Help! I found the perfect apartment!
June 12, 2008 2:45 PM Subscribe
Is my new apartment too good to be true? Is there some scam I'm not seeing?
Detail-ridden story:
My husband and I are doing the big insane New York apartment hunt this month. We answered an ad on Craigslist today and arranged to go see a 1 bedroom apartment. The place is undergoing serious renovations; it was gutted, and construction workers were putting in new walls and fixtures as we looked around. But we could tell from the size and layout that it was perfect for us.
So, we called the owners and told them we wanted to apply. Having our papers and financial info in hand, we went straight to the office, where a kindly older Greek gentleman sat down with us across a handsome wooden table and asked us a few basic questions. As we started pushing our papers at him, it became clear that we were providing way more info than was even being asked for. He didn't seem too concerned about anything. He let us know that there was no broker's fee. Not once was a credit check mentioned. After this getting-to-know-you chat, he took copies of our papers and told us he'd let the other people who had called that day know that the apartment had been rented. He said he'd draw up the lease tonight, and we could return to sign it tomorrow. He said that at the signing he'd accept a 1-month's-rent deposit, and a post-dated check for the rent for July 1st (post-dated checks are pretty common with landlords here). He said since no one was currently living there, we'd be able to move in our stuff a few days early if we wanted to. And when he sensed my disbelief at how easy it was, he said, "Don't worry, you're getting this apartment."
Then his son (about our age, who will soon be taking over the business) offered to drive us home in the company car.
To recap:
*No application fee
*No broker fee
*No credit check
*Only one month's rent down payment
*Early move-in date
*On-the-spot acceptance of our financial records with little scrutiny.
All of this seemed so weirdly simple and friendly that I have to say, we're a little freaked out. Can it really be this easy? Have I been in New York for so long that I simply can't accept fortunate circumstances for what they are? Did we manage to fall into one of those wormholes where things just turn out easier and cheaper than you expect them to? As long as I don't give them any money until we have a copy of the lease, what could go wrong?
Our reigning theory is that they're in the mafia, which is not an uncommon quality among Brooklyn landlords, and that the stakes are low for them w/r/t the real estate end of their business. They're just glad to accept a nice-looking, decently successful couple who they see as non-problematic tenants. (And of course, if problems ever arise, they certainly won't feel threatened by the likes of us.) Weirdly enough, if this is the case, we don't really mind. It's the lesser of so many evil landlord scenarios!
Okay, folks, what am I missing? And what should I make sure of when I go back to sign the lease tomorrow?
Detail-ridden story:
My husband and I are doing the big insane New York apartment hunt this month. We answered an ad on Craigslist today and arranged to go see a 1 bedroom apartment. The place is undergoing serious renovations; it was gutted, and construction workers were putting in new walls and fixtures as we looked around. But we could tell from the size and layout that it was perfect for us.
So, we called the owners and told them we wanted to apply. Having our papers and financial info in hand, we went straight to the office, where a kindly older Greek gentleman sat down with us across a handsome wooden table and asked us a few basic questions. As we started pushing our papers at him, it became clear that we were providing way more info than was even being asked for. He didn't seem too concerned about anything. He let us know that there was no broker's fee. Not once was a credit check mentioned. After this getting-to-know-you chat, he took copies of our papers and told us he'd let the other people who had called that day know that the apartment had been rented. He said he'd draw up the lease tonight, and we could return to sign it tomorrow. He said that at the signing he'd accept a 1-month's-rent deposit, and a post-dated check for the rent for July 1st (post-dated checks are pretty common with landlords here). He said since no one was currently living there, we'd be able to move in our stuff a few days early if we wanted to. And when he sensed my disbelief at how easy it was, he said, "Don't worry, you're getting this apartment."
Then his son (about our age, who will soon be taking over the business) offered to drive us home in the company car.
To recap:
*No application fee
*No broker fee
*No credit check
*Only one month's rent down payment
*Early move-in date
*On-the-spot acceptance of our financial records with little scrutiny.
All of this seemed so weirdly simple and friendly that I have to say, we're a little freaked out. Can it really be this easy? Have I been in New York for so long that I simply can't accept fortunate circumstances for what they are? Did we manage to fall into one of those wormholes where things just turn out easier and cheaper than you expect them to? As long as I don't give them any money until we have a copy of the lease, what could go wrong?
Our reigning theory is that they're in the mafia, which is not an uncommon quality among Brooklyn landlords, and that the stakes are low for them w/r/t the real estate end of their business. They're just glad to accept a nice-looking, decently successful couple who they see as non-problematic tenants. (And of course, if problems ever arise, they certainly won't feel threatened by the likes of us.) Weirdly enough, if this is the case, we don't really mind. It's the lesser of so many evil landlord scenarios!
Okay, folks, what am I missing? And what should I make sure of when I go back to sign the lease tomorrow?
Okay, folks, what am I missing?
Well, you're not missing the fact that the apartment is under construction, but you may be missing the possibility that it will still be under contruction on July 1st.
Also, August 1st.
posted by dersins at 2:56 PM on June 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
Well, you're not missing the fact that the apartment is under construction, but you may be missing the possibility that it will still be under contruction on July 1st.
Also, August 1st.
posted by dersins at 2:56 PM on June 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
I'm in a similar situation, 2 months in.
We found a house perfect for our three-person household, that wasn't being advertised aside from a lawn sign. We weren't checked out a bit. Our credit reportds weren't glanced at. We sprung the two cats out last minute to nary a blink and no increase in deposit. It was recently sold to a new owner, had a bad history in tenants, and is being managed by a go-getter property manager who probably got brownie points for filling it fast and cheap.
However, it had previously been rented as two units and since we are renting it as one, there had to be some construction to get it to code. That construction has been underway for a month, and has represented a considerable inconvenience. Men coming into my bedroom while I'm in bed. Cats stuck in one room, terrified of the sawzalls. A whole bathroom ripped out, which we were paying for in the rental agreement. Dust EVERYWHERE. In the pantry, on the glassware. It's still a good enough deal, but I now understand why we were waved right in.
So, there may be some glitches with the construction. So, test out the landlord a bit by getting him to agree that if your facilities are rendered unuseable, he'll comp you on the rent. See if he;ll give you that in writing. If so, that's a good landlord. Granted, I've never played with the big boys landlordwise: scary Manhattan fellas...
Good luck, and congratulations on your new marriage!!
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:06 PM on June 12, 2008
We found a house perfect for our three-person household, that wasn't being advertised aside from a lawn sign. We weren't checked out a bit. Our credit reportds weren't glanced at. We sprung the two cats out last minute to nary a blink and no increase in deposit. It was recently sold to a new owner, had a bad history in tenants, and is being managed by a go-getter property manager who probably got brownie points for filling it fast and cheap.
However, it had previously been rented as two units and since we are renting it as one, there had to be some construction to get it to code. That construction has been underway for a month, and has represented a considerable inconvenience. Men coming into my bedroom while I'm in bed. Cats stuck in one room, terrified of the sawzalls. A whole bathroom ripped out, which we were paying for in the rental agreement. Dust EVERYWHERE. In the pantry, on the glassware. It's still a good enough deal, but I now understand why we were waved right in.
So, there may be some glitches with the construction. So, test out the landlord a bit by getting him to agree that if your facilities are rendered unuseable, he'll comp you on the rent. See if he;ll give you that in writing. If so, that's a good landlord. Granted, I've never played with the big boys landlordwise: scary Manhattan fellas...
Good luck, and congratulations on your new marriage!!
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:06 PM on June 12, 2008
Is it a small building or does family of the landlord live in it or nearby? Some small landlords in NYC still go by instinct and rent to people they like, especially if you're going to be their neighbors. It could also be racial discrimination if you're white, the landlord's white, and the neighborhood is black or hispanic.
You can look up the address on the websites of the Dept of Buildings and the city Dept of Housing Preservation and Development. Those would give you some idea of what kind of history the building has with regard to repairs.
posted by Mavri at 3:21 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
You can look up the address on the websites of the Dept of Buildings and the city Dept of Housing Preservation and Development. Those would give you some idea of what kind of history the building has with regard to repairs.
posted by Mavri at 3:21 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
If it makes you feel any better, 3 years ago my girlfriend and I moved into a newly renovated building and a week before we were supposed to move in, our place looked like it was still under construction. I think we lucked out, but when we got there on move-in day, everything was finished. Although there were some parts of the apartment, (fixtures on cabinets, shower,) that really needed a bit of adjustment, (which they happily did for us without hassle.)
Some amenities however, did not get finished for at least a year. The lounge and the roof deck for example. Also ,carpeting in the hallways was not down for a few months, but they did warn us of that.
Other things to watch out for - In lease, the're may be a clause about scaffolding covering your windows for unspecified amounts of time during the finishing of the building. There may be something else giving them the ability to hang a huge banner over your window effectively blocking out 50% of the light you will get for as long as they want.
Other than that, inspect the place and document any damaged parts (don't forget the floors) the second you get there and submit the photos/descriptions (copies) to the management.
Hope it all works out for you!
posted by zackola at 3:24 PM on June 12, 2008
Some amenities however, did not get finished for at least a year. The lounge and the roof deck for example. Also ,carpeting in the hallways was not down for a few months, but they did warn us of that.
Other things to watch out for - In lease, the're may be a clause about scaffolding covering your windows for unspecified amounts of time during the finishing of the building. There may be something else giving them the ability to hang a huge banner over your window effectively blocking out 50% of the light you will get for as long as they want.
Other than that, inspect the place and document any damaged parts (don't forget the floors) the second you get there and submit the photos/descriptions (copies) to the management.
Hope it all works out for you!
posted by zackola at 3:24 PM on June 12, 2008
Funnily enough, the process you described is pretty typical in most cities that are not New York. Maybe you just have an oldschool landlord.
Sounds pretty good to me.
posted by rokusan at 3:30 PM on June 12, 2008
Sounds pretty good to me.
posted by rokusan at 3:30 PM on June 12, 2008
There are some honest landlords out there. Due to eldercare issues, my boyfriend needed to give up his studio apartment in Chelsea where he had lived for 17 years. Rent-stabilized. Incredible location. Walking distance to my office. When he gave his notice, he told the landlord that I was interested in taking over the apartment. The landlord said that was fine... but he would need to check my credit and there would renovations and a rent increase. But he followed the letter of the law... a 20% vacancy increase, plus 2% of the total renovations. And he let me pick the renovations... a new closet, a storage loft, new flooring, etc. The construction was completed a month early, and we split the difference on the move in date, prorating the months rent.
Even with the rent increase, I'm paying the same amount I was living in Washington Heights, and the rent is about half what the market rate would be for this neighborhood.
posted by kimdog at 3:37 PM on June 12, 2008
Even with the rent increase, I'm paying the same amount I was living in Washington Heights, and the rent is about half what the market rate would be for this neighborhood.
posted by kimdog at 3:37 PM on June 12, 2008
In San Francisco, after months of hunting for an apartment that I could afford, I found a house with a backyard within my budget. The landlord had no interest in my credit report, asked for no deposit for my dog and gave it to me because I was "a good person with a good soul" over the other people who had come to see it.
Glitch-free, I'm still there, the landlord is still nice and I'm way below market rate in rent still.
Look at the lease carefully. Look around the neighborhood. Keep records of everything. Don't be blind, but good things do happen.
posted by Gucky at 4:34 PM on June 12, 2008
Glitch-free, I'm still there, the landlord is still nice and I'm way below market rate in rent still.
Look at the lease carefully. Look around the neighborhood. Keep records of everything. Don't be blind, but good things do happen.
posted by Gucky at 4:34 PM on June 12, 2008
Funnily enough, the process you described is pretty typical in most cities that are not New York. Maybe you just have an oldschool landlord.
Having rented in 3 different states and from many different owners/landlords, and having owned rentals, I concur with this statement. I always had prospective tenants sign a credit check release, but I never used it; the release itself tended to weed out people.
Also keep in mind that most people are notoriously and incredibly lacking in the ability to see potential. Having sold numerous houses, I can tell you that explaining to a potential buyer that the bathroom will be painted cream instead of eggplant next week has the same effect as making fart noises with your armpit. So, I'm sure many potential renters are scared off by the construction and can't "see" it finished.
On the other hand, you are indeed taking something of risk that it might not be done on time, or that other construction in the building may be inconvenient even after your place is done.
I understand the caution. Even here in Nowhereland, I was surprised that I only needed a half month's security deposit and first month's rent to get my apartment in a desirable, low-vacancy complex. And the rent was quite a bit lower than many comparable places. But it's been great. It's just how they do things.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 4:34 PM on June 12, 2008
Having rented in 3 different states and from many different owners/landlords, and having owned rentals, I concur with this statement. I always had prospective tenants sign a credit check release, but I never used it; the release itself tended to weed out people.
Also keep in mind that most people are notoriously and incredibly lacking in the ability to see potential. Having sold numerous houses, I can tell you that explaining to a potential buyer that the bathroom will be painted cream instead of eggplant next week has the same effect as making fart noises with your armpit. So, I'm sure many potential renters are scared off by the construction and can't "see" it finished.
On the other hand, you are indeed taking something of risk that it might not be done on time, or that other construction in the building may be inconvenient even after your place is done.
I understand the caution. Even here in Nowhereland, I was surprised that I only needed a half month's security deposit and first month's rent to get my apartment in a desirable, low-vacancy complex. And the rent was quite a bit lower than many comparable places. But it's been great. It's just how they do things.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 4:34 PM on June 12, 2008
Jeez, everyone sounds pretty confident out there. Are you sure that you spoke to the owner? I'd do some more checking if I were you, given that "Craigslist's New York apartment classifieds are a con artist favorite "
posted by Neiltupper at 4:44 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Neiltupper at 4:44 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
If something is too good to be true and it's a housing management company, I'd suspect a bedbug infestation. Especially if we're talking NYC.
If it's too good to be true and it's an individual landlord, then maybe that's just the way they roll.
posted by crapmatic at 4:47 PM on June 12, 2008
If it's too good to be true and it's an individual landlord, then maybe that's just the way they roll.
posted by crapmatic at 4:47 PM on June 12, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks everyone! Some supplemental info:
1. I'm really sure they are the owner. They were in touch with the workers via phone while I was there, and the workers vouched for the company to me. Their office was a real office with heavy, permanent-looking furniture. I know people who have been scammed in the way Neiltupper notes, and this doesn't seem like the same thing.
2. I don't suspect bedbugs-- this place was entirely gutted, as the walls were stripped to their frames.
3. The neighborhood is fine, I already live in it so I know where the bad spots are.
Here's hoping for the best. I will make sure to document everything carefully! I'll update if it all goes sour, so that you can all laugh at my defeated, caved-in dreams (if you want to).
posted by Julia F***ing Sugarbaker at 5:24 PM on June 12, 2008
1. I'm really sure they are the owner. They were in touch with the workers via phone while I was there, and the workers vouched for the company to me. Their office was a real office with heavy, permanent-looking furniture. I know people who have been scammed in the way Neiltupper notes, and this doesn't seem like the same thing.
2. I don't suspect bedbugs-- this place was entirely gutted, as the walls were stripped to their frames.
3. The neighborhood is fine, I already live in it so I know where the bad spots are.
Here's hoping for the best. I will make sure to document everything carefully! I'll update if it all goes sour, so that you can all laugh at my defeated, caved-in dreams (if you want to).
posted by Julia F***ing Sugarbaker at 5:24 PM on June 12, 2008
I once moved into an apartment that was being renovated. My landlord volunteered to put a clause in the rental agreement detailing the construction to be done, and when it would be finished. I think you would be well within reason to ask for something similar.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 5:38 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 5:38 PM on June 12, 2008
When renting our last apartment (before finally buying a place) we had a similarly easy experience. However, we weren't thinking of all the possibilities - we probably should have asked if a family of ten lived in the two bedroom apt next door. Why? Because the kids spent most of every day beating the crap out of each other and screaming. We probably also should have asked or tested the soundproof qualites of the the walls, because the guy upstairs smoked cigars 24/7, the kids screamed and the guy on the other side of us played his sax at all hours.
So, the moral of the story is that although the neighborhood and physical apartment might be fine your neighbors might be the issue. Another remote possibility is that something horrible happened there - murder scene? You never know...
posted by blaneyphoto at 5:43 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
So, the moral of the story is that although the neighborhood and physical apartment might be fine your neighbors might be the issue. Another remote possibility is that something horrible happened there - murder scene? You never know...
posted by blaneyphoto at 5:43 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
sometimes people are just nice... even in new york city. that place has a much worse reputation in other parts of the country than it really deserves. then again... you could post the landlords info here and see if anyone screams 'beware'. (I take it you googled them and all that jazz...)
oh yeah... awesome handle.
posted by krautland at 6:43 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
oh yeah... awesome handle.
posted by krautland at 6:43 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is how most of the small landlords I've known operate.
However, I have seen, I think in the NY Times, horror stories of people who rent one apartment to 20 different renters, take 20 deposits, cash them, and then skip town. Turns out that they were never authorized to rent the apt. in the first place. Often they are contractors who are doing work on the place, that is how they have access.
As long as I don't give them any money until we have a copy of the lease, what could go wrong?
The guy you're talking to may have no authority to lease you the place. If I sign a lease saying I agree to rent the White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., to you for $1000 a month, possession of that document doesn't give you the right to live there because I do not own the white house.
Anyone can put an ad on Craigslist. Proceed with caution. In the article I read, which I can't find now, the prospective tenants found out about the scam when their moving trucks all arrived at the same time and 10 people were trying to move into one apartment.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:37 PM on June 12, 2008
However, I have seen, I think in the NY Times, horror stories of people who rent one apartment to 20 different renters, take 20 deposits, cash them, and then skip town. Turns out that they were never authorized to rent the apt. in the first place. Often they are contractors who are doing work on the place, that is how they have access.
As long as I don't give them any money until we have a copy of the lease, what could go wrong?
The guy you're talking to may have no authority to lease you the place. If I sign a lease saying I agree to rent the White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., to you for $1000 a month, possession of that document doesn't give you the right to live there because I do not own the white house.
Anyone can put an ad on Craigslist. Proceed with caution. In the article I read, which I can't find now, the prospective tenants found out about the scam when their moving trucks all arrived at the same time and 10 people were trying to move into one apartment.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:37 PM on June 12, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Mesach at 2:54 PM on June 12, 2008