Doggy baby dilemma

June 4, 2008 7:43 PM

Doggy baby dilemma.

My husband and I got a dog about a year ago. He’s one year old. I love our dogpup and I spend all day with him. I’ve read about training dogs and I’ve put a lot of work into him. I don’t hit him, but I do have a benevolent and firm hand with him, and he is treated like a dog, not like a furry person. He is not allowed on the furniture. I actively work with him on basic obedience and give him attention when he’s calm and good. BUT… my husband doesn’t. My SO swats when dog misbehaves, plays roughly (play biting, wrestling etc.), and would like the dog to sleep on the bed. We basically disagree and I get frustrated that we are not consistent and, I must admit, I get frustrated because my SO doesn’t see it my way… and DO it my way. Ugh there I said it. As a result of the rough play allowed by SO, doggy plays very rough with kids and me so we don’t want to play with him at all. At the dog park he tries out dominance posturing and play and if he had things his way he would dominate (in a playful way) every dog he meets. He has not shown any desire for dominance with me, SO or our 13 year old daughter.

We recently had a baby (5 months old) and she LOVES our dog/puppy. He on the other hand, doesn’t really pay much attention to her, basically ignores her. When he does put his face in hers she is ecstatic and he, on the other hand, slows his tail wag to a stop and sniffs her. I don’t know what he really thinks of her, but I’m getting the impression, that he is indifferent at best and actively dislikes her at worst. I watch this interaction and I wish he would just wag his tail and lick her face.

I’m worried WORRIED, that he doesn’t see her as above him in the pack. I’ve done some reading and I’ve ask SO to please not play rough anymore with the dog. When SO and I have disagreements, it is HARD… HARD to come to an agreement. Anyway, he basically said, “We might as well get rid of the dog if I can’t play roughly with him.” He thinks it’s all in my mind, that I over analyzed the situation, and that I shouldn’t try to dictate how he plays with his dog. Ugh… I feel that the risk isn’t worth his occasional play times. I’ve asked him what would it take for him to change his mind? I asked him if we went to talk to the vet and ask their opinion, would that help, he said, “no”. Apparently no authority would change his mind (this is typical of him), and he won’t just do it for me.

So Metafites… I’m asking for an informal census… wwyd?? Maybe I’m over-reacting? He’s never been aggressive. I just want to do the responsible thing. I’m so tired of fighting, but this feels very important to me.

posted by vermontlife to pets & animals (15 comments total)

“We might as well get rid of the dog if I can’t play roughly with him.” He thinks it’s all in my mind, that I over analyzed the situation, and that I shouldn’t try to dictate how he plays with his dog. Ugh… I feel that the risk isn’t worth his occasional play times. I’ve asked him what would it take for him to change his mind? I asked him if we went to talk to the vet and ask their opinion, would that help, he said, “no”. Apparently no authority would change his mind (this is typical of him), and he won’t just do it for me.

I think your dog will eventually come around. So long as he's not being aggressive, and so long as he knows that you're the boss, it sounds like there's no real reason for concern. (Make sure the kid knows that we don't pull doggy's tail or ears or ride on doggy's back.)

Your husband, on the other hand, sounds like a petulant, uncompromising jerk. I suggest a choke collar.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:49 PM on June 4 [5 favorites]

I'm told the dog randomly went after me one day when I was a baby -- I was reaching for a cookie.
posted by gerryblog at 7:53 PM on June 4

Husband wants to encourage aggressive/rough behavior in the dog + dog doesn't like your baby? Does your husband share the dog's opinion of your child?

I'd say call his bluff on the "we might as well get rid of the dog" idea, and try to find a new home for the puppy--both for your baby's safety and the dog's own good.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:04 PM on June 4

I'd make sure your husband reads this post for a start.
posted by schwa at 8:06 PM on June 4

Childproofing Your Dog is a book that was recommended to us by the trainer who helped me with our rescued Rottie, back when I was pregnant with our daughter. Perhaps leaving a copy of it, (or similar books) around is a neutral way to provide a guide for safer interactions. Maybe it'll work on either the dog or the SO by osmosis. We can hope, for the safety of others around the dog and for your peace of mind with the SO. I really wish you all the best with this.
posted by peagood at 8:26 PM on June 4 [1 favorite]

Knowing Metafilter, the answer's going to be "get rid of the baby." Beside the obvious husband issues everyone else mentions, maybe you can try to compartmentalize as much as possible. Dogs are highly trainable, if you keep things simple. You can condition your dog not to be rough with anybody (e.g. baby, yourself, guests...) except your husband, if you're both willing to put in the work (sadly, few pet owners actually do this). If you two can't even at least agree that this is an issue you both are going to have to work at to solve, you should consider getting rid of the dog.
posted by aswego at 8:30 PM on June 4

You're approaching this from a safety issue. Your husband seems to be looking at this as a "I like to play rough with my toy and that's the only way I like to play with it, if I can't play rough with it I don't want it anymore and it doesn't matter how it affects anyone else" way (it sounds to me like he is being an immature brat). I think you are completely right, but I doubt that anything you say is going to change your stubborn, uncompromising, seemingly thoughtless husband's opinion. Does he care about this baby or respect your opinions usually? Because if this is a pattern that repeats itself often, I'd keep the kids and the dog and probably get rid of the husband. In my experience people that exhibit behavior like your husband do not change and do not bend, so you'll be doing a lot of the bending and will probably need to find a way to cope with it.

If you decide you want to keep the husband, though, it might be best for everyone (including the dog) if you could find a good home for him with people who don't smack him and treat him roughly. If the dog does actually hurt the baby at some point, your husband will probably say the dog needs to go (and won't attribute the dog's actions to his treatment of the dog).
posted by Polychrome at 8:48 PM on June 4

I think you're over-reacting or, more likely, using this issue as a proxy for larger issues.

Just because your dog is confused by a tiny person doesn't mean that he hates your child. Just because your SO plays rough with the dog doesn't mean that the dog will one day go wild and maul somebody.

If you want the dog to stop playing rough with you, make him stop. You're the boss. Just because YOU think the dog is getting mixed signals doesn't meant he is. The first time a dog is scolded for peeing in the house, he's going to be confused. "But I just had to go! c'mon!" Eventually the dog learns the difference between peeing outside and peeing inside.

What makes you think the dog cannot learn the difference between playing rough with you and playing rough with your husband?


I'm tempted to say that, in addition, your husband is being a jerk and both of you should knock it off. Of course, you've not given us enough information to really give relationship advice and looking at this situation in a vacuum is hardly fair to your SO or you. That said... is this really about the dog or is it about the fact that your SO won't do what you tell him to do, and seems unwilling to be persuaded? If the latter, you might want to go find a couples counselor so you can get to the real conflict.
posted by toomuchpete at 8:48 PM on June 4 [2 favorites]

I agree wholeheartedly with mudpuppie. It sounds like your problem is not with the dog (who, frankly, sounds like a well-adjusted and sweet kiddo) or your infant.

However, your husband seems to have some serious issues as to what a dog can/could/should be. It's the 21st bloody Century. Both dogs and us humans have evolved enough to change how we interact with each other, no? Do both of you all a favor, and buy Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash. Read it together, and if he doesn't change his mind about how he relates to the dog, the only fair thing to do is to find it a new home.
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:54 PM on June 4

Okay. I think your husband sounds like a twit, but that's because I actually know why you're doing what you're doing. Have you sat down and explained to him what your goals are in training, why it's important not to treat the dog like a furry person, why you work with him on basic obedience, why you think it's bad - not just because it goes against what you've arbitrarily decided but why it's bad for the dog's training - for your hubby to roughhouse and swat the dog, and pointed out the negative consequences of hubby's treatment in the dog's behavior (the dominance, the undesired rough play)?

It does sound to me like there are several issues at play here:
1) You are more invested in training the dog than hubby is.
1b) When your training interferes with hubby's doggy playtime, you're accused of overanalyzing and dictating play. I'm not quite sure what to make of that, but I thought I'd mention that it gives me weird vibes of territorialism.
2) Lack of communication - hubby doesn't intuitively grok what your training goals are, and doesn't really see how he's actively hindering said goals, or the dog's training in general.
2b) Meanwhile, you are unable to convey this to him yourself.
3) Your concern over points 1 + 2 have bled into an issue which isn't necessarily related. I don't think it's atypical for a dog not to be that interested in an infant. I wouldn't leave them together unsupervised, obviously, but I doubt this is a huge deal.
4) What worries me the most is the whole "No, I'm not changing my mind!" thing, which you say he does regularly. Okay, look, I'm unrepentantly single and even I know that a good marriage is founded on compromise (see point 1b). In a solid relationship, this whole training issue would go something like this, you guys would quarrel over rough-housing, then you would use your communication skills to explain why rough-housing is bad, then he would say, "Oh, okay, I understand - but can't he at least sleep on the bed?" Yay, compromise.

You mention the baby is young, and the dog's only been around a year ... these are relatively recent upheavals to the status quo. Could they be putting tension on underlying, extant problems in the relationship? I'm not saying ZOMG DUMP HIM or GET THEE TO A MARRIAGE COUNSELOR STAT (though a marriage counselor is not necessarily a bad idea, if you feel there are deep, underlying issues), but perhaps it's worth thinking this over and then sitting down with him for a few thoughtful, communicative discussions.

Sorry you're having this problem, and best of luck to you both (and the dog and the baby).
posted by bettafish at 9:11 PM on June 4 [1 favorite]

As for the dog...

- Dogs can handle inconsistent discipline just fine. As long as you act like you're in charge, he'll obey even though your husband treats him differently. Our dog plays rough with some people, knows others don't want to, and treats children and cats very gently.
- Dogs don't "actively dislike" anyone unless they're mistreated. Your baby just hasn't been petting the dog, praising him, or giving him treats--and she smells funny--so the dog doesn't know what to think yet.
- Even the best dog can be startled or accidentally hurt and lash out at a child. Don't ever leave them alone together.

And as for the husband...

- Get counseling, or at least start communicating more with your husband NOW, because the dog training issues are tiny and insignificant compared to the kid training issues you're going to have in a few years.
posted by mmoncur at 9:45 PM on June 4

The dog sounds like it's not at all a danger to the kid. Is there any evidence other than that he's very careful around her? I played rough with my dog all the time, and he was perfectly friendly to people and cautious around - but most certainly not hostile - to small kids.

Still, as high-strung as you sound you are, I think you'd be better off getting rid of the dog. Even if the dog is trained exactly as you as want him to be, something else is going to happen that will worry you about him.
posted by ignignokt at 10:28 PM on June 4

Nthing the notion that a dog can understand that it's alright to play rough with some people but necessary to be extremely gentle with children. This is exactly the situation I have (70 pound dog, 10 pound baby).

In my case I'm convinced the roughhousing helps to take the edge off, that if I stopped it my girl would have a tougher time with the baby. We do have a ritual after playtime ends to give her a chance to come down from being wound up (I go in the other room, she waits until I call her, I give her a cookie, she takes it back to her spot and lies down and eats it and promptly falls asleep), this might be something you could institute to help make playtime distinct. Puppies have so much physical and social energy and it has to go somewhere; at least for my dog walks around the neighborhood don't do the trick.

Also anecdotally - my dog is a lot more interested in doing what I ask her to do when she hasn't been sleeping in the bed. There's definitely a status thing to it for her. I'm sure this is different with different dogs, but if you can get your husband to give on one thing this might be a good place to hold the line. At least push to try it for a few weeks to see if it makes a difference.

Good luck!
posted by genug at 12:11 AM on June 5 [1 favorite]

Looking past the name-calling toward your husband (who, after all, hasn't had a chance to tell his side of the story) let's step back a minute and see what's going on. First, are you able to admit that you might not be 100% right here? It sounds a little like you can give ol' hubby a run for his money in the control department: "…my SO doesn’t see it my way… and DO it my way. Ugh there I said it".

As the owner of an eleven-month old puppy, and the father of two little girls, your situation sounds awfully familiar. You're absolutely right about pack issues, dominance, etc. But don't assume your husband is wrong about rough play and swatting. Take a look at how youngsters in canine (and feline) packs interact with others. Agressive play is the norm, and is the way pups learn their place in the pack. It's also a way to dissipate some of the prodigious energy a pup invariably has. (We have a pup of the same age two doors down, and put our invisible fences on the same frequency as theirs, so our two little ones can roughhouse together. On days when they don't have this outlet, our little one becomes "the Tornado", tearing around the house like a mischievous perpetual-motion machine.)

As for your husband's "play", when pups in a pack playfully attack dad, he'll put up with it to a certain extent, then swat them away when they become too aggressive/annoying. He'll even give the occasional warning bite, as a way to set boundaries. What your husband is doing may actually be making up for the natural social interaction your little fellow would normally get from the leader of the pack. And like I pointed out before, it's channeling puppy-energy that you DON'T want channeled someplace else. Ask yourself this: Does your pup shy away from your husband, or does he keep coming back for more?

You took your pup out of his pack, and brought him into yours. He's not human, and never will be. He needs a little rough play, and occasionally to be put in his place. Your husband is providing some of the outlet your pup has been denied by being taken away from other dogs.

Perhaps your husband might give up a little control if you do the same. Give him the roughhousing, and ask him to give you the furniture. Do it in a non-confrontational, "You may be right about some things" kind of way, and see if he doesn't respond in kind. If he doesn't, OK, he's a jerk, but he's the jerk you married.
posted by dinger at 9:37 AM on June 5

For the curious... Months later and baby is doggy's favorite human... apart from me that is. They love each other immensely. sigh
posted by vermontlife at 10:09 AM on July 29