least not if it's causing you an unacceptable amount of pain along with the pleasure.
posted by phearlez at 6:49 PM on January 17, 2007
Response by poster: Well, he told me last night that he is definitely interested but he's not in a headspace to be anything more to me than someone I fuck occasionally.
I accept this because I know he has some head problems right now. And because I have no choice. But I'm very very sad because I like him so much. even with head problems.
He implied that he'd still like to maintain the sexual part, and I probably will.
This sucks. so bad.
posted by loiseau at 2:39 PM on January 24, 2007
I accept this because I know he has some head problems right now. And because I have no choice. But I'm very very sad because I like him so much. even with head problems.
He implied that he'd still like to maintain the sexual part, and I probably will.
This sucks. so bad.
posted by loiseau at 2:39 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: I really wanted to end this thread with happy news.
posted by loiseau at 2:39 PM on January 24, 2007
posted by loiseau at 2:39 PM on January 24, 2007
Response by poster: Eugh. This guy was a capital-L loser. I found out he had a girlfriend and was sleeping with other people too. Jesus christ, I should learn something from this!
posted by loiseau at 1:00 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by loiseau at 1:00 PM on October 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by caddis at 8:25 AM on January 16, 2007