Computer Engineering, or Linguistics? Or maybe web design... and how do I fit travel in there?

August 8, 2008 1:50 PM

I'm having a lot of angst about whether to continue with my major, Comp Engineering, or to find something else, such as linguistics or web design. Can you give me some perspective?

Hi, I'm having some issues with my college education. Here are the main points:

I went to community college after high school, 5 years ago, with the idea that I would end up working with computers. But life, family problems and depression intervened and I've taken a bunch of gen ed but no actual major prep. So, basically, the major prep for transfering into a comp eng program at a CSU will take me 3 years. From now. The idea of being stuck in community college for ANOTHER 3 years makes me sick. I was under the impression that it would be more like a year and a half, or two, which is much more paletable. Considering that engineering is the most unit-intensive major you can take, I'm looking for another major that is less intense.

Two fields that interest me a lot are web design (an old hobby) and linguistics (a new interest). I've heard that linguistics intersects with computer science, and that there are jobs for linguists in technology companies, but I can't seem to find much more detailed information than that, such as which companies, or what kind of jobs exactly. I have seen some interesting programs, such as UCLAs Linguistics and Computer Science bachelors, which sounds right up my alley, but what is the application of this? What kind of work is it? Depending on what I'm reading, it either seems like there are exciting opportunities for someone with a linguistics degree, or that it's a theoretical degree that is only useful for academia. As far as web design goes, that's a whole another question whether to go with a design degree, a computer science degree, some kind of certification, or just say bollocks to a degree altogether.

I very much want to join the Japan English Teaching program after college, regardless of what degree I get, and perhaps teach English in Korea as well. This is one thing that makes me doubt pursuing a comp eng degree, because it feels like if I get that degree and turn around and become an English teacher for a couple of years, I'll let my engineering degree and skills go stale. It seems like if I follow that course of actions, when I return stateside I would be unhirable. How true is this?

After school, I would like to spend a few years either way, living in foreign countries or in a city outside of southern California, where I live. It seems like comp engineering would be a good option for this, because there is technology everywhere. Linguistics also seems like it would be a good idea, though depending on what languages I specialize in, it could be actually more limiting than CE. What do you think? I'm considering, if I do go through with linguistics, specializing in Japanese and an Indo-European language, probably French. Which of these two degrees would help me get a job and live in a wide variety of societies?

Anyway, I have spent so so so much time thinking about all this stuff, and it seems the longer I spend the further away it all gets. I'm feeling very demoralized. I'll be visiting the counseling department next week, as well as the career planning center and the transfer center around the beginning of term, but to be honest they haven't been very helpful in the past. I want to be as knowledgeble as I can so I can ask precise questions. I feel like there is a lot I don't know about simply researching careers and majors and colleges and programs and this and that and the other.

I know there are plenty of people here on Askme who have gone on to have amazing careers and/or travel a lot. Can you confer upon me your wisdom? Please. Give me an outside perspective. I feel so trapped in my head about all this. I search online, I go to the library, I talk to the counselors, but in the end it can't help me figure out what will happen 4 or 5 years from now with too much accuracy. Thanks for your time.

posted by malapropist to education (16 comments total)

Some links that may be of assistance:
Computational linguistics (Wikipedia)
Association for Computational Linguistics
You can also search linguist jobs by sub-field (such as computational linguistics) here, which might help give you some idea of what you can do, career-wise, if you pursue that path.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 2:07 PM on August 8, 2008

I personally got a CS degree but in a decade-plus of working in computers (web software engineering, specifically) I can tell you that which degree you get really is not at all something that would prevent you from having any sort of computer-related job. I've met very successful people with art degrees, medieval history degrees, economics degrees, you name it. I've even met successful people without any degree at all (but that's a tougher road and it can make your salary less portable between jobs.)

In general I've found that someone's undergrad degree just isn't a big determinant of their future career prospects but in the computing fields it has seemed especially true.

I would say make a concerted effort to pick up computing skills - programming, web development, IT skills - and maybe check into the sorts of commercial certifications that are out there, but pick any major you want.
posted by XMLicious at 2:20 PM on August 8, 2008

Have you looked into any Cognitive Science or Human-Computer Interaction programs?

I majored in CogSci at UC San Diego, and loved it. It combined Computer Science, Neuroscience, Philosophy, Linguistics, Psychology, and even Anthropology. I know that UCLA has a CogSci Program as well. People in my program went in many directions. Some are now Doctors, Neuroscientists, Psychologists. I'm an Interaction Designer, because I chose to focus on Human-Computer Interaction, a specialization in the major at UCSD.

My job goes way deeper than Web Design, though it's fair to say that that's part of my role. It's my job to assess the needs of software users, then design for them. I went to graduate school to study design, and that helped, but the basic courses I took in CogSci and HCI gave me a fantastic foundation.

For more info: The Interaction Design Association, UCSD Cognitive Science, UCLA Cognitive Science

Feel free to contact me via email if you want more info.
posted by josh.ev9 at 2:27 PM on August 8, 2008

Congratulations! You are ME!

I enrolled in a CS & E degree in the School of Engineering at UCLA but was lucky enough to be able to roll that over into a pure CS degree that they started offering midway through my career there.

Computer Engineering is a jobless & rather dreary field compared to web design and architecture.

"Don't go there" is my advice.

However, I found the general engineering requirements -- 4 quarters of engineering physics, 6 quarters of calculus -- to be IMMENSELY worthwhile in retrospect. They taught me some timeless facts about how the universe is put together and how to use math to analyze it.

Linguistics is, IMO, going to be more significant than the WWW going forward. It is my firm if unfounded belief that in the next 50 years -- perhaps 20 -- computers will be doing realtime translation and that most everyone will be able to read any website on the web in translation.

At any rate this is an exciting if frustrating research frontier and AFAIK it needs bodies. If I could restart my UCLA undergrad experience I would get back into that combo degree you mentioned, in a heartbeat.

JET is good but they can be picky so keep your grades up and do well. Taking Japanese at the uni level would be a good start there.

Also roll in Chinese if you can. There's about a 10-20% overlap between Chinese & Japanese (the same idea that if you learn Latin you've got a not-insignificant base of knowledge of English).
posted by yort at 2:38 PM on August 8, 2008

Computer Engineering is a jobless & rather dreary field compared to web design and architecture.

This is completely false. Who do you think designs the hardware that our software runs on? Magical fairies?
posted by jrockway at 2:42 PM on August 8, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Also, don't worry about a CS degree "aging". Things change so much every 5 years that the stuff you learn as an undergrad makes you a generalist and gives you a foundation, ideally, of learning how to learn.
posted by yort at 2:42 PM on August 8, 2008

Hi! I'm doing a linguistics and CS double degree at my university. (Anonymized for my interests). The combination opened some doors for me that just majoring in one or the other wouldn't have. Computational linguistics is big, and getting more so: case in point, Microsoft's purchase of Powerset, and Google's Translation Center. So as much as the idea of getting your major in CSE is not appetizing, try and scrape up a minor in it, or at least keep your programming skills strong.

I also did a stint in community college, so I feel your pain. Feel free to MefiMail me.
posted by ntartifex at 2:43 PM on August 8, 2008

Who do you think designs the hardware that our software runs on? Magical fairies?

There was a comparison in that statement; I just see more greenfield frontier and work in the higher layers.
posted by yort at 2:43 PM on August 8, 2008

Computer Engineering is a jobless & rather dreary field compared to web design and architecture.

This is completely false. Who do you think designs the hardware that our software runs on? Magical fairies?

I would say the truth lies somewhere between. The field is far from jobless -- in fact there are many jobs out there, in hardware and software, and if you are good at what you do you will not have to worry. The majority of my computer engineering classmates are working in tech companies all over the place. However the field can be kind of dreary. Those that aren't working have tended to go on to other things -- some like me have continued studies in the field, but many have gone on to study physics, economics, music, medicine, business, law... you name it. Most of the people I know kind of balk at the prospects of a computer engineering career; it's the sort of thing you can do for a few years to make some money (so they all say, we'll see about that) but not a lifetime pursuit, because hell, all you do is calculate and simulate and test and verify. Not good for the soul.

Also, most technology jobs you could get with a comp eng degree are localized to major tech centers like silicon valley, Seattle, Toronto, Boston, etc. Smaller cities tend not to have much to offer. This is because the work is highly specialized; if you're in hardware for example there are really only a handful of companies you could work for. Your career might be stable but it might also tie you down considerably. You can't just quit, travel for four months, move to a new city, and then start over again, because there aren't that many companies, and how do you explain this gap on your resume, are you sure we can count on you to stick around?

Remember the more specialized you are the less flexible you are. Think twice about committing years of study to something you may not be interested in pursuing. (why do you need 3 years of prep before entering computer engineering? most people come straight from high school. the whole degree itself is only 4 years. am I missing something here?)
posted by PercussivePaul at 3:01 PM on August 8, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm still in school so I'm not so sure how qualified I am to make any statements here. Anyway, if you know for a fact that you want to do more high-level work, CE might not be the program for you. XMLicious is right in saying that you can find a job in computing with essentially any undergraduate degree, but if it turns out that you have an itch for low-level programming, hardware stuff or algorithm design, CS/CE/something at least somewhat mathy is going to be your best bet.

CogSci is a really great major with a lot of very interesting job opportunities. Same goes for computational linguistics. I'm not sure about CSU, but make sure you that you're in a CogSci program that has a reasonable amount of depth on the CS side. There are CogSci majors out there that are essentially an interdisciplinary social sciences degree with first-year CS and calculus tacked on -- the lack of a quantitative background is potentially limiting.

CE is incredibly far from jobless. Outside of traditional CE jobs in hardware design and such, the grads I know are also doing other tech stuff like product management and interaction design. Essentially they have the same job prospects as do CS majors, plus the added ability to work on hardware.
posted by thisjax at 3:27 PM on August 8, 2008

PercussivePaul, as a transfer student, I have to complete a lot of lower division stuff before arriving at university. I have a bunch of math that I have to do. Altogether, the pre-reqs add up to 6 semesters. Your description of the work and the job market is pretty much exactly what I would not have wanted to find out just after graduating with a CE degree.

josh.ev9, I've heard of HCI (from mefi actually), but haven't researched cognitive science just yet. Thanks for the info, I'm planning to look into those specialties this week.

Thanks to everyone for the interesting advice. You guys seem pretty savvy, and your advice is a lot more big picture than I could recieve from a google search or even one of my counselors. Keep it coming!
posted by malapropist at 3:48 PM on August 8, 2008

Cognitive science. Cognitive science cognitive science cognitive science!

At my college cog sci was a collaboration of five departments - psych, computer science, linguistics, philosophy and neuroscience. No better way to combine computer science and linguistics has existed since the Big Bang.
posted by soma lkzx at 4:06 PM on August 8, 2008

Look closely at the classes you're going to take. There will be a lot of overlap. In my opinion, CE will teach you think better than CS. I did CE at a state flagship university, and it was a much higher-quality program than the CS undergrad degree. YMMV. You will program tons if you do CE, or, at least, you should. Again, look closely at the courses and the overlap.
posted by zeek321 at 4:25 PM on August 8, 2008

it feels like if I get that degree and turn around and become an English teacher for a couple of years, I'll let my engineering degree and skills go stale.
- the additional people skills you gain in teaching will make you a better engineer, especially if you're into the language/HCI/big-picture stuff, rather than just being a code-monkey for life.
- say you really like JP or KR. CS is a (comparatively) easier field to find a full-time job in if you want to stay in the country but move out of teaching.
- CS-type work isn't like ChemE: you can have your own side projects that keep you "in shape" whether they're for-profit or for-fun.

Last time I looked (4 years ago?) a lot of the work in language + computers was on natural language queries (e.g. for search engines and those damned voice menus). One of the ones that was hiring at MIT was Centrigram Communications, which on a brief google search seems to have been swallowed by a Bell?
posted by whatzit at 4:30 PM on August 8, 2008

CogSci! Given your interests, this looks like the best fit. Even I regret being a CS major and want to go CogSci (though I can't, it's too late). Some courses in that major may overlap with CE, so check it out if it's available. And by all means, take up web design too. Maybe not as a major, but as a hobby. There ought to be classes and research groups in that area that you can check out.
posted by curagea at 5:21 PM on August 8, 2008

It sounds like you might be interested in computation linguistics, and I just happen to be a computational linguist. *pulls suspenders* There are a lot of branches in computational linguistics, but essentially, it is the science/art of using computers to learn about human language. Machine translation, dialog systems, natural language processing, information retrieval, and bioinformatics (for some reason) all fit under this umbrella.

The good news:
Computational linguistics jobs are booming and pay pretty well. You will be able to get a job at Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, or Amazon. Start-ups will have knife fights over you.

The bad news:
You're going to need a graduate degree.

Before you give up of pursuing this field due to the large amount of training necessary, just know that computational linguists come from all kinds of fields. I've known translators, computer engineers, biologists and philosophers who all successfully made the switch. The critical thing is the ability to think analytically and be a creative problem solver. However, basic knowledge of statistics, an elementary grasp of linguistics, and sound programming skills will help you get your foot in the door.

As an undergrad I managed to find a program that was flexible enough so that I was able to take a foreign language second major and knock out some programming electives with linguistics courses. There are not many CS programs that will let you do this on paper, but it's possible to make one yourself with the help of an adviser.

As far as taking time off to teach for a few years...if you attended a good CS program you should have learned enough of the basics of data structures, algorithms and software engineering so that you should be able to apply it to new technology. However, not knowing this new technology is where your skills could go stale. Keep up with the latest releases and do hobby projects in your spare time to keep your mind fresh. Also, it's possible to live abroad and do something besides teach English, especially if you have a CS degree or a MS in Computational Linguistics. ATR in Japan is one place that springs to mind.

Finally, you might have mixed up learning foreign languages with linguistics, which isn't a big deal and an easy mistake to make. Learning a foreign language will give you the tools to understand one particular language, but linguistics will give you the tools to understand any language, especially if you get into descriptive linguists. That is not to say that learning a new language will hurt your linguistic education (in fact, it will probably help greatly), but what you learn in a language class will be completely different from what you learn in a linguistics class.

I also presume that you're studying/planning to study Japanese. That's a good choice if you're interested in linguistics just because it is so different from English. Other than that, I wouldn't worry too much about what languages to specialize in. There is a common joke that all of the linguists in this country only speak English. That just means that lots of linguists know parts of languages, but not all of them speak even one fluently.
posted by Alison at 9:14 PM on August 8, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]