Who am I?
May 20, 2008 2:03 AM Subscribe
A Crisis of Identity? All my life, I've been the sort of person to avoid my faith to a certain extent (I would pray and try and be as good a muslim as I could, but there was always so much more I could do, and I knew it). Recently, I've met someone who's awakened that desire in me to finally make the commitment, and it feels great to have begun to do so, but there's another side of me that feels like I'm (I don't even know how to say it...) cheating on it...
It feels really weird to be in this sort of position. I feel like I'm being pulled in two different directions, and I don't want to give up on either one of them completely (although I do feel very strongly about my faith now) I have this huge guilt of letting that part of my life go which has been with me for the past 28 years.
What should I do? Do I bury the past and move on with the future, or do I try and create some kind of balance between the two--which would be extremely hard and kind of mentally torturing in a schizophrenic sort of way. I already have enough mental problems as it is so I don't want to be adding to the pile, but I would like some reflection on this subject by people who have been in a similar position and have had to deal with these kinds of feelings of loss and confusion.
Thanks in advance.
It feels really weird to be in this sort of position. I feel like I'm being pulled in two different directions, and I don't want to give up on either one of them completely (although I do feel very strongly about my faith now) I have this huge guilt of letting that part of my life go which has been with me for the past 28 years.
What should I do? Do I bury the past and move on with the future, or do I try and create some kind of balance between the two--which would be extremely hard and kind of mentally torturing in a schizophrenic sort of way. I already have enough mental problems as it is so I don't want to be adding to the pile, but I would like some reflection on this subject by people who have been in a similar position and have had to deal with these kinds of feelings of loss and confusion.
Thanks in advance.
it's not clear what you mean, you mean you're pulled to things that are forbidden by Islam but you still want to be very observant?
posted by matteo at 2:39 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by matteo at 2:39 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
(or, you know, it's more philosophical, like you understand that doctrine is illogic but you'd still like to believe it 100%)
posted by matteo at 2:41 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by matteo at 2:41 AM on May 20, 2008
Response by poster: Well, not forbidden I'd say, but I want to be the best muslim that I can be, and if that means wearing simple clothes like a kurta pyjama and having a beard and maybe not being as materialistic as I once wanted to be, then I want to do that. However, there's the other part of me who's trying to justify having all of these things by saying--you don't have to give up on your jeans and tshirts, or the bike that you always wanted, or any of the other flashy stuff, but again--that would run contrary to my desire of trying to be the best muslim that I can be, and following a simple kind of life.
weirdo, i have no problem with the drinking and the partying--never done it in my life--but the porn: now there's something I want to be rid of from my life forever;)
posted by hadjiboy at 2:50 AM on May 20, 2008
weirdo, i have no problem with the drinking and the partying--never done it in my life--but the porn: now there's something I want to be rid of from my life forever;)
posted by hadjiboy at 2:50 AM on May 20, 2008
Response by poster: like you understand that doctrine is illogic
Here's my problem: I think you can be a good muslim and yet not give up on all the worldly stuff that you want, but I think you can be an even better one if you can learn to forgo such pleasures as much as possible, to a certain extent. I mean--a car is something that I consider necessary for my family to get around in, but a bike (for me) I'd consider that to be a waste, something which I could do without.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
posted by hadjiboy at 2:54 AM on May 20, 2008
Here's my problem: I think you can be a good muslim and yet not give up on all the worldly stuff that you want, but I think you can be an even better one if you can learn to forgo such pleasures as much as possible, to a certain extent. I mean--a car is something that I consider necessary for my family to get around in, but a bike (for me) I'd consider that to be a waste, something which I could do without.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
posted by hadjiboy at 2:54 AM on May 20, 2008
We are on this earth to play and have fun. We are born with the right to be happy, with the right to enjoy life. We are not here to suffer. Whoever wants to suffer is welcome to, but we don't have to. Then why do we?
Because the whole world suffers we make the assumption that suffering is normal. Then we create a belief system to support that truth. Our religions tell us that we came here to suffer, that life is one tear after another. Suffer today, have patience, and when you die you will have your reward. Sounds beautiful, but it needn't be true.
Awakenings such as you are experiencing happen all the time because they are performed by the heart. The heart is in direct communion with the soul, and when the heart speaks, even with the mind's resistance, something inside you changes. Your heart opens another heart, and true love is possible.
The teachings that come from the major religions of the world come from the same truth. They talk about reclaiming your Divinity. They talk about having your heart completely open and becoming wise. Can you imagine what kind of world this would be if all humans opened their hearts and found the love inside? Everyone can do it in their own way. It isn't about following any imposed idea. It's about finding yourself, and expressing yourself in your own particular way.
posted by netbros at 3:07 AM on May 20, 2008 [4 favorites]
Because the whole world suffers we make the assumption that suffering is normal. Then we create a belief system to support that truth. Our religions tell us that we came here to suffer, that life is one tear after another. Suffer today, have patience, and when you die you will have your reward. Sounds beautiful, but it needn't be true.
Awakenings such as you are experiencing happen all the time because they are performed by the heart. The heart is in direct communion with the soul, and when the heart speaks, even with the mind's resistance, something inside you changes. Your heart opens another heart, and true love is possible.
The teachings that come from the major religions of the world come from the same truth. They talk about reclaiming your Divinity. They talk about having your heart completely open and becoming wise. Can you imagine what kind of world this would be if all humans opened their hearts and found the love inside? Everyone can do it in their own way. It isn't about following any imposed idea. It's about finding yourself, and expressing yourself in your own particular way.
posted by netbros at 3:07 AM on May 20, 2008 [4 favorites]
It sounds like you're trying to reconcile your desire to 'be good' and to 'feel good', to be really simplistic. It seems to me to be similar to this question about how to reconcile personal ambition with altruism, and really to be the same essential question as anyone faces when considering a cause - I could be a really good enviromentalist if I were willing to give up x,y and z but I am still doing a reasonable job if I only give up x, so is that good enough? It's like the question of whether to become an activist or just be 'normal' and make a partial effort.
I don't think there is any one answer: I imagine that most people face this question in some area, and the majority of them compromise (instead of becoming activists, or nuns, or workaholics) and some of them find a balance they can accept and the rest continue to worry/feel bad about their compromise for their whole lives.
posted by jacalata at 3:13 AM on May 20, 2008
I don't think there is any one answer: I imagine that most people face this question in some area, and the majority of them compromise (instead of becoming activists, or nuns, or workaholics) and some of them find a balance they can accept and the rest continue to worry/feel bad about their compromise for their whole lives.
posted by jacalata at 3:13 AM on May 20, 2008
Response by poster: Yeah, but netbros--my question isn't to make people suffer because of religion (something that is forbidden in Islam as far as I am aware--after all--it is said that he has created the world for our enjoyment, and so we should partake in it)--but the part where it gets fuzzy for me is how much is "too much" of a good thing--because that is something that IS forbidden. If you have money to spend--spend it, but if you're spending it on something that you can probably do without, why not spend it on someone who needs the money just as much as you do--and for something probably far more important... I guess I just haven't figured that part out of the whole cycle yet.
Which is why I was hoping for some clues, but I appreciate your answer nonetheless:)
Thanks!
posted by hadjiboy at 3:14 AM on May 20, 2008
Which is why I was hoping for some clues, but I appreciate your answer nonetheless:)
Thanks!
posted by hadjiboy at 3:14 AM on May 20, 2008
well the anti-consumerist thing is cool, try it out, same as the beard/pajamas thing. give it a try, you can always go back to a less moderate (modern dress, clean shaven etc) version of Islam later. when it comes to the clash between faith and reason, there are plenty of resources I know -- books -- but none of them relate to Islam so I'm not sure I have any books to advise you to read. good luck though, you'll see that less consumption and wearing a beard never killed anybody anyway.
posted by matteo at 3:23 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by matteo at 3:23 AM on May 20, 2008
Response by poster: Thank you jacalata for the link--I think uxo summarized the problem much more eloquently than I did, but I wouldn't classify my problem as one of ambition--I plan to take up a good job and try and earn a decent amount of money to try and support my family and donate to charity if I can--but, and here's what's bothering me--do I have to go through a certain kind of a lifestyle change in order for me to make my peace with God?
I suppose your x, y and z analogy has much more in common with what I'm talking about, and maybe I'm just looking for an easy way out rather than making the commitment?
posted by hadjiboy at 3:23 AM on May 20, 2008
I suppose your x, y and z analogy has much more in common with what I'm talking about, and maybe I'm just looking for an easy way out rather than making the commitment?
posted by hadjiboy at 3:23 AM on May 20, 2008
Now with clarification, let me change my answer. ;)
Don't cross the line between what you want and what is ostentatious. For example, perhaps you need a television to watch the nightly news. That's all well and good, so buy a TV set, but don't buy an incredibly fancy one. Or a bicycle. It's not unneeded, it gets you around or may provide you with excercise. And if you want to buy a new one, buy what you need to accomplish your goal in purchasing it. Buy a reasonable one, not some two thousand dollar light as a feather racing bike that is not at all utilitarian.
And give the old one to someone who can use it.
Don't buy useless adornments. Don't buy a new cell phone because you just have to have the latest and greatest. There's no purpose in it.
All this is to say don't buy things without purpose or beyond the purpose for which you require them if your goal is to be less consumerist. Don't consume just to consume; don't buy something to impress others. Obviously you have to have some sort of moderation or you'll end up living in a shack with no running water or electricity. You can survive that way, so are the "luxuries" like a car or electricity really necessary? You can sing, so is a guitar (or other instrument) really necessary?
posted by wierdo at 3:27 AM on May 20, 2008
Don't cross the line between what you want and what is ostentatious. For example, perhaps you need a television to watch the nightly news. That's all well and good, so buy a TV set, but don't buy an incredibly fancy one. Or a bicycle. It's not unneeded, it gets you around or may provide you with excercise. And if you want to buy a new one, buy what you need to accomplish your goal in purchasing it. Buy a reasonable one, not some two thousand dollar light as a feather racing bike that is not at all utilitarian.
And give the old one to someone who can use it.
Don't buy useless adornments. Don't buy a new cell phone because you just have to have the latest and greatest. There's no purpose in it.
All this is to say don't buy things without purpose or beyond the purpose for which you require them if your goal is to be less consumerist. Don't consume just to consume; don't buy something to impress others. Obviously you have to have some sort of moderation or you'll end up living in a shack with no running water or electricity. You can survive that way, so are the "luxuries" like a car or electricity really necessary? You can sing, so is a guitar (or other instrument) really necessary?
posted by wierdo at 3:27 AM on May 20, 2008
To me, it seems that the best way to achieve balance in the doctrine induced contradiction of being good vs feeling good is to adopt as many of the practices that give the biggest win in *both* camps and make it a lifelong goal to learn how the rest in the "being good" camp with help you feel good too.
I have not adopted all the doctrines of my faith. I do try to be kind, patient, loving, generous, and thoughtful. I don't know that adopting other aspects right now would help me or my greater community, but I'm patient and so is God.
posted by plinth at 3:42 AM on May 20, 2008
I have not adopted all the doctrines of my faith. I do try to be kind, patient, loving, generous, and thoughtful. I don't know that adopting other aspects right now would help me or my greater community, but I'm patient and so is God.
posted by plinth at 3:42 AM on May 20, 2008
What I was trying to say is that I think you are both asking the same question, focusing on different aspects of life where you are struggling to decide on a balance. When you say 'I plan to..earn a decent amount of money', do you face the same problem in deciding what a decent amount of money is? Do you wonder how much you should devote yourself to work, and how much time would be better spent at home being personally involved with your family and neighbourhood? What if you could work an extra 12 hours a week and donate exponentially more to charity? What if you have a job where every hour worked directly performs a charitable function, then how do you decide when to go home to your family? If the environment is important to you, why haven't you devoted your life to being an activist?
Sorry if I'm just muddling things more, but the idea I'm going for is: If you find these areas of life easier to plan/be happy with, then what is the difference in your approach? How have you decided on the balance you take between these competing needs?
Overall, I think matteo is right: you'll never know if embracing an ascetic life will bring you fulfilment/peace unless you try it. If you don't want to completely abandon your jeans wearing self, maybe give it up for a month (do you have an equivalent to Lent, where you make a 40-day commitment to some particular thing?). Maybe after that initial month you'll end up spending the next few years without jeans, and then you'll decide that you don't need to wear a kufta. Unless you go enter (the Muslim equivalent of) the priesthood, you can always backtrack a little as you find your own balance. And in fact, my father actually entered the seminary as a young man, then decided it wasn't for him and left. Nobody knows your right answer, and unless you're one of those few people who see only one possible way to live life, then you probably have multiple right answers anyway.
posted by jacalata at 3:58 AM on May 20, 2008
Sorry if I'm just muddling things more, but the idea I'm going for is: If you find these areas of life easier to plan/be happy with, then what is the difference in your approach? How have you decided on the balance you take between these competing needs?
Overall, I think matteo is right: you'll never know if embracing an ascetic life will bring you fulfilment/peace unless you try it. If you don't want to completely abandon your jeans wearing self, maybe give it up for a month (do you have an equivalent to Lent, where you make a 40-day commitment to some particular thing?). Maybe after that initial month you'll end up spending the next few years without jeans, and then you'll decide that you don't need to wear a kufta. Unless you go enter (the Muslim equivalent of) the priesthood, you can always backtrack a little as you find your own balance. And in fact, my father actually entered the seminary as a young man, then decided it wasn't for him and left. Nobody knows your right answer, and unless you're one of those few people who see only one possible way to live life, then you probably have multiple right answers anyway.
posted by jacalata at 3:58 AM on May 20, 2008
Response by poster: How have you decided on the balance you take between these competing needs?
Well, weekdays are meant for work, and weekends with the family or friends:)
What I meant by "I plan to" was that since I'm starting a new job, I haven't yet had the chance to implement any of the things I'm talking about...
But I hadn't thought of your--if you don't like it later, you can always leave it--because I don't want to abandon this lifestyle that I'm contemplating having; I just want to be prepared for all the hard work that I might have to do, and was wondering how folks who've gone through this same ordeal have handled the pressure?
posted by hadjiboy at 4:15 AM on May 20, 2008
Well, weekdays are meant for work, and weekends with the family or friends:)
What I meant by "I plan to" was that since I'm starting a new job, I haven't yet had the chance to implement any of the things I'm talking about...
But I hadn't thought of your--if you don't like it later, you can always leave it--because I don't want to abandon this lifestyle that I'm contemplating having; I just want to be prepared for all the hard work that I might have to do, and was wondering how folks who've gone through this same ordeal have handled the pressure?
posted by hadjiboy at 4:15 AM on May 20, 2008
You can only do so much in a day.
If you give up owning a bike, then you may be less likely to exercise, less likely to conserve energy, less likely to mix with your neighbors, etc. Are these things important parts of your religious life?
"Giving up things" isn't an unconditional good. An example of this is the growing awareness in the Christian community that giving money to charities is easier, and in the end less of a commitment, then a) spending the money themselves in a religiously mindful way; and b) giving time and energy and spiritual commitment to charities, but also to neighbors and friends, schools and government, and to the general community.
There are many ways to express faith, to live in a spiritually pure way. It is often tempting to choose the simplest ones that require the least thought and energy.
When what you do becomes more of a focus of your time and energy than how you think or what you believe, then you are on the wrong track. There is no path to God that focuses more on shoes than it does on how you walk.
posted by ewkpates at 4:35 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you give up owning a bike, then you may be less likely to exercise, less likely to conserve energy, less likely to mix with your neighbors, etc. Are these things important parts of your religious life?
"Giving up things" isn't an unconditional good. An example of this is the growing awareness in the Christian community that giving money to charities is easier, and in the end less of a commitment, then a) spending the money themselves in a religiously mindful way; and b) giving time and energy and spiritual commitment to charities, but also to neighbors and friends, schools and government, and to the general community.
There are many ways to express faith, to live in a spiritually pure way. It is often tempting to choose the simplest ones that require the least thought and energy.
When what you do becomes more of a focus of your time and energy than how you think or what you believe, then you are on the wrong track. There is no path to God that focuses more on shoes than it does on how you walk.
posted by ewkpates at 4:35 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
here's my thought about materialism--conforming to a certain way of simplicity IS a form of materialism. think about how wasteful it would be to get rid of your clothes and replace them with kurtas. mortification of the flesh (more of an issue of ascetic christians, i think) is a form of carnality. you can be just as indulgent in restriction as you can in excess.
so grow the beard, only replace your clothes and things when you need to (not when style/trends demand) and give your extra stuff to charity. basically what weirdo above suggests.
i think it's possible to bridge both worlds in a reasonable way. there are many orthodox jews (in fact, the majority of them) do not wear the black-hat-and-suit uniform or the peyyes (sidelocks)--they wear standard western clothes, if more modestly, they speak the local language as their first language instead of yiddish, and generally exist in the secular world while making some exceptions to keep the sabbath.
have you spoken to a non-fundamentalist imam about this?
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:36 AM on May 20, 2008
so grow the beard, only replace your clothes and things when you need to (not when style/trends demand) and give your extra stuff to charity. basically what weirdo above suggests.
i think it's possible to bridge both worlds in a reasonable way. there are many orthodox jews (in fact, the majority of them) do not wear the black-hat-and-suit uniform or the peyyes (sidelocks)--they wear standard western clothes, if more modestly, they speak the local language as their first language instead of yiddish, and generally exist in the secular world while making some exceptions to keep the sabbath.
have you spoken to a non-fundamentalist imam about this?
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:36 AM on May 20, 2008
Is the desire you have happening because of the wish to please your new relationship? Or do you genuinely feel this desire in your heart? As thinkingwoman has suggested, your imam is likely to help you resolve your quandary and put your mind at ease.
posted by netbros at 4:54 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by netbros at 4:54 AM on May 20, 2008
Do I bury the past and move on with the future, or do I try and create some kind of balance between the two--which would be extremely hard and kind of mentally torturing in a schizophrenic sort of way
consider being in the present. (i'm not joking)
I've always found that 'balance' is the right answer... (and lot of other people here) -
it seems to me one's religion should give comfort and peace, not confusion and worry or "torture"
posted by mrmarley at 5:18 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
consider being in the present. (i'm not joking)
I've always found that 'balance' is the right answer... (and lot of other people here) -
it seems to me one's religion should give comfort and peace, not confusion and worry or "torture"
posted by mrmarley at 5:18 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
"do I have to go through a certain kind of a lifestyle change in order for me to make my peace?"
"I don't want to abandon this lifestyle that I'm contemplating..."
Maybe I'm just nitpicking words here but you seem a bit attached to the lifestyle when, with religion and faith I think you should be more concerned with finding your real inner beliefs.
When you commit to what you find inside of you then hopefully you can let your actions follow the faith in a natural manner. Yes, of course, there are all sorts of thing you need to do or not do, but the reason for that must come from your true belief.
posted by bobobox at 5:50 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
"I don't want to abandon this lifestyle that I'm contemplating..."
Maybe I'm just nitpicking words here but you seem a bit attached to the lifestyle when, with religion and faith I think you should be more concerned with finding your real inner beliefs.
When you commit to what you find inside of you then hopefully you can let your actions follow the faith in a natural manner. Yes, of course, there are all sorts of thing you need to do or not do, but the reason for that must come from your true belief.
posted by bobobox at 5:50 AM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Is the desire you have happening because of the wish to please your new relationship?
It started out that way, and to be honest with you--it still is, but I can feel a change coming over me that has not very much to do with the relationship. Like the joy it brings me, or the pride that I find myself taking in performing my religious duties.
have you spoken to a non-fundamentalist imam about this?
Have those two got to be mutually exclusive?:)
No, I haven't spoken to an Imam, but you don't have to be a fundamentalist or a non-fundamentalist one to not know what the hell you're talking about--which is why I'm wary of approaching anyone at this stage; I'd rather build up my faith a little more and then expose myself to what anyone else has to say on the subject.
If you give up owning a bike, then you may be less likely to exercise
I was talking about the kinds of bikes which run on gasoline;)
I don't know who said it above, but someone mentioned that if you've found faith that you'd have to be more at peace with yourself rather than the other way around, and not be confused and "tortured". I think the way to look at it is this: when you've been fighting something your whole life, and are faced with the last vestiges of what could be what you'd been searching for your entire life--it's more than a little scary, especially when it's so much easier to go back to the comfort of what you're familiar with. So--no--I don't think that accepting faith is the "easy" way out--far from it. I think, in today's world--it's the hardest thing for someone to admit to.
Kind of like throwing away those ratty old shoes and dancing for the first time, aye ewkpates?:)
posted by hadjiboy at 6:15 AM on May 20, 2008
It started out that way, and to be honest with you--it still is, but I can feel a change coming over me that has not very much to do with the relationship. Like the joy it brings me, or the pride that I find myself taking in performing my religious duties.
have you spoken to a non-fundamentalist imam about this?
Have those two got to be mutually exclusive?:)
No, I haven't spoken to an Imam, but you don't have to be a fundamentalist or a non-fundamentalist one to not know what the hell you're talking about--which is why I'm wary of approaching anyone at this stage; I'd rather build up my faith a little more and then expose myself to what anyone else has to say on the subject.
If you give up owning a bike, then you may be less likely to exercise
I was talking about the kinds of bikes which run on gasoline;)
I don't know who said it above, but someone mentioned that if you've found faith that you'd have to be more at peace with yourself rather than the other way around, and not be confused and "tortured". I think the way to look at it is this: when you've been fighting something your whole life, and are faced with the last vestiges of what could be what you'd been searching for your entire life--it's more than a little scary, especially when it's so much easier to go back to the comfort of what you're familiar with. So--no--I don't think that accepting faith is the "easy" way out--far from it. I think, in today's world--it's the hardest thing for someone to admit to.
Kind of like throwing away those ratty old shoes and dancing for the first time, aye ewkpates?:)
posted by hadjiboy at 6:15 AM on May 20, 2008
but someone mentioned that if you've found faith that you'd have to be more at peace with yourself rather than the other way around, and not be confused and "tortured".
Yeah, I don't know how true that is. I'm not a religious person, so I may be exactly the wrong person to ask, but I knew a nun once (old family friend) who said that faith is not the absence of doubt, but rather belief despite doubt.
posted by rtha at 6:19 AM on May 20, 2008
Yeah, I don't know how true that is. I'm not a religious person, so I may be exactly the wrong person to ask, but I knew a nun once (old family friend) who said that faith is not the absence of doubt, but rather belief despite doubt.
posted by rtha at 6:19 AM on May 20, 2008
I think this is a false dichotomy-- being good versus feeling good. If there is something about being good that doesn't make you feel good, then you need to examine your definitions. Without the faith aspect, I have been attempting a similar excising of my american-born-and-bred consumerist tendencies, which basically means that I am attempting "don't buy it if I don't need it." What I've found is that I feel better *not* buying that really cute purse than I used to feel buying it. I felt good buying cool stuff, but there was always this underlay of guilt and anger at myself. Discarding the material things that I don't really need has made me feel and I believe be a better person.
Not being a person of faith inasmuch as I don't follow any organized religion, I can only speculate how the need to be a godly person on top of this would confuse the issue. I think this is where you are still unreconciled hadjiboy. Can you try with what parts of "being good" also make you "feel good." Identify what it is about those things that seem in balance and then start applying them to the areas in conflict.
Some of it may be youth. When you're young so much of who you are is based on how you are perceived-- by your peers, by random strangers, by all those you interact with. This is the hardest thing to let go of, but in fact it's the least important aspect of a righteous life. How you are perceived-- pyjamas and beard vs jeans and tshirt-- is in fact between you and g-d. For any religion with such public expressions demonstrating your faith you are going to have to understand that the public expression of faith is a huge part of living this righteous life. This is what is wrong with American Xtianity, and in fact the entire american non-culture. We seem here to believe that we can look, do, and act in any way (the old canard "if it feels good, do it"), but as long as we go to church/temple and "believe in g-d" we'll go to heaven.
Any transformation is a process. Take those aspects that seem natural and right, and you will find the balance that you seek.
posted by nax at 6:34 AM on May 20, 2008
Not being a person of faith inasmuch as I don't follow any organized religion, I can only speculate how the need to be a godly person on top of this would confuse the issue. I think this is where you are still unreconciled hadjiboy. Can you try with what parts of "being good" also make you "feel good." Identify what it is about those things that seem in balance and then start applying them to the areas in conflict.
Some of it may be youth. When you're young so much of who you are is based on how you are perceived-- by your peers, by random strangers, by all those you interact with. This is the hardest thing to let go of, but in fact it's the least important aspect of a righteous life. How you are perceived-- pyjamas and beard vs jeans and tshirt-- is in fact between you and g-d. For any religion with such public expressions demonstrating your faith you are going to have to understand that the public expression of faith is a huge part of living this righteous life. This is what is wrong with American Xtianity, and in fact the entire american non-culture. We seem here to believe that we can look, do, and act in any way (the old canard "if it feels good, do it"), but as long as we go to church/temple and "believe in g-d" we'll go to heaven.
Any transformation is a process. Take those aspects that seem natural and right, and you will find the balance that you seek.
posted by nax at 6:34 AM on May 20, 2008
The key to spiritual improvement is to increase slowly, never taking on so much of a burden that you give it up later. Slow, steady increase - that's the target.
Do you pray five times a day? If not, start with that. No beard or kufi or baggy pants is worth a fraction of what those are worth. If so, do you add nawafil before or after? If not, start with the two before fajr. If you're on for five a day but you don't feel you could add more, consider adding an extra devotion of a different nature. Do you recite Quran daily? If not, start with a page a day. If so, try to finish a hizb. Do you have a daily awrad? etc. That's all external devotions, but they have an inner effect. If your concerns are mostly about taming material desires, a useful first step might be making sadaqah. Do you donate a certain amount to charity every month? If there is a masjid or a saint's maqam nearby that runs a soup kitchen you could set up a donation to them. Don't make it a painful amount, or even a substantial amount at first. You can always increase it later. None of these things require major alterations to your lifestyle. The daily five, a page of quran and a small zikr take about 30 minutes a day, total. Whatever new devotion you add, keep it continuously for 40 days before you add another.
You talk about a clean break but from what exactly? If you've developed bad habits or personality traits that you're trying to overcome, you might benefit from more formal spiritual training. Are there tariqats that are active in your area? Are there shuyukh who you or your family trust? You could start there. If not, there are sufi orders with fairly active internet communities. Not nearly as useful as people in the flesh, but maybe of some benefit.
Email is in the profile if I can be of any assistance. Peace.
posted by BinGregory at 6:40 AM on May 20, 2008 [3 favorites]
Do you pray five times a day? If not, start with that. No beard or kufi or baggy pants is worth a fraction of what those are worth. If so, do you add nawafil before or after? If not, start with the two before fajr. If you're on for five a day but you don't feel you could add more, consider adding an extra devotion of a different nature. Do you recite Quran daily? If not, start with a page a day. If so, try to finish a hizb. Do you have a daily awrad? etc. That's all external devotions, but they have an inner effect. If your concerns are mostly about taming material desires, a useful first step might be making sadaqah. Do you donate a certain amount to charity every month? If there is a masjid or a saint's maqam nearby that runs a soup kitchen you could set up a donation to them. Don't make it a painful amount, or even a substantial amount at first. You can always increase it later. None of these things require major alterations to your lifestyle. The daily five, a page of quran and a small zikr take about 30 minutes a day, total. Whatever new devotion you add, keep it continuously for 40 days before you add another.
You talk about a clean break but from what exactly? If you've developed bad habits or personality traits that you're trying to overcome, you might benefit from more formal spiritual training. Are there tariqats that are active in your area? Are there shuyukh who you or your family trust? You could start there. If not, there are sufi orders with fairly active internet communities. Not nearly as useful as people in the flesh, but maybe of some benefit.
Email is in the profile if I can be of any assistance. Peace.
posted by BinGregory at 6:40 AM on May 20, 2008 [3 favorites]
"... I'm wary of approaching anyone at this stage; I'd rather build up my faith a little more and then expose myself to what anyone else has to say on the subject. ..."
posted by hadjiboy at 9:15 AM on May 20
For those with certain mental health conditions, who may be taking medications, it's important to discuss changes in religious feelings or practices with therapists or doctors supervising their medications. To the person in treatment, there may seem to be no connection between their mental health issues, and changes in their religious interests or feelings, but sometimes, there are. Even simple religious practices like fasting can have implications for those on medications, beyond the immediate consideration of persons unfamiliar with the interactions of food and medications. Changes in religious ideation can also mask underlying indications of drug actions or side effects, too.
If you are in treatment for emotional or mental health issues, make a point of mentioning these new interests and feelings to your therapist or doctor.
posted by paulsc at 6:51 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by hadjiboy at 9:15 AM on May 20
For those with certain mental health conditions, who may be taking medications, it's important to discuss changes in religious feelings or practices with therapists or doctors supervising their medications. To the person in treatment, there may seem to be no connection between their mental health issues, and changes in their religious interests or feelings, but sometimes, there are. Even simple religious practices like fasting can have implications for those on medications, beyond the immediate consideration of persons unfamiliar with the interactions of food and medications. Changes in religious ideation can also mask underlying indications of drug actions or side effects, too.
If you are in treatment for emotional or mental health issues, make a point of mentioning these new interests and feelings to your therapist or doctor.
posted by paulsc at 6:51 AM on May 20, 2008
because I don't want to abandon this lifestyle that I'm contemplating having; I just want to be prepared for all the hard work that I might have to do, and was wondering how folks who've gone through this same ordeal have handled the pressure?
I guess I still don't have a handle on what you're contemplating here. The way you write it here, it sounds like you're about to quit your job and run off with the Tablighi Jamaat. I wouldn't recommend that, if that's what it is, for the reasons I mention above. Slow steady increase that fits in with your daily life, not a drastic break that you'll fall out of next month.
One blessing of Islamic practice is that there are so many acts of devotion you can pursue. Go with what gives you satisfaction. A great one to start with, especially if controlling the nafs is an issue, is fasting - Mondays and Thursdays are best. Take what you would have spent on lunch and give it to the poor.
posted by BinGregory at 6:51 AM on May 20, 2008
I guess I still don't have a handle on what you're contemplating here. The way you write it here, it sounds like you're about to quit your job and run off with the Tablighi Jamaat. I wouldn't recommend that, if that's what it is, for the reasons I mention above. Slow steady increase that fits in with your daily life, not a drastic break that you'll fall out of next month.
One blessing of Islamic practice is that there are so many acts of devotion you can pursue. Go with what gives you satisfaction. A great one to start with, especially if controlling the nafs is an issue, is fasting - Mondays and Thursdays are best. Take what you would have spent on lunch and give it to the poor.
posted by BinGregory at 6:51 AM on May 20, 2008
Response by poster: Hey Bin--yeah, in the past three weeks I've gone from praying five times a day (in a mosque that too--me--a guy who could never imagine taking that kind of precious time out of his life to enter God's house), to reading two Rukus of the Quran at least, to saying all of my Fardh, Sunnath, Nafil and Witr prayers, and even doing some research on the net about stuff that I always wanted to look up but never got around to, and feeling much more connected to everything that's happening around me, except for that small niggling doubt about my former lifestyle which led me to post this, but I think we can put that down to Shaitan rearing his ugly head to steer me off the path;)
There's a whole lot more to do, I know, but I'll take your advice and go slow for now... thanks for the email offer!
posted by hadjiboy at 6:55 AM on May 20, 2008
There's a whole lot more to do, I know, but I'll take your advice and go slow for now... thanks for the email offer!
posted by hadjiboy at 6:55 AM on May 20, 2008
Response by poster: paul, you have no idea how the medical field here works--I told this to nicky once, and she was aghast! I'm too embarrassed to mention it in public, but you'll have to take my word for it--somehow I don't think my therapist would have any problem in me having found god. She'd probably think it's a positive influence since we live in such a religiously manifested society here.
posted by hadjiboy at 7:07 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by hadjiboy at 7:07 AM on May 20, 2008
hadjiboy, I am going to relate a Quaker proverb (and true story) here on behavior change and religious belief that helped me.
William Penn, the Quaker, was made the governor (?) of the then-British colony of Rhode Island. The colonial authority expected him to wear a ceremonial sword as part of his office, but violence and weapons are disapproved of among the Friends (Quakers).
He asked his friend George Fox, founder of the Quakers, what he should do about this dilemma. "Should I wear the sword as they expect?"
Fox's reply: "Wear it as long as you can."
The meaning is that, as we evolve spiritually, we find past behaviors to be less acceptable than they were in the past. It is only when our understanding evolves to that level that we can abandon some of those things.
So do without what you can comfortably do without while practicing your Islam, and note that your definitions of "ostentatious" and "worldly" will evolve as you do.
posted by lleachie at 7:57 AM on May 20, 2008
William Penn, the Quaker, was made the governor (?) of the then-British colony of Rhode Island. The colonial authority expected him to wear a ceremonial sword as part of his office, but violence and weapons are disapproved of among the Friends (Quakers).
He asked his friend George Fox, founder of the Quakers, what he should do about this dilemma. "Should I wear the sword as they expect?"
Fox's reply: "Wear it as long as you can."
The meaning is that, as we evolve spiritually, we find past behaviors to be less acceptable than they were in the past. It is only when our understanding evolves to that level that we can abandon some of those things.
So do without what you can comfortably do without while practicing your Islam, and note that your definitions of "ostentatious" and "worldly" will evolve as you do.
posted by lleachie at 7:57 AM on May 20, 2008
hadjiboy, you are a good person, it comes through in all your comments here. Please have confidence in yourself first as a good and honorable person.
I am not Muslim, nor can I profess to more than a passing knowledge of the religion. However, in general ritual in religion is a way of deepening your faith, providing structure in life and often connecting you with the broader community of your religion. Ritual thus carries high value both to the religion as a whole and to the individual. However, it is my opinion that the most important aspect of faith is faith itself and doing the right thing vis-a-vis your fellow man. In general, and here I can not speak for your religion, acts of ritual come about not from God's direct command, but instead arise from human interpretation of scripture. Once they arise they take on a life of their own. I believe that you can have a deep and abiding faith, be faithful to God and yet not follow the ritual dogmatically. There is nothing wrong with ritual, and there is much good about it, but do not feel guilt when you do not complete all of the very stringent rituals. I personally believe one can be quite devout without following all of the rituals of one's religion.
posted by caddis at 8:34 AM on May 20, 2008
I am not Muslim, nor can I profess to more than a passing knowledge of the religion. However, in general ritual in religion is a way of deepening your faith, providing structure in life and often connecting you with the broader community of your religion. Ritual thus carries high value both to the religion as a whole and to the individual. However, it is my opinion that the most important aspect of faith is faith itself and doing the right thing vis-a-vis your fellow man. In general, and here I can not speak for your religion, acts of ritual come about not from God's direct command, but instead arise from human interpretation of scripture. Once they arise they take on a life of their own. I believe that you can have a deep and abiding faith, be faithful to God and yet not follow the ritual dogmatically. There is nothing wrong with ritual, and there is much good about it, but do not feel guilt when you do not complete all of the very stringent rituals. I personally believe one can be quite devout without following all of the rituals of one's religion.
posted by caddis at 8:34 AM on May 20, 2008
hadjiboy, strive for happiness. You say, "I feel like I'm being pulled in two different directions, and I don't want to give up on either one of them completely (although I do feel very strongly about my faith now) I have this huge guilt of letting that part of my life go which has been with me for the past 28 years."
Try to embrace the contradictions that are within yourself--the contradictions that are within all humans--rather than having them fight. As much as we'd like to "take a side" or see the world in black-n-white, right and wrong, the world doesn't operate that way. "Huge guilt" isn't going to help you at all, isn't going to help your family, yourself...
If you can find out and experiment with what's right and wrong for you, yourself, specifically, then good on you. It isn't often found precisely where you're looking, so don't lock yourself into one way, one path, one strategy. Look for a balance, tinker with the thoughts and actions, track those changes and see how they affect your relationship with the world and beyond, but mostly strive for happiness. Cause we all deserve it, and it's teh bests.
This was less of an answer and more of a pat on the back: good luck!
Now, about that porn you were referring to, would you care to donate it to the n_o_d action organization for leaving porn in the forests for future generations?
posted by not_on_display at 9:48 AM on May 20, 2008
Try to embrace the contradictions that are within yourself--the contradictions that are within all humans--rather than having them fight. As much as we'd like to "take a side" or see the world in black-n-white, right and wrong, the world doesn't operate that way. "Huge guilt" isn't going to help you at all, isn't going to help your family, yourself...
If you can find out and experiment with what's right and wrong for you, yourself, specifically, then good on you. It isn't often found precisely where you're looking, so don't lock yourself into one way, one path, one strategy. Look for a balance, tinker with the thoughts and actions, track those changes and see how they affect your relationship with the world and beyond, but mostly strive for happiness. Cause we all deserve it, and it's teh bests.
This was less of an answer and more of a pat on the back: good luck!
Now, about that porn you were referring to, would you care to donate it to the n_o_d action organization for leaving porn in the forests for future generations?
posted by not_on_display at 9:48 AM on May 20, 2008
hadjiboy--is there only one kind of imam? surely there are imams that minister to and support muslims who desire to integrate into western society.
bravery is not the absence of fear: it is action in the face of fear. likewise, faith is not the absence of doubt: it is belief in the face of doubt.
the strength of your faith is not inherently linked to your practice of it. your qualms about your practice should not be mistaken for qualms about your faith itself. there are surely other devout muslims who face the same questions you face, and imams or other religious leaders who can help you.
posted by thinkingwoman at 10:51 AM on May 20, 2008
bravery is not the absence of fear: it is action in the face of fear. likewise, faith is not the absence of doubt: it is belief in the face of doubt.
the strength of your faith is not inherently linked to your practice of it. your qualms about your practice should not be mistaken for qualms about your faith itself. there are surely other devout muslims who face the same questions you face, and imams or other religious leaders who can help you.
posted by thinkingwoman at 10:51 AM on May 20, 2008
This is mostly based on my high-school-religion-class knowledge of Islam, but isn't there a strong belief in submission to God (Allah) and that whatever happens must be God's will (e.g. the common phrase inshallah)? Therefore isn't the very questioning of your identity something that God has preordained? I would think this belief would help you to relax, because God's got it all worked out somehow, and whatever happens is what's supposed to happen. Alternatively, does Islam have prayers that ask God what he wants you to do? I'm sure that interpreting the response can be kind of tricky, but knowing that you've at least asked may also be helpful.
posted by desjardins at 11:47 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by desjardins at 11:47 AM on May 20, 2008
Alternatively, does Islam have prayers that ask God what he wants you to do?
The Prayer of Istikhara
posted by BinGregory at 7:30 PM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Prayer of Istikhara
"O Allah, I ask You to show me what is best, through Your knowledge, and I ask You to empower me, through Your power, and I beg You to grant me Your tremendous favor, for You have power, while I am without power, and You have knowledge, while I am without knowledge, and You are the One who knows all things invisible.roman transliteration and lengthy explanation through the link
O Allah, if You know that this undertaking is in the best interests of my religion, my life in this world, and my life in the Hereafter, and can yield successful results in both the short term and the long term, then make it possible for me and make it easy for me, and then bless me in it.
If not, then turn it away from me, and make it easy for me to do well, wherever I may happen to be, and make me content with Your verdict, O Most Merciful of the merciful.'"
posted by BinGregory at 7:30 PM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]
Salam Hadjiboy. I am a Muslim who went/goes through the same struggles/questions as you. My advice that I've learned in the journey so far:
- BinGregory is spot-on with the devotion/meditation to God being worth soooo much more than all these things like wearing the scarf, keeping the beard, etc. Not to say those don't have their place, but those are such little things compared to the overarching goal of Islam -- which is the oneness of God, recognizing it, and using the fruits of your relationship with God to better yourself, your family and the world around you.
- But Caddis is also on point when she mentions rituals. Some non-Arab Muslims tend to place more emphasis on the rituals than actually sitting down and spending time extracting meaning from them (like, read my prayers 5x? check. read this verse of the Qur'an? check. did i understand any of it? no, but at least I did it.) I was taught to read Arabic, in order to read the Qur'an. But I finally realized all I do is recite verses and I have NO IDEA what they mean! I would recommend (if you don't understand the Arabic) of buying an all English Qur'an. I did this, and I read it all the time. It doesn't mean that I don't take time to read the Arabic, but sometimes I just want to read the Qur'an continually and actually understand what's going on.
- Same with prayer. I do struggle with reading 5x a day. And internally I wish I made them all. But that doesn't mean that I don't think about God all the time. When I am walking, lying down, just sitting by myself; I think about Him, talk to Him out loud, get angry at Him, write in my journal to Him, etc. These are acts of devotion too; and they aren't repetitive and I actually feel like they strengthen my connection to God over the regular kinds of prayers. This is not to say at all that you shouldn't pray 5 times a day -- you should and I should, it's a pillar of Islam. But it's not the easiest thing in the world, and I have to believe that the God I want to believe in is not small enough to be angered by my struggle. I mean think of all the prophets - from Jesus, to Jonah, to Adam, to Moses - who questioned God.
- Take things slow. If you recall, God didn't outlaw alcohol for the Muslims immediately when the Prophet Muhammaed pbuh was receiving revelation. It took many many years before alcohol was outlawed, because God knew that if you make humongous, sweeping changes, it's too hard to adjust. Take your time.
- Always remember the Hadith; that God loves the sinner who repents much more than the man who's perfect. Don't overtax yourself with trying to perfect Islam. Even the people who you think may be perfect have their flaws that they struggle with.
- Don't judge a book by its cover. My personal experience has been that some of the meanest people I have interacted with have been Muslims who wore scarves or kept a long beard. I used to make the mistake of thinking these people were better than me because I wasn't dressing so-called Islamically, till I realized that who the heck cares how you dress if you can't treat fellow Muslims on different paths with decency and respect?
Sorry this is a book. But I wish you well on your journey.
posted by paperlanterns at 11:32 PM on May 20, 2008
- BinGregory is spot-on with the devotion/meditation to God being worth soooo much more than all these things like wearing the scarf, keeping the beard, etc. Not to say those don't have their place, but those are such little things compared to the overarching goal of Islam -- which is the oneness of God, recognizing it, and using the fruits of your relationship with God to better yourself, your family and the world around you.
- But Caddis is also on point when she mentions rituals. Some non-Arab Muslims tend to place more emphasis on the rituals than actually sitting down and spending time extracting meaning from them (like, read my prayers 5x? check. read this verse of the Qur'an? check. did i understand any of it? no, but at least I did it.) I was taught to read Arabic, in order to read the Qur'an. But I finally realized all I do is recite verses and I have NO IDEA what they mean! I would recommend (if you don't understand the Arabic) of buying an all English Qur'an. I did this, and I read it all the time. It doesn't mean that I don't take time to read the Arabic, but sometimes I just want to read the Qur'an continually and actually understand what's going on.
- Same with prayer. I do struggle with reading 5x a day. And internally I wish I made them all. But that doesn't mean that I don't think about God all the time. When I am walking, lying down, just sitting by myself; I think about Him, talk to Him out loud, get angry at Him, write in my journal to Him, etc. These are acts of devotion too; and they aren't repetitive and I actually feel like they strengthen my connection to God over the regular kinds of prayers. This is not to say at all that you shouldn't pray 5 times a day -- you should and I should, it's a pillar of Islam. But it's not the easiest thing in the world, and I have to believe that the God I want to believe in is not small enough to be angered by my struggle. I mean think of all the prophets - from Jesus, to Jonah, to Adam, to Moses - who questioned God.
- Take things slow. If you recall, God didn't outlaw alcohol for the Muslims immediately when the Prophet Muhammaed pbuh was receiving revelation. It took many many years before alcohol was outlawed, because God knew that if you make humongous, sweeping changes, it's too hard to adjust. Take your time.
- Always remember the Hadith; that God loves the sinner who repents much more than the man who's perfect. Don't overtax yourself with trying to perfect Islam. Even the people who you think may be perfect have their flaws that they struggle with.
- Don't judge a book by its cover. My personal experience has been that some of the meanest people I have interacted with have been Muslims who wore scarves or kept a long beard. I used to make the mistake of thinking these people were better than me because I wasn't dressing so-called Islamically, till I realized that who the heck cares how you dress if you can't treat fellow Muslims on different paths with decency and respect?
Sorry this is a book. But I wish you well on your journey.
posted by paperlanterns at 11:32 PM on May 20, 2008
Response by poster: Hi lanterns, Salaam!
I don't like those kinds of people either (the fake muslims) with their long beards and their covered heads and bodies--Islamic from the outside, but just the opposite from the inside.
I guess what I was referring to in my case was to have the courage to express my faith externally as well as internally. Why shouldn't I be comfortable wearing an Islamic dress just because some people might think wrongly of me if I do... that's what I used to feel--what if he thinks I'm a fanatic, or what if they don't like me because I'm a muslim? The questions were always on my mind, but now--I'm not at all bothered, which is why I think this is such a big step for me.
I'm not talking about jumping into something that I can't handle; I've been wearing my Islamic dress regularly at home and to the mosque, and after I join the office and hopefully make a place for myself there that people know who I am and not be threatened of me--I plan to start wearing the Kurta Pyjama to work from this Ramadan hopefully.
The beard though--I'm going to start on that asap, Insha Allah!
posted by hadjiboy at 9:48 AM on May 21, 2008
I don't like those kinds of people either (the fake muslims) with their long beards and their covered heads and bodies--Islamic from the outside, but just the opposite from the inside.
I guess what I was referring to in my case was to have the courage to express my faith externally as well as internally. Why shouldn't I be comfortable wearing an Islamic dress just because some people might think wrongly of me if I do... that's what I used to feel--what if he thinks I'm a fanatic, or what if they don't like me because I'm a muslim? The questions were always on my mind, but now--I'm not at all bothered, which is why I think this is such a big step for me.
I'm not talking about jumping into something that I can't handle; I've been wearing my Islamic dress regularly at home and to the mosque, and after I join the office and hopefully make a place for myself there that people know who I am and not be threatened of me--I plan to start wearing the Kurta Pyjama to work from this Ramadan hopefully.
The beard though--I'm going to start on that asap, Insha Allah!
posted by hadjiboy at 9:48 AM on May 21, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks to everyone who took the time out to reply to me; it has been very illuminating:)
posted by hadjiboy at 9:49 AM on May 21, 2008
posted by hadjiboy at 9:49 AM on May 21, 2008
I wish I had seen this post earlier.
Anyways, here's a link to a thread I posted on MeCha which sort of relates to your question.
I too am Muslim, and have been going through a crisis of faith for many years. Please MeMail me if you want to chat with someone about this issue.
posted by reenum at 6:37 PM on May 25, 2008
Anyways, here's a link to a thread I posted on MeCha which sort of relates to your question.
I too am Muslim, and have been going through a crisis of faith for many years. Please MeMail me if you want to chat with someone about this issue.
posted by reenum at 6:37 PM on May 25, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Personally, I find myself lacking strong conviction in most areas of my life. I feel it lends perspective that would otherwise be lost. That and I think that everybody has doubts.
Of course, only you can decide the right path for yourself. Even in the best of circumstances, there will be doubt. Leave yourself open to it and you will be able to formulate better arguments in favor of your faith. You will know why it is that you pursue it. Suppressing your doubt only leaves you ignorant of why you feel the way you do. You can be committed without being blind.
Now, if you're really asking if you should stop drinking to excess and partying all night, it may well be that you should, faith or no. ;)
posted by wierdo at 2:18 AM on May 20, 2008