What to do with my girlfriend?
January 2, 2007 3:38 PM Subscribe
Is it fair to break up with someone over the 'business side' of a relationship?
I am in a relationship with my girlfriend where we have been living together for over 3years. She moved here from Europe to be with me. Over this time I have taken care of all of our living expenses and then some. Completely understood considering the situation.
She was a marketing major but always had a dream job that I had encouraged her to chase since she had the opportunity to start fresh here in the states. She has been following this dream for 3 years now and lets just say the pay is quite lower than is needed to live in this area. Which is also ok. I have no problem with having to pay for our expenses, but I do expect some help in other areas to keep things 'even' so to speak. Help cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house stuff etc. But unfortunately she doesn't.
Now understand that I am not a wealthy man. Supporting two people while trying to clean up my debt so I can one day dream about buying a house leaves me with, well, nothing. So these other things are big. I cannot afford to go out all the time for dinner. Hiring a maid is out of the question.
Now we have an opportunity for us to get a better situation. But its going to cost us a bit more. I need help. As it is, I have to chase her down for money to contribute to the household. So we had a big talk and she agreed to try to find a way to make more money. Part time job or so.
A month later and she has made 1 call. And did not get the job.
It drives me crazy. And every time I come home I am disgusted by the messy apartment and lack of upkeep. I don’t expect anyone to pick up after me, but pick things up after yourself. I actually left the kitchen alone for over 3 days to see if the mess in it would be cleaned, and I had to do it myself because I couldn’t deal.
Now mind you, otherwise the girl is great. Sweet, generous, caring. I love her. We have fun together and enjoy spending time together. It’s just…. These other issues are becoming so overwhelming that I can’t see the other side. We’ve spoken about it, fought about it, forgotten about it. I have come to the conclusion that I have to accept it. Either I live with a messy, unorganized, financial unhelping girlfriend or I break up with a sweet girl over the small stuff. Or is the small stuff really the big stuff?
What do I do??
I am in a relationship with my girlfriend where we have been living together for over 3years. She moved here from Europe to be with me. Over this time I have taken care of all of our living expenses and then some. Completely understood considering the situation.
She was a marketing major but always had a dream job that I had encouraged her to chase since she had the opportunity to start fresh here in the states. She has been following this dream for 3 years now and lets just say the pay is quite lower than is needed to live in this area. Which is also ok. I have no problem with having to pay for our expenses, but I do expect some help in other areas to keep things 'even' so to speak. Help cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house stuff etc. But unfortunately she doesn't.
Now understand that I am not a wealthy man. Supporting two people while trying to clean up my debt so I can one day dream about buying a house leaves me with, well, nothing. So these other things are big. I cannot afford to go out all the time for dinner. Hiring a maid is out of the question.
Now we have an opportunity for us to get a better situation. But its going to cost us a bit more. I need help. As it is, I have to chase her down for money to contribute to the household. So we had a big talk and she agreed to try to find a way to make more money. Part time job or so.
A month later and she has made 1 call. And did not get the job.
It drives me crazy. And every time I come home I am disgusted by the messy apartment and lack of upkeep. I don’t expect anyone to pick up after me, but pick things up after yourself. I actually left the kitchen alone for over 3 days to see if the mess in it would be cleaned, and I had to do it myself because I couldn’t deal.
Now mind you, otherwise the girl is great. Sweet, generous, caring. I love her. We have fun together and enjoy spending time together. It’s just…. These other issues are becoming so overwhelming that I can’t see the other side. We’ve spoken about it, fought about it, forgotten about it. I have come to the conclusion that I have to accept it. Either I live with a messy, unorganized, financial unhelping girlfriend or I break up with a sweet girl over the small stuff. Or is the small stuff really the big stuff?
What do I do??
Money's not the small stuff. Neither is upkeep of the house, to me. If she's not pulling weight in either department, I'd say she's got you by the....err, man parts. I'm curious, you mentioned she moved from Europe to be with you, is part of the reason you are still with her? Sorry if that sounds harsh but I wonder if you've ever examined that thought. I know you say you love her, but man those are some deal-breakers that will be difficult to change in her.
posted by CwgrlUp at 3:56 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by CwgrlUp at 3:56 PM on January 2, 2007
Does she work the same hours at the lower-paying dream job as you work at your job? If so, I think the household jobs should still be divided equally (by time/effort) between the two of you. She shouldn't have to do more household work than you just because she earns less money at her job. The only reason she should take on more than half of the household work is if she works fewer hours at her job.
Otherwise, it's simple: if she's not doing her share, you must make it clear what her responsibilities are, make sure that she agrees with you that they are necessary, and make sure that she knows how to do them efficiently. If you have done all this and she still does not take care of her share of things, then you can work harder to get her to do it (e.g. figure out why she does not do the work that she agrees is necessary), or ditch her.
posted by xo at 3:57 PM on January 2, 2007
Otherwise, it's simple: if she's not doing her share, you must make it clear what her responsibilities are, make sure that she agrees with you that they are necessary, and make sure that she knows how to do them efficiently. If you have done all this and she still does not take care of her share of things, then you can work harder to get her to do it (e.g. figure out why she does not do the work that she agrees is necessary), or ditch her.
posted by xo at 3:57 PM on January 2, 2007
If it's driving you nuts, and it's not likely to change, sure, it's "fair" to break up over it. It's affecting your happiness, and it will end up affecting hers.
posted by I Am Not a Lobster at 3:57 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by I Am Not a Lobster at 3:57 PM on January 2, 2007
Can you live without her? Would you prefer to be alone in a clean apartment?
posted by poxuppit at 4:01 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by poxuppit at 4:01 PM on January 2, 2007
Allow me to disagree. Look, she doesn't sound like she is trying to live off you or that she is a "good for nuthin'" character. I went through something very similar and I'll try to sum it up for you, see if it helps.
My girlfriend was struggling, working to pay for her own college. She wouldn't get good jobs 'cause she didn't have the title and she couldn't give college all the attention it needed because she had to work to pay for it. I had a nice job, I could pay for both our lives while she studied, which would then mean that she could be over with college a lot faster and our lives would be perfect, aye?
Then her college started doing nasty tricks like changing the curricula, which extended the time needed to graduate. It was hellish. At the same time, and veeeeeeeeeery slowly, she slipped into a severe depression, as she was not used to "depending on anyone." She left home at a young age and had always worked to pay for her own life.
The thing is, without realizing, we slipped into another "vicious circle." Luckily we were able to realize that depending on me was actually making life worse for her than working and studying at the same time. She decided to start working again, but it took a little while, you know. About three or four months.
If this woman is someone you really care about, hang in there. It's worth it and, believe me, things will get better. The one crucial thing here is that you realize if she is someone who will get out of it, or if she is just someone who relies on other people for the most basic things and will basically slide from one bad situation to another one. You are the only one who can make that call.
But if your question is "will this eventually change," I think it can, yeah, and I think while you are in the middle of it it seems like it won't. Don't despair.
posted by micayetoca at 4:10 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
My girlfriend was struggling, working to pay for her own college. She wouldn't get good jobs 'cause she didn't have the title and she couldn't give college all the attention it needed because she had to work to pay for it. I had a nice job, I could pay for both our lives while she studied, which would then mean that she could be over with college a lot faster and our lives would be perfect, aye?
Then her college started doing nasty tricks like changing the curricula, which extended the time needed to graduate. It was hellish. At the same time, and veeeeeeeeeery slowly, she slipped into a severe depression, as she was not used to "depending on anyone." She left home at a young age and had always worked to pay for her own life.
The thing is, without realizing, we slipped into another "vicious circle." Luckily we were able to realize that depending on me was actually making life worse for her than working and studying at the same time. She decided to start working again, but it took a little while, you know. About three or four months.
If this woman is someone you really care about, hang in there. It's worth it and, believe me, things will get better. The one crucial thing here is that you realize if she is someone who will get out of it, or if she is just someone who relies on other people for the most basic things and will basically slide from one bad situation to another one. You are the only one who can make that call.
But if your question is "will this eventually change," I think it can, yeah, and I think while you are in the middle of it it seems like it won't. Don't despair.
posted by micayetoca at 4:10 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
Sounds like you're a sucker. We've all been there. When a richer guy comes along, or she does start making her own nut (but why should she bother, sugardaddy?), you're toast anyway, most likely. I'd say a surgical strike is in order.
posted by spitbull at 4:15 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by spitbull at 4:15 PM on January 2, 2007
If she's never had to take responsibility for herself before, she probably doesn't grasp the reality of the situation, or how serious you are.
Is it fair to break up with someone over money and responsibility? Thankfully, the fair labor act doesn't regulate breakups. There's a reason for the cliche "All's fair in love and war" and mostly because, in love and war, it's the rest of your life on the line. It's not about being polite or having people think you're the best.
You can treat her like a lenient parent -- covering for her lack of responsibility, and then resent her for it when she doesn't even realize the strain it puts on you. Sure, it'll erode some of your love overtime, but she's so incredible that you'll have some left, right?
You can treat her like a strict "tough love" parent -- give her a shape up or ship out ultimatum and then she'll either resent you or leave.
Or, you can treat her like a partner, talk about the issues, make compromises that have consequences and both of you have to stick to them, etc. If she's not able to do this, or you're not able to do this, it's more than fair to break up. After all, if you can't do this, it's not breaking up over a dirty dish. It's breaking up because you can't create a life that takes both partners in mind.
As a messy, flaky, often irresponsible girl with a low paying job in marketing, I wish you good luck in however it comes out. I'm thankful every day that I married a man who calls me on my shit. Even if I throw a little fit sometimes when he does it. At least I know that he respects me and that I'm with him because I love him. Not because I couldn't function without him.
posted by Gucky at 4:21 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
Is it fair to break up with someone over money and responsibility? Thankfully, the fair labor act doesn't regulate breakups. There's a reason for the cliche "All's fair in love and war" and mostly because, in love and war, it's the rest of your life on the line. It's not about being polite or having people think you're the best.
You can treat her like a lenient parent -- covering for her lack of responsibility, and then resent her for it when she doesn't even realize the strain it puts on you. Sure, it'll erode some of your love overtime, but she's so incredible that you'll have some left, right?
You can treat her like a strict "tough love" parent -- give her a shape up or ship out ultimatum and then she'll either resent you or leave.
Or, you can treat her like a partner, talk about the issues, make compromises that have consequences and both of you have to stick to them, etc. If she's not able to do this, or you're not able to do this, it's more than fair to break up. After all, if you can't do this, it's not breaking up over a dirty dish. It's breaking up because you can't create a life that takes both partners in mind.
As a messy, flaky, often irresponsible girl with a low paying job in marketing, I wish you good luck in however it comes out. I'm thankful every day that I married a man who calls me on my shit. Even if I throw a little fit sometimes when he does it. At least I know that he respects me and that I'm with him because I love him. Not because I couldn't function without him.
posted by Gucky at 4:21 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yes, it's reasonable to break up with her over this. This is important to you and it really won't get better. If she was going to participate in the relationship this way, she would have already. She has stuff to offer you, this just isn't one of those things. You are a set of compromises for her too.
The point is, you can try and change her or like the way she is. If the cleaning up and paying her way is that important to you, I would suggest moving on, as you are going against her nature here. Or you could decide that her company and love is what you actually want and lower your standard of living so that money isn't an issue like it is now. But it sounds like it isn't the money that is the problem, but rather your sense of her "freeloading".
posted by qwip at 4:29 PM on January 2, 2007
The point is, you can try and change her or like the way she is. If the cleaning up and paying her way is that important to you, I would suggest moving on, as you are going against her nature here. Or you could decide that her company and love is what you actually want and lower your standard of living so that money isn't an issue like it is now. But it sounds like it isn't the money that is the problem, but rather your sense of her "freeloading".
posted by qwip at 4:29 PM on January 2, 2007
Those are pretty big Conflicts that aren't being resolved. My belief is that all relationships involve constant re-negotiation and conflict resolution. Moment-to-moment. If large important conflicts like you describe are not being resolved, where does that leave all of the "smaller" but actually much more important ones, the ones that lead to true intimacy? They're likely not getting addressed at all.
Sounds to me like you already know your answer, or you wouldn't have been able to ask the question.
posted by Bradley at 4:31 PM on January 2, 2007
Sounds to me like you already know your answer, or you wouldn't have been able to ask the question.
posted by Bradley at 4:31 PM on January 2, 2007
the question is whether you love her, still love her, or not. if you're over it, if it's just not worth it anymore, then move on. if you still want her to be your girlfriend, try to talk to her again.
it's your right to end a relationship based on absolutely anything. I don't like the way you fart. is enough of a reason. this is after all about happiness (excuse me, "happyness"). love is the ultimate compliment, much more meaningful than liking someone. if it's not it, then seek what's missing somewhere else with someone else.
posted by krautland at 4:34 PM on January 2, 2007
it's your right to end a relationship based on absolutely anything. I don't like the way you fart. is enough of a reason. this is after all about happiness (excuse me, "happyness"). love is the ultimate compliment, much more meaningful than liking someone. if it's not it, then seek what's missing somewhere else with someone else.
posted by krautland at 4:34 PM on January 2, 2007
I was in EXACTLY the same situation as you last year. My ex-girlfriend moved with me from the midwest to Philly when I took a new career opportunity. I supported us at first while she looked for a job, which was more than fair. However, after some time, she stopped looking for work, stopped making calls, and didn't really make any contributions to make up for it (no cleaning, no cooking, etc.) For months, I felt like I had a daughter and not a girlfriend, and things just kept getting worse. Finally, I ended things and she moved back home to the midwest.
You know what? It was the right decision in the end. Though I loved her, I didn't realize what an emotional and physical drain having to 100% support that relationship imposed on me. Comparing my mood and mental health now as opposed to when I was in that situation is the only thing I need to convince myself that it was the right thing to do. Do I feel bad that she moved here for me and I ended things? Yes. Do I regret ending the relationship? No.
Obviously, you need to analyze your situation as it pertains to you and figure out what is best in your life, but I think that you are approaching the issue with the proper outlook and consideration. Finance, work, and living arrangements are big aspects in a relationship, and both parties need to be in agreement for things to work. A one-sided relationship is toxic. Look at your situation from a completely objective point of view - what would you advise a friend in a similar situation?
For what it's worth, there is life after long relationships. I've had a great time returning to the single life and learning my new city. I took a risk by ending the relationship, but gained a new sense of freedom and adventure by eliminating what I now realize was a toxic person from my life.
Best of luck in your decision.
posted by galimatias at 4:57 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
You know what? It was the right decision in the end. Though I loved her, I didn't realize what an emotional and physical drain having to 100% support that relationship imposed on me. Comparing my mood and mental health now as opposed to when I was in that situation is the only thing I need to convince myself that it was the right thing to do. Do I feel bad that she moved here for me and I ended things? Yes. Do I regret ending the relationship? No.
Obviously, you need to analyze your situation as it pertains to you and figure out what is best in your life, but I think that you are approaching the issue with the proper outlook and consideration. Finance, work, and living arrangements are big aspects in a relationship, and both parties need to be in agreement for things to work. A one-sided relationship is toxic. Look at your situation from a completely objective point of view - what would you advise a friend in a similar situation?
For what it's worth, there is life after long relationships. I've had a great time returning to the single life and learning my new city. I took a risk by ending the relationship, but gained a new sense of freedom and adventure by eliminating what I now realize was a toxic person from my life.
Best of luck in your decision.
posted by galimatias at 4:57 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
'Big stuff' vs. 'small stuff' is a really personal thing. Obviously you think of this stuff as 'big stuff' or you wouldn't be considering breaking up with her. For what it's worth, I think the issues here are more than just money (though 'money' is so far over on the 'big stuff' side of the line that I would still think you should be considering a breakup even if that were the only issue) but also respect and commitment and compromise and communication. Those are big, broad issues that you two seem to be having trouble with.
Whether they're issues you want to break up over, only you can decide, but don't fool yourself into thinking they're not really issues.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:19 PM on January 2, 2007
Whether they're issues you want to break up over, only you can decide, but don't fool yourself into thinking they're not really issues.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:19 PM on January 2, 2007
Yeah, I've got to agree with xo; earning less money does not make one more responsible for household chores. You say, "the pay is quite lower than is needed to live in this area." Whose idea was it to live in this expensive area? Would she be quite happy in a more modest apartment?
posted by transona5 at 5:20 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by transona5 at 5:20 PM on January 2, 2007
I was coming in with the "all's fair in love & war" quote too. seriously, why are you asking permission to break up a relationship? You can ask if it's a good idea, if you might regret it, if other people think you're making a mistake, but a)it doesn't really matter what other people think and b)we have no good way to know how things truly are between the two of you anyway. This is about you. This is your life, your life partner. Will you find someone else if you end this? maybe, maybe not. Will you be happier with them? maybe, maybe not. Those are risks you have to assume if you are not satisfied with the current scenario. Perhaps you are at a stage where you feel that either the two of you should cement the deal and get married, or call it quits, and you're leaning toward the latter. Or perhaps your approach to relationships is just to go along with things forever without explicitly having to ever make a commitment but some part of your subconscious is calling out, hey waitaminute, is this it?
I think assessment and active choice is a good thing in a relationship after a few years: choose it because you really want it, not because it's there and you don't hate it. Others will argue that you can be fulfilled by relationships you just kinda find yourself in, and that this kind of compromise is what grown-up love is all about. That's a choice for you to make; just be aware you're making it.
posted by mdn at 5:28 PM on January 2, 2007
I think assessment and active choice is a good thing in a relationship after a few years: choose it because you really want it, not because it's there and you don't hate it. Others will argue that you can be fulfilled by relationships you just kinda find yourself in, and that this kind of compromise is what grown-up love is all about. That's a choice for you to make; just be aware you're making it.
posted by mdn at 5:28 PM on January 2, 2007
Sure it's "fair." You can break up with someone for any reason you want.
posted by curie at 5:35 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by curie at 5:35 PM on January 2, 2007
Seconding curie. It's fair to break up with someone for any reason that seems fit to you, or any reason that means that you'd rather not be in a relationship with them.
You don't owe this woman a relationship with you. What you owe her is to deal with her honestly. This means not jerking her around, and not using an empty threat to break up to manipulate her in your relationship, and not breaking up with her halfway or coming back to her. Break up with her, a clean break, or try to work it out and let the chips fall as they do.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:48 PM on January 2, 2007
You don't owe this woman a relationship with you. What you owe her is to deal with her honestly. This means not jerking her around, and not using an empty threat to break up to manipulate her in your relationship, and not breaking up with her halfway or coming back to her. Break up with her, a clean break, or try to work it out and let the chips fall as they do.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:48 PM on January 2, 2007
Here's speculation: perhaps she hasn't adjusted to living in the US? There's a lot of talk of sacrifice on your side, but she's the one who gave up her old life to be with you. When you lose all points of reference outside of a relationship, it's not just a matter of being 'someone who relies on other people for the most basic things', and it's not uncommon to end up treading water.
Of course, the exact opposite might apply. But money and domestic matters are certainly more often the breaking points of relationships than personal attraction.
posted by holgate at 5:51 PM on January 2, 2007
Of course, the exact opposite might apply. But money and domestic matters are certainly more often the breaking points of relationships than personal attraction.
posted by holgate at 5:51 PM on January 2, 2007
I am surprised at the "dump her" answers.
I agree with krautland. Talk with her again. Maybe she is having a hard time adjusting. Maybe she misses her home country. Maybe she is lonely. Maybe she is depressed.
You may have already approached it this way, but I would tell her again how you feel about the current state of affairs. Complaining that there aren't any clean glasses does not convey how you feel.
Maybe say something like: "Girlfriend, I don't feel at home in this mess. I would like to enjoy our apartment more, but when it is a wreck, I can't. I want us to feel better about our living situation and I think we should devise a plan to keep up with the laundry and the chores."
You could then devise a simple plan of keeping the house picked up. My husband and I have two rules. We clean one room a day. We clean one room or scrub the tile in a bathroom, etc. and we make sure things are picked up before we go to bed. Since she is not working, she can be doing most of the chores. When you are home, I am betting it would help her physically and emotionally if you helped clean up the dinner dishes and wash the kitchen floor while listening to some music. Try to make it a team effort when you can.
About the job, She isn't a twenty-something mooching off her parents, so you can't say something like, "get a job by the end of January or you're out." She will most likely feel resentful if you give ultimatums. Not that you have, but just a thought.
Express that you feel hurt and disrespected that she is not earning a bit of money to contribute to the household. Explain that at this juncture it doesn't matter where she works. Starbucks, Burger King, Kinkos, anything.
Ask her to commit to actively fill out applications everyday until she is hired. Explain that you would like to be a mature couple, working together to decrease debt and eventually buy a home. She can continue to search for better employment, but for now it's crucial that she is generating an income.
It would be helpful to hear how she responds when you have spoken with her in the past about the housecleaning, job, etc. Is she remorseful that she hasn't been picking up? Does she understand that the division of labor is seriously unfair? Does she feel guilty and promise to look for employment and clean?
Good luck.
posted by LoriFLA at 5:56 PM on January 2, 2007
I agree with krautland. Talk with her again. Maybe she is having a hard time adjusting. Maybe she misses her home country. Maybe she is lonely. Maybe she is depressed.
You may have already approached it this way, but I would tell her again how you feel about the current state of affairs. Complaining that there aren't any clean glasses does not convey how you feel.
Maybe say something like: "Girlfriend, I don't feel at home in this mess. I would like to enjoy our apartment more, but when it is a wreck, I can't. I want us to feel better about our living situation and I think we should devise a plan to keep up with the laundry and the chores."
You could then devise a simple plan of keeping the house picked up. My husband and I have two rules. We clean one room a day. We clean one room or scrub the tile in a bathroom, etc. and we make sure things are picked up before we go to bed. Since she is not working, she can be doing most of the chores. When you are home, I am betting it would help her physically and emotionally if you helped clean up the dinner dishes and wash the kitchen floor while listening to some music. Try to make it a team effort when you can.
About the job, She isn't a twenty-something mooching off her parents, so you can't say something like, "get a job by the end of January or you're out." She will most likely feel resentful if you give ultimatums. Not that you have, but just a thought.
Express that you feel hurt and disrespected that she is not earning a bit of money to contribute to the household. Explain that at this juncture it doesn't matter where she works. Starbucks, Burger King, Kinkos, anything.
Ask her to commit to actively fill out applications everyday until she is hired. Explain that you would like to be a mature couple, working together to decrease debt and eventually buy a home. She can continue to search for better employment, but for now it's crucial that she is generating an income.
It would be helpful to hear how she responds when you have spoken with her in the past about the housecleaning, job, etc. Is she remorseful that she hasn't been picking up? Does she understand that the division of labor is seriously unfair? Does she feel guilty and promise to look for employment and clean?
Good luck.
posted by LoriFLA at 5:56 PM on January 2, 2007
Send her a link to this thread. If she doesn't act, drop her off in dumpsville.
posted by blue_beetle at 6:26 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by blue_beetle at 6:26 PM on January 2, 2007
I think there's more than a fine line between being a Girlfriend and being a Partner. She is not being a good partner to you - you are supporting her, you are putting a roof over her head, food in her belly and being the affectionate boyfriend - whereas she is not delivering on her commitments.
She might also be depressed (new country, new mores, few other friends perhaps, outside of you?)
Still, she needs to own up to her half of the partnership. I think you are well in your 'rights' to break up. But, as many others have said above me, there are definitely emotional, loving reasons why you remain in this relationship - therefore my advice is to talk with her, but make it clear to her that her behavior cannot continue or else it will have consequences.
posted by seawallrunner at 6:40 PM on January 2, 2007
She might also be depressed (new country, new mores, few other friends perhaps, outside of you?)
Still, she needs to own up to her half of the partnership. I think you are well in your 'rights' to break up. But, as many others have said above me, there are definitely emotional, loving reasons why you remain in this relationship - therefore my advice is to talk with her, but make it clear to her that her behavior cannot continue or else it will have consequences.
posted by seawallrunner at 6:40 PM on January 2, 2007
I actually left the kitchen alone for over 3 days to see if the mess in it would be cleanedPlaying games like these are usually signs that the relationship is less than healthy, if not over.
posted by krisjohn at 6:42 PM on January 2, 2007
OK so- she has a dream job that you suggested she get and now you want her to get a second job?
Keep it even? I dont know if I missed it but does she work alot less hours than you?? Why should she do any more cleaning just because she makes less?
So out of EVERYthing her pay and that she's messy are the problems? Those seem like awfully small problems. Are there any aspects that you think she may put more effort in than you?? Grocery shopping, taking out the trash, etc?
Maybe she just sucks at cleaning house. I do. I try but UGH. I just hate it and suck at it. Completely overwhelmed.
I DO agree with that she should really participate in the house stuff. Seems silly but make a chart-- draw straws, something.
But as for getting a second job just so she can pay more? That stinks. I think if she works the same amount of time as you percentage of pay to percentage - put in the house funds seems fair.
Great, terrific, fun girls that you love don't come around every day. Help her cope and deal with the chores. If she isn't respectful about your needs thats a different story. But considering being dumped for these reasons would break my heart if I were her. I vote don't show her this.
posted by beccaj at 6:43 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
Keep it even? I dont know if I missed it but does she work alot less hours than you?? Why should she do any more cleaning just because she makes less?
So out of EVERYthing her pay and that she's messy are the problems? Those seem like awfully small problems. Are there any aspects that you think she may put more effort in than you?? Grocery shopping, taking out the trash, etc?
Maybe she just sucks at cleaning house. I do. I try but UGH. I just hate it and suck at it. Completely overwhelmed.
I DO agree with that she should really participate in the house stuff. Seems silly but make a chart-- draw straws, something.
But as for getting a second job just so she can pay more? That stinks. I think if she works the same amount of time as you percentage of pay to percentage - put in the house funds seems fair.
Great, terrific, fun girls that you love don't come around every day. Help her cope and deal with the chores. If she isn't respectful about your needs thats a different story. But considering being dumped for these reasons would break my heart if I were her. I vote don't show her this.
posted by beccaj at 6:43 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
If the situation was reversed, where you were making little money, would she put up with it?
If she gets a job that makes great money, would she automaticially, WITHOUT ASKING, start giving you money and paying bills, etc
If the answer is yes, then stay with her, and work through the other stuff.
If the answer to either question is no, then it's probably time to lay do the law and say "get out and push or find a new ride."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:43 PM on January 2, 2007
If she gets a job that makes great money, would she automaticially, WITHOUT ASKING, start giving you money and paying bills, etc
If the answer is yes, then stay with her, and work through the other stuff.
If the answer to either question is no, then it's probably time to lay do the law and say "get out and push or find a new ride."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:43 PM on January 2, 2007
I also agree that earning less money does not make one more responsible for household chores. In relationships where one partner earns less, the couple often lives a more affluent lifestyle than the lower income earner would pursue on his/her own. If you're living beyond what your partner could afford on her own, then you could look at scaling back. For example, if your partner has a typical entry-level $18k marketing job for a non-profit or in publishing, what sort of lifestyle would she have? Is she making choices to live beyond that? Does she value her dream job more than other choices? Did you set a time line when you encouraged her to pursue her dream job? Did she push for a lifestyle that led you to take on debt? Those are all factors to consider.
Could you move to a more modest apartment and use the savings to hire a bi-weekly cleaner and buy some prepared meals?
You also noted that you have some debt. It's great that you are aware of this and making an attempt to pay it down. And you didn't say what the source of the debt is -- it's not my business anyway. But, in some cases, debt may suggest that you've been living beyond your means. If that's the case (and it may not be), you may want to consider whether you could scale back your lifestyle. Is it that you want the lifestyle of two people earning your income?
These are just some things to consider. They may not apply to your situation.
posted by acoutu at 6:49 PM on January 2, 2007
Could you move to a more modest apartment and use the savings to hire a bi-weekly cleaner and buy some prepared meals?
You also noted that you have some debt. It's great that you are aware of this and making an attempt to pay it down. And you didn't say what the source of the debt is -- it's not my business anyway. But, in some cases, debt may suggest that you've been living beyond your means. If that's the case (and it may not be), you may want to consider whether you could scale back your lifestyle. Is it that you want the lifestyle of two people earning your income?
These are just some things to consider. They may not apply to your situation.
posted by acoutu at 6:49 PM on January 2, 2007
I have two friends who have been having marital problems over the last two years. One friend is now getting a divorce, the other has ongoing strife in her marriage. And both times the problems boiled down to their husbands not pulling their weight in terms of the housekeeping/responsible budgeting stuff.
What I took away from their situations was that it's really important to partner up with someone you can work with. I'd always looked for intellectual rapport and physical chemistry, and sure, that's fine for when you're only dating, but if you're going to live together you need to be able to cooperate to get stuff done. If you can't negotiate goals together and count on one another to do a fair share of the work involved in reaching for those goals, you're in for a hell of a time. And if you think it's bad now, wait until you have kids.
So yes, by all means, give it awhile longer and try some of the ideas in this thread. But make sure you're realistic about what will and won't change and what you are prepared to live with.
People always think so short-term when it comes to relationships, and it's a mistake, so try not to. You're better off nursing a broken heart for a year than carrying a massive workload and getting increasingly resentful for years to come - and then maybe getting divorced anyway, after you have kids. After which you'll still have all the same frustrations because you'll have to keep dealing with your ex. So think carefully now.
posted by orange swan at 7:08 PM on January 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
What I took away from their situations was that it's really important to partner up with someone you can work with. I'd always looked for intellectual rapport and physical chemistry, and sure, that's fine for when you're only dating, but if you're going to live together you need to be able to cooperate to get stuff done. If you can't negotiate goals together and count on one another to do a fair share of the work involved in reaching for those goals, you're in for a hell of a time. And if you think it's bad now, wait until you have kids.
So yes, by all means, give it awhile longer and try some of the ideas in this thread. But make sure you're realistic about what will and won't change and what you are prepared to live with.
People always think so short-term when it comes to relationships, and it's a mistake, so try not to. You're better off nursing a broken heart for a year than carrying a massive workload and getting increasingly resentful for years to come - and then maybe getting divorced anyway, after you have kids. After which you'll still have all the same frustrations because you'll have to keep dealing with your ex. So think carefully now.
posted by orange swan at 7:08 PM on January 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
You can not change people. Accept her for who she is or move on. I say this as a professional woman with a great job, but I'm also a slob. In my past relationships either the man has accepted my messy house, or skee-daddled. Everything else is irrelevant. You can not change people.
posted by modavis at 7:11 PM on January 2, 2007
posted by modavis at 7:11 PM on January 2, 2007
perhaps she hasn't adjusted to living in the US?
My thoughts exactly. Since I've been in your girlfriend's position almost exactly, I can tell you that the degree of culture shock and homesickness which people can experience under these circumstances can be far more extreme than you'd think - and this can lead to pretty severe depression.
That said, if it's been three years, there are a few issues which may be at work here: she may be depressed and need help for it, you both may have fallen into patterns of relating to each other which are perpetuating these problems, she may truly not understand what you need from her, or you simply may have incompatible living styles.
I think that, if you love her, you need to address the potential depression first of all, since everything else may well be stemming from this. However - as others have said, if she's working the same hours as you and just not pulling in the same pay, then I don't think it's fair that she do MORE than you do around the house (but it IS fair that she do her share). If you can come up with a compromise regarding the levels of mess, and/or a chore schedule, then that's great, but sometimes people simply aren't compatible in the way they live, and you can either deal with this or you can't, you either love her enough to find a way around it, or you don't, you don't need permission to break up with her, but I do think that either way you at least owe her some help with ensuring that she's not having a mental health crisis which needs to be addressed.
posted by biscotti at 7:44 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
My thoughts exactly. Since I've been in your girlfriend's position almost exactly, I can tell you that the degree of culture shock and homesickness which people can experience under these circumstances can be far more extreme than you'd think - and this can lead to pretty severe depression.
That said, if it's been three years, there are a few issues which may be at work here: she may be depressed and need help for it, you both may have fallen into patterns of relating to each other which are perpetuating these problems, she may truly not understand what you need from her, or you simply may have incompatible living styles.
I think that, if you love her, you need to address the potential depression first of all, since everything else may well be stemming from this. However - as others have said, if she's working the same hours as you and just not pulling in the same pay, then I don't think it's fair that she do MORE than you do around the house (but it IS fair that she do her share). If you can come up with a compromise regarding the levels of mess, and/or a chore schedule, then that's great, but sometimes people simply aren't compatible in the way they live, and you can either deal with this or you can't, you either love her enough to find a way around it, or you don't, you don't need permission to break up with her, but I do think that either way you at least owe her some help with ensuring that she's not having a mental health crisis which needs to be addressed.
posted by biscotti at 7:44 PM on January 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm going to engage in a little more speculative psychology here, but I do wonder if your girlfriend doesn't feel like the apartment is her home, and so doesn't treat it like one. Housework can subconsciously be about having a relationship with a location (consider the 'no-one cleans a rented car' line) and if you don't like the place you're in, then scrubbing the floor is insult added to injury.
You talk about 'one day dream[ing] about buying a house': does she? Does she expect to be in the US in three years' time? Is 'settling down' a subject that gets discussed or filed away for later. Point is, had she been from the same area, you might be living in separate places even now.
This isn't small stuff. This is big stuff. And unless your girlfriend is just plain selfish, and I don't get that vibe, my guess is that she doesn't particularly enjoy being a kept woman in a foreign country, doesn't know the magic incantation to change things, but has sufficient pride that she doesn't want to see herself as someone who's come all the way to American to wait tables.
So stop the little mind games and have a serious, open conversation about your futures. My gut feeling is that she's taking out her frustrations on the dirty dishes.
posted by holgate at 8:12 PM on January 2, 2007
You talk about 'one day dream[ing] about buying a house': does she? Does she expect to be in the US in three years' time? Is 'settling down' a subject that gets discussed or filed away for later. Point is, had she been from the same area, you might be living in separate places even now.
This isn't small stuff. This is big stuff. And unless your girlfriend is just plain selfish, and I don't get that vibe, my guess is that she doesn't particularly enjoy being a kept woman in a foreign country, doesn't know the magic incantation to change things, but has sufficient pride that she doesn't want to see herself as someone who's come all the way to American to wait tables.
So stop the little mind games and have a serious, open conversation about your futures. My gut feeling is that she's taking out her frustrations on the dirty dishes.
posted by holgate at 8:12 PM on January 2, 2007
I'm sorry to say that after 3 years, it sounds like it's not working out. You already had the difficult talk about addressing the inequities in the relationship and about your own goals of debt-free living and home-ownership. She's not supporting you like you supported her while she pursued her dream. It sounds like it will be heartbreaking because she has other positive qualities, but it sounds like it's time for you guys to take a break from you supporting her. Tell her that you love her a lot, but that you resent having to support both of you in this ongoing situation where she's not contributing much to the household expenses (having to chase her down for money sounds like a lack of character on her part, I'm sorry to say). Either she starts contributing more to the household (and applying for jobs for 5 hours a day should count, and you can mention that), or she needs to find her own place and take care of herself. Leave the dishes out of it. If it were me, the financial aspects would be so much more important than the household chores. Give her a month to move out. And you're still happy to see her and be with her, but just not support her financially. I wouldn't put it as bluntly as some have in this thread, and I'm sure she loves you very much, but she is taking advantage of you, and that can't feel good.
Argh! Sorry. This sounds like an awful situation. Try to keep your dignity (and hers) intact.
posted by tk at 8:21 PM on January 2, 2007
Argh! Sorry. This sounds like an awful situation. Try to keep your dignity (and hers) intact.
posted by tk at 8:21 PM on January 2, 2007
She was a marketing major but always had a dream job that I had encouraged her to chase since she had the opportunity to start fresh here in the states. She has been following this dream for 3 years now and lets just say the pay is quite lower than is needed to live in this area.
God I am dense. I didn't read carefully that she was already employed. Nix my suggestion for finding more work. They rest stays.
Good luck to you, there is a lot of great advice here.
posted by LoriFLA at 8:39 PM on January 2, 2007
God I am dense. I didn't read carefully that she was already employed. Nix my suggestion for finding more work. They rest stays.
Good luck to you, there is a lot of great advice here.
posted by LoriFLA at 8:39 PM on January 2, 2007
No offense, but if she's working a job you encouraged her to get, there's really no basis for her doing more work around the house than you do, even if she does contribute less money.
Having said that, I'd have to say that breaking up with her is probably the best bet. As soon as you start "keeping score," it's pretty much over. I'd say the leaving the kitchen alone for three days thing pretty much sealed the deal.
posted by atomly at 12:35 AM on January 3, 2007
Having said that, I'd have to say that breaking up with her is probably the best bet. As soon as you start "keeping score," it's pretty much over. I'd say the leaving the kitchen alone for three days thing pretty much sealed the deal.
posted by atomly at 12:35 AM on January 3, 2007
First off, you *can* break off with someone just because you found the shampoo bottle empty. You don't need our permission, nor do you need a great reason.
I'm not sure you really want to:
Learn to communicate. You're playing games, not forthrightly talking about things. I recommend the book Messages by McKay, Davis and Fanning to learn to frankly speak and to self-disclose.
If you go through the book, it will help you understand how you're speaking with her, and it will suggest some questions for you to ask to get her to open up as well as teach you to express what you're feeling
I don't know how well your relationship works. It sounds like you are not getting enough help this instant in two areas, and if you got the help in one, the lack of help in the other wouldn't be as bad.
I just think you're not talking enough in the right way.
As far as objective things go about this:
You may not be dating someone who cleans. That's the way things are sometimes.
Also, sounds like she may be in an entry level job (my wife is in marketing, pay sucked yr 1, but went up significantly in yr 2 and promises to again this month). The salary may change signifigantly
--Michael
posted by gte910h at 5:31 AM on January 3, 2007
I'm not sure you really want to:
Learn to communicate. You're playing games, not forthrightly talking about things. I recommend the book Messages by McKay, Davis and Fanning to learn to frankly speak and to self-disclose.
If you go through the book, it will help you understand how you're speaking with her, and it will suggest some questions for you to ask to get her to open up as well as teach you to express what you're feeling
I don't know how well your relationship works. It sounds like you are not getting enough help this instant in two areas, and if you got the help in one, the lack of help in the other wouldn't be as bad.
I just think you're not talking enough in the right way.
As far as objective things go about this:
You may not be dating someone who cleans. That's the way things are sometimes.
Also, sounds like she may be in an entry level job (my wife is in marketing, pay sucked yr 1, but went up significantly in yr 2 and promises to again this month). The salary may change signifigantly
posted by gte910h at 5:31 AM on January 3, 2007
I agree with everyone who says she may be depressed or having a difficult time adjusting to the U.S. culture.
I think if you dump her now without trying to work this out you run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. She IS working. And she does seem to be pursuing a goal. It's not like she's out spending your money partying.
You say you talked to her about this but I think you need to get together with her and plan in-depth how you're going to work together to support yourselves and keep your household running. There must be some kind of acceptable bargain you can work out. Explain to her how hard this is on you and what a serious problem it is...communicate until you can't stand it anymore.
I think there's a good chance that if she realizes how dire things are in your estimation she'll step up to the plate. Give her a reasonable amount of time to change (and be supportive by working on a budget with her, trying to cut expenses, etc.), THEN decide if you need to dump her. (No need to give voice to this via an ultimatum though).
posted by Jess the Mess at 10:10 AM on January 3, 2007
I think if you dump her now without trying to work this out you run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. She IS working. And she does seem to be pursuing a goal. It's not like she's out spending your money partying.
You say you talked to her about this but I think you need to get together with her and plan in-depth how you're going to work together to support yourselves and keep your household running. There must be some kind of acceptable bargain you can work out. Explain to her how hard this is on you and what a serious problem it is...communicate until you can't stand it anymore.
I think there's a good chance that if she realizes how dire things are in your estimation she'll step up to the plate. Give her a reasonable amount of time to change (and be supportive by working on a budget with her, trying to cut expenses, etc.), THEN decide if you need to dump her. (No need to give voice to this via an ultimatum though).
posted by Jess the Mess at 10:10 AM on January 3, 2007
Of course it is fair to break up with people whose behaviour is draining your emotionally. Do you dread looking at your bank statements? Do you worry about this a lot? Do you dread coming home?
If she has a job, what exactly does she do with the money she earns? Even a badly paid job should allow her to contribute towards her own upkeep...it doesn't sound as though you are asking her to pay 50% of everything. But she can be expected to contribute in proportion to her income on a regular basis and without you having to chase her!
It really sounds as if she doesn't get the whole 'responsible adult' thing. Did she move straight from her parents' home into yours?
In practical terms - patronising though this might sound - I'd sit her down and say: This is how much I make + this is how much you make = this is our joint budget >>>>these are our monthly living expenses (exclude your debt obviously) >>>> I cannot afford to keep you/ am no longer prepared to keep you and expect you to contribute an amount in proportion to your income...name figure X...please set up a standing order which goes directly into the account from which the bills get paid as I am tired of chasing you for money and should not have to chase you for your contribution every month in any case...
In my opinion the whole 'she is taking time to adjust' argument is spurious - I have been living in a country that is not my own for almost 10 years, for my first two weeks I visited family and then I went to uni - different town three hours away, where I knew nobody and with a language barrier to overcome...within a few weeks I was fully operational working towards my degree and with a part time job - as were most of my fellow international students! She's had you for emotional and financial support and she's had three years...
If she hasn't adjusted after three years she doesn't want to adjust. If she doesn't want to adjust she probably doesn't want to be where you are in the long-term so breaking up might be a relief for both of you...
posted by koahiatamadl at 1:23 PM on January 3, 2007
If she has a job, what exactly does she do with the money she earns? Even a badly paid job should allow her to contribute towards her own upkeep...it doesn't sound as though you are asking her to pay 50% of everything. But she can be expected to contribute in proportion to her income on a regular basis and without you having to chase her!
It really sounds as if she doesn't get the whole 'responsible adult' thing. Did she move straight from her parents' home into yours?
In practical terms - patronising though this might sound - I'd sit her down and say: This is how much I make + this is how much you make = this is our joint budget >>>>these are our monthly living expenses (exclude your debt obviously) >>>> I cannot afford to keep you/ am no longer prepared to keep you and expect you to contribute an amount in proportion to your income...name figure X...please set up a standing order which goes directly into the account from which the bills get paid as I am tired of chasing you for money and should not have to chase you for your contribution every month in any case...
In my opinion the whole 'she is taking time to adjust' argument is spurious - I have been living in a country that is not my own for almost 10 years, for my first two weeks I visited family and then I went to uni - different town three hours away, where I knew nobody and with a language barrier to overcome...within a few weeks I was fully operational working towards my degree and with a part time job - as were most of my fellow international students! She's had you for emotional and financial support and she's had three years...
If she hasn't adjusted after three years she doesn't want to adjust. If she doesn't want to adjust she probably doesn't want to be where you are in the long-term so breaking up might be a relief for both of you...
posted by koahiatamadl at 1:23 PM on January 3, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by JayRwv at 3:47 PM on January 2, 2007