Should I neuter my dog?

July 8, 2008 9:17 AM

Should I neuter my Golden Retriever puppy and if so, what is the optimal age to do it?

I realize that this is a hot button issue here but after all the different opinions I've encountered, I'd like to get some opinions on my particular situation.

I've got an 8 month old male Golden Retriever, "Cubby." I've always routinely gotten my pets neutered but I've hesitated with this one. Part of this is just bad timing. I've got a one month old daughter and my Vet is on maternity leave.

Given the time to hesitate and realizing that I've finally hit the genetic jackpot with Cubby, I'm torn between
A) getting him fixed ASAP;
B) giving him a chance to share his superior genetic stock with the gene pool and then neuter him; or
C) letting him live life as an intact male.

I'm leaning towards B, which, if nothing else, gives me some time to think it over.

Other relevant info: Cubby is crate trained. We have been working with a dog trainer since he was three months old. His training is going very well and we continue to work at it every day. He gets 60-90 minutes of running/walking on a leash every day as well as playtime in our backyard.

I think that the chances of him getting loose are very remote so chances of him impregnating a bitch in heat by accident are equally remote (and frankly, if he did get out, it's more likely that he'd be run over than that he'd impregnate another dog).

Cubby is primarily a family companion. He is also a watch dog (not a guard dog, a watch dog. I don't expect him to bite anyone, just to warn me that they're coming). He is also a great companion for my four year old son.

My main concern is Cubby's health. Most of the information I've seen indicates that neutering a dog is the healthier choice. But opinions are more mixed as to when it should be done.

So here are my questions:

What are the main health benefits of getting Cubby neutered?
What, if any, are the health benefits of leaving him intact?
Is it better to do this ASAP or when he's a year old or some other time?
Is it safe to let him breed once and then neuter him?

posted by cjets to pets & animals (36 comments total)

Spaying and neutering
posted by kldickson at 9:32 AM on July 8

About 2-4 million dogs are euthanized in this country every year, and about 25% of them are purebred. Neuter ASAP.*

Source 1
Source 2
Source 3

*unless you adopt his progeny yourself and commit to keeping them their whole lives.
posted by acridrabbit at 9:33 AM on July 8

By option B, do you mean getting a stud fee for him to impregnate another golden retriever? I don't really see the allure, unless you need the money. It's not like you'll end up with cute puppies (unless you want to adopt one of them).
posted by chowflap at 9:36 AM on July 8

Our dog managed to get out of the house, out through a fence, run down the street, go through a neighbour's fence, wait till the kids opened the door, and then got into the neighbour's house and impregnanted their pure bred poodle. Do not underestimate drive. Neuter.
posted by acoutu at 9:37 AM on July 8 [2 favorites]

Main health benefits can be found here, here, and here.

The jury is still out on the "benefits".

It's better to do it sooner than later, because when he starts marking, it will be very difficult to get him to stop.

Really popular breeds, including Golden Retrievers, have suffered from overbreeding. They are showing a number of genetic diseases, as well as temperment issues.

I am a proponent of spaying and neutering pets. There are way to many backyard breeders. He will be better off neutered.

Just my thoughts.
posted by bolognius maximus at 9:38 AM on July 8

Sorry- the jury is still out on the "benefits" of NOT neutering.
posted by bolognius maximus at 9:39 AM on July 8

You think you've hit the "genetic jackpot" but that's quite subjective. Has Cubby been subject to rigorous health testing to see if he's carrying any genetic problems that could get passed on? What about his hips, Goldens are subject to hip issues.

If everything is perfect, the only benefit to keeping him intact would be that you could enter him in shows, or obedience/agility competitions. then, if he is a champion dog, he might be worth breeding and you're likely to have great homes lined up for the puppies. Showing is expensive and time-consuming, but can be fun for you and the dog... and is one of the better ways to determine which animals are the best for breeding.

If you don't plan to show, neuter!
posted by Mr Bunnsy at 9:39 AM on July 8 [2 favorites]

Sounds like you don't really want to neuter your dog, so therefor you probably shouldn't. It is up to you so do what you want!

Some things I would like to point out about neutering (this is generalized):
1. The dog isn't going to feel bad about being neutered their whole life. Dogs are happy-go-lucky creatures and don't obsess over social norms like we do. Don't humanize your dog. Your dog is a dog, and won't be any less of a dog if you get him neutered.
2. Male dogs that are not neutered will not want to stick around. Their natural instincts will tell them to go find a female and mate and they are going to take every opportunity to do so. You may find yourself chasing your dog down the street when the front door is open and your distracted for a moment.

I think that the chances of him getting loose are very remote so chances of him impregnating a bitch in heat by accident are equally remote (and frankly, if he did get out, it's more likely that he'd be run over than that he'd impregnate another dog).

You may be a little naive. Male dogs that want to mate are escape artist...

There is no right or wrong answer here. But I'm incline to say that if you do not want to breed your dog you should neuter your dog. As for the health benefits of neutering, I have heard that it is healthier and that your dog will live a year or two longer but I'm not an expert.
posted by nickerbocker at 9:40 AM on July 8

P.S. Some neutered males exhibit aggression toward intact males. And intact males may have aggression toward each other. So by leaving Cubby intact, you are making him into a potential target for other dogs, which means being extra careful on walks, dog parks, etc.
posted by Mr Bunnsy at 9:41 AM on July 8

acoutu, your dog sounds awesome.

That being said, you probably ought to neuter, there is no shortage of terrific goldens out there. Also from my (admittedly human) perspective it would be worse to let him bump uglies a couple of times then turn off the wang action then to nip it in the bud so to speak.
posted by BobbyDigital at 10:18 AM on July 8

Our lab was neutered at two, after a long struggle between myself (pro-neuter) and my SO (anti-neuter). Here's some of the things we encountered owning an intact male dog, the inconveniences of which finally convinced my SO where my arguments did not.

He will learn to mark and despite being housebroken, you will have to be extra vigilant when going where other dogs have been. This means your dog will be lifting his leg all over the doggie toy aisle at Petsmart, the vet's lobby, your friends' homes, and every fricking bush and tree along your walks.

He will devote a significant amount of his attention upon finding an intact female and being an athletic breed, a 6 foot fence is a triviality. When you are on walks, he will be more focused upon following a female's scent trail than hanging out with you.

You will not be welcomed at dog parks. Other dogs will not react to him well and there will be fights, ranging from "slightly more serious that the usual dog park spats" to "blood."

When you go on vacation, you'll have a tough time finding a decent kennel that will accept him. The ones that accept intact males do not allow the dogs any interaction with other dogs so his vacation will comprise sitting in his kennel with a brief on-leash break once or twice a day. Doggie day care places won't even let him in the door.

The animal shelters are inundated with male dogs whose owners thought that they would make great watchdogs and companions (until he bit someone's kid), couldn't possibly get out of the yard (until he turned into an escape artist worthy of Houdini's mantle), who were housebroken (until he decided the new sofa is an ideal spot to repeatedly broadcast his doggie masculinity), and who couldn't possibly get out (his unwanted offspring are also at the shelter). Don't be that owner.
posted by jamaro at 10:23 AM on July 8 [7 favorites]

I think you should ask yourself what you want to get out of leaving him intact. Is it that someday you'll be able to own a Cubby son or daughter? Are you interested in starting up a breeding operation in the future? Or is it that the extra time you've been given is making you feel guilty about neutering him?

Neuter. Do it before he's a year old if you can. Seconding the wish to avoid letting the "marking" behavior become ingrained.
posted by weezetr at 10:25 AM on July 8

On the one hand:

You don't know that you've hit the genetic jackpot with Cubby. You know that you have a dog that you love, with traits you enjoy.

There are ways to figure out whether you've actually hit the genetic jackpot with Cubby. These are:

(1) Show Cubby for conformation. If you can't get a champion on him, that means he isn't a genetic jackpot, he's funny-looking or put together badly (ie, his front end is weird which causes him to have an odd gait, or the lengths of the different parts of his back legs are wrong).

(2) Get Cubby health checked. Glancing around at goldens and their genetic problems, you'd want to get Cubby cleared for:
*Hip dysplasia (PennHIP or OFA)
*Elbow dysplasia (OFA)
*Cancer (indirect; check family history)
*Epilepsy (just don't breed until at least 3 to see if Cubby is epileptic)
*Mitral valves and subarterial aortic stenosis (sonogram by a canine cardiologist)
*Eyes (CERF, DNA test for PRA)

Failing any of these should mean "don't breed." These are serious issues. As in possibly fatal, or serious compromises to quality of life.

(3) Get a performance title. Ideally one related to the breed, fieldwork in this case. If not, then something else so that Cubby can demonstrate that he has an appropriate temperament, intelligence, biddability, and other such traits for a Golden.

It would be downright unethical to breed Cubby without getting a performance title and health clearances. You should not feel comfortable studding him out unless he also gets a performance title, and unless you can find a breeder interested in him whose bitches are also conformation titled, health-cleared, and performance-titled, who is committed to the lifelong care of the resulting puppies, and who can articulate some manner of plan for breeding.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:30 AM on July 8 [4 favorites]

On the other hand:

There are health benefits to remaining intact to full adulthood, at least for males. I can't recall what they are now, but biscotti will probably chime in when she gets back from work at like 8:30. She said this before. Which also reminds me that the big health benefit is reducing the risk of osteosarcoma and prostate cancer.

Likewise, many of the benefits from neutering are, and should be, achievable in other ways. If your dog is humping, train him not to from the first time. If your dog is roaming, keep him inside or on a lead at all times until you get a better fence/dog run. If your dog marks inside, train him not to from the very first time. None of these are rocket science.

None of this means that neutering young isn't the right thing for you and Cubby.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:41 AM on July 8

C) letting him live life as an intact male.

If you mean what I think you do, this is not a good reason to leave him intact. The life of an intact dog is not the fruition of his desires and a more colorful, interesting life or anything like that. The biggest differences between the lives of a neutered and intact dog are probably that the intact dog is going to experience ongoing frustration and anxiety that the neutered dog won't.

Dogs aren't people. As soon as the scar heals, they don't give a shit that they had their balls cut off. They're not embarrassed by their lack of balls. They don't feel shame in lacking the urges that intact dogs have. They're not locked out of normal dog society and normal dog relationships because they don't have nuts. Etc.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:46 AM on July 8

I applaud you for asking this question. Please get your dog neutered asap.

I would not wait until your vet returns from maternity leave. Ask everyone you know to recommend a good veterinarian to consult now. In any case, everyone should have the name of a good veterinarian on hand in case a pet has an emergency.
posted by valannc at 10:59 AM on July 8

Neuter. Unless Cubby is a showdog and/or you are prepared to adopt and take responsibility for all of Cubby's potential (and likely) spawn then it would be selfish/naiive to keep him intact. There are many more "superior" dogs than there are good homes. And even if your inclination that Cubby is a "genetic jackpot" happens to be accurate, well, this does not mean that the first receptive bitch Cubby finds when he inevitably bolts from the garage door or digs an escape route under your fence will be so similarly matched. Would you like to adopt six high-strung and aggressive Golden/Pitbull/Border Collies?
posted by applemeat at 11:02 AM on July 8

Is it safe to let him breed once and then neuter him?

It may be safe for him, but it's not safe for the millions of other dogs who will die this year because too many people chose not to neuter their animals.

Your dog is special to you, but he's not "superior" compared to all the other dogs in the world. The world does not need your dog's input into the gene pool. What it does need is fewer dogs. The responsible and caring thing to do is to neuter yours.
posted by lemuria at 11:12 AM on July 8 [2 favorites]

These people may have an opinion: rescue groups with "golden retriever" in their name

What makes you think that your dog has better genes than any of the golden retrievers currently waiting for homes? I really don't mean this in a snippy way, honest. If you can answer that question in a businesslike manner (as if you were putting together a business plan for a bank) then by all means, leave Cubby intact and plan to become a breeder that takes a genuine interest in improving the breed. Please don't become a one-off hobbyist breeder. There are too many puppies out there already.

And also, may I see a picture of Cubby, please? Golden retriever puppies are the best!
posted by SuperSquirrel at 11:15 AM on July 8 [1 favorite]

What, you don't think you'll be able to clone him in ten years?


Get him snipped.
In my very anecdotal experience, the longer you wait, the bigger your dog will get. Anyone who knows anything will probably tell me that I'm completely wrong, but it's just my own casual observation.
posted by terpia at 11:17 AM on July 8

Just so you know, un-fixed male dogs will break down a door to get to a female in heat.

As an anecdote, our Shih Tzu was never fixed (my dad's decision, I was only 10 when we got him). The dog used to hump everything, and it was really embarrassing. When he was older he developed some kind of growths on his butt that was related to the excess testosterone...and he had to have surgery to have them removed. And he died as a result of complications of the surgery.
posted by radioamy at 11:31 AM on July 8

Lots of really great advice here.

As for the other part of your question, I'm not a dog expert, but I believe that males can be neutered as early as 8 weeks. So your 8-month-old is plenty old enough to have it done - and you might want to hurry it up before he reaches adulthood (1 year).

For males it's such an easy grip-n-snip procedure that there is no need to wait for your regular vet to get off maternity leave. Go ahead and get it done.
posted by GardenGal at 11:58 AM on July 8

Another anecdote: When my mother was a child, she and her family had a female spaniel-type mutt. This being the 1940's (and they being working-class/poor) they did not have this dog spayed. So it was perhaps little surprise that their dog got pregnant, but how not to marvel at the tricky logistics?: She got pregnant THROUGH A CHAIN-LINK FENCE. (This is not speculation, the acrobatic act was witnessed--and interrupted with a broom--but apparently not soon enough.) Don't underestimate the power and cunning of your dog's natural drives.
posted by applemeat at 12:01 PM on July 8

Neuter, neuter, neuter!

On top of behavioral and health benefits (and not to mention overpopulation!), I think MANY cities charge MORE for licensing intact dogs than they do for neutered dogs. Here in Fontana, a 1-year license for a spayed/neutered dog is $10 but for an intact dog it would be $60.
posted by Yoshi Ayarane at 12:01 PM on July 8

I think maybe you want to breed him once so you can have another one just like him...but there will never be another one just like him, relation or not. Neuter him, enjoy him, and then when the time comes to get another dog...love the new dog on his own merits, not in comparison to the magnificent Cubby.
posted by kattyann at 12:10 PM on July 8

Take a look at this flowchart and see where you fall. It's from a Sharpei site but it applies to all breeds, really.
posted by lysistrata at 12:12 PM on July 8 [1 favorite]

Neuter, unless you do everything that ROU_Xenophobe says.

If it's an image problem for you, or if you'd like to believe that it matters to the dog, you can get Cubby some Neuticles. They're like truck nuts, only not available in an array of designer colors and patterns. Also, DIY installation is not recommended.
posted by mumkin at 12:31 PM on July 8

I would not wait until your vet returns from maternity leave.

This is just silly.

There are plenty of valid reasons to neuter a dog, especially in North America where dog ownership tends to be quite lax. There are also valid reasons not to, though that does impose a higher degree of responsibility on the dog owner that is, in the US and Canada anyway, often lacking.

But even if you're doing it, rushing out to get it done RIGHT THIS MINUTE is silly. Better to wait until your vet is off maternity leave so it's done by someone who's seen your dog before, who has your dog's records and notes about them in her own hand, and who will see your dog again.

No, not because castration is such a difficult procedure. So that when they have Cubby shaved and about to go under the knife, the vet can say "Hey, there's a lump there... was that there before?" and look at her very own notes in her own hand and find that it is in fact new. Or so that, if you get it done a bit later, you can have his hips x-rayed while he's out to check on his prognosis for dysplasia.

It's a chance to have it done in the context of a long-term vet-patient relationship, instead of just having it done. That's a valuable thing.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:04 PM on July 8

P.S. Some neutered males exhibit aggression toward intact males.

We had a next door neighbor with an intact male doberman. We have a (neutered) Shepherd mix.

Our dog gets along great with most dogs generally. He loves to romp with other large dogs. And usually he has great recall. Our neighbor's dog, however, brought out some really problematic behavior issues in our dog. If the two dogs were out in their yards at the same time, they would fence fight until one of the dogs was dragged away. And I mean literally dragged away- he would run right past me, pull his head back out of his collar, and really resist being distanced from the other dog. We got complaints from the other neighbors about the racket the two dogs made. We tried citronella collars, ultrasonic bark suppressors, and a good spray with the garden hose but nothing would break our dog's obsession with that doberman. We had to keep all our doors closed, all the time, even in the summer, or our dog would make a dash for the fenceline the minute that dobie stepped outside.

This went on for years. The only thing that fixed it was moving away a year ago. The place we moved to has dogs living with all three adjoining yards, and our dog hasn't engaged any of them ever, because they are all neutered like he is.

You may not have any neighbors with dogs now, but that doesn't mean you won't ever, and even if you can keep your dog inside your yard, you won't be able to control how other dogs react to him.
posted by ambrosia at 1:30 PM on July 8 [1 favorite]

The place we moved to has dogs living with all three adjoining yards, and our dog hasn't engaged any of them ever, because they are all neutered like he isour dog doesn't dislike any of the new ones.

A male being intact can play a part, to be sure, but it's hardly an on-off switch. Dogs can like, dislike, and detest each other for plenty of other reasons. Including neutered dogs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:05 PM on July 8

Fair point, ROU_Xenophobe, I was using shorthand. Besides the dobie next door, I've only ever seen my dog behave that way with other intact male dogs. I know correlation is not the same as causation. It's entirely possible that the few dogs my dog has ever reacted that negatively to triggered that response for some other reason, and it's merely a coincidence that they all happened to be intact. It's possible. I just wanted to present to the OP that his intact dog *might* be a catalyst for some undesired behavior on the part of other dogs, and it's not unheard of for fixed males to attack intact ones, and that possibility ought to be factored into his decision as to whether or not to neuter his dog.
posted by ambrosia at 2:28 PM on July 8

I just wanted to present to the OP that his intact dog *might* be a catalyst for some undesired behavior on the part of other dogs

No disagreement there.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:39 PM on July 8

Chiming in to say please neuter.

My family bred Max the Wonder Dog. This was a handsome, brave, formidable show class Alsatian from winning lineage who saved my uncle's life on one very memorable occasion.

He was bred with a champion bitch, and we still have two grown dogs from that litter. Both whom, while very attractive, are dumber than the proverbial box of rocks.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:55 PM on July 8

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all of you taking the time to answer, particularly RUO_Xenophobe for all of the info on both sides of the question. I "bested" one of RUO's answers because I think that's exactly what I'm going to do: Have Cubby's regular vet handle the procedure. But that best answer is also for RUO's body of work in this thread.

I also "bested" Lysistrata's answer because I thought the flow chart was excellent and it gave the perfect definition of why I wanted to breed him. To "improve the breed." It would have been a labor of love and would have ended up costing me money, no doubt.

At the end of the day, what convinced me to neuter was that even if I could prevent Cubby from impregnating another dog (and I still believe I can, despite all of the anecdotes), I can't prevent the desire. Thwarted sexuality doesn't sound like much fun at all. After all, what's the point of having a pair of balls if you can't use them?
posted by cjets at 4:30 PM on July 8

Just one thing, if you got Cubby from a breeder, they will have kept the "best" pups for future breeding, so Cubby's genes will continue within the gene pool.
posted by kjs4 at 6:30 PM on July 8

Yea, if you're not a "breeder" don't "breed" your dog, especially not a Golden. They deserve better.
posted by TomMelee at 7:58 PM on July 8