The Hole is Just Too Small, Mommy!
July 2, 2008 6:11 AM Subscribe
AskMe, I need a new toilet! The one we have now just isn't cutting it, so to speak...
So a year or two ago we got one of those "low flow" toilets from Kohler or something, and it just doesn't work well at all. It seems like every other week the thing is clogged, and after a while this has gotten very annoying. Our other toilet, which is an older, non "low flow" model, has no such troubles. So we need a new toilet.
What brand and/or model can you guys recommend? We'd like to get a low-flow one for the water savings, but if it won't have any power, it's just not worth it. Another major concern is price; while we don't want to cheap out and get something that will break in a month, we don't really have the money for a $4,000 toilet (even if it is made of gold).
In short: What kind of toilet should I get that doesn't waste too much water, but has enough power to not clog every week?
So a year or two ago we got one of those "low flow" toilets from Kohler or something, and it just doesn't work well at all. It seems like every other week the thing is clogged, and after a while this has gotten very annoying. Our other toilet, which is an older, non "low flow" model, has no such troubles. So we need a new toilet.
What brand and/or model can you guys recommend? We'd like to get a low-flow one for the water savings, but if it won't have any power, it's just not worth it. Another major concern is price; while we don't want to cheap out and get something that will break in a month, we don't really have the money for a $4,000 toilet (even if it is made of gold).
In short: What kind of toilet should I get that doesn't waste too much water, but has enough power to not clog every week?
See also this, for other ideas on how to address the problem without replacement.
posted by beagle at 6:31 AM on July 2, 2008
posted by beagle at 6:31 AM on July 2, 2008
Response by poster: beagle: we've tried your idea about flushing before the TP, to no effect. This toilet is ridiculously underpowered.
I'll look into the vent thing, but we've never been very happy with this toilet. There's no chance that a better toilet would fix the problem?
posted by DMan at 6:33 AM on July 2, 2008
I'll look into the vent thing, but we've never been very happy with this toilet. There's no chance that a better toilet would fix the problem?
posted by DMan at 6:33 AM on July 2, 2008
2nd checking the drain and vent.
If you still go with replacement, check out Toto. According to our architect (a man who, among other things, knows his toilets), Toto is "the only company that got low-flow right."
We have three toilets. Two are Toto, one is a Kohler. The Kohler is the only one that, um, how can I say this politely? Well, it leaves skidmarks. The Totos get rid of everything.
The Totos also have these awesome seats that lower themselves. It's the coolest thing ever. You just flick it down and they slowly lower without slamming. I guess I could install one on the Kohler, but it would still leave skidmarks.
posted by bondcliff at 6:39 AM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you still go with replacement, check out Toto. According to our architect (a man who, among other things, knows his toilets), Toto is "the only company that got low-flow right."
We have three toilets. Two are Toto, one is a Kohler. The Kohler is the only one that, um, how can I say this politely? Well, it leaves skidmarks. The Totos get rid of everything.
The Totos also have these awesome seats that lower themselves. It's the coolest thing ever. You just flick it down and they slowly lower without slamming. I guess I could install one on the Kohler, but it would still leave skidmarks.
posted by bondcliff at 6:39 AM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: (a man who, among other things, knows his toilets)
...clearly, a label we should all strive for.
posted by DMan at 6:43 AM on July 2, 2008
...clearly, a label we should all strive for.
posted by DMan at 6:43 AM on July 2, 2008
Nthing Toto. We've had ours for 5 or 6 years now. I'm completely satisfied with it.
I'm not sure how I'd clog it even if I /wanted/ to.
Shop around, too. You can buy them online and have them shipped to your house. We saved a nice chunk 'o cash doing this, shipping a toilet from Georgia directly to upstate NY. Arrived perfectly intact, well padded.
We also have the slow-lowering-seat-&-lid. It's a simple thing, but it feels like a luxury to watch it gently descend into place.
posted by Wild_Eep at 6:56 AM on July 2, 2008
I'm not sure how I'd clog it even if I /wanted/ to.
Shop around, too. You can buy them online and have them shipped to your house. We saved a nice chunk 'o cash doing this, shipping a toilet from Georgia directly to upstate NY. Arrived perfectly intact, well padded.
We also have the slow-lowering-seat-&-lid. It's a simple thing, but it feels like a luxury to watch it gently descend into place.
posted by Wild_Eep at 6:56 AM on July 2, 2008
The Totos are definitely at the top end of the low-flow spectrum. We have an American Standard Champion that's a few years old, and is mostly awesome (there are occasions when it needs the ol' double-flush).
One thing to keep in mind is that round bowls are generally more efficient for full cleansing of the bowl than elongated bowls.
The Totos ARE a bit pricy, though, and in our case the one local place that sells them acted like such insane jerks (we weren't willing to spend a grand on a toilet, so the salesperson literally walked away from us in mid-sentence to talk to someone looking at a higher-priced model) that I wasn't willing to spend money on them at the time. A bit unfair to Toto on my part, but oh well.
posted by ahhgrr at 7:09 AM on July 2, 2008
One thing to keep in mind is that round bowls are generally more efficient for full cleansing of the bowl than elongated bowls.
The Totos ARE a bit pricy, though, and in our case the one local place that sells them acted like such insane jerks (we weren't willing to spend a grand on a toilet, so the salesperson literally walked away from us in mid-sentence to talk to someone looking at a higher-priced model) that I wasn't willing to spend money on them at the time. A bit unfair to Toto on my part, but oh well.
posted by ahhgrr at 7:09 AM on July 2, 2008
Yeah, Toto made the original low-flow and the rest have scrambled to catch up.
I design plumbing for a living. El cheapo jobs get American Standard. Cadillacs get Totos. If I replace the toilet in my bathroom later this year (old wall-mounted tank+ shifting house = poor flapper seal) it will be a Toto, even if I have to save up for it.
In the mean time, for you, if you've got a wicked shit coming on, flush while you go, so it can't collect in the bowl.
posted by notsnot at 7:53 AM on July 2, 2008
I design plumbing for a living. El cheapo jobs get American Standard. Cadillacs get Totos. If I replace the toilet in my bathroom later this year (old wall-mounted tank+ shifting house = poor flapper seal) it will be a Toto, even if I have to save up for it.
In the mean time, for you, if you've got a wicked shit coming on, flush while you go, so it can't collect in the bowl.
posted by notsnot at 7:53 AM on July 2, 2008
My enthusiasm for this question finally prompted me to join Mefi just to throw in my two -- err, cents? I'm going to make a shout out (flush out?) to the Gerber Viper.
A few months ago I found myself toilet shopping. The Toto's are indeed the Cadillacs of thrones (and often found in the better hotels), but $$$.
When I first stumbled on the Gerber, I thought "how could I NOT buy a toilet named the Viper?" Then I saw this video (wmv link), which really got me much more interested than is natural when it comes to plumbing.
Better yet, the Viper sells for under $150, at least when I bought mine last year. However, Gerber is not a common name in retail stores -- you'll typically find them at plumbing supply dealers.
I've now had the Viper (I just like saying that) for about six months. This toilet does not use tricks like power-assist or vacuum, but somehow they have designed a "conventional" low-flow toilet which -- how can I put this delicately -- gets it all down in one gulp. Better yet, no reminders left behind, either.
As this is my first Mefi post, let me note that I have no formal connection to Gerber or any toilet manufacturer, other than as a satisfied customer.
posted by thebordella at 7:56 AM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
A few months ago I found myself toilet shopping. The Toto's are indeed the Cadillacs of thrones (and often found in the better hotels), but $$$.
When I first stumbled on the Gerber, I thought "how could I NOT buy a toilet named the Viper?" Then I saw this video (wmv link), which really got me much more interested than is natural when it comes to plumbing.
Better yet, the Viper sells for under $150, at least when I bought mine last year. However, Gerber is not a common name in retail stores -- you'll typically find them at plumbing supply dealers.
I've now had the Viper (I just like saying that) for about six months. This toilet does not use tricks like power-assist or vacuum, but somehow they have designed a "conventional" low-flow toilet which -- how can I put this delicately -- gets it all down in one gulp. Better yet, no reminders left behind, either.
As this is my first Mefi post, let me note that I have no formal connection to Gerber or any toilet manufacturer, other than as a satisfied customer.
posted by thebordella at 7:56 AM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I will also chime in and say that Totos are the best. We redid our bathrooms about a year ago and used Toto toilets in both of them. They have been wonderful. I will also link to my comment in another thread. (I will note in my comment I linked to the review sites do also say that the Gerber is really good like thebordella does above)
I will also say that Toto toilets are not much more expensive than a regular toilet. Their Drake models are between $200-300.
posted by bove at 7:59 AM on July 2, 2008
I will also say that Toto toilets are not much more expensive than a regular toilet. Their Drake models are between $200-300.
posted by bove at 7:59 AM on July 2, 2008
Toto Drake. Totally satisfied. Here's a site with some reviews of different brands.
posted by true at 8:14 AM on July 2, 2008
posted by true at 8:14 AM on July 2, 2008
Have you considered a dual-flush toilet? One button for urine (which gets flushed with a small amount of water) and another button for solid waste (which gets a larger flush). I've used them at other people's houses and they work great. Maybe someone else can recommend a brand; looks the the beloved Toto has one.
posted by Mender at 8:18 AM on July 2, 2008
posted by Mender at 8:18 AM on July 2, 2008
I recently saw that Costco has a dual flush toilet for @ USD150. Might be worth checking out.
posted by theora55 at 9:03 AM on July 2, 2008
posted by theora55 at 9:03 AM on July 2, 2008
Response by poster: The only problem I foresee with checking the vent thing is that I have no idea how to trace that or how to figure out where it comes out on the roof. We'll check to make sure the tank is filling up enough.
So Toto is the way to go, alright. The price for the Drake doesn't look too unreasonable, although that dual-flush one looks quite expensive.
I'll never be able to go into the bathroom again without thinking of the Wizard of Oz.
posted by DMan at 9:05 AM on July 2, 2008
So Toto is the way to go, alright. The price for the Drake doesn't look too unreasonable, although that dual-flush one looks quite expensive.
I'll never be able to go into the bathroom again without thinking of the Wizard of Oz.
posted by DMan at 9:05 AM on July 2, 2008
A couple of months ago I was standing in the store shopping for a new toilet. Actually, two new toilets. I had my plumber (who is also a personal friend) who does a lot of new installations on the phone and listed off the available brands: Kohler, American Standard, Toto. All were low-flow pots of various sorts of course, since that's all you can buy these days. Paraphrasing, he said this:
Kohler is terrible. They're like KitchenAid or Sony -- they used to be pretty good but now sell cheap junk and and are trading on their name and reputation. Avoid.
American Standard is fine if you don't get the Toto. Perfectly good toilet.
"Get the Toto." He said that verbatim.
I followed his advice and got the Toto. It's a good can and despite the fact that there are paper-happy young children in the house I've yet to see clogging or stoppage of any kind. The thing flushes like a torpedo launcher using very little water.
posted by majick at 10:19 AM on July 2, 2008
Kohler is terrible. They're like KitchenAid or Sony -- they used to be pretty good but now sell cheap junk and and are trading on their name and reputation. Avoid.
American Standard is fine if you don't get the Toto. Perfectly good toilet.
"Get the Toto." He said that verbatim.
I followed his advice and got the Toto. It's a good can and despite the fact that there are paper-happy young children in the house I've yet to see clogging or stoppage of any kind. The thing flushes like a torpedo launcher using very little water.
posted by majick at 10:19 AM on July 2, 2008
Yet another Toto fan. I grew up in a house with the worst, slowest, crappiest European toilets I've ever encountered. Now my home office has a Toto, and I'm still happy with every flush.
However, if the price of a Toto is too steep, they make some knockoffs. The key is the flapper, the rubber disc that lifts up when you operate the flush handle. Totos have HUGE flappers, bigger than bagels. Most other brands have little ones barely the size of a McDonalds plain hamburger. If you make it into a toilet store, look in the tanks and compare flapper sizes.
But, if you have the cash to spend, go Toto and enjoy watching your waste disappear.
posted by Doctor Suarez at 10:43 AM on July 2, 2008
However, if the price of a Toto is too steep, they make some knockoffs. The key is the flapper, the rubber disc that lifts up when you operate the flush handle. Totos have HUGE flappers, bigger than bagels. Most other brands have little ones barely the size of a McDonalds plain hamburger. If you make it into a toilet store, look in the tanks and compare flapper sizes.
But, if you have the cash to spend, go Toto and enjoy watching your waste disappear.
posted by Doctor Suarez at 10:43 AM on July 2, 2008
"how could I NOT buy a toilet named the Viper?"
I would always be thinking of that joke except the Viper would be viping something besides vindows.
posted by kindall at 11:13 AM on July 2, 2008
I would always be thinking of that joke except the Viper would be viping something besides vindows.
posted by kindall at 11:13 AM on July 2, 2008
I did a lot of research into this when my partner and I were replacing the toilet in our half-bath, since that thing was always plugging up (and it was one of the original low-flow models, back when they didn't know how to engineer low-flow toilets properly).
What we ended up getting was one of the dual-flush models from Caroma, the Australian company that pioneered dual-flush back in Oz. Australia mandated dual-flush back in the '90s when the country started having droughts (a situation that's still going on down there).
The advantage of Caroma's design is that, unlike most North American toilets, it uses a washdown design to force waste down the pipe, as opposed to the siphoning aspect of most North American toilets. This shoots it down the pipe with more force than the traditional method.
In addition—and this sold it for me—the trap is 4 inches wide, instead of the usual 2¼" found in most toilets. Ain't nothin' gonna clog this baby up! :-)
My dad, interestingly enough, was complaining about the low-flow at his house a couple of years ago, and his plumber recommended a Toto. So he bought it from him. Mind you, I have no idea which model it was... but my dad complained that it wasn't as great as he thought it was going to be (translation: it actually plugged up). So, who knows? Maybe some Totos are better than others.
Anyway, here's a vote for the Caroma dual-flush, FWIW. Very satisfied customer, I am.
posted by kentk at 5:34 PM on July 2, 2008
What we ended up getting was one of the dual-flush models from Caroma, the Australian company that pioneered dual-flush back in Oz. Australia mandated dual-flush back in the '90s when the country started having droughts (a situation that's still going on down there).
The advantage of Caroma's design is that, unlike most North American toilets, it uses a washdown design to force waste down the pipe, as opposed to the siphoning aspect of most North American toilets. This shoots it down the pipe with more force than the traditional method.
In addition—and this sold it for me—the trap is 4 inches wide, instead of the usual 2¼" found in most toilets. Ain't nothin' gonna clog this baby up! :-)
My dad, interestingly enough, was complaining about the low-flow at his house a couple of years ago, and his plumber recommended a Toto. So he bought it from him. Mind you, I have no idea which model it was... but my dad complained that it wasn't as great as he thought it was going to be (translation: it actually plugged up). So, who knows? Maybe some Totos are better than others.
Anyway, here's a vote for the Caroma dual-flush, FWIW. Very satisfied customer, I am.
posted by kentk at 5:34 PM on July 2, 2008
Toilets in Minnesota DOT rest areas? Toto. That's a US Government agency choosing a non-American company's products. Also, they were low-flow (but yes, commercial grade).
posted by easyasy3k at 8:16 PM on July 2, 2008
posted by easyasy3k at 8:16 PM on July 2, 2008
My partner ended up getting some kind of vacuum assist toilet (possibly a Gerber). She went to the local plumbing supply joint, and asked what they'd recommend. They pointed her to their bathroom, where she was able to try it out.
She loves it.
posted by QIbHom at 8:27 PM on July 2, 2008
She loves it.
posted by QIbHom at 8:27 PM on July 2, 2008
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If the vent goes pretty much straight up from the drain below the toilet and is not clogged, your low-flow should not give you much trouble. That said, a clog every other week doesn't seem like that much trouble. Perhaps, um, when someone takes a major dump, they should flush before adding the TP to the heap. At least, that works for me.
Too many twists and turns in the drain itself could contribute to the problem, also. And, of course, make sure the tank is refilling up as far as it should.
posted by beagle at 6:29 AM on July 2, 2008