Insomnia

January 3, 2005 5:37 AM

My sleep schedule is off. Last night will make about a week's worth of me laying awake in bed for hours and hours. I don't consume a lot of caffine, I hate going to doctors, I'm not fond of taking "sleep medicine" and I don't want to get addicted to slurping down a nightcap before bed. Is there any natural remedies to cure this (herbs, foods, music, etc?)
posted by Hands of Manos to Health & Fitness (37 answers total)

Look into Melatonin , my ex took it and she zonked out like a light!
posted by keep it tight at 6:00 AM on January 3, 2005

Sex (etc) should also make you sleepy. I'm fairly sure someone in a previous AskMe thread also recommended clean sheets and a warm bath/shower just before bed, which also generally works for me.
posted by onlyconnect at 6:12 AM on January 3, 2005

I occasionally have a similar problem, and while I haven't found it to be a miracle cure, melatonin has helped me as well. You might also look into herbal teas -- a simple cup of chamomile tea sometimes works. Warm milk is also a simple remedy. Good luck!
posted by katie at 6:15 AM on January 3, 2005

Response by poster: Hey thanks!

Actually my wife and I tried up our sex this week....twice in one night! And for all our efforts, we still just...laid there saying "you still awake?" "yep."

I will go find some melatonin today and see if that works (not that the sex is bad, mind you...but it's not too fun when you're cranky as hell from no sleep)
posted by Hands of Manos at 6:34 AM on January 3, 2005

Just as a data point, I find a very stiff drink does help right before bed. Probably not the healthiest thing, though.

I tried a half dose of Ambien last night, and it knocked me out for half the night. Then I was up again, tossing and turning for the next four hours.

The only completely effective cure I have found is to shift to a 39 hour day - 30 hours awake, 9 asleep. It doesn't seem to mesh well with the rest of the world, though.

Melatonin, taken a few hours before bed, knocks me out fairly well, but then I have a hard time getting up. Same with DXM.

Working out doesn't seem to work well, either.

I guess I should take some solace in the fact that my father and grandfather were afflicted with the same problem, and all of us learned to function well without sleep.
posted by bh at 6:48 AM on January 3, 2005

My cycle gets messed up at times too. In fact, I'm working through the exact same problem right now. Melatonin can certainly help, or chamomile tea.

I've found that if I avoid sleeping at times when I don't want to, painful as that is, I can force sleeping cycle back into something reasonable. One reason that mine is messed up right now, I'm sure, is that I've not been having to get up and go to work for two weeks, so I could sleep in late every day. Now that that's over with, I should be able to turn things around, although it's not going to be fun.
posted by ursus_comiter at 6:49 AM on January 3, 2005

excercise and green vegetables.
go run or hike or bike until you are sweating and tired, then continue for another 30 minutes. come home, shower, eat some food high in nutritional value. sleep.

personally i think the excersise is the important part, but there have been many studies showing the damaging affects of poor nutrition on the body's sleep cycle. i would stay away from drugs etc. as these are only masking the underlying problem not really fixing anything.
posted by sophist at 7:04 AM on January 3, 2005

Response by poster: sophist

You know, come to think of it...for the past week I have not been working out (I run/walk 45 minutes a day but the holidays farked that up).

I think I'll make sure to get to the gym tonight.

Oh, and as far as veggies go...I'm a big veggie eater. If it weren't for fish, I'd eat nothing but veggies.

thanks again!
posted by Hands of Manos at 7:10 AM on January 3, 2005

After watching my kids zonk out while I read to them, I cured my falling-asleep-insomnia with books on tape/disc. Implementing has challenges. First you need a compliant spouse/partner.

Second, content is tricky: it's got to be good enough to hold your attention, but not so compelling as to keep you up. With fiction I favor beloved works so familiar that their plot or humor, which might keep me listening, have worn away and I can just enjoy the words and the reader's (N.B. Frank Muller was a god among readers) performance. I also use good nonfiction: Lang's reading of Caro's Lyndon Johnson life works great.

Lastly, keep in mind that this too is addictive, and it also makes listening to books on tape when driving a bit of a problem.
posted by mojohand at 7:16 AM on January 3, 2005

I had similar problems last year and I finally went to a doctor who specializes in sleep therapy. These are the things that helped:

Force yourself to get up early every day until you start to fall asleep quickly at night. You may be very tired for a while, but that's the point. You *want* to be as tired as possible when you go to sleep.

When you get up in the morning, go for a walk immediatly or at the very least, sit by a window. The bright, natural light will start telling your body that it's time to be awake, which will also start prepping it for eventual sleep.

Don't lie awake for more than a half hour. If you're awake, get up out of bed and do something for a half hour. Don't use a computer or watch TV though, as the light from the screen will stimulate you more. Read with a single reading lamp or do something boring under somewhat dim lights.

Lying awake for too long just gets frustrating and is counter-productive.

If you and your spouse are both having trouble, try sleeping in seperate beds (or couches) until the problem is fixed. Nothing is worse than two people keeping each other up.

It might take a week or two to get back on track but it will happen and these tools can be used whenever these problems occur.

Also, excessive alchohol might help you fall asleep a bit faster but the sleep you do have will tend to be disruptive and not very productive. A single glass or red wine an hour before bed might help you relax a bit though.
posted by bondcliff at 7:31 AM on January 3, 2005 [1 favorite]

We have been dealing with this in our household a lot lately. Often there's either a stress or activity [or lack thereof] or computer/tv right before bedtime component. One of the books we've found to be really helpful is called No More Sleepless Nights. It looks dorky and self-helpy but it's really really not. It contains a lot of good information about how we sleep, how we don't sleep and a lot of tips similar to what everyone has already been offering in this thread. It's a staple at a lot of public libraries, so if you feel the need to do more reading, please pick it up. What worked for us was focussing on some sleep "triggers" before bedtime. For me it's a cigarette right before bed [counter-intuitive, I know] which tells my body it's sleepy-time. For my boyfriend it's tooth brushing. We do the bright light in the morning thing and try to stay off the computers and away from the TV for the last 30 minutes or so before we sleep. Plus, if someone is tossing and turning, they have to go read somewhere, or try to sleep someplace else, they can't just lie in bed and fidget, on the off chance that the other person really IS able to sleep. Even though lack of sleep is temporarily horrible, there's a really good chance you can work this out without having to go to the docs or take medication. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 7:49 AM on January 3, 2005

Me and my two sleep doctors second what Bondcliff says, particularly about getting up after 1/2 hr. I got up twice last night...
posted by daver at 7:50 AM on January 3, 2005

This may sound weird, but I've found that my feet get cold at night, and if I don't wear socks to bed, the discomfort is low-level enough that I'm not clearly aware of it, but it's enough to make it hard to fall asleep. Warm feet= better sleep, at least for me.
posted by ambrosia at 7:51 AM on January 3, 2005

Melatonin here as well. Great for re-adjusting the cycle after disruption.

If you are overly groggy in the morning, expose yourself (No! not like that!) to some sunshine. This will cause your body to turn the melatonin (sleepy) into dopamine (happy).

One last bit of advice- don't think about how you can't sleep. Don't think about work, bills, etc. Focus on something meaningless - for example, counting to 100 over and over again. Imagine yourself walking across a field. Count your steps. I have found that using my imagination tends to trigger the Alpha waves and usher me into dreamland quickly.
posted by tinamonster at 7:53 AM on January 3, 2005

IIRC, Science Blog recently had a link to a study that counters the Melatonin=sleep claims.

I've used temazepam on very rare occasions; a half-pill zonks me for six hours. My doctor has also told me to just take a Claritin (?), same effect and no unhealthy side-effects if it's only once in a blue moon. Hate to get addicted to that stuff, though.

I find a stiff shot of liquor usually does me in nicely.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:09 AM on January 3, 2005

Try cutting out caffeine after morning (or totally). Other than drugs, I think exercise is the only completely reliable cure. I know that I slept like never before after a day of hunting in Montana (walking up and down steep hills from before light to after dark). Hopefully you won't need to get yourself to the point of stumbling, dazed exhaustion though. I commonly read myself to sleep, one trick is that after my eyes close, I keep them closed and turn out the light. If I open my eyes and sit up to turn out the light, I find I wake up and have to start reading again.
posted by 445supermag at 8:23 AM on January 3, 2005

In my experience, melatonin has made me actually sleep more deeply, but hasn't helped at all with the actual falling asleep part. Plus I feel kind of drugged up the next day, as opposed to refreshed. Interesting to know that others have had different results.
posted by psmealey at 8:42 AM on January 3, 2005

two that work for me

take a hot bath before retiring.

turn on the tv to the comedy channel, set tv to shut itself off after 30 minutes. You don't have to watch standup comedy (most of the time) in order to appreciate it, so cuddle up, set the tv volume to low, and listen while you drift off to sleep

what does not work for me

exercise after dinner - gets me too wound up
posted by seawallrunner at 8:46 AM on January 3, 2005

Some good herbal tinctures (which you should be able to buy pre-made in a natural foods store) that work for me:

Skullcap
Passion Flower
Lemon Balm

I usually take a dropper full of lemon balm first, if I still can't fall asleep an hour later, I rock the skullcap or the passion flower.
posted by cmonkey at 10:37 AM on January 3, 2005

Oh, and you won't get addicted to those herbs, but if you take the passion flower too frequently, it'll stop having an effect.
posted by cmonkey at 10:39 AM on January 3, 2005

Response by poster: I cannot thank you guys enough for this information.
posted by Hands of Manos at 11:00 AM on January 3, 2005

Are there any warnings against taking Melatonin if you also take SSRIs?
posted by matildaben at 11:25 AM on January 3, 2005

The bright, natural light will start telling your body that it's time to be awake, which will also start prepping it for eventual sleep.

What's with all this "bask in the glow of sunshine" advice? When you have to get up at 6 in the morning, and the sun doesn't show up until, oh, 7:30, you're going to be waiting for a while.

But thanks for the other advice -- my SO has been having difficulty falling asleep on a regular schedule and this might help.

An option not yet recommended: antihistamines. They'll zonk you out real good.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:18 PM on January 3, 2005

I've battled this too, except in the form of the work-from-home-wake-ever-later syndrome.

Here's what helped me...

--) First thing in the morning, go for a walk (as suggested earlier in the thread). Intentionally look at the sky. Why? There are thingies in our eyeballs that send out hormonal body-clock messages. It's a great wake-up.

--) Get your blood and body moving early as well. Briskify your walk, or do some cardio if possible.

--) Completely black-out your bedroom! Wake up with one of these. (Get the combo .) Your body clock runs on light, so if your bedroom is non-very-dark before you need to wake up, that can confuse a body.

--) Create a dim household as you approach bedtime.

--) Live your days fully and with courage so you don't feel the need to redeem them by stretching them.

Best to ya.
posted by Moistener at 12:29 PM on January 3, 2005

I am all for herb-based medicines, but do realize that they are medicines. I find it odd when people say "I don't want to take any medicines, but {x herb-based medicine} sounds great!" I think one would better say, "I'd prefer an herbal medicine to a mass-produced medicine" or something of that ilk.

Okay, rant over:

Warm milk.

Chamomile tea.

One of those sound-generators set on the ocean-wave setting.

Sit quietly for at least half an hour before going to bed. Don't expect to make the transition from watching horrors on the late late news to sleepiness seamlessly. Turn off all of the media and sit quietly in dim light (maybe just candles).

My husband finds that getting in bed with a crossword puzzle helps him go to sleep.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:54 PM on January 3, 2005

SSRIs and Melatonin? I recall mentioning the mix to several professionals (one of which is a professional vis a vis me), and no warnings were forthcoming, so I believe it's fine.

I second the exercize at night. You get a transitory energizing, but then deep sleep ensues.

Perhaps it's a winter solstice-related issue, i.e., not enough sun in the morning to set your internal clock?
posted by ParisParamus at 12:56 PM on January 3, 2005

More herbal remedies to try (and yes, they are medicines, but I find they don't have the same next-day groggy effect and aren't as strong as pharmaceutical remedies, hence why they're often preferred):

Valerian - available in both tablets and tinctures from your health food store. One caveat - check the amount of Valerian root, as it can vary wildly - some have 400mg in whilst others have 50mg - I'd advise starting low and increasing your dosage as required.

5htp - an alternative to St John's Wort for anxiety and depression which is particularly well known for helping insomnia.
posted by kitschbitch at 1:20 PM on January 3, 2005

This is what I do when this ocassionally happens to me: I stay up all night, all the next day and then go to bed at my usual time. My father taught this to me when I was a child and though I have only had to do it a very few times in my life it has always worked.
posted by bz at 3:43 PM on January 3, 2005

Civil_Disobedient: What? You mean you don't use sunlight spectrum bulbs in all your lights? I kid, but I think that this is a simple way to make one's environment much healthier.

H o M: Another sleep tip: try to maintain a natural lighting situation as much as possible, for example, not leaving all lights on 'till 2 am and turning them on again at 6, but gradually lowering your indoor lighting levels as you approach bedtime.

Interesting aside: There has been a rising tide of adrenal disorders in ferrets kept as pets and one theory is that it is caused by their exposure to unnatural periods and spectrums of light as they are diurnal creatures and have their sleep patterns disrupted easily. Once diagnosed people have had good success keeping it under control in some cases by administering melatonin at sundown and restricting light use as much as is reasonable to daylight hours.
posted by tinamonster at 4:21 PM on January 3, 2005

I love valerian, too, and agree with kitschbitch that it's much less likely than a commercial "sleeping pill" to make me feel ill the next day.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:40 PM on January 3, 2005

A 50mg tablet of 5-htp knocks me out in under an hour. If you take too much (200mg in my case) you can have extremely vivid and disturbing dreams. Not so good if you want to feel rested in the morning, but kind of interesting.
posted by belladonna at 4:47 PM on January 3, 2005

To follow-up the 'listen to something you dont have to watch' thread, the classic radio comedies (i.e. Burns + Allen, Jack Benny, Bob Hope) are perfect for this, and have led me to many a nights giggling to sleep.

you gotta respect something thats still funny 60 years later.

Most are public domain and therefore downloadable, or you can get cassettes and CDs from radiospirits.com
posted by softlord at 5:19 PM on January 3, 2005

I used to (and still do) have some terrible, horrible, very bad problems falling asleep. I cure mine with controlled breathing -- sort of like in yoga -- breathe in and out for the same count, steadily. Mine is usually a six count in and out, and the repetitiveness of it, plus forcing regular breathing, apparently does the trick. But you really do have to clear your mind. Good luck.
posted by Medieval Maven at 6:30 PM on January 3, 2005

Better than melatonin--wear socks and mittens:

Researchers at the Chronobiology and Sleep Laboratory in Basel, Switzerland, reported in the September 2, 1999 issue of the journal Nature (vol. 401, pages 36-37) that the degree of blood vessel dilation of the hands and feet are the best predictors for rapid sleep onset. The dilation of the blood vessels ("vasodilation") in the hands and feet increases the amount of heat loss. This heat loss causes a redistribution of heat throughout body and is thought to cause changes that prepare people for sleep.

In the experiment, the Swiss researchers did NOT ask people to wear socks to bed. Rather, they examined the relationships between hand/feet temperature, core body temperature, heart rate, melatonin levels and the time it took men to fall asleep. The data showed that the greater the vasodilation of the hands and feet, the shorter the time that was required to fall asleep.

It is possible that heating the feet (or hands) provides the brain with a signal that it is time to sleep. The researchers suggest that this mechanism may underlie an old sleep aid: a hot water bottle placed near the feet. Presumably, the hot water bottle warms up the feet and causes vasodilation which results in heat loss. The heat loss then signals the brain: "Time to sleep!"

Not only does this research provide an explanation for why warm feet may help people fall asleep faster, but it suggests ways of helping people with some sleep disorders. It is possible that some sleep disorders are related to problems with vasodilation. Perhaps socks, mittens or a hot water bottle would provide a "jump start" to the heat loss process and help these people get to sleep.

posted by NortonDC at 6:37 PM on January 3, 2005

Add another vote for Valerian - with the caveat that it's supposedly for stress, not insomnia. Worked for me during one of those "world comes crashing down around your ears" times at least as well as Alepam (Oxazepam), which had me a little wired after a couple of days - and a commensurate slight downer after I stopped them.

Though you say your routine (exercise, etc) has been disrupted due to holidays, etc. I'd try getting back into your normal routine and give it a couple of days, rather than take anything at all. I'm not big on taking pills of any sort, even "natural" remedies.

Downside of Valerian: the stuff smells bad!
posted by Pinback at 2:33 AM on January 4, 2005

Response by poster: I had one glass of red wine last night and one melatonin supplement...I was down for the count in less than 20 minutes. It's the first solid 8 hours of sleep I've had in a long time and it felt great (although my head feels like it weighs 200lbs this morning).

Thanks for EVERYONE's input and help!
posted by Hands of Manos at 5:03 AM on January 4, 2005

Valerian reeks, yes, but it works!

I take it [and hawthorn] in capsule form, for a heart palpitation, the added effect of easing you into sleep is only a plus for me. Take it one to two hours before bedtime though as it works slowly.

Also - catnip and basil infusion [tea, if you will] is very high in b-complex, which reduces stress, which helps you sleep.

Old family remedy: Hot [warm] milk. Heat the milk on the stove, add 1 teaspoon sugar, a couple drops of vanilla and a dash of cinnamon. Still works like a dream for my boys [now 23 and 17] when they have trouble falling asleep.

Another also: none of the above causes that 'hangover' effect the next day.
posted by kamylyon at 5:36 AM on January 4, 2005