Ontario Tenant Filter:

July 26, 2006 9:55 AM

Ontario tenant filter: We are renting without a lease on a month-to-month basis: one of our roomies is really losing the plot and is about to be delinquent on paying rent for the 2nd month in a row. Are we going to go down with him? (the LL left a message last time saying 'Id like to remind you guys that the apartment is being rented for $900, not the $300 you individually pay'. But my dad seems to think that we are under "rooming house" rules where the LL is accepting rent from us individually and as long as I pay my $300 I dont have to worry. The only thing is that I cant find any info on what happens when you dont have a lease on the ORHT website.
posted by dino terror to Law & Government (15 answers total)

You don't have any sort of written agreement that you signed with the landlord at all?
posted by chiababe at 9:58 AM on July 26, 2006

If you don't have any written agreement that breaks down the rental responsibilities then you can all be evicted. If the contract is for the whole apartment, and it's $900 for the month, then failure to pay that amount means that the landlord can evict everyone living in that apartment.

Either get your delinquent to pay or kick them out. You could craft a new agreement with the landlord but I think the first option is the easiest and the most likely to work.
posted by purephase at 10:03 AM on July 26, 2006

The first year you rented, you had a lease, right? And you've gone month-by-month since then? (That's the usual scenario in Ontario, for those not from around here.) Usually when you signed your lease you also signed a bunch of building regulations, which will be in effect even when the lease has expired and you're on to month-by-month.

Otherwise, it'll probably come down to the terms of your original lease, even though you're month-by-month.

If nothing else, you could just call your landlord on his assertion and have him show you the part of the agreement that says it's the apartment for $900 and not $300 each person. I doubt he'd find it that suspicious that you're asking, since he brought it up himself. Don't be challenging, though -- just "huh, ok, I thought we were all in it individually, where's that specified?"
posted by mendel at 10:06 AM on July 26, 2006

My guess is that you could be evicted unless the entire $900 is paid monthly. Though, I guess it would depend on your agreement with the landlord. You could always try asking here. I believe it's run by the Ontario government and I've found the site useful in the past when finding out answers pertaining to landlord/tenant problems.
posted by jplank at 10:07 AM on July 26, 2006

For what it's worth, you can see that the payment specifics of the lease are maintained even after going month-by-month here.
posted by mendel at 10:08 AM on July 26, 2006

Purephase is right. You are considered to have a contract with the landlord even without a written lease.
Here's a link with public legal information on all kinds of topics, including Landlord & Tenant: CLEO

They have an interactive site that will identify if you are covered under the Tenant Protection Act or are a rooming house.
Roommates

Basically, if you share the apartment and your landlord or one of their family is not one of your roommates, you are considered co-tenants are liable for the whole rent individually.
posted by girlpublisher at 10:10 AM on July 26, 2006

I'm guessing you can all be evicted.

However, pick up the phone and call 411 and get the phone number for someone who can officially answer the question. Unfortunately, I don't know who that is... however, when I had a question regarding the Act last year, I called 411 and said something like "Landlord Tenant Committee or Arbitrators" or something like that and the operator found me a #. The people on the phone knew the laws inside and out.

PS, if you do get the number, please post it here. I can't believe I didn't write it down.
posted by dobbs at 10:11 AM on July 26, 2006

CLEO's Landlord / Tenant Section should have some good information on this.

They also have This very quick web tool that will ask a few simple questions and determine what kind of arrangement you have, and what laws apply.
posted by chuma at 10:15 AM on July 26, 2006

Response by poster: Ah-hah, I found their contact info (1-888-332- 3234), for some reason I wasnt finding it and was thinking there wasnt someone I could just call up... Ill post what I find out in here.
posted by dino terror at 10:22 AM on July 26, 2006 [1 favorite]

Unless stated otherwise on a lease agreement, you are jointly and severally liable for the entire amount of the lease to the landlord. So failure to pay the entire $900, regardless of the reason why, means the landlord could legitimately terminate your lease with less than one week's (double-check the Ontario Landlord & Tenant Act, availble online easily, for the length of notice required, but if I recall correctly, it is under one week for non-payment of rent). Your only recourse would be if you had independently signed a contract with your roommates that stated what each of you owed ($300 each/month or whatever)... however, even the existence of that contract would not relieve each of you the obligation to ensure the landlord receives his/her full $900 a month. You would then simply have the ability to recover against the non-paying roomate based on the secondary contract (to which the LL would not be a party). There's no such thing as "rooming house" rules in Ontario, and least not in the way your Dad thinks.

In sum, yes, you are at a serious risk of going down with your roommate. This is an inherent risk with roommates -- you need to be absolutely sure they are good for their rent. The best advice is to kick out the delinquent roommate now, replace him, and (if you fail to recover the outstanding rent from the delinquent) split the outstanding cost with the other roommates and consider it an (expensive) lesson learned.
posted by modernnomad at 10:28 AM on July 26, 2006

Response by poster: Ok, the lady said that this was a complex situation that may have to be decided by a tribunal if it came down to it, but I think the key distinction she was saying was who we are making our cheques out to. We make our cheques out to the landlord, which means that we are each responsible for our own room at $300 each. None of us ever had a lease. If we were paying the roommate who has been here the longest and had the original lease, and that roommate was paying the landlord the $900, then we would all go down in his boat if he was coming up short of the $900. This is a student house and tenants have been coming and going. There may have been an original lease years ago, but never involving anyone who is living here currently. I moved in with my roommate without contact with the landlord which would say that I am in the boat with my roommate, but I dont make my cheque out to the roommate I make it out to the landlord and by the landlord accepting that maybe he is accepting this per-room renting situation. Anyway, looks like it would be a tribunal if there was a conflict of opinions on this... As for how to kick the roommate out to avoid a tribunal and keep the good situation Ive got going, thats another question... I would think I dont have the power to do it, that the landlord would have to kick him out if the problem is that he doesnt pay his rent on time...
posted by dino terror at 10:37 AM on July 26, 2006

Here's an idea: Go see your doctor and have him write you a prescription for a pair of testicles (Hi, Dr. Cox!) . Have them installed and then tell your deadbeat roommate that his irresponsibility is about to cause you real problems, (even if it doesn't get you evicted) and unless he meets his commitments ($300/month is hardly a steep hill to climb) he can expect to find his shit out in front of the house next month and his ass replaced in the apartment.

Or am I missing something?
posted by mojohand at 11:50 AM on July 26, 2006 [1 favorite]

If it turns out that your leases aren't considered separate, and if the other two of you have been reasonably good tenants, perhaps you can negotiate with your landlord for you to ask the third roommate to leave and find a new, financially solvent roommate ASAP in exchange for at least reducing the $600 in back rent (it would be much cheaper and easier for the landlord than evicting you three and finding new tenants themselves).
posted by concrete at 3:57 PM on July 26, 2006

I'm pretty sure that

tell your deadbeat roommate that his irresponsibility is about to cause you real problems,
...
Or am I missing something?

If the contractual situation is ambiguous - which it is, confirmed here already - then taking a step like this probably declares that you accept the landlord's interpretation of the contract. So ya, I'd say missing something..

At most, say "The Landlord says, if you don't pay, we have to." Never say "If you don't pay, we will have to."

What really matters is, how much do you like the place you are in, how long do you plan on staying from now on, has the landlord been helpful about repairs and other landlord responsibilities. If it is a great place, it is in your interest to keep the landlord happy. Otherwise.. You have a lot of flexibility..
posted by Chuckles at 7:27 PM on July 26, 2006

And great point concrete! It is something to negotiate. Keeping the landlord happy probably doesn't include payment of the full amount owed - some serious discounting is in order. Remember, whatever arrangement you come to will probably be taken as an implied contract from now on. Next time you have a deadbeat room mate...
posted by Chuckles at 7:32 PM on July 26, 2006