Comments on: Where does the lady sit if the wall has a nice view?

Question: Where does the lady sit if the wall has a nice view?

NucleophilicAttack — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:15:43 -0800

Seating at a restaurant. I understand that in one-on-one situations, etiquette suggests that lady is offered the seat with the view into the room, and the gentleman takes the seat facing the wall. This and other sites seem to agree. But what if the "wall" is floor-to-ceiling glass with nice views of the outside? Now, I understand that there are no hard-and-fast rules, but in theory does the lady still sit facing into the dining room? Or should she be offered a seat facing the glass so she can enjoy the view?

One consideration that has been brought up, is that if the glass admits a great deal of light, the person sitting with their backs to the glass is silhouetted.

By: twistofrhyme

twistofrhyme — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:25:15 -0800

i thought the man-faces-wall rule was developed by men who realized that if they faced the room, their hunter/lecher eyes would dart all over the place, attracted by movement in the rest of the room, or possibly by other women-- both of which might annoy the woman he's dining with.

i guess if you decide to let gender/chivalry rules apply at all, the polite & traditional thing would be to stand back & give the lady first pick.

By: ikkyu2

ikkyu2 — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:25:17 -0800

I believe it is not beyond the bounds of propriety in ambiguous situations to ask the lady what she would prefer. I often do that.

By: found missing

found missing — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:25:24 -0800

In your scenario, is the lady unable for some reason to express her preference?

By: stenoboy

stenoboy — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:25:32 -0800

Even though I'm all for equality of the sexes, I still give the female diners the best seats. Hell, women have enough to contend with in this male-dominated society, so letting them have the best seat is the least one could do.

I think just hover a little way back from the table until your female companion/s have chosen her/their seats and then take what's left.

By: bcwinters

bcwinters — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:25:59 -0800

Ask her.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:40:54 -0800

This isn't sexist. I'd offer the better seat to anyone I was with. Romantic interest, friend, family member, business associate... it's just manners.

Looking out the glass window is likely the better seat, especially if the option is having people walking past looking at your back.

By: wryly

wryly — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:46:04 -0800

Small quibble: it not just ladies -- the host offers the "better" seat to his/her guest; the younger diner offers it to the elder, and so on. When I (female) take a guest to a restaurant that has a view, I always politely direct them to the more desirable chair. I don't ask, because they usually demur and say, "oh no, you enjoy the view." If they feel strongly about it, they'll speak up; I have an aunt who absolutely refuses to sit anyplace where strong light might highlight signs of her age; she wants her back to the window every time. Older gentlemen usually won't accept the better chair unless I emphasize that I'm quite familiar with the view.

I've always wondered if part of the reason for the "lady seat rule" was to let her have her date's undivided attention -- if he faces the wall, he can't be distracted by what's going on elsewhere. Anyone facing the room has plenty of things to look at -- in that position, I always have to remind not to gaze around the place too much.

By: oddman

oddman — Sun, 11 May 2008 13:03:23 -0800

A point of information:

I always offer my wife the seat that is against the wall, but not because of the view. The seat facing the wall will back up to the aisle, so it is more likely to get bumped into. Hence, I take that seat because I would rather have someone spill something on me than on my wife.

By: fructose

fructose — Sun, 11 May 2008 13:35:20 -0800

What my dude and I do is based on practicality. I am a small person, so if one seat backs up to someone else's, or a busy area, I take it, because I don't stick out as much as he does and am less likely to get bumped or bump someone else.
Granted, I'm not really hip to the antiquated societal rules.

By: NucleophilicAttack

NucleophilicAttack — Sun, 11 May 2008 13:49:49 -0800

I completely understand the straightforwardness of "letting her choose." Now, that said, I'm really asking about slightly more formal situations. If this is a lady friend that one has known for a suitably long time, one would indeed assume that the woman can, and will, pipe up to make her preferences known.

Perhaps the general rule should be "the lady gets the nicer view, whether it be of the dining room or the view outside?"

By: Polychrome

Polychrome — Sun, 11 May 2008 14:34:11 -0800

Agreeing with the "let your guest voice her/his opinion" crowd, but I always thought that the reason for giving the lady the seat facing the room is so that she could be shown off/admired. (I don't agree with that reasoning, but most etiquette seems to be antiquated).

By: salvia

salvia — Sun, 11 May 2008 14:59:05 -0800

Do you have to offer it? Could you hang back and let her choose? This is perhaps a bit harder if you are pulling the chair out for her, but you could still see where she is inclined to go.

By: nadawi

nadawi — Sun, 11 May 2008 15:13:37 -0800

this has never once occurred to me. anyone have sites on etiquette pages?

By: aeschenkarnos

aeschenkarnos — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:35:55 -0800

In this case, depending on how bright it is outside, whoever faces the outside may have more narrowed pupils (usually subconsciously interpreted as disinterest/hostility) and may not be able to see the other person as well due to the glare. I'd suggest either rotate the table so each of you sit side-on to the window, if there's room to do so and the etiquette of the restaurant supports it; or ask for another table.

By: otherwordlyglow

otherwordlyglow — Sun, 11 May 2008 17:43:55 -0800

I thought that the facing-toward=the-room seat was offered to the lady so that she could "see and be seen" - in other words it was about the fact that other diners could gaze upon her lovliness.