Shy vs. not interested vs. passive?

May 31, 2008 9:03 PM

Is this guy is shy, not interested, passive, or any combination of thereof? (Long explanation provided, naturally.)

[Note: I've read many threads re: actual/perceived shy boys, crushes, mixed signals, and the like, though they weren't totally applicable to this situation. Please be gentle :)]

I'm insanely attracted to a boy I met through a mutual friend a few weeks ago. Boy and I clicked almost instantaneously, as we have many shared interests and are dorky in the same way. We chatted for a few hours and discussed making each other mixtapes, though when I got up to leave he didn't ask for my number. No problem, I thought, as I was almost positive I'd see him at a party later that evening.

Boy and I see each other a handful of hours later at said party and dorkfest continues. Reciprocal disclosure of random self-details ensues. I realize I may really like Boy. We go back to his and mutual friend's apartment building and listen to music. Mutual friend goes home to her place and Boy and I sit on his couch, knees touching and talking for an hour. I suddenly tire and stand to leave. An awkward pause occurs, during which I ask for his number. He obliges, and I call him with mine.

A week passes. No Boy peeps. Dopamine-crazed, I initiate messaging regarding our dorky passions. This message tag continues for a week, during which I hint I want to hang out. He doesn't ask but keeps up the quid pro quo banter. I ask mutual friend for her insights, and she says a) he's not (to her knowledge) seeing anyone, b) he doesn't have girls over (she would know) and c) he's not gay. Mutual friend mentions she thinks Boy is flaky and has bad luck with women, though.

Yet another week later, I run into Boy with mutual friend and everything feels fine, as I'd somewhat tempered my attraction neurochemical-addled brain. We all meet for lunch next day and then go back to his and mutual friend's building. After spending some time with mutual friend, I saunter into Boy's apartment to say hello and we end up talking about shared interests, our pasts, and our personality quirks for the next 7 hours. He shares things with me he says he's never told anyone. I am blissed out. He offers to buy me ice cream. We allude to hanging out in the future. Tension is palpable. We hug and kiss cheeks goodbye with gooey eyes. My brain is officially turned to mush.

The next day, I text Boy asking him a question about our dorky passion with the intention of asking him to a relevant event a day later. He doesn't respond until event is moot. Because I didn't actually ask him to join, I play it off by saying "too bad, I think you would have liked this thing yesterday." A few days have passed without Boy peeps, and I'm not initiating further contact because I feel like he should make an effort to hang out if he does, in fact, like me.

I've gained a decent understanding of shy male behavior as I'm friends with many shy boys, so I get that they don't get it sometimes. What's killing me is that I've met a number of guys lately who ask for my number and ask me out right away. I'm not into any of them, though, because I like Boy, and I don't want to lead anyone on.

I've been doing this long enough to intuit reciprocal attraction, and my gut tells me that Boy likes me. Why, then, would he be acting like this? How to proceed, if at all?

Thank you!

posted by anonymous to human relations (40 comments total)

Why, then, would he be acting like this?

Because he likes you, but he doesn't like like you. There is nothing in any of the described history between the two of you that suggests that he sees you as anything more than a good friend. Sorry.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:11 PM on May 31, 2008 [1 favorite]

Sounds like Boy is the sort who needs to be given definite places and times; not just hints.
posted by brujita at 9:12 PM on May 31, 2008 [1 favorite]

He likes you, but is hesitant/flaky/liking that you're pursuing him/lazy/also likes another girl and is confused or happy to have options/many other possibilities. Best way to resolve your concern is just to tell him you like him and would like to see more of him. Something along the lines of "I'd like to hang out but you haven't been calling or initiating so I'm worried that I'm coming on too strong. What's up on your end?"
posted by lhall at 9:13 PM on May 31, 2008 [2 favorites]

Also, this seems to have gone on long enough to propose a one-on-one meeting.
posted by brujita at 9:15 PM on May 31, 2008

My gut feeling is to agree with ThePinkSuperhero. I wasn't going to type an answer, but when I read your question I thought to myself, "he likes her as a friend."

I think he would be initiating more contact if he was into you. Don't send him a message for a while. See what happens.
posted by LoriFLA at 9:16 PM on May 31, 2008

He's a new friend. You've got nothing to lose by going for something that may not work. Kiss the boy, a good maybe 3-5 kiss. No tongue. Smile impishly, turn and walk away as you say "call me...". Then drop it.
posted by TomMelee at 9:17 PM on May 31, 2008

oops 3-5 *second* kiss.
posted by TomMelee at 9:18 PM on May 31, 2008

He's not that interested in you. If he was, he'd get the hints and make more of an effort.

You're in friendship land. Doesn't mean you can't get out of it pretty easily (just be blunt and ask him out rather than leave hints) but that's where you are currently.

i.e. he ain't gonna make the first move.
posted by Stynxno at 9:18 PM on May 31, 2008

Three guesses: (1) he isn't physically attracted to you for some reason; (2) because he has no idea how much you like him, and is worried that the more into you he gets, the more (he thinks) it will hurt when you inevitably (he thinks) tell him that you just want to be friends; (3) he has some other girl (or boy) he's absolutely head over heels for, and is too weak to tell you.

In other words, he's being either (1) passive and reticent for fear of hurting you, and hoping you'll give up on your own, ie, he is being weak; (2) stupid, and self-defeating; (3) passive, indecisive and self-defeating.

I'm not initiating further contact because I feel like he should make an effort to hang out if he does, in fact, like me.
Quite right, normally, but if you want this guy, give it one last unambiguously clear shot.

Go find him, insist on talking to him right away, in private and tell him: "Fred, I find you very physically and emotionally attractive, but you're getting to be annoying. I've asked you out three times now, and you haven't even bothered to reply. I'm pretty sure you like me, given that we've talked in so much detail about so many things, but I'm not sure if you're not attracted to me and are just afraid of leading me on, or if you're worried I'll break your heart, or if it's something else. What's up with you?"

The response might not be what you want, and might be hurtful because of that, but, hey, them's the breaks. :) In that case, call back whichever one of those other guys who asked for your number you actually like the most.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 9:20 PM on May 31, 2008 [2 favorites]

Hi. I'm not Boy, but a sort of kindred spirit. Shy, clueless, and completely inept at understanding the intentions of the opposite sex. Here is how my girlfriend finally convinced me she was actually interested in me:

She had sex with me.

We've been together for the past five years. Some people just take more convincing than others. If you don't feel comfortable just dragging him someplace private and boinking him, then just give him a good prolonged snog. It snapped me out of my daze, and into a whole new one. Might work for Boy.
posted by SansPoint at 9:32 PM on May 31, 2008 [4 favorites]

and I'm not initiating further contact because I feel like he should make an effort to hang out if he does, in fact, like me.

Stop playing games and waiting by the phone and talk to him so you can put it rest. He might be really dense. He might be really scared due to past relationships. He might be freaked out by this intense connection with you. Nobody knows 'cept him and you're asking everyone but him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:35 PM on May 31, 2008 [1 favorite]

What are the possibilities?

1. He's interested; he's pretty sure you're interested; he'd like you to make the first move just in case he's wrong because rejection sucks.
2. He's interested; he's pretty sure you're NOT interested; he's afraid to make the first move because rejection sucks.
3. He's not interested; he may or may not be aware that you're interested.

The only element you're in control of is letting him know that you're interested. So ask him out for ice cream or a movie or something. Or have him over to your place for coffee and a chat. If you still see clear signs of interest from him, say or do something that makes your interest clear. If he's interested, he'll be relieved that he can return your interest. If he isn't, it's up to him to be a grownup and tell you he doesn't like you that way.

Really, there's no longterm downside to this. You end up in a nice relationship with him (happiness!), or you end up in a brief but flaky relationship with him (great story later on for your friends!), or you get to feel like a grownup woman by taking a risk.
posted by wexford_arts at 9:45 PM on May 31, 2008 [2 favorites]

Have you ever considered telling him? It might be an awkward situation, but at least you would get an answer. If he really is that shy, don't be too pushy and try to create the least-threatening environment if possible.
posted by toaster at 9:46 PM on May 31, 2008

He just sounds very inexperienced and confused about relationships. Just be forward with him, since he's so far reciprocated; in the worst case, you drop the guy and call one of the other suitors you've encountered.

I think Brandon Blatcher put it well -- the Boy is dense, scared, or weary.
posted by spiderskull at 9:47 PM on May 31, 2008

He's shy. It's the 21st century. Ask him out, or at least talk to him.
posted by bettafish at 9:48 PM on May 31, 2008 [1 favorite]

'nother thought: even if he does like you, do you really want a relationship with someone you constantly have to chase?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:50 PM on May 31, 2008 [3 favorites]

Honestly, even the shyest, flakiest, most block-headed and/or inexperienced guys make some sort of effort if they actually like a girl.
posted by thisjax at 10:01 PM on May 31, 2008 [1 favorite]

when I got up to leave he didn't ask for my number. No problem, I thought

You're already wayyyy over thinking it.

The guy just sounds like a cold fish and your crazy dork-fetish isn't helping it any. You're building him up in your head to be this incredible match when in fact he may not be that great. You need to relax, perhaps call on some other boys. Putting all eggs (unfertilized, of course) in one basket is bound to set you up for either immediate disappointment, or a half ass, lousy relationship...

Still, I remember many years ago when I was too timid to make the first move... so there is something to be said for that. Plus, the thing is you two have already spent a great deal of time together. Most people's clothes are off by this point.

So.

Jump his bones.

What? What are you still here for? Go do it right now! Worst case it doesn't work out. Chalk it up to experience and move on. That's how the game is played, sister...
posted by wfrgms at 10:03 PM on May 31, 2008

I think you owe it to yourself to give it one clear shot. Either tell him (in person, not email!) that you are attracted to him, or just put the moves on him in a big way -- go in for the kiss, etc. There is nothing wrong with being kind of traditional -- have you considered saying to him (phone or email): "I've been really enjoying hanging out with you; would you like to go on a date with me on Friday for dinner and a movie?" (Substitute any activity you prefer, but make sure it is an invitation that specifies an activity, a day, and a time, is clearly a DATE, and to which he needs to give a "yes" or "no"; any answer that isn't a "yes" or a "I'm busy then, how about Tuesday?" should be read as a nice way to say "no.")

What you are doing -- backing off, letting him indicate if he is serious, etc -- is perfect for 95% of the time. But if he really is a big dork around girls, there is the possibility he is sitting there thinking "wow, she is so cool, I'd better not make a pass at her or I'll lose this awesome friendship" etc. And if that's the case, it will take your intervention to get past that barrier -- he is unlikely to provide that initiative on his own. So take the risk of a rejection and give it a clear attempt, but don't keep banging your head against the brick wall if he doesn't say "yes" at this point. Sometimes the chemistry just isn't there, for whatever reason. Clarity is good, frustration and futility are not.
posted by Forktine at 10:10 PM on May 31, 2008 [1 favorite]

While I'm all for girls not sitting around waiting for boys to pursue them (heh...in theory), I have to say that if there's one thing I've learned is that it's rarely worthwhile to waste time pining for someone who isn't giving you the same energy back. If you put yourself out there, and he's not giving it back, then move on until either a) he comes to his senses or b) you find someone else. Do you want to waste time on someone who can't be bothered to try even a little bit?
posted by SassHat at 11:32 PM on May 31, 2008 [4 favorites]

He shares things with me he says he's never told anyone.

Every time a guy told me this it turned out he was some sort of dork Casanova*. You would certainly be in a better position to check that out, but the whole story you're telling sounds like a guy who delights in the attention and drama of flirting but doesn't actually desire or (more importantly) know how to sustain an actual relationship.

The 'flaky and has bad luck with women' part especially sounds like something worth getting specifics about.

*poor Casanova. He fell in love at the drop of a hat, and it lasted until another woman came into view. The most memorable part of his interminable memoirs to me is when he talks about the lady who was so charming one would never notice her missing eye.
posted by winna at 11:45 PM on May 31, 2008 [2 favorites]

If he has bad luck with women, he might have a relationship history that gives him issues/hang-ups wrt new potential relationships. It might see him choosing to play it cool and possibly lose the prospect of a wonderful fulfilling relationship with you because he is afraid of what might happen instead: another nightmarish, bad relationship that leaves the two of you wrung out and hurt. It might be useful to know how long it has been since he was last in a relationship; maybe he is still hurting or still has issues he needs to work through. All these things do not veto the possibility of you and him getting together, but they may create oddities/idiosyncracies in his behaviour especially at this initial stage that may create a lot of puzzlement and confusion on your end.

Solution: be clear, be direct; ask him if he wants to just be friends or if he is interested in something more. Tell him that you are interested in something more. Kiss him. etc. If it turns out that he really isn't that into you and just wants to be friends or something, then at least you'd find out now rather than later. Many other dorky fish in the sea, etc.
posted by nihraguk at 12:32 AM on June 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

I know this guy (not literally), because I was this guy. I'm guessing he is prone toward moderate self-destructive behavior. The better something seems, the more likely it is he'll do something to blow it, as he seems to be doing with you.

Don't give up. Such guys can be reformed -- if everything else about him seems great, don't let this flakiness stand in your way. But don't throw yourself at him. What you need to do is play some games. Yes, games. Allow the friendship to grow organically. Do not, under any circumstances, talk about "us" (not yet). Make it easy for him to talk to you and to be with you. Let plans be made casually or to just happen. Then, when you've become a part of his life, someone he needs to check in with a few times a day (which, given your shared interests, sounds likely), start to show signs that it's not completely unconditional. Show him that he needs to make some effort. The key is that he should have some fear of blowing it, but not so much that he falls into his habit of preemptively doing so.
posted by lionelhutz5 at 12:55 AM on June 1, 2008 [3 favorites]

Yeah, I think I've been this guy, too. He's told you things that he says that he's never told anyone else? He's just shy. Jump him.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 1:52 AM on June 1, 2008

I don't know if he likes you or not. There is actually only one person who knows, if you want to find out, ask him.
posted by delmoi at 2:33 AM on June 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

I can only speak for certain types of extremely "shy guys" like myself, but I have to disagree with others in this thread that are saying that his lack of action and reciprocity are obvious signs that "he's just not into you." That may be true when it comes to typical guys, but it doesn't sound like your guy is a "typical" guy (as seen in Cosmo Magazine and/or Sex and the City)

Some people are shy for conditioned reasons, some of the most significant being fear of failure, judgment and rejection. He may have an established history of reading into signals given off by women that weren't really signals at all, but merely friendly gestures. Most guys can easily brush off embarrassments like that as being one of the costs of pursuing the opposite sex, but many shy guys are much more sensitive than that, and for whatever reason, it sticks with them and causes them to be suspicious of behavior that seem like "signals", because they haven't forgotten the last time that they felt like a fool because they thought a girl was signaling attraction, but really wasn't.

I'm one of those guys who has had a lifetime 0% batting average when it comes to correctly interpreting signals given off by the opposite sex. You eventually get to a point where you stop swinging the bat, because you know you'll miss. If this guy is anything like me, he really loves your friendship and the connection/sense of trust you mutually have, but he's afraid of screwing things up by interpreting that connection as anything other than a strong friendship.

In lieu of explicit messages from you that you LIKE-like him, he's not going to cross that line. Basically, if you want this guy, you're gonna have to "jump him", as tenpounds mentioned. My ex-gf literally did just that with me, and let me tell you, it was such a relief when it happened. I had about 40 tons of emotions of deep love and affection that I had been holding back that all came rushing out the moment she basically flat out said "I Love You, you big dork!!!" (TMI-filter: and not to mention, we had the most amazing sex of our lives that very night).

This all goes against every dating rule-book that has been written by normal people, but there ARE people out there who need to have confirmation in some unambiguous way that you're interested in them at a deeper-than-friends level. It doesn't mean that they don't "get it", or are clueless about your "signals". I'm sure he sees your signals quite clearly, he's just second guessing his interpretation of said signals.

I'm not implying that you're right or wrong in playing by the "Rules" book, but there are always exceptions to the rules, and if this guy is as neat as you think he is, the only rules you should be following are the ones that your instinct and emotional stamina can deal with, and not what advice columns or random people on the Internet tell you. If you're sick of him not taking your bait (as ambiguous as it is), then you need to move on. But if you're still willing to chip through his shell to get a clear "yes" or "no" from him, then you need to step up the size of your shell-chipper. Everything you've written implies that you haven't fessed up to him regarding your attraction. You're not dealing with a typical guy here. He's never going to grab you by your shoulders and confidently plant a big wet kiss on your lips like in the movies...unless you make it *explicit* that it would be okay for him to do just that.

It worked for me.
posted by melorama at 3:10 AM on June 1, 2008 [8 favorites]

He likes you but is unsure how to proceed/shy.
posted by mattoxic at 4:13 AM on June 1, 2008

I'm going with the 'shy, and doesn't know how to play the game'. I'd suggest he doesn't think he's got a chance with you, and is not following up in order to protect himself from being hurt. You're in the friend zone because he probably thinks that's all he can get.

Tell him how YOU feel, directly, which may involve snogging. At the very least, say what you mean verbally so it's clear.

I've been with my partner for years, and there's still plenty of times that non-verbal signals clear to her go WHOOOSH straight over my head. I'm also terrible at returning emails/phone calls that don't have a question in them. Best of luck.
posted by ArkhanJG at 4:49 AM on June 1, 2008

Actually, now I think about it, I'm terrible at replying to emails and messages full stop. I was even worse when I was younger. Don't assume lack of texting or calls means he's not interested, it just means he's not chasing you.

Knees touching? Take it from a dork; he's into you. He just doesn't know how to say it, or he's too afraid to do so.
posted by ArkhanJG at 5:00 AM on June 1, 2008

Does it really matter? In other words, are you wondering because you don't know if you are going to do the guy "role" here or are you wondering if you should stop?

If you are wondering because you want to ask him out on a date but only if he is going to say yes to you, welcome to his world.

In other words, explicitly ask him out on a "date." That's how you'll find out. Its much more acceptable now and it appears that he's had some bad experiences which make him shy.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:39 AM on June 1, 2008

I'm a girl, and I've dated guys that sound similar to the this guy you're interested in. Lemme tell ya sista: no guts, no glory. Ask him out on a real date! Guys like this usually prefer a girl to be direct, and I thought melorama explained the guy's point of view really well.

A lot of my guy friends tell me that there are often just too many subtle signals, game playing, etc. and they don't want to come off as a creep if their advances aren't warranted, so it is a lot better all the way around if the girl does the asking.

I agree. I've asked several guys out in the last decade...(I'm 27)..I've had two or three turn me down, but on the whole I find it a lot more fulfilling to just be direct and go after what (who!) you want than to sit around flirting, texting, alluding, signaling to the object of your desire, hoping he gets the hint. And guys, no offense, but they really aren't the best with the subtleties!
posted by Flying Squirrel at 6:38 AM on June 1, 2008 [2 favorites]

Never underestimate a dork's obliviousness.

so yeah, be direct, be brave (easier said than done).
keep in mind that he might not be into so much after all (but asking will find this out).

in the meantime, enjoy the crush.
I've found crushes to be one of the best treats available to the single person.
posted by Busithoth at 7:54 AM on June 1, 2008

A very dear friend of mine is like this, and the only way to get him to take action is to boink him. I think you "best answered" the right answers. This kind of boy is not a player. He's way too clueless to know how to be one.
posted by matildaben at 8:59 AM on June 1, 2008

He offers to buy me ice cream.

That was a date. I don't offer to buy my friends ice cream. Stop playing games and hiding behind your mutual interest, and ask him to come over to your place for a drink.
posted by sondrialiac at 11:07 AM on June 1, 2008

TomMelee and sanspoint have, notwithstanding the latter's name, a point. One of the advantages of being a member of the boobied half of the species is that you can get away with moves like that. Worst case scenario, there's a little awkwardness. Best case: you win.
posted by paultopia at 11:26 AM on June 1, 2008

melorama: I'm just going to second everything you said and ask you to talk to every girl in DFW for me.
posted by cmoj at 11:40 AM on June 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

This is not what you asked but, "What's killing me is that I've met a number of guys lately who ask for my number and ask me out right away. I'm not into any of them, though, because I like Boy, and I don't want to lead anyone on."

Going out with someone you don't plan to marry is not called "leading them on." It is called dating. Possibly boy is not making a big move because he is not 100 percent in love or not 100 percent sure he can make it work and because of these doubts he does not want to "lead you on." See how that can be a monkey wrench?

Seriously.

If you have some interst in some guy who asks you out, you might consider saying yes to see if he gets more interesting.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 4:50 PM on June 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm basically with melorama. I've got a batting average close to zero and also no sense of how to date properly because I spent my late teens to early 20s in a monogamous relationship that I thought I was always going to be in.

Eventually I did just gave up because I got tired of thinking things were going well but then finding out the girl was just being polite.

Just put the boy out of his misery and just tell him you like-like him already. He probably wants to tell you so badly but is scared that you'll start getting the stalker vibe and things between you will sour and you kind of get sick of that after a while.
posted by Talez at 11:09 PM on June 1, 2008

My current g/f just came on pretty strong and didn't require me to "play the game" all that much at all. It was more like "You, come here..." and she proceeds to grab me by the shirt, pull me to her and start making out. Very direct. Been together a year since. No problems.

I, too, am one of those dense types. Book smarts, but no people smarts. I've been in all long term relationships with no casual dating/flings. There are still moments where I'm just completely inept, strong in all other aspects of living, but the subtle social nuances escape me like a fart in the wind. For me, it's the proverbial Achille's hill, and it gets me every time.

But, for this guy, just be direct. I concur with the aforementioned statements - point the gun right at him and be a straight shooter. Depending on his reaction it could blow up (no biggie, right?) or could progress to a kiss and even some tension relieving hanky panky.

I can feel for the guy though, for whatever reason he is fleeting. Being there and doing that myself at times...At the root of it, it really is just being self defeating. That, or he just isn't into you, but I wouldn't think that being your supposed 7 hours of solid connecting. If you connected, its probable he connected too. It's rare for only one party to feel that "connection", in my experience.
posted by dirtysocks at 8:35 PM on June 3, 2008

HOW DID IT GO.
posted by Skyanth at 6:59 AM on June 13, 2008