Should I sell handwritten stories?
May 23, 2006 10:43 AM Subscribe
Someone has asked to buy some paper I've written on... A few questions inside.
A long-time reader on my mailing list has been asking about my writing process. I mentioned that I write a lot by hand in rough and then just type once into the computer and send. She's asked if I'd be willing to sell the rough, handwritten version of a particular piece.
Some details:
-- the final piece (that was typed and sent out) was short (352 words) and the rough is about that--fits on one blank (unlined) piece of 8.5 x 11 paper.
-- my handwriting is pretty awful and is exaggerated because I often write on busses or when half-asleep. ie, the document is probably not legible to most folks. it looks like a 3 year old wrote it. (woman says she doesn't care as long as I'm guaranteeing it's the only copy of it.)
-- the piece she's requesting is probably the 2nd most popular thing I've written, based on reader feedback. (for those of you who've read my stuff, it's a Victory Shag piece about K----).
I asked how much she was offering and she said that was my decision. How much should I ask for?
And, since I find this whole situation rather bizarre, I have a few additional questions:
-- are there other writers who've done this? sold rough drafts to individuals? i've never heard of such a thing. got any links so I can see how/what they're doing/charging? i mean, i've heard of writers who sold originals to people who hired them to write them (ie, sponsors or whatever. e.g. anais nin.), but this strikes me as something different.
-- since this is the first time someone's ever asked for such a thing, am I correct in assuming it's rare for anyone to want such a thing? or am i being stupid and is there a market out there that I could cater to with one-off originals?
-- should i put up an archive of my work and offer the originals for sale or is that just idiotic?
As someone who's never even been published (haven't tried), the thing seems pretty strange to me. Any advice is appreciated.
A long-time reader on my mailing list has been asking about my writing process. I mentioned that I write a lot by hand in rough and then just type once into the computer and send. She's asked if I'd be willing to sell the rough, handwritten version of a particular piece.
Some details:
-- the final piece (that was typed and sent out) was short (352 words) and the rough is about that--fits on one blank (unlined) piece of 8.5 x 11 paper.
-- my handwriting is pretty awful and is exaggerated because I often write on busses or when half-asleep. ie, the document is probably not legible to most folks. it looks like a 3 year old wrote it. (woman says she doesn't care as long as I'm guaranteeing it's the only copy of it.)
-- the piece she's requesting is probably the 2nd most popular thing I've written, based on reader feedback. (for those of you who've read my stuff, it's a Victory Shag piece about K----).
I asked how much she was offering and she said that was my decision. How much should I ask for?
And, since I find this whole situation rather bizarre, I have a few additional questions:
-- are there other writers who've done this? sold rough drafts to individuals? i've never heard of such a thing. got any links so I can see how/what they're doing/charging? i mean, i've heard of writers who sold originals to people who hired them to write them (ie, sponsors or whatever. e.g. anais nin.), but this strikes me as something different.
-- since this is the first time someone's ever asked for such a thing, am I correct in assuming it's rare for anyone to want such a thing? or am i being stupid and is there a market out there that I could cater to with one-off originals?
-- should i put up an archive of my work and offer the originals for sale or is that just idiotic?
As someone who's never even been published (haven't tried), the thing seems pretty strange to me. Any advice is appreciated.
Response by poster: porpoise, she has said rather clearly that she doesn't want a copy of it. She wants the original--the only copy of it.
I should also have mentioned that the original pieces are of value to me. I've kept them for sentimental (and other) reasons. The one she wants I've had for almost 4 years, for instance.
In addition, I do refer back to these things to lift phrases and whatnot for future pieces (as the written page =/= the final typed piece there are always stray/unused phrases and whatnot).
So, though giving her the piece would certainly be nice, I can't see myself doing it. I also can't seem to be able to put a $ figure on it, hence the question.
Also... I just thought of another question. Most of my stuff is written to or about someone... should I check with K--- (in this instance) and see if she has a problem with it? (She's aware of the typed version being sent out, of course.) I assume not, but if you were subject, would you be pissed off about it?
posted by dobbs at 11:01 AM on May 23, 2006
I should also have mentioned that the original pieces are of value to me. I've kept them for sentimental (and other) reasons. The one she wants I've had for almost 4 years, for instance.
In addition, I do refer back to these things to lift phrases and whatnot for future pieces (as the written page =/= the final typed piece there are always stray/unused phrases and whatnot).
So, though giving her the piece would certainly be nice, I can't see myself doing it. I also can't seem to be able to put a $ figure on it, hence the question.
Also... I just thought of another question. Most of my stuff is written to or about someone... should I check with K--- (in this instance) and see if she has a problem with it? (She's aware of the typed version being sent out, of course.) I assume not, but if you were subject, would you be pissed off about it?
posted by dobbs at 11:01 AM on May 23, 2006
If it's really about the process and not about having a collectable memento, then photocopy it and send it off. I don't see where it's particularly valuable outside its role of being a part of your artistic process.
If she's adamant about getting the original, then there's obviously some sort of sentimental or collecting-minded reason in play then you could certainly consider selling it. Either it means something to her, or she's flattering you by implying your work is going to be desirable.
posted by mikeh at 11:02 AM on May 23, 2006
If she's adamant about getting the original, then there's obviously some sort of sentimental or collecting-minded reason in play then you could certainly consider selling it. Either it means something to her, or she's flattering you by implying your work is going to be desirable.
posted by mikeh at 11:02 AM on May 23, 2006
Whoops, posted too early. There's definitely something beyond the writing process going on, could you question the requestor about her motives a little?
posted by mikeh at 11:03 AM on May 23, 2006
posted by mikeh at 11:03 AM on May 23, 2006
There certainly is a market for original manuscripts, but that's usually in the case of famous writers. This woman might be be collecting as a potential investment, but I doubt it because that's such a long shot (no offense). More likely is that she's collecting as a private hobby (the lengths North Americans will go to in pursuit of their hobbies never fails to amaze me), or perhaps she wants to use your work as a component in some sort of larger work, or for a collection she plans on exhibiting somehow (probably via the web). Why not ask her how she plans to use it, though?
I believe the copyright law is that although you retain the right to the content of the paper and thus she can't reprint the text itself anywhere, she will have the right to reproduce the actual paper, and can legally publish photos or photocopies of it as she wishes, so be prepared for that. And do clear it with K---.
I'd ask for say, $150, see how she reacts. Ain't no sin to make money.
And I'd advise against offering originals for sale. It probably won't do any harm, but I'm inclined to think it would be hard to pull that one off without looking like you're full of yourself, and if I were a reader at a blog and the blog author did some such thing, it would make me less inclined to read more of his work.
posted by orange swan at 11:04 AM on May 23, 2006
I believe the copyright law is that although you retain the right to the content of the paper and thus she can't reprint the text itself anywhere, she will have the right to reproduce the actual paper, and can legally publish photos or photocopies of it as she wishes, so be prepared for that. And do clear it with K---.
I'd ask for say, $150, see how she reacts. Ain't no sin to make money.
And I'd advise against offering originals for sale. It probably won't do any harm, but I'm inclined to think it would be hard to pull that one off without looking like you're full of yourself, and if I were a reader at a blog and the blog author did some such thing, it would make me less inclined to read more of his work.
posted by orange swan at 11:04 AM on May 23, 2006
Well, it's no diffrent then selling origional art work, I would think. That's how many artists make their money.
Still, I wouldn't sell it.
posted by Paris Hilton at 11:06 AM on May 23, 2006
Still, I wouldn't sell it.
posted by Paris Hilton at 11:06 AM on May 23, 2006
Response by poster: mikeh, sorry I wasn't clear. Her wanting it has nothing to do with the writing process. It was just during an email discussion of my writing process that she found out that I had handwritten versions of the things I sent to the mailing list. (She assumed I just typed everything.)
She wants it as "art"--as a collectable item.
A lot of people on my list write me and tell me how much piece X means to them or meant to them when they were going thru a breakup or with someone special (I mostly write about relationships), so I'm aware of the... sentimental or romantic attraction people have to some of the things I've written--I've just never had to put a dollar figure on it before and the idea does intrigue me as I've never made a dime off my stuff and, to me, it doesn't seem like I will in the traditional way as I can't imagine any mags or whatever publishing such short, abstract works.
On preview, I will email her and ask her intentions, but just from our casual emails, I'm not aware of her being an artist nor has she given me any indication she plans to "use" it for anything (I would think she'd state that up front if it were her intention).
posted by dobbs at 11:13 AM on May 23, 2006
She wants it as "art"--as a collectable item.
A lot of people on my list write me and tell me how much piece X means to them or meant to them when they were going thru a breakup or with someone special (I mostly write about relationships), so I'm aware of the... sentimental or romantic attraction people have to some of the things I've written--I've just never had to put a dollar figure on it before and the idea does intrigue me as I've never made a dime off my stuff and, to me, it doesn't seem like I will in the traditional way as I can't imagine any mags or whatever publishing such short, abstract works.
On preview, I will email her and ask her intentions, but just from our casual emails, I'm not aware of her being an artist nor has she given me any indication she plans to "use" it for anything (I would think she'd state that up front if it were her intention).
posted by dobbs at 11:13 AM on May 23, 2006
Response by poster: Paris, I guess, to some extent, you're right. But I wouldn't consider it suitable for framing or anything. It's chicken-scratch. :)
posted by dobbs at 11:15 AM on May 23, 2006
posted by dobbs at 11:15 AM on May 23, 2006
How much should I ask for?
Followed by:
I should also have mentioned that the original pieces are of value to me. I've kept them for sentimental (and other) reasons. The one she wants I've had for almost 4 years, for instance.
How, exactly, would you like us to help you put a price on that?
should i put up an archive of my work and offer the originals for sale...?
If you're a famous writer, yes. You claim to receive e-mails from "a lot of people" praising your work and thanking you for an emotional connection; if that's accurate, then sure, maybe there's a market. No shame in trying. But speaking in general terms, an unpublished writer touting his manuscripts as collectibles would strike me as laughably arrogant.
posted by cribcage at 11:27 AM on May 23, 2006
Followed by:
I should also have mentioned that the original pieces are of value to me. I've kept them for sentimental (and other) reasons. The one she wants I've had for almost 4 years, for instance.
How, exactly, would you like us to help you put a price on that?
should i put up an archive of my work and offer the originals for sale...?
If you're a famous writer, yes. You claim to receive e-mails from "a lot of people" praising your work and thanking you for an emotional connection; if that's accurate, then sure, maybe there's a market. No shame in trying. But speaking in general terms, an unpublished writer touting his manuscripts as collectibles would strike me as laughably arrogant.
posted by cribcage at 11:27 AM on May 23, 2006
It does seem he's sort of been put in that spot rather than claiming it. $150 seems a plausible price to me, particularly if you'd prefer to discourage this becoming a regular thing. Indeed being somewhat self-effacing in this regard, I'd probably set a price that felt discomfortingly high and assert that I emphatically don't believe it's worth that much but rather that's the cost of having to bear the burden of making the decision to charge for something that is inherently personal. Or something like that.
posted by cairnish at 11:37 AM on May 23, 2006
posted by cairnish at 11:37 AM on May 23, 2006
Selling my first painting was the hardest thing I ever did- and it was a good painting, and involved two things I was really sentimental about... a certain antenna tower and a certain girl. (You just have to see it, I guess.. or know me). Anyway, I sold it for 275$, and the buyer wanted it for reasons unknown. I never intended on selling anything.
I thought about it for a day and then sold it. And after that, I sold a lot more work--and it felt really amazing and it really motivated me to make new work. I recommend you make a photocopy or an HQ scan and sell the thing. 150-275$ seems like a good price to me.
Though I'm not a writer and I don't have any real metric for that number.
posted by fake at 11:41 AM on May 23, 2006
I thought about it for a day and then sold it. And after that, I sold a lot more work--and it felt really amazing and it really motivated me to make new work. I recommend you make a photocopy or an HQ scan and sell the thing. 150-275$ seems like a good price to me.
Though I'm not a writer and I don't have any real metric for that number.
posted by fake at 11:41 AM on May 23, 2006
Response by poster: How, exactly, would you like us to help you put a price on that?
cribcage, fair enough... but how does any unknown artist put prices on pieces (painters, sculptors, etc.)? I have no idea how they do it, which is why I ask if people know of anyone who has done this with words, I'd love to see a link.
But speaking in general terms, an unpublished writer touting his manuscripts as collectibles would strike me as laughably arrogant.
Yeah, I completely understand that. I'm pretty shocked that this person has asked for an original and if she hadn't, the idea would never have occured to me. I first emailed and asked if she was joking and she said she was surprised no one had asked before which is what led me to think that there was perhaps some bizarre market I was unaware of.
I mentioned it to a friend who does comic books and sells panels and drawings and he pretty much said it's a crapshoot (in his mind) as to which pieces sell and for how much. And, perhaps, that's my answer, but I thought I'd ask here for more feedback. He also gave me the example of Sam Brown who, to my and his knowledge, was unknown but for the people who visit explodingdog. He was an unknown, just kept doing this thing, and now regularly sells original pieces. I said, "But that's 'art' not 'words' and he said, 'True'." So here I am at AskMe.
posted by dobbs at 11:41 AM on May 23, 2006
cribcage, fair enough... but how does any unknown artist put prices on pieces (painters, sculptors, etc.)? I have no idea how they do it, which is why I ask if people know of anyone who has done this with words, I'd love to see a link.
But speaking in general terms, an unpublished writer touting his manuscripts as collectibles would strike me as laughably arrogant.
Yeah, I completely understand that. I'm pretty shocked that this person has asked for an original and if she hadn't, the idea would never have occured to me. I first emailed and asked if she was joking and she said she was surprised no one had asked before which is what led me to think that there was perhaps some bizarre market I was unaware of.
I mentioned it to a friend who does comic books and sells panels and drawings and he pretty much said it's a crapshoot (in his mind) as to which pieces sell and for how much. And, perhaps, that's my answer, but I thought I'd ask here for more feedback. He also gave me the example of Sam Brown who, to my and his knowledge, was unknown but for the people who visit explodingdog. He was an unknown, just kept doing this thing, and now regularly sells original pieces. I said, "But that's 'art' not 'words' and he said, 'True'." So here I am at AskMe.
posted by dobbs at 11:41 AM on May 23, 2006
Oh, and to arrive at 275$, I billed at 5$/hr*40hrs (200$) + materials costs (75$). At the time it was more than I was earning at my job anyway.
posted by fake at 11:45 AM on May 23, 2006
posted by fake at 11:45 AM on May 23, 2006
Picture it and a pile of money on the table, you can have only one. How big would the pile of money have to be for you to take the money?
Or, alternatively, how much would you pay to buy it back from her? ;)
posted by trevyn at 12:01 PM on May 23, 2006
Or, alternatively, how much would you pay to buy it back from her? ;)
posted by trevyn at 12:01 PM on May 23, 2006
If there's a huge market for this, it's escaped my notice, and I used to advise writers on business stuff for a living.
Set a price that feels worth it to you to give up the sentimental artifact. I don't know what that would be. Be sure you mention that you are only selling the manuscript and not the copyright.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:04 PM on May 23, 2006
Set a price that feels worth it to you to give up the sentimental artifact. I don't know what that would be. Be sure you mention that you are only selling the manuscript and not the copyright.
posted by joannemerriam at 12:04 PM on May 23, 2006
If I were you, I wouldn't sell it. I would think it would cast a weird shadow on that particular piece of writing to know that I sold off my original brain-to-paper scribble.
posted by desuetude at 12:31 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by desuetude at 12:31 PM on May 23, 2006
What trevyn and joannemerriam said: How much money would it take to make you not feel bad about giving it up?
posted by joshuaconner at 1:08 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by joshuaconner at 1:08 PM on May 23, 2006
Trade it to her for something she has sentimental attachment to, preferably a piece of art. Keeps the money out of it, demonstrates her seriousness, and gives you something to look at in its place.
posted by Rumple at 1:17 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by Rumple at 1:17 PM on May 23, 2006
Maybe turn the tables-- ask her how much it is worth to her. She may offer higher than anything you're considering if it really means something to her, or she may have more disposable income than you realize. And if she comes back low you can always say you have reconsidered and decided not to part with it.
posted by InfidelZombie at 1:20 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by InfidelZombie at 1:20 PM on May 23, 2006
Xerox the thing and sell it to her. Just make it clear that you are only selling the manuscript, and not the actual rights to the story.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 1:52 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by Count Ziggurat at 1:52 PM on May 23, 2006
I believe the copyright law is that although you retain the right to the content of the paper and thus she can't reprint the text itself anywhere, she will have the right to reproduce the actual paper, and can legally publish photos or photocopies of it as she wishes
You are mistaken. The physical document and the intellectual property are separate, and selling the former to her does not give her the right to reproduce it--dobbs would retain the copyright. (Not that it would hurt to explicitly spell that out, though.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:41 PM on May 23, 2006
You are mistaken. The physical document and the intellectual property are separate, and selling the former to her does not give her the right to reproduce it--dobbs would retain the copyright. (Not that it would hurt to explicitly spell that out, though.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:41 PM on May 23, 2006
One thing to consider in pricing it (or whether to sell it at all) is whether you want to set the precident that you'll sell your original manuscripts.
If you sell one, and someone wants another (unlikely thought that may be), you'll have to explain to yourself why you sold one and won't sell the other. You may find yourself selling others, simply because people have a tendancy to try to be consistent to their past behavior (something exploited by various manipulators).
posted by Good Brain at 2:54 PM on May 23, 2006
If you sell one, and someone wants another (unlikely thought that may be), you'll have to explain to yourself why you sold one and won't sell the other. You may find yourself selling others, simply because people have a tendancy to try to be consistent to their past behavior (something exploited by various manipulators).
posted by Good Brain at 2:54 PM on May 23, 2006
Out of curiosity, could we see this?
posted by bertrandom at 2:56 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by bertrandom at 2:56 PM on May 23, 2006
Response by poster: Thanks, all. Some interesting answers.
I will mail her with a price in the suggested range and see what she says.
bertrandom, at the moment there's nothing to see (I haven't scanned it yet). the potential buyer hasn't seen it either--she just has the typed copy which I mailed out on Jan 28/02.
None of my writing projects have had any archives so I can't link to it. However, recent emails with readers are convincing me that I should put up an archive so I may. I'll post to projects if I do.
posted by dobbs at 4:01 PM on May 23, 2006
I will mail her with a price in the suggested range and see what she says.
bertrandom, at the moment there's nothing to see (I haven't scanned it yet). the potential buyer hasn't seen it either--she just has the typed copy which I mailed out on Jan 28/02.
None of my writing projects have had any archives so I can't link to it. However, recent emails with readers are convincing me that I should put up an archive so I may. I'll post to projects if I do.
posted by dobbs at 4:01 PM on May 23, 2006
Two things stand out to me.
1. Cash won't compensate you if it means something to you emotionally/sentimentally anyway, so either give it for nothing (keeping a photo copy if you want) or keep it.
2. I'd be mildly concerned at acquiring a stalker lady. The whole "I want it, name your price" thing makes me think she's obsessive/strange. Though admittedly I don't have a collector-like mentality, so perhaps that's all it is.
posted by selton at 4:09 PM on May 23, 2006
1. Cash won't compensate you if it means something to you emotionally/sentimentally anyway, so either give it for nothing (keeping a photo copy if you want) or keep it.
2. I'd be mildly concerned at acquiring a stalker lady. The whole "I want it, name your price" thing makes me think she's obsessive/strange. Though admittedly I don't have a collector-like mentality, so perhaps that's all it is.
posted by selton at 4:09 PM on May 23, 2006
Without question, get your work copyrighted. It's too cheap not too.
posted by chrisfromthelc at 4:12 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by chrisfromthelc at 4:12 PM on May 23, 2006
What about putting it up on ebay? She'll then have to out bid other interested people and you'll find out what the market value (not sentimental value) of your work is. Maybe puts some very large reserve on the item?
But as others have said, make it clear you're selling the piece, not the copyright.
posted by blaneyphoto at 5:11 PM on May 23, 2006
But as others have said, make it clear you're selling the piece, not the copyright.
posted by blaneyphoto at 5:11 PM on May 23, 2006
You are mistaken. The physical document and the intellectual property are separate, and selling the former to her does not give her the right to reproduce it--dobbs would retain the copyright. (Not that it would hurt to explicitly spell that out, though.)
I don't believe this is true. I've seen many a newspaper article in which a facsimile of a letter appeared — for instance, as in the case of a love letter written by Karla Homolka to her former jailtime girlfriend. Homolka was denying ever being involved with this woman and would never have given permission for the reproduction of that letter. The newspaper couldn't reprint the contents of the letter, but with permission from the owner of the letter they could photograph or scan it and then publish the reproduction.
It's a fine distinction, but then the law is all about fine distinctions.
posted by orange swan at 6:37 PM on May 23, 2006
I don't believe this is true. I've seen many a newspaper article in which a facsimile of a letter appeared — for instance, as in the case of a love letter written by Karla Homolka to her former jailtime girlfriend. Homolka was denying ever being involved with this woman and would never have given permission for the reproduction of that letter. The newspaper couldn't reprint the contents of the letter, but with permission from the owner of the letter they could photograph or scan it and then publish the reproduction.
It's a fine distinction, but then the law is all about fine distinctions.
posted by orange swan at 6:37 PM on May 23, 2006
Without question, get your work copyrighted. It's too cheap not too.
It isn't necessary to copyright unpublished works. Unpublished works are protected under common law.
posted by orange swan at 6:38 PM on May 23, 2006
It isn't necessary to copyright unpublished works. Unpublished works are protected under common law.
posted by orange swan at 6:38 PM on May 23, 2006
Its a strange request, don't reply with a commonplace price. I have to second ikkyu2 and say that $1,000 would be the bare minimum I'd let go of it for...too much weirdness to settle for a cheap price
posted by iurodivii at 7:36 PM on May 23, 2006
posted by iurodivii at 7:36 PM on May 23, 2006
Orange Swan,
Yes, they are protected, but then you've got the burden of proof. Without the original (which they are selling), that's going to be tough. Enter protection via copyright.
posted by chrisfromthelc at 7:42 PM on May 23, 2006
Yes, they are protected, but then you've got the burden of proof. Without the original (which they are selling), that's going to be tough. Enter protection via copyright.
posted by chrisfromthelc at 7:42 PM on May 23, 2006
Yes, they are protected, but then you've got the burden of proof. Without the original (which they are selling), that's going to be tough. Enter protection via copyright.
Or this is just silly, since the work in question is less than 500 words - what it's worth to sell to a publisher is less than you'd pay to copyright it. It won't hurt to copyright it, but it's probably a waste of money.
posted by joannemerriam at 8:08 PM on May 23, 2006
Or this is just silly, since the work in question is less than 500 words - what it's worth to sell to a publisher is less than you'd pay to copyright it. It won't hurt to copyright it, but it's probably a waste of money.
posted by joannemerriam at 8:08 PM on May 23, 2006
Response by poster: My stuff is all mailed out to people as written. The project this piece is from had 1000s of subscribers. My new one has hundreds and is only a few months old. I don't think I'd have trouble proving I wrote the things I wrote when I did as there are many people who have full archives of stuff I've written (time/date stamped via email) as they've been subscribers since the beginning. (And of course, the majority of people delete them after they read them; but some do not. One of the most common questions I get is "Can I have the back issues" so I know there are people "collecting" them.)
Anyway, the copyright thing isn't at issue. I have no suspicions that this woman is trying to rip me off or anything like that. I appreciate your concern, but it's not something I'm worried about.
posted by dobbs at 8:25 PM on May 23, 2006
Anyway, the copyright thing isn't at issue. I have no suspicions that this woman is trying to rip me off or anything like that. I appreciate your concern, but it's not something I'm worried about.
posted by dobbs at 8:25 PM on May 23, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by porpoise at 10:48 AM on May 23, 2006