Should I stay or should I go?

May 6, 2008 4:32 PM

Is it me or is it Phoenix? Or, when is it time to move vs. when is it time to try to bloom where you're planted?

I'll try my best to make this brief.

I have been in the Phoenix area for about a year and a half and have a love/hate relationship with the place. I love the gorgeous winters and the relatively low cost of living. I hate that I have not made any real friends here and have had a really hard time dating and find that there's not much to do here outside of eating, drinking, hiking and biking (the former are fine in moderation, the latter, not really my thing.)

I'm a city girl but haven't actually lived in a city since '98 when I left my copy editing job in Boston to go work as a reporter in South Florida.

Here's where it gets kind of tricky: In hindsight, Boston was wonderful. I had a great job at a great paper and made good money for my age and circumstances. I travelled a lot and was generally in a good situation. But I was depressed a lot.

So I got a job in Florida and the first three years there were good. Journalists are generally a really social bunch and I again had a good crew of friends, did interesting work, travelled a bit. But I was depressed a lot.

Then I went to law school and got some help for the depression but hated law school and Miami as a city. Leaving journalism after 10 years was tough, very tough (and no, I can't go back to newspapers in this market) And the drugs stopped working and I had a hard time finding a new one to work. I kept seeing my therapist for awhile but after I left school, I was no longer able to see her or find another suitable replacement. I was unhappy in Miami though I did have far more connections there than I do here in Phoenix.

Now, there's Phoenix, which started out OK ... My parents are here (which goes more into the "con" list than the "pro" list and I did move here to be closer to them after fifteen years of living in different states) but now it's just weekends of doing everything alone. I enjoy my own company but this is getting to be ridiculous.

Now, on the verge of my 38th birthday, I'm wondering if I'll ever be content where I live or with my life. I've tried very, very hard to be. I found a new therapist (who I've had issues with. She's cancelled two appointments at the last minute and once left town on the day of a scheduled appointment but didn't tell me), I stopped working for my parents and found an OK job, I joined some meetups, I get the requisite amount of sunshine, exercise .... But everything is still just OK. Still no friends, still no dating prospects ... and I'm wondering if maybe a conservative, sprawling suburb is not for me and I need to set my sights on a larger city (I grew up in Brooklyn before moving to the midwest as a teen and I don't think I ever got over that shock.)

Or maybe I am just a perpetual malcontent? My friends affectionately call me "the baby curmudgeon." Now I fear that if I try to pick up and leave again, I'll just look like a flake who has no idea how to find some rootedness and happiness (I guess there's some truth to the latter part.)

So I guess my question is, is it worth it to try a larger city where my social prospects might be greater (I'm leaning toward L.A. or Chicago) or do I try to bloom here in Phoenix? And if I am to bloom, how? Hmmm...I guess that wasn't so brief.

posted by notjustfoxybrown to human relations (12 comments total)

I don't know anything about Phoenix per se (or Miami or Boston for that matter), but I do know that location matters. I think it has a very profound effect on our psyche. I too am a city girl, currently trapped in the suburbs, and although I was still depressed in the city, it felt different. Not nearly as isolating.

What exactly did you like about Boston? Not your circumstances while living there, but what the city did for you. Can you find any of those same things in Phoenix? For example, maybe Boston has a lot of independent bookstores you liked to browse. Maybe someone can suggest similar stores in Phoenix. Etc.

Also, can you get your fix by travelling occasionally to places you love? My mother has met some fantastic people in travel groups, so it would kill two birds with one stone.
posted by desjardins at 4:47 PM on May 6

I lived in Phoenix for about 16+ years. I left back in '99 and I've lived in/around Los Angeles for the past 8 years.

Most of my lifelong friends, the ones I grew up and/or went to high school with, still live in Phoenix. None of them are any closer to moving away from there, but also none of them have done much of anything with their time in the 8 years since.

I think Phoenix has a serious soul-sucking issue to it. It's like living in a real life Sim City, as you watch entire city blocks appear almost right before your eyes. What was a dead-end road leading to an empty desert one day could, only a year later, be some booming outdoor mall. Every time I visit the place, I feel like it's a new city. It almost seems like the place is meant to divert your attention from more important things by putting up new landmarks every week. It's an expansive collection of strip malls and fast food joints. Mix that with, as you've mentioned, the relatively low cost of living out there makes people feel like they're richer than they are, so you get a lot of "new money" attitude. Several people I knew during the dotcom boom have since moved to Phoenix so they could feel rich without running out of money. Those were their words, in fact.

True, much of this can be said (and has been) about LA, and a million other places (South Florida comes to mind as well) but I'm intimately familiar with Phoenix. And it just feels so... empty. Soulless.

I'm with desjardins - location matters a LOT. I'm not sure where you'd be happier, but if you have the freedom and desire to get up and go, you should. You'll regret not moving if you stay in a place you don't feel happy - and if you move and it sucks, too, at least you'll have more dimensions to the big picture.

Good luck.
posted by revmitcz at 5:21 PM on May 6

I really appreciate both these answers, especially revmitcz since you know of what I speak. To answer your questions, desjardins, I miss the "ghosts" of a city, the sense that the city contains the stories of millions of people who came to start over, to grow families. It's like you said, even if you're alone, you don't necessarily feel lonely. More than that, I'm a huge audiophile and I miss small venues with awesome music scenes and I do miss bookstores and good theater. There is some of that here in Phoenix, but not much.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 5:37 PM on May 6

I grew up and went to school in the Phoenix area. I moved away for a couple years and then had a strong desire to move back. I was sick of my job in NYC and missed my old college and high school friends and my family. The first couple months were great. But it got old for me quick.

There are lots of areas and things in Phoenix that I love. I think the food is underrated and I even enjoy the summer weather to an extent. I used to be a diehard defender of Phoenix, but it was the endless driving that finally got to me. I just started to loath driving at least 5 miles for just about ANYTHING. Nothing was in walking distance.

But what really convinced me to move again was the job market--Phoenix is not a "headquarters" city like NYC, San Francisco/Bay Area, LA, Chicago, DC and even places like Atlanta and Seattle. It's a relatively cheap city where companies can install a call center or a semi fab. And it's also a great resort town for golfers and conference-goers. But I don't think it's the place to be if you're ambitious. The consequence of this is that the great bulk of really interesting cultural stuff follows the ambitious folks to the major cities like NYC and SF. Some people are great about seeking that stuff out on their own--they make friends easily and sniff out or even create their own scene. But that's not me. I need to have that stuff, literally, waiting for me outside my door.

However, I don't think moving to a bigger, better city is any sort of panacea. I've had an equal amount of trouble finding friends outside of work in NYC, the SF Bay Area and now here in DC. It's just hard a thing to do. But, for me at least, being in a big city helps in other ways.
posted by mullacc at 6:07 PM on May 6 [1 favorite]

I'm in the valley... let's be honest, it ain't a cool town. There's shit going on, but really, unless you're into playing outside, I dunno what the heck people do around here. (Luckily, they do something, since they don't seem to be clogging up the trails. From my observations thus far, they seem to be eating at chain restaurants and watching television.)

The appeal is, yeah... easy living. A relative slacker like myself can still afford the American dream 'round these parts...

It took me awhile to get out and meet new friends here... and really, it's more through sports and dating than anything else that I've been able to expand my social network. Meetups were... well, they ran the range. Lots of people who were older than me, it seemed like.

Anyway... I don't know what the heck is going on in the phx, but if ya wanna chat with someone else locally, hit me up via mefi mail.
posted by ph00dz at 6:07 PM on May 6

If you're finding it hard to meet people in Phoenix, I'm afraid you would find much of the same in L.A. To me, it's always been one big collection of suburbs rather than a "city" in the traditional sense. Chicago? Great city. For the record, I love L.A. for a lot of different reasons, but its 'urban life' isn't one of them.
posted by Gerard Sorme at 10:29 PM on May 6

It's impossible to tell whether this question is about Phoenix or whether it's really about you. Two of your tags are 'depression' and 'premidlifecrisis', you've struggled with depression for a long time but aren't getting adequate therapy, you are unable to return to a career that apparently brought you much happiness, and your friends have a nickname for you that incorporates the word 'curmudgeon'. I wonder if any of those things would be different in LA, Rome, Dubai, etc. Plus it's really hard to tell whether you were even happy in the other places you've lived, once your career changed.

Phoenix is definitely a weird animal, though. It's the least "cityish" city I've ever been in, as the bulk of the population does live in very spread out areas that are segregated into their own little self contained mini towns. Most of these are horrendously cookie-cutter and completely indistinguishable, with downtown and Mesa and Scottsdale really being the only areas that have any distinct character. There is also a real openness to the people that I feel is a stark contrast to the LA vibe and absolutely alien compared to big east coast cities. Maybe one of those things is where your disconnect is.

It's my opinion that the best things to do in the region *are* related to outdoor activities, but I have a really hard time with the idea that there's not much else to do. It seems to me that across the city there are always tons of little music venues, theaters, bookstores, galleries, clubs, etc that are doing their thing. I can see mullacc's point, though; the canyons of Manhattan and Chicago have a much greater density, putting a lot of activities at your fingertips with only a short walk needed. You've got to drive, here, and LA would be similar. How systematic have you been in digging out places that might fit your needs?

It sounds like your depression are career are major factors, but maybe it really is just easier to do stuff and meet people in the bigger cities.
posted by TheManChild2000 at 10:43 PM on May 6

Having spent my first 25 years in Phoenix and my last 3 in Los Angeles, I have to strongly disagree with anyone who says LA would be more of the same. The similarities are only superficial. I love that I moved, and I'd never consider moving back. I'm almost never bored here, and I find it very easy to meet people, even being pretty introverted.

I'm not even recommending LA; I'm recommending against Phoenix.

That said, I've known quite a few people who found happiness in Phoenix and will be there for the rest of their lives. They generally fall into the following categories: those who bought the biggest houses they possibly could, put the biggest televisions into them, and live in their own private entertainment complexes; those who live as perpetual adolescents, some still living in the private entertainment complexes their parents built, and all getting as drunk or stoned as possible at all times; and those who join and dedicate their lives to megachurches, which (if you can tolerate this sort of thing) can actually provide a big social network and plenty of activities.

Get out of Phoenix if none of that sounds appealing to you, because there are few other options. A grid of strip malls and housing developments provides a lot of convenience, but little else.
posted by hutta at 11:29 PM on May 6

"So you're saying the best thing about Phoenix is leaving?" -- a friend of a friend at dinner the other night, when we were all discussing why the Phoenix contingent lived in Phoenix.

Just moved to Tempe last fall. I'm not exactly a big fan, but that may involve issues with my own situation moreso than the city itself. I have noticed that if I get out of the city once a month or more and go hiking or just drive somewhere else and have a look around, I stay saner.

We should have another meetup, so I can actually go, sometime soon.
posted by Alterscape at 1:16 AM on May 7

Another vote for "location does matter".

I'm a big city soul suck in small towns of West Michigan. After spending 8 years trying to make it work, I'm leaving this summer. After school, I spent a lot of my time with few friends, little to no professional network, and just strangers to join while indulging my hobbies. The thing is, the past 2 years I've met some really cool people, my career has taken off, and I play sports with friends rather than strangers. But despite these social improvements, I still can't stand my location. It's not me.

So I'm leaving. And I encourage you to do the same.
posted by whycurious at 9:48 AM on May 7

I can't help but think reading this that you might want to take care of the depression issues before you decide on the moving issues. I haven't been to Phoenix or most of the above cities, but if you're unhappy everywhere, regardless of job and city, and it sounds like you are, a move is only going to help so much. The one common denominator here is you, and if you're already unhappy, that will follow you to Insert Fabulous City Here, you know?

P.S. Your shrink sounds incredibly dubious, I think you might want to check out a better one. Or at least one who bothers to TELL YOU if she's not gonna be around.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:35 PM on May 7

Where I live matters a lot to me. This could explain why I've moved a lot, tried different things. But everywhere I've lived has had its good and bad points, and there is a kind of maneuvering through priorities that one must do to find their place.

For example, in Montreal there is less work, median income is lower, and taxes are higher than in Toronto. But I'd rather be less prosperous in Montreal than be more comfortable in Toronto. Because the other things that matter to me (a great apartment, a vibrant cultural life, an attractive landscape, an exciting music scene, a livable scale, a desire to live well) tip the scale for me.

I don't really believe you need to figure out your head before you relocate. I think a big change like moving can open up so many new opportunities and perspectives for you that it could provide relief from the way your life is beating you down, and make you feel more in control. Of course your problems go where you do, but don't underestimate the power of new scenery and the pride of being the captain of your own ship to make you look at life differently.
posted by loiseau at 9:44 PM on May 8