Comments on: How to protest the Westboro protestors?

Question: How to protest the Westboro protestors?

kristin — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:08:21 -0800

The Westboro Baptist "Church" is coming to Chicago this weekend, to protest at a memorial service and funeral.

You know them for, among other reasons, their "God hates fags" websites, and their virulent and hideous protests at the funerals of soldiers. What is the most effective way to both find likeminded people and a great way to block their offensive messages from reaching the grieving? The problem with these people is that there isn't an organized group to join up with to effectively shut them up. How can I find people willing to counterprotest, and what is the most effective way of counterprotesting?

By: Mach5

Mach5 — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:19:02 -0800

A gigantic "I'M WITH STUPID --->" sign. The best way to deal with these trolls is either completely ignoring them, or laughing at them.

By: desjardins

desjardins — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:21:07 -0800

Where in Chicago? Have you contacted the LGBT center on Halsted to see if they're organizing anything? My guess is they can direct you to the right people.

By: plexi

plexi — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:22:49 -0800

Print out a sign that reads 'Imagine No Religion'.

By: sharkfu

sharkfu — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:23:02 -0800

"What is the most effective way of counterprotesting?"

Ignore them. They want attention. Don't give it to them.

By: explosion

explosion — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:24:58 -0800

Surround them with larger/more signs, and sing peaceful, beautiful songs. Make these signs respectful to the event, rather than reactionary to the WBC. If you simply drown out their hate, it'll make a statement, and be a beautiful thing.

As far as finding people, I think a lot of folks know of the WBC by now. Mention that you're organizing a jam of their message, and I think people will happily participate. Organization is tough, but if someone said to me, "come by Friday to make 2 signs, and Saturday morning to help," I would be there. Make it easy for people to help, and they will.

Whatever you do, do not lay a hand on any of them. They're pretty much fearless, insane, and litigious. Drill into your followers that you're not looking to eliminate the WBC's presence, but merely mask it and replace their message with a better one.

By: lia

lia — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:27:15 -0800

what is the most effective way of counterprotesting?

turn them into fundraisers for things they hate—have people pledge a particular amount per wbc protester that shows up per hour to the local aclu or lgbt center or abortion provider, whatever. so, say, $1 per wbc protester x 10 protesters x 2 hours = $20 donation to a cause they regularly protest.

By: null terminated

null terminated — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:28:17 -0800

I came here to recommend lia's idea. More.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:30:07 -0800

If you've seen Louis Theroux documentary on them, you know its pointless.

By: headnsouth

headnsouth — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:31:33 -0800

In several cities (including the small town I just moved away from) a bikers' group called the Patriot Guard organizes counterprotests against the hatemongers. In my town the bikers and a veterans' group basically created a barrier between the protesters and those attending the funeral. The motorcycle engines drowned out whatever slogans the protesters were chanting.

By: watercarrier

watercarrier — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:33:22 -0800

You can't fight fire with fire, and wind will only strengthen the fire. Water will do wonders, lots of it. And what is water? It's love. It flows. It reaches all low places. It wears down the strongest rock and drowns out the low roar of flames. If you really want to be effective - you pour out your heart - through song, prayer, poetry and soft expression. The energy will counter any negativity they will be emitting. This is only a test. Who is stronger - the light or the darkness. Do not antagonize. Do not taunt. Do not mock. And do not have a screaming match. This is exactly what the device they represent wants.

By: jperkins

jperkins — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:47:08 -0800

Clowns

By: toomuchpete

toomuchpete — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:50:14 -0800

"What is the most effective way to both find likeminded people and a great way to block their offensive messages from reaching the grieving?"

There isn't one. That's the shitty thing about freedom of speech.

"The problem with these people is that there isn't an organized group to join up with to effectively shut them up."

That you believe an "organized group" could "effectively shut them up" seems, at best, to be wishful thinking.

"How can I find people willing to counterprotest, and what is the most effective way of counterprotesting?"

This is completely at odds, I think, with the first passage I quoted. You either want to protect the grieving from the offensive message, or you want to use the services as a platform to debate policy/religion. Creating a counter-protest is really only going to make the funeral more of a fiasco, not less of one.

I'd also say that, while lia's idea is clever, unless the group attending the funeral is mostly homogeneous it's likely to cause debate amongst your group. Besides, in order for the fundraiser to drive them away, it would require a good bit of communication to them and would require for them to consider the situation rationally. Most likely they will just take your money raising as a validation of their purpose.

Sometimes it's appropriate to argue and debate, but sometimes the best idea is just to be the bigger person and ignore them.

By: girlmightlive

girlmightlive — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:53:56 -0800

I've seen clips of counter protests on YouTube. That might give you some ideas.

If this is a military funeral, the Patriot Guard will probably already be there.

By: holloway

holloway — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:59:58 -0800

You can't reasonably stop them but you can use them to rally their opponents. So yeah, lia's idea.

By: prefrontal

prefrontal — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:12:12 -0800

I grew up in Topeka, KS where we dealt with these crackpots on a daily basis. As such I got to see firsthand how the group has been escalating their rhetoric year after year because what was extreme 12 months ago won't turn heads today. The best answer I have found is, unfortunately, to ignore them. Everything about their words and signs are engineered to kick you in your ever-loving gut so you will react in some way. Don't validate their work.

By: cheerwine

cheerwine — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:14:12 -0800

Giant angel wings?

By: kristin

kristin — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:23:11 -0800

toomuchpete, by counterprotest, I mean block their message from reaching the grieving. I don't intend to shout them down, argue, or debate them, or even, frankly, talk to them - I just want to find a group that wants to stand between them, and the grieving, to give mourners a more peaceful morning. I love the angel wings, and contacting the LGBT group sounds fabulous. Thanks everyone, for the suggestions - keep them coming!

By: bibliowench

bibliowench — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:32:57 -0800

These assholes protested outside a high school in downtown Colorado Springs last year. 18 shrill, hate filled idiots stood on one side of the street; hundreds of counter protesters stood on the other, holding signs and acting like calm, mature adults. This contrast made more of a statement than any angry retort ever could. It was a good mix of protesting the group's message while ignoring their antics.

The protest was organized by community social justice and civil rights groups. I imagine there's probably a similar alliance planning a counter-protest for this weekend.

By: TomMelee

TomMelee — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:53:58 -0800

We had them come to our university, or rather they were GOING to but then decided not to. What we had organized here was a little different, as they were publicly protesting at a public school, NOT at a memorial service.

I'll tell you what we had planned with about 100-200 people, in stages of undefined time:

1. Peaceful, hand holding vigil in a circle around them. Speaking to nobody, ignoring them other people, but just staying around them silently.

2. Take the power out of the words. The only power words have is the power we let them have---so to counterprotest we had african americans who would hold signs saying "GOD HATES N*****S", jews saying "GOD HATES ISRAELITES", individuals of western european descent holding signs saying "GOD HATES CRACKERS", etc., to simply disempower the hate.

3. Signs saying "MY GOD LOVES", "MY GODDESS LOVES", "MY JESUS LOVES", "I LOVE..." etc.

We also talked about a way to hold up taller signs with huge arrows pointing down a them saying things like "Lost Sodomite But God Loves Them Anyway".

But really there's only usually about 12 of them at the most. I'd contact several church choirs, or a university choir, or whomever, to come stand by them and just sing louder. Or something.

Good luck. I love free speech but I hate those asshats.

By: dancestoblue

dancestoblue — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:01:06 -0800

"Power, money, persuasion, supplication, persecution -- these can lift at a colossal humbug -- push it a little -- weaken it a little over the course of a century; but only laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
Mark Twain

Liking the clown ideas...

Also liking the hell out of watercarriers post -- it's a difficult road to walk but it is the best one; my first reaction, and the reaction that these people count on, is rage, hatred for hatred. To not give them that doesn't feel 'right' but unless they are threatening someone physically it's what is called for.

By: scody

scody — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:08:34 -0800

contact the International Socialist Organization -- they may already be planning to demonstrate (speaking as someone who demonstrated with the ISO against Phelps in Chicago back in the '90s!), but if not, they'll most likely send some folks.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:12:27 -0800

We had them come to our university, or rather they were GOING to but then decided not to

That's a strategy the Westboro folks have used many times before - announcing a protest about a big news event, like George Carlin's or Tony Snow's funeral, and then not showing up:

The group from the Westboro Baptist Church expected to picket the Friday and Saturday performances of "The Laramie Project" on the corner of North Charles Street and Cold Spring Lane never arrived

And again:

The Westboro church had informed township authorities on June 28 that a protest was planned at the Swartz Funeral Home. The bill to the church ensued, according to the local police chief, because the congregation failed to keep a verbal contract for security. Fred Phelps' daughter claimed that the Holy Ghost had informed them not to fly to Michigan even though they had already purchased airline tickets.

There are a lot of no-show cases like that. It's debatable if they ever have any intention of actually appearing at most of the protests they announce, but just the simple threat of an appearance causes a huge stink in the targeted community and gets Westboro's name in all the papers. Prepare a counter-protest, sure, but just be aware that, from where I sit, they wimp out at least as often as they show up.

By: nadawi

nadawi — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:42:46 -0800

here's a picture i took at a counter protest once. i thought it was nice to have a sign that showed love. maybe even stand next to them while holding it.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/35186401_730c44c1e5_o.jpg

By: klanawa

klanawa — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:25:12 -0800

ignore the westboro nuts.

do something to remind the grieving families that there is more than enough love to go around. do so respectfully.

let god (or whom- or whatever) sort out the crazies.

By: pluckysparrow

pluckysparrow — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:56:43 -0800

Also voting for ignoring. The Westboro crackpots kinda like it when you engage them in debate or show that they make you mad. Also, something that is very important to keep in mind about Westboro: a lot of the Phelps family are lawyers and are a litigious bunch. They seem to seek out opportunities to sue people, which works out pretty well for them financially.

By: Solon and Thanks

Solon and Thanks — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:15:42 -0800

Some people who have been answering should perhaps read the OP's replies, where she says:

toomuchpete, by counterprotest, I mean block their message from reaching the grieving. I don't intend to shout them down, argue, or debate them, or even, frankly, talk to them - I just want to find a group that wants to stand between them, and the grieving, to give mourners a more peaceful morning.

Just so more people don't suggest things like "don't debate them." I like the angels idea, which gives a great message but at the same time is totally non-confrontational.

By: shesaysgo

shesaysgo — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:21:16 -0800

please post when/where they'll be protesting- i would dearly love to go counter-protest. as far as an answer to your question-
:don't approach them or engage them in any way. as Solon said, they'll just look to sue you, and it makes you look like an idiot
:be calm and show a message of love. it's the onlu way to counteract them

By: meta_eli

meta_eli — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:25:09 -0800

what is the most effective way of counterprotesting?

I'm 100% certain that the most effective way to deal with them is to ignore them. Obviously they are used to people being pissed off. Nearly everyone they encounter is pissed at them. They're expecting it and they're counting on it. I imagine it proves (to them) that they're doing the right thing. Regardless, they obviously crave an audience. They're real life trolls and the most effective way to mess with them is to deny them your attention.

The only problem is that isn't nearly as satisfying as getting into a yelling match with the wackos.

By: oaf

oaf — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 04:17:48 -0800

HERE'S YOUR SIGN

PRINT SHOPS LOVE ME

TRAPPED IN SIGN FACTORY—SEND HELP

Or a completely blank sign.

By: Carol Anne

Carol Anne — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:31:07 -0800

Assemble quietly, then simply turn your backs on them.

Please, don't try to turn the tables on them (no signs like the above-mentioned "Lost Sodomite But God Loves Them Anyway".) Implying that the Phelps' clan might included closeted gays is not helpful.

By: oaf

oaf — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:15:26 -0800

Upon further consideration, you may want to make comically large signs out of sheets of lauan. They can double as shields to keep Westboro out of sight.

By: desjardins

desjardins — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:33:48 -0800

By the way, I saw them up close when they protested a Pride march in downtown Milwaukee (around 1994ish). We just turned our backs to the WBC people when we walked by. They've come to several other Pride celebrations and I've almost never seen anyone engage them. They're routinely just ignored. I understand the intense feelings they engender (when my friend, a prominent member of Milwaukee's gay community, died of AIDS, I swore I'd rip their guts out if they came to his funeral). But I want to repeat what explosion said: Do NOT lay a hand on any of them. Most of them are lawyers and won't hesitate to sue the living daylights out of you. IIRC that's how they make their living. In any case, wherever they protest there are going to be police immediately nearby.

By: iviken

iviken — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:01:10 -0800

Rickroll them! And put the result on YouTube. This "church" hopes to get attention and an angry audience, they don't want to look silly. And what's sillier than being surrounded by a singing, dancing "I love the 80s" festival? As an alternative to Rick Astley, you could try Kylie Minogue, especially "The Locomotion".

By: Sheppagus

Sheppagus — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:36:15 -0800

I watched a tree shake lose its snow covering and dump right on top of them when they were protesting Matthew Shepard's service. One minute they were screaming away and the next minute they looked like snowmen protestors with hateful signs.

They didn't miss a beat - EVERYONE watching hooted and laughed and it didn't phase them at all. If that kind of spontaneous natural event can't make them break stride I'm not sure your message of peace and love will get through.