Comments on: Why are 24/7 big-box stores so rare in Chicagoland?

Question: Why are 24/7 big-box stores so rare in Chicagoland?

hitopshelf — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:54:17 -0800

Why are 24/7 big-box stores so rare in Chicagoland? I'm not talking just the downtown core or even the city itself. You have to drive nearly 30 miles from downtown to hit the first 24/7 Meijer in Schaumburg. I'm comparing this to central Illinois which has nearly a dozen Super Walmarts for 300,000 people in a 25 mile radius. Surely there is demand for 24/7 shopping in the city and the inner-ring suburbs.

By: bluejayk

bluejayk — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:17:43 -0800

Those stores that do stay open usually only have a skeleton crew on staff. I think in higher population-density areas, the risk of crime outweighs the extra business. A Wall-mart with only 3-4 people working makes an awfully attractive target for organized thieves. In rural areas, where people are more honest and law-abiding (joke), the risk is manageable.

By: The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew

The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:24:14 -0800

Amiritefilter, much?

Anyway, My guess is it has something to do with land prices. Same reason there is one wal-mart (from what I can tell looking at google businesses) for all five boroughs of New York.

By: The Light Fantastic

The Light Fantastic — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:35:39 -0800

Anti-chain sentiment? A lot of urban areas have fought the chains in order to maintain some sort of individuality.

That being said....man, I miss Meijer's Thrifty Acres!

By: Sweetie Darling

Sweetie Darling — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 04:29:10 -0800

Some communities have ordinances limiting 24-hour operations because it will bring in "the element" overnight. Because nice people sleep at night, you know.

By: gimonca

gimonca — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 04:52:45 -0800

The Home Depot in my area (nice area of Minneapolis, towards the center) wanted to stay open late/24hrs a couple of years ago. They had to go through city approvals, face all kinds of complaining and neighborhood hassle, eventually they gave up.

In comparison, the Rainbow Foods in the same center is open 24/7. I do remember when Rainbow was in trouble (I think before they were bought by Roundy's of Milwaukee) that the first thing they cut back on was late night hours. Even today, this location is open late, but many others aren't.

Also, the neighborhood people who horn in on the city approvals process didn't seem to complain about being able to buy milk at 3 a.m. --Rainbow probably benefitted from this as well.

Related to size/footprint, all the regular Target stores here are one by one transmogrifying into SuperTargets. The more suburban ones have been doing it fairly quickly--fewer hoops to jump through, no problem getting space to expand into. The more urban ones have had to go through multiple design/permit hearings and approvals. Target is going ahead and doing this, but they're putting lots of resources into the process (and, this is their hometown), other companies might decide it's not worth it.

By: arniec

arniec — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:13:33 -0800

This seems to be the case in many large metro areas. I am a Star Wars collector and podcaster and, as such, I live and breathe Wal Marts, Targets, and Meijer. I also live in Central IL. However on my trips to New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Diego, etc. I find that there are just simply not the big box stores in the downtown metro area (on the whole).

I would think real estate costs may have a big factor in this. These stores thrive by being BIG. In these large metro areas real estate is at a premium. Paying so much for rent/land would force an increase in costs thus negating the stores' primary attractiveness: cheap prices.

Also most items are delivered by large semi-truck backing into loading docks. Most downtown metro areas don't seem to have loading dock facilities from what I have seen as every building front is full of stores.

I'm speculating, but I think it's just a cost/benefit thing. They'd rather invest in cheap cheap land where they can dominate the marketplace, instead of paying for expensive property in an area with lots of competition.

By: sugarfish

sugarfish — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:17:50 -0800

I was really shocked when I moved to Chicago, because I came from Albuquerque where I could go practically anywhere at any hour of the night and something would be open.

I have noticed a trend of fast food restaurants, even out here in the burbs, shifting to 24 hour schedules, so perhaps it will trickle down.

By: aramaic

aramaic — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:32:49 -0800

In Chicago, it's a complicated subject. There's all kinds of political jostling going on, and it's been going on for years. Unions, developers, local resident associations, the mayor, the aldermen, pretty much everyone is involved in the fight.

Here's on random article on the topic; there are dozens of others.

By: aramaic

aramaic — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:33:54 -0800

(man I hate it when I notice a typo two seconds after pressing the button)

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:39:58 -0800

Walmart has been trying to open a store here for years. The major roadblocks were unions and people demanding a 'living wage.' Of course Target and Home Depot don't pay a living wage, but that's Chicago politics for you. Too many uber-lefties spoiling it for everyone else.

By: Max Power

Max Power — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:27:50 -0800

Meijer's has never really had even a toehold in Chicago, its a Jewel/Dominick's town for groceries.

I assume you're familiar with the "Walmart destroys local businesses" argument?

That's had an impact as well as their anti union stance. But I think its more along the lines of Chicago politicians' just don't want to see a Walmart open up and watch all that money funnel away from local businesses to Arizona billionaires.

Go figure.

By: phunniemee

phunniemee — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:38:59 -0800

Politics aside, just think of all the other things you'd have to have in place to support a 24-hour Wal-Mart. You're going to need somewhere for people to park 24 hours a day, you're going to need multiple transit lines open at all hours, you're going to need people--lots of people, this is a big city--to staff it, you're going to need to put it somewhere where 1) people will shop at a Wal-Mart and 2) it will fit...and the list can go on. It may not be economically feasible to have a big store like that open all night if it has to meet the conditions of a city like Chicago.

And it's not like we don't have any other options. There's a 24-hour Walgreens about a mile from my house where I can go if I need toilet bowl cleaner or a Barack Obama t-shirt at 4 in the morning, but that need just doesn't come up often enough to justify anything more than that one Walgreens.

By: sharkfu

sharkfu — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:48:49 -0800

There was a documentary which specifically referenced Chicago in the big box battle. I was wracking my brain all night and I finally remembered it: Penn & Teller's show on Showtime called "Bullshit!" The episode was 502 - Wal-Mart and can be viewed here. The Chicago section starts at 6:45.

Since the original question wasn't really about about is Wal-Mart good or bad, I'll stay out of that debate but this particular show is definitely in the "Wal-Mart is good" camp.

By: Craig

Craig — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:20:29 -0800

Several Chicago neighborhoods have blocked Wal-mart's attempts to penetrate their market. A lot of people hate Wal-mart.

There is a documentary that you can watch that addresses these issues: Walmart: the high cost of low prices (Wikipedia) - is is one from the 'walmart is bad' camp.

By: desjardins

desjardins — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:25:19 -0800

Land prices and zoning laws. (Master's in urban planning here.) Basically, it's really difficult for grocery stores to make a profit if they are too close together. Also, many communities purposely craft their zoning laws so big-box stores are banned. Some city ordinances restrict 24 hour businesses. I'd like to go into more detail but I'm at work. Cyburbia is an urban planning forum with good resources. This would be a great place to get a definitive answer (free registration req'd to post).

By: wfrgms

wfrgms — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:32:15 -0800

Going to a big box store in the middle of night is great when you're in BFE and there is nothing else to do.

Not so here in the city.