Men's Gymnastics

August 16, 2004 6:30 PM

Why does the Olympics men's gymnastics "floor exercise" event not incorporate music, while the same event in women's does? The women's event seems more "dancey", but it looks like they both exhibit the same set of skills. What gives?
posted by majcher to sports, hobbies, & recreation (21 answers total)

because music would make it seem too much like dancing? (and thus faggy to all the idiots in the world and on the IOC?)
posted by amberglow at 6:50 PM on August 16, 2004

Two females (gymnasts, I think) discuss the issue. Apparently, for one of them, it's about letting men really be men, and women really be women:

"Peggy Liddick: Well I believe in men’s gymnastics they’re trying to show strength and control, like strength holds like say a planche or press-to-handstand type movements, where in women’s gymnastics, the whole idea is to show the artistry as well as to show the big contrast, and it’s just a different requirement, and I’m quite frankly glad that men’s gymnastics doesn’t have music.

Amanda Smith: Why?

Peggy Liddick: Oh well, I don’t want to see a bunch of feminine guys out there. I prefer the way men’s gymnastics is right now, I really respect their strength, and I respect the differences. That’s why I love our sport so much, is that we can be strong and weight to strength ratio is probably one of the highest you’ll ever see, but yet we can still be beautiful and be women. We aren’t trying to be men, and that’s what I really like about gymnastics."
posted by scarabic at 7:13 PM on August 16, 2004

I hate it when people defend their gender role, believeing that they're defending the rights of people who share their sex.

In other words: what amberglow said.
posted by scarabic at 7:15 PM on August 16, 2004

Perhaps you could Ask Mr G.
posted by mr.marx at 7:21 PM on August 16, 2004

and thus faggy to all the idiots in the world and on the IOC?
posted by amberglow at 6:50 PM PST on August 16

I'm not an idiot, and it would look totally gay.
posted by the fire you left me at 7:22 PM on August 16, 2004

They could also take the music out of the women's routines.

Or would that make them look like lesbians to the idiots? Is this a double bind?
posted by kenko at 7:29 PM on August 16, 2004

Maybe by the time you are competing in the freaking Olympics, you don't really care whether you are doing it to Madonna's Lucky Star or to dead silence. You're already a success.

Which would, of course, make this the inverse of arguing on the Internet.
posted by namespan at 8:02 PM on August 16, 2004

Same reason why male figure skaters don't wear frilly little dresses?
posted by Space Coyote at 8:09 PM on August 16, 2004

I stopped trying to make sense of sexism long ago. You can fight it if you want, but that's what it boils down to.

pwb.
posted by pwb503 at 8:26 PM on August 16, 2004

I'm not an idiot, and it would look totally gay.

I'm gay, and i agree, but think it already does, even without music.

mmmm--gymnasts
posted by amberglow at 8:28 PM on August 16, 2004

I have a related Olympics question: Is it really necessary for the women to wear bikini things to play volleyball?
posted by amberglow at 8:29 PM on August 16, 2004

I can't help thinking that the start and stop of the floor exercise music must cause some sort of rhythm problems for the balance beam folk and others who don't have music but are in the same gymnasium. It seems like they should have some acoustic separation for these things.

Same reason why male figure skaters don't wear frilly little dresses?

... because pirate shirts and sparkly pants are much more masculine.
(I thought Todd Eldridge got it right in salt lake with the tailored shirt, vest and tie)

Is it really necessary for the women to wear bikini things to play volleyball?

Yes! Absolutely, the physics would fail without them.
(they actually hardly seem like real "bikinis", more like Leeloo's Gaultier design thermal bandages from the Fifth Element only smaller)
posted by milovoo at 9:08 PM on August 16, 2004

The Olympics: a bastion of sexism in a changed world?
posted by amberglow at 9:11 PM on August 16, 2004

Is it really necessary for the women to wear bikini things to play volleyball?

TOTALLY. Trust us on this one.
posted by rushmc at 9:26 PM on August 16, 2004

As if all music and dance in the world is nothing but a pageant of pansy poof. Puh-lease. What do you call cock-rock and line-dancing? Pure, unadulterated faggotry?

[okay, bad example with the line-dancing]
posted by scarabic at 9:49 PM on August 16, 2004

It's the men's swimming outfits that have surprised me this year. First, some of them are suddenly wearing ones that cover their chest and look like Ye Olde Bathing Outfits from when Grandpa was swimming at Coney Island in 1901 or something. Then, if your eyes travel down the suit at all...hello!
posted by GaelFC at 9:54 PM on August 16, 2004

It's that skintight goodness. (but they're pushing it--why do people watch anyway? for the excellence in athletics? i think not!) I wish they would strip the gymnasts (the men only--please). It seems like their outfits haven't changed at all.

And what's with all the empty seats?
posted by amberglow at 10:00 PM on August 16, 2004

Ye Olde Bathing Outfits

but those aren't your grandpa's swimsuits.
(although I can't tell if the South African's see-thru suits are the high tech kind)

Apparently, the empty seats are a big topic this year. I almost get the sense that the Greeks only want to show up at the last minute, some sort of cultural thing?
posted by milovoo at 10:03 PM on August 16, 2004

I have a related Olympics question: Is it really necessary for the women to wear bikini things to play volleyball?

Not being flip (ahem) but according to the folks who make the rules, yes, it is. Women who objected to two-piece uniforms back when BV first became an Olympic sport were told "wear it or don't play." In fact, the rules not only mandate the bikinis, they state that the bottoms cannot be any wider than 6 cm at the hip. Why the BV players can't dress like the indoor volleyball players (whose outfits are skin tight but at least don't threaten to expose them at an inopportune moment during a dive play) is something that no one can explain. The bikinis don't add to their ability to play, don't help maintain coolness in the hot sun, and seem to be mainly a sop to some sexiness standard which shouldn't have a place in an athletic competition.

The fact that it also serves as a bar to competition for women from certain nations is enough to say that the two-piece, 6 cm standard needs to go the way of the dinosaur.
posted by Dreama at 8:28 AM on August 17, 2004

Why the BV players can't dress like the indoor volleyball players (whose outfits are skin tight but at least don't threaten to expose them at an inopportune moment during a dive play) is something that no one can explain. The bikinis don't add to their ability to play, don't help maintain coolness in the hot sun, and seem to be mainly a sop to some sexiness standard which shouldn't have a place in an athletic competition.

It seems obvious to me that the idea of sport is not to make the game as easy as possible, but to throw challenges in the way of the players to see how they overcome them. For example, you could play volleyball on sand rather than on firm ground. You could require the players to wear uncomfortable potentially immodest clothing. Etc. Only the best will be able to overcome their country's modesty standards to compete.
posted by kindall at 12:05 PM on August 17, 2004

It's an interesting issue, and I think that the debate will most likely bring about changes in the future games. I found a bit of the counter-argument here:

... one member of the FIVB says the federation's rules are not about promoting nudity but rather about curtailing it. Bob Ctvrtlik, retired U.S. beach volleyball champion, says, "At an indoor volleyball world championship event last year, the Cuban men were wearing obscenely short shorts. It was gross; the most distasteful thing you've ever seen. They were wearing spandex and when it got wet they might as well have been wearing nothing. At the outdoor events, the women from the Latin countries thought six centimetres of fabric [over the hip] was too much. And the Brazilian women were scrunching up their bikinis like G-strings. Athletes have the most toned bodies and the best figures. I don't think you should hide that. But it needs to be done in a classy way."
posted by milovoo at 12:50 PM on August 17, 2004