Is my former landlord being ridiculous or should I pay?

July 8, 2008 4:28 PM

Illinois Renter/Landlord Filter: Is my former landlord being ridiculous or should I pay?

Here's the details: I had leased an apartment through the end of June. The was no security deposit included in the lease. When I moved in the carpet was not in great shape. When I moved out it was worse, I realize I probably need to pay something for that, but my landlord is trying to charge me $232. Is that an outrageous amount?
Also, the landlord is trying to charge me $150 for cleaners that came in on June 26 before I had finished cleaning the apartment myself. I can't imagine the landlord has any legal basis for the cleaning charge. Correct?
The landlord is threatening to take me to small claims court. My question: Does she have any legal grounds for either of these claims? Or, is rug and apartment cleaning part of doing business as a landlord?

posted by hworth to law & government (13 comments total)

Well if she can't take your deposit what is she going to do? I wouldn't pay esp since the carpet was not in great shape to start. I say don't pay her, forget it.
posted by citron at 4:55 PM on July 8

Also she had no business sending in cleaners while your lease was still in effect given that you paid to rent the place until the end of June, and again I have no idea why you should pay for normal wear and tear on a carpet, I wouldn't even admit you think you ought to pay something, no way. She's not going to take you to court.. but I guess hold on to your paperwork just in case, but I really doubt it.
posted by citron at 4:58 PM on July 8

Contact the Illinois Tenant Union.
posted by nitsuj at 5:09 PM on July 8

Well, rug and apartment cleaning are absolutely part of doing business.

BUT your lease wasn't up - I assume you still had keys - and therefore she didn't give you a chance to finish cleaning, adn that's just outrageous. You may be able to make a similar argument about the carpet, eg, that it was replaced before you could deal with it yourself.

She can take you to small claims, absolutely (why she would do that instead of deducting it from a security deposit I have no idea; this is exactly what security deposits are for!) but small claims court is exactly the kind of place where just saying "Um, Your Honor? I hadn't even given in my keys when she had the cleaners come in" works perfectly.
posted by Tomorrowful at 5:11 PM on July 8

You didn't say the carpet has been replaced... In these parts carpet is good for 10 years. The closer to it being 10 years old the less you would have to pay if the entire thing was replaced. If it hadn't been cleaned for you - you don't have to clean it either when you go. (Is it dirty or damaged?? ..or both?) If $232 is what she reckons, admit nothing and ask to see the bill, pics of the repairs or some quotes. She is kinda going to need those to take you to court, so if none of those things exist - neither does this problem...

If you didn't take endless pics on the way in and then again on the way out ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS do that in the future!! Always.
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 5:39 PM on July 8

GO TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT! Not only would they be able to settle it, but you won't have an a-hole bugging you for weird charges anyways...

1. As for the cleaning charge...he can't charge you for cleaning on a date when you still occupied the apt. Don't bring this up with him...wait till he presents the judge with the receipt, and point out the date.

2. As for the carpet. I am actually an expert on this because I've dealt with so many of these issues. Weird. Anyways, the landlord will have to present a few things to the judge:
A. Cost of replacement of carpet.
B. Manufacturer/brand of carpet
C. Manufacturer's specs on how long the carpet should last.

Say the landlord got a new carpet in 2000. You moved in immediately, trashed it in one year, and left. If the manufacturer says the carpet lasts 10 years, you would have to pay 90% of the cost of a new carpet. You used 10% living there...and the other 90% shouldn't have happened.

So I'll let you do the math to figure out if you actually do owe him for replacement of a carpet.

I HATE a-hole landlords...I think he MAY be right on the carpet charge depending on the variables above, but there is no way he can charge you for cleaning it out while you were still living there. If he threw away ANY of your stuff you can counter-sue.

IN fact...you should read up IL state law, or the law of whatever town you're in (I know oak park, has a whole slew of rules for landlords). If he did something wrong, and there's a remedy for it (ie he would have to pay you money for violating rules/your rights), you can totally counter sue. I would encourage it so that he understands that he can't just take advantage of people who are renting from him.

GO TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT. Worst case scenario, he is 100% right, and you have like 60 days AFTER the court date to come up with like $400. Best case scenario, you learn about the law, learn about your rights so this does not happen in the future, and possibly get some money back from him doing illegal stuff.

Good luck.
posted by hal_c_on at 5:40 PM on July 8 [1 favorite]

How old was the carpet?

Please be aware that in many states, there is a defined "useful life of a carpet" that determines what your relative max payout is due to _excessive wear and tear_.

The landlord can charge you for cleaning whether you cleaned or not; but ask them to provide receipts to document it. In many states, the landlord cannot charge you some arbitrary amount even if (especially if) they did the work themselves.

Over the last few years, it has become clear to me that individual landlords are catching on to something that most commercial apartment holding companies have known for years -- you cannot rely on tenants to consistently clean things so it's worth having [hired or on staff] cleaners do a standard cleaning job regardless of the apparent claenliness of a dwelling. One too many "dog urine soaked carpet cleaned just enough to look presentable" and the like. As a matter of business common sense, they are going to do it anyway and charge you for it.

A corollary is that there is absolutely no point in doing significant cleaning on exit, which (depending on your finances) is either a relief (no legitimate need to put effort into cleaning just after moving) or a hardship (the deduction from the security deposit is a serious issue).
posted by rr at 5:42 PM on July 8

Though that being said, if you know you left the carpet in a putrid condition and your 'cleaning' was going to require cleaners to come through after anyway - cut her a cheque (and by that I mean pay in cash but still get her to write a receipt) for whatever seems fair. She'll more than likely be happy to get that and being an asshole tenant isn't cool. That's how some asshole landlords are created.. and that's not cool either.
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 5:50 PM on July 8

Contact the Illinois Tenant Union.

Why? Call her bluff. Let's see if she really does take you to small claims court. What's the worst that can happen?
posted by KokuRyu at 6:07 PM on July 8

You won't have to pay anything. If they take you to court you can subpoena their carpet bills for that apartment and see that they didn't clean the carpet before you moved in and besides it hasn't been replaced in 20 years. Their ploy to clean the carpets while you were there may have been a gambit for you to spill things when moving out or otherwise have "damaged" their precious carpet, giving them extra reason to go after you and pump you for an unreasonable "settlement."
posted by rhizome at 6:39 PM on July 8

As a matter of business common sense, they are going to do it anyway and charge you for it.

And if your jurisdiction is like New York City, you wouldn't have to pay such charges if you leave it swept clean (you don't have to wax the floors when you go or anything).
posted by oaf at 10:12 PM on July 8

IAAL(landlord). Small claims court is based on the law, with a broad application of common sense. 1st, ask for documentation of the charges, and the condition at move-in, as well as condition at move-out. If you caused unusual wear & tear, or unusual dirt, expect to pay something. The cleaning charge prior to move-out is pretty bogus.

Once you get documentation, write to the landlord and state your case. Offer to pay something, maybe 100, for the carpet condition. Note that you had not completed cleaning the apartment, and will not be paying the cleaning charge. Don't mention court, but don't be worried about going to small claims. It's a reasonable experience, although time-consuming. At small claims court, you will be asked to try to resolve the problems before seeing the judge. The fact that you tried to resolve the problems in a reasonable way will be in your favor.

The landlord wanted a fast turnaround, which isn't unreasonable, but did not work with you, which is not reasonable.
posted by theora55 at 9:11 AM on July 9

For reference, I just got a security deposit back and was charged $85 for carpet/drape cleaning in a 1-bedroom -- not IL, and the lease said that that charge would be deducted but did not mention an amount. So, the cleaning doesn't seem unusual, but not having paid a deposit and not having mention of cleaning in the lease (and cleaning before move-out!) all seem sketchy to me.
posted by ecsh at 9:30 PM on July 9