The Rules of Attraction

May 4, 2008 12:05 PM

Should I end things with a girl I've started dating who I like a lot, but whose body doesn't turn me on?

I'm a 23 year old male and she is a 21 year old female. I've been on about four dates with her which have all gone very well. I like her a lot and she seems to feel the same way. I'd been on dates with a few other girls of late and I didn't click with any of them the way I clicked with this girl.

I think she has a very pretty face and I enjoy making out with her. The problem is that I don't feel very attracted to her body. She isn't fat but she's on the soft or slightly pudgy side, and I suppose I'm into more of an athletic body type. I'm a very lean guy myself.

On our last date we ended up making out and touching naked in my bed and I just wasn't very turned on. So I went down on her which she seemed to enjoy and after that we just cuddled and made out some more and she left at the end of the night. We didn't really discuss it, but I asked her if she expected to have sex with me and she said she was hoping she could wait as she tends to have sex with men very quickly. So I guess that's why she seemed fine with it and there was no awkwardness. I, however, had hoped before the date that we were going to have sex, but then I didn't get an erection and I felt bad. I was buzzed but not drunk and I didn't feel particularly nervous at the time, although I had been a little worried that this is exactly what would happen.

I've only had sex with one person and I experienced very similar issues with her. We were in a years-long relationship in college, I cared for her very deeply, but had trouble being turned on by her physically. We stayed together and eventually had a decent sex life, but it was never adventurous or totally fulfilling for either of us. I know that I'm into women and I don't think there's anything wrong with me physically. I have some kinks that I think are unusual but I feel like I can get turned on without them and that I shouldn't bring them up at the start of a relationship.

So should I break it off now, or give it another try? What should I say to her? I feel like this is embarrassing for me and potentially moreso for her and it makes me feel awful. Is it weird that I seemingly can't get aroused by a woman unless she's just right physically? Should I not let things get to this point with a woman in the future if I feel like this might happen? Am I a shallow bastard?

Throwaway e-mail address if you need it: luisborges.jorge AT gmail

posted by anonymous to human relations (64 comments total)

About one year ago, I was in the same situation. If I could do it over again, I would not have chosen to stay. The one thing keeping me from fully committing to my relationship is a lack of true attraction to her body. It sucks for both of us.

Just end it. It will save you a lot of emotional turmoil.
posted by roomwithaview at 12:12 PM on May 4

I think sexual attraction is a big part of a relationship. If you aren't attracted to her, just end it. Better to do it now before she becomes more invested in this relationship.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:20 PM on May 4

Sadly, yes, you should end it. You shouldn't tell her why. Sooner is better than later.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:25 PM on May 4 [5 favorites]

You don't sound like a shallow bastard, you sound like a pretty decent person, given that you obviously care about her and don't want to hurt her. I agree with the other posters, it's probably better to get on a friendship basis with her quickly and not lead her on.

It does sound shallow, but sexual attraction is a big part of a relationship, that's just the way it is. I wouldn't necessarily tell her your reasons, if you can possibly help it, as that's sure to hurt her no matter how you put it. Of course the old 'it isn't you, it's me' sounds as lame as ever...

The risk is, especially given your age, that you'll get into a serious relationship with her, and then you'll meet that person who really 'turns your crank'. And that will cause a lot more pain for everyone involved.
posted by crazylegs at 12:26 PM on May 4

Yes, you are shallow.

Yes, you should break it off, but don't mention her body, it's YOUR problem, don't make it hers. She doesn't need to develop a body-image complex, just because you have an idea of how women are supposed to look.
posted by nikksioux at 12:26 PM on May 4 [11 favorites]

I would wait. Uh, stop masturbating if you are, and if you're currently a consumer of pornography, lay off. Then try again when you're stone cold sober. If you're still not into it, well, you aren't, and as un-PC as it may be, it's pretty difficult to dictate what "ought to" turn you on, although, I suppose, with enough psychoactive chemicals, as well as positive and negative reinforcement, we could probably shape your interests a bit. Let me know when Diana Moon Glampers assigns us sexual partners of a random age, gender, race, and shape. Sign this contract here and step into my large, steel frame chair.

Anecdotal non-data point: I was in a relationship where I kept at it despite a lack of significant turnon; it never got any easier and probably wasn't fair to her, as well. Sex became a chore, and then an unpleasant chore. While it was not a weight issue (rather a sense of it feeling grimy and altogether weird), I caught myself referring to the act as "slopping the hogs" and knew it was time to end it.
posted by adipocere at 12:27 PM on May 4

Yes. Break it off now. It doesn't have to be messy or sudden. You can try to be friends or stay in touch. You could just drift away. It sounds like she has had prior relationships, so she will probably take it in good stride. Say, "Look, I like you as a friend, but I can't be romantic with you."

You're young. It sounds like you're figuring out what you like in a person. Sexual attraction is a very reasonable characteristic to look for in a significant other and sex itself is very important to a happy and health relationship. You deserve to date someone who you're satisfied with on many levels. She deserves to date someone who is going to be attracted to her body type. Obviously looks aren't everything and as you get older you may notice that you don't care so much about certain body types, but right now if that is what you want there is no sense in entering into a protracted and ultimately doom relationship where you're not happy.
posted by wfrgms at 12:27 PM on May 4

Move on. She's not your type. Not an earth-shattering revelation, not anything that makes you a bad person.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 12:27 PM on May 4 [2 favorites]

If you don't think you can ever be attracted to her, then you kinda owe it to her, IMO, to break things off. You deserve someone you're attracted to, and she deserves someone who is attracted to her.
posted by MadamM at 12:27 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]

1. You already know the answer to this question.
2. You're asking for it by posting it here.
3. The rule of attraction is.....actually being attracted to the person.
4. You have many lonely years ahead if you can't stand women "on the soft side" aka most women over the age of 25.
posted by meerkatty at 12:30 PM on May 4 [5 favorites]

No, you are not shallow. If you weren't trying to be open minded, or thinking about this in the first place, you would be.

Yes, you should end it.

Think of it this way, if you're worried about being selfish: She deserves to fall in love with someone that wants to sex her up crazy all the time. We all do.

You can't really police or fault people for what they are sexually attracted to. It's what turns you on, and that's just all there is to it.

Never, ever tell her why. It's your problem, not hers. She'll find someone who wants her bigtime without having to do pilates for months.
posted by pazazygeek at 12:37 PM on May 4

Am I shallow bastard?

Well... from the description of her, just being honest, I think so. I feel badly for the situation you're in, though, because I don't think you can help what you're attracted to, and I don't know what to tell you to help change that.

I do think it's important to be aroused enough by the personality of the person you're with, otherwise I'm not sure that you'll ever be able to have a lasting relationship; what would you do when you both get older? Women don't keep hard, athletic bodies forever. If you found one that managed to keep that kind of body even for twenty years, would you just break it off with her once she was slightly pudgy? You could find a girl and bank on her keeping her body forever just because she seems very athletic, but it would be a poor gamble. She won't be able to control what her hormones do once she's older, and you would have to hope she gets lucky there in addition to keeping up her active lifestyle.

If you never want a lasting relationship it's less of a problem. Since you've been in a years-long relationship, though, and put aside the attraction thing for as long as you did, I have the impression that you do want a long relationship, at least eventually. Hopefully someone else will have good advice on how to make yourself attracted to someone who doesn't have the precise body type you favor. I do feel like it's something you need to get over, somehow, for your own sake. If you didn't seem so extremely picky it would be less of a problem as well; everyone has a range of body types that they find attractive, but yours seems to be particularly narrow if "slightly pudgy" means no erection.

Either way, if you do decide to break up with her, good god, don't tell her it's because her body isn't attractive enough to give you an erection. Women feel displeased enough about their bodies without someone telling them things like that, and it's not useful information she can carry into the next relationship; she can easily find a guy that's not as shallow as you, and it's probably not been an issue with most guys she's been with. I mean no offense by that, it's just the truth. Don't make her feel bad because, physically, you're harder to please than most people.

To be honest, I'm kind of baffled you even think such a thing might be a reasonable option. If you need to break it off with her, just keep it vague and say you feel like you weren't clicking. If you tell her the real reason, she will think you're an asshole, and for good reason in my opinion. It's one thing to feel that way to begin with, but it's another thing to feel like you have to let her know, too; it gives the impression that it's her fault somehow, and that she should take that information and do something with it, instead of it being your hang-ups. When I've had quirks that bothered me like that in the past, that I knew probably didn't bother other people, I saw that there wasn't any sense in bringing it up. Honesty is often the best policy, but it really isn't when it's only going to hurt her feelings and when it's your problem and not hers.
posted by Nattie at 12:37 PM on May 4 [4 favorites]

You have many lonely years ahead if you can't stand women "on the soft side" aka most women over the age of 25.

Nonsense. There are many different body types, and plenty of women over the age of 25 have lean or athletic builds.
posted by scody at 12:39 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]

End it. It's OK to have a body type you're attracted to. There's plenty of skinny girls out there who will love you, and on the flip side, there's plenty of guys out there who love the body type of the girl you're presently with. You both deserve better.
posted by Happydaz at 1:00 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]

I agree that you should move on. If you do this correctly, you will gain a good friend, rather than loose a potential lover. The world is filled with people that we love dearly, but would rather not have sex with. Someday, you will be on the receiving end of this, and how you deal with it will largely be determined by how you deal with this situation. Do it soon - don't wait to have sex with her first. You don't have a responsibility to give it a try, despite the cries of "shallow!" You already know what you want - so don't wait to get in any deeper before pulling out (pun possibly intended).
posted by The Light Fantastic at 1:00 PM on May 4 [2 favorites]

People have different amounts of libido and are turned on by different things. That doesn't make them shallow. No one can tell you what you should be attracted to and how attracted you should be.
posted by PatoPata at 1:02 PM on May 4

If it was this way with the one other person you've had sex with, I wonder if it'd make sense to try dating around a bit, without getting too committed, until you find someone that really does it for you.
posted by salvia at 1:17 PM on May 4

Do yourself and her a favor and end it. Don't tell her (the truth about) why. She deserves to be with someone who's really into her just as much as you deserve to be with someone you're really into.
posted by mewithoutyou at 1:33 PM on May 4

End it. Now.

Look, you're not shallow. Your dick wants what your dick wants, to bastardize the words of Woody Allen. And if you're only into more "athletic" girls, then that's your business. My only concern is that your "pudgy" threshold could be excessively low. I'm not even remotely suggesting that you should be jumping into bed with BBWs, but if you find find all women with (literally) several extra pounds unattractive, that could make your love life very complicated.

I'm also inclined to think that some of this has to do with the fact that you've only had sex with one person during what you've implied was your only serious relationship. It might not be you, but I know a good number of guys in your situation who insist on dating someone exactly like their first.
posted by thisjax at 1:53 PM on May 4 [2 favorites]

I don't think you are shallow; I appreciate your honesty. You can't fake what isn't there, at least not for long, and why should you? I think you made a mistake in taking things to the physical level you did, knowing your feelings, which complicates things, though.

So...yes, you need to end it now, because otherwise you are sending her completely the wrong messages, and that's not fair to her.
posted by misha at 1:59 PM on May 4

Yeah, she deserves better than "you have a pretty face" and if you don't tell her why you're not able to date her she will probably spend a lot of time and energy worrying about all the other things that it could have been.

Tell her exactly why. She deserves to hear it, so she can get over you that much faster. Besides - this is your feeling, you should own it. If you're going to reject women based on their body type they should hear it straight from the horses mouth. If she's not a size zero she's more than likely already got body issues, and she needs to better sort out the guys who are actually into her from those who think she's got "a good personality" or "nice hair" or whatever.
posted by SassHat at 2:12 PM on May 4

The world is filled with people that we love dearly, but would rather not have sex with. Someday, you will be on the receiving end of this, and how you deal with it will largely be determined by how you deal with this situation.

Exactly, I won't psychoanalyze (I don't think much people put the thought into that you are doing, if they aren't physically attracted to someone they stop dating them this early on). But the crutch of the matter is that you're going to dump her and this is the real question here. So I'll convey a story I was told by a male friend who was on the opposite end of what you describe:

Mr. K met a girl at a party, they hit it off and went on a date. The date went well, they got a little drunk and slept together. Girl wakes up and sees Mr. K asleep, half-naked, and in full morning light. Mr. K already had a feeling she wasn't into him that physically. Mr. K, knowing this, still makes her breakfast and politely drives her home. What happened? She told him he was a real great guy, etc., etc. No they're not friends. No they didn't get together. But she didn't treat him like he was some sort of slob and he didn't treat her like a slut. Now they run into each other and can have a nice conversation. This is why I respect Mr. K, and also the mysterious girl. Be nice to her, let her know she's a great person and don't treat her like she suddenly contracted the plague. Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean you can't be decent about it. I know plenty of people of both sexes who react very badly in this situation. They are the ones who suddenly don't return phone calls. They rush out the door after the night's over and say, "this never happened." They stay in relationships in an effort "not to be shallow," and really waste everyones time. Don't be like them. You're not shallow? Here's the time to prove it.
posted by geoff. at 2:20 PM on May 4 [4 favorites]

No, you are not shallow, and anyone who would tell you that you are shallow has their own issues. You're not attracted to her; there doesn't have to be a reason why. It just is.

That you do have an identifiable reason doesn't actually matter; telling her what the reason is will hurt her unnecessarily. It won't help her to know. What use can she possibly make from that information? Consider: I broke up with a woman because I had the sudden realization that she looked kinda like Patton Oswalt, and so I never wanted to touch her again. This was not a sign of shallowness, and telling her that she's mannish and ugly would have been cruel.

You can, and should end it, quickly, and you should lie. What that lie should be, you'll have to figure out yourself.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 2:25 PM on May 4

Any relationship question in Ask Mefi tends to exhibit in its answers a fairly strong bias towards ending relationships. When the answers are unanimous in opinion like this, it's probably the right answer, but nonetheless, keep that in mind.
posted by WCityMike at 2:36 PM on May 4

Nonsense. There are many different body types, and plenty of women over the age of 25 have lean or athletic builds.

If someone gambles on the hope that a woman will keep that body for the rest of their hopefully long relationship, they are very likely to get burnt and hurt the woman they're with as well. Like I said in my comment, if twenty years down the line she slips up and gains a few pounds, be it from hormones she can't control or just a less active lifestyle, pregnancy, or even an illness or accident she couldn't foresee, is he really going to end the relationship? If he can't get an erection because a woman has a few extra pounds -- which is what I'm inferring from "slightly pudgy" -- then yes, he's going to end up unhappy in the end. No one's even talking about being overweight or obese; if her body isn't "hard" he's not into it.

Worse, what if the woman gains a few pounds, just enough to be on the "soft" side, and doesn't really care about it herself? What's he going to tell his not-at-all-overweight wife? "Honey, I can't get an erection, you need to lose weight?" "Go do some pilates?" No woman should have to put up with that. It's that "a few pounds over hard is too many" attitude that gives women eating disorders and makes them hate their bodies. He can't help what he's attracted to, fine, but it's severely naive to try and say that would be unproblematic in a long-term relationship.

To think a relationship could go on long-term and the woman keep her "hard" body the entire time is an absolute fantasy, and it's not doing him any favors to let him tell himself "it could happen." He can't predict the future and the odds are very much not in his favor, and he could search his whole life and never find that. Furthermore, he'd have to invest years upon years into relationships, waiting until the point where she's too pudgy for him to like her anymore. It's all well and good to have short-term relationships with people based on appearance, but I think it's going to be a real blow to his own happiness when he realizes appearances are not sustainable over a lifelong relationship. If he can't become aroused with his wife years down the line, he's either going to have to leave her, or selfishly ask her to lose weight or force her to get plastic surgery or something else ridiculous.

If the range of what he was attracted to was wider, and included body types that aren't outside the range of reason for an older woman to eventually have, it'd be no big deal. The range of what he finds attractive is way more narrow than a woman can reasonably sustain, though. It's to his benefit if he can find some way to expand the range of what turns him on, or at try and be aroused by personality and avoid the problem altogether. I realize this is easier said than done -- if it were that simple, I'm sure he'd love to do so -- but I don't see a way around it. Whoever she ends up with, she's not going to look that way forever and both of them are going to end up hurt if he deludes himself into thinking otherwise. The sooner he comes to terms with that, the better. The longer someone tells himself something -- i.e. "I can have a meaningful, long-term relationship without my narrow range of attraction causing problems" -- the more they reinforce the idea.

I'm not saying he should keep dating this girl. To the contrary, he should probably break up with her, because I don't think it's fair to either of them. But after he does so, he needs to take time to examine what's most important to him, and hopefully consider any advice he can come across to find other things attractive... especially since the feelings he's having make him "feel awful." I don't think anything is solved if, after breaking up with this girl, he goes on to pursue an unattainable ideal woman whose body will never be anything but hard. If he wants to settle on shorter-term relationships it's alright, but if that won't make him happy then he does need to try and learn to be attracted to other things.

Yeah, someone can't help what they're attracted to, but it makes no sense to then say, "Therefore, what someone is attracted to can never cause them problems or hinder their happiness," or "Therefore, someone should never make an effort to expand the range of things they're attracted to." Plenty of people are attracted to body types and personalities that cause them much unhappiness.
posted by Nattie at 2:40 PM on May 4 [10 favorites]

This seems like the definition of shallow. You click with her on personality, but she doesn't look exactly the way you want her to look. But, that does not make you a bad person.

Break it off with her. Find someone that turns you on.

In the future, if you mesh with someone but don't find them physically appealing, take some more time before jumping in bed with them. Perhaps your attraction will grow as you get to know them better.
posted by paperzach at 2:44 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]

Are you sure it's just her build that's a turn-off? There must be something else that's causing an obvious chemistry mismatch. Just end it, because even if it does get better, it's going to remain a point of resentment. And for her sake, don't tell her it's because you're not attracted to her. "I'm not attracted to you" = "You're not attractive".
posted by sian at 2:46 PM on May 4

This seems like the definition of shallow. You click with her on personality, but she doesn't look exactly the way you want her to look. But, that does not make you a bad person.

This is exactly my thoughts about that. When I read the posts claiming it's "not shallow" I'm not really sure what people think is shallow, then. I get the impression people are avoiding calling it shallow because they think it means someone has to be a bad person, but I don't think it has to mean that at all.

Or maybe it's because the OP worded it in conjunction with "bastard," asking if he's a "shallow bastard." I would say he's not a bastard, but yeah, he's shallow. No point in beating around it.
posted by Nattie at 3:06 PM on May 4

I'm with the "get out" crowd on this.

For the future though . . . you may want to try some things that will expand the range of women you are attracted to, since it sounds pretty narrow based on what you said in this post. The best way of doing this seems to be finding images of women (for you, those with "less athletic" bodies) that are photographed in a way that is meant to show how beautiful they are in the photographer's eye. Paintings and art featuring women with that type of body, such as Renoir's, may also help.

It may not work for everyone, but I know this type of exposure to images changed my mind quite a bit about what I found attractive.
posted by lacedback at 3:07 PM on May 4

It takes a spark to light a fire. Getting involved in a relationship like you're describing is like sitting around what would be a campfire - but it's raining and it will never stop. No sparks, no fire, no flames, nothing. It just isn't there. Move on to where the sun shines. Only you know what you want - your preference does not have to be defended and you have no apologies to make. Find someone you can't wait to touch.
posted by Gerard Sorme at 3:19 PM on May 4

If you've sure that this girl doesn't turn you on, then yes, you must end it. Don't tell her she doesn't turn you on, but don't lie to her either. Say something along the lines of, "This just isn't working somehow," or "I just don't think we're right for each other." Don't offer to be friends with her unless you definitely want to be friends and are willing to keep calling her and to spend time hanging out with her.
posted by orange swan at 3:34 PM on May 4

People generally look really weird naked, if you think about it; all funny-looking nipples and stray body hairs and dimples. Even traditionally-attractive people in perfect shape look weird naked. Sometimes when I'm in the locker room, I catch myself looking around and wondering how anyone can have sex with anyone.

I wonder if maybe that's where you're getting stuck. There's something more to attraction than just liking someone's physique; it's a whole lot more than just looking at someone naked and BOII-OI-OINNG! And sometimes the exact same person's body will look hot in one context and goofy in another. If it weren't for things like personality, voice, sense of humor, openness, and things like acne cream and push-up bras, some of us would get laid a whole lot less.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to help you get over that, if that's your issue. In the meantime, let this girl go. Do not mention that you're not attracted to her, or that she's not your type (which often sounds like "you're not hot enough").
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:38 PM on May 4 [5 favorites]

I thought my current boyfriend was cute, but not necessarily super sexy. But he has a great heart, he's very intelligent, witty, and fun to be around. And he treats me very well. After a few more dates, the sex appeal grew. And grew. And it kept growing, even though he wasn't necessarily what I had in my head as my ideal body type for a partner (as unrealistic and societally scary as yours: a tall, cut, athletic body). You might be putting a block against a particular body type without considering the off chance that you might actually be (or could be) attracted to someone outside of your previous ideals. Sometimes our heads get ahead of our hearts and put up big ole barriers. Remember what many people have said here: it is not a given that someone to whom you are attracted will maintain that physique forever; maybe she will, maybe she won't. Even though it's early in this relationship of yours, you should generally be OK with her physical appearance now and in the future, even if she does gain more weight or lose more weight or grow a mole on her nose or a third arm.

I'm not saying hang on to this one. I'm saying let her go, and then reevaluate a bit. Clearly there has to be physical attraction, but if you're attracted to her face and not the rest, maybe you need to check your head (and I mean that in a very nice, non-threatening way) for future relationships or encounters. And see if you can't find heart and personality as the sexy parts of a person, and maybe that initial physical attraction, minimal as it may be, will grow. Just a thought for the future.
posted by cachondeo45 at 4:31 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]

In your question, you mentioned that you've only had one other relationship and there were similar problems in the bedroom. You "clicked" with your long term partner personality-wise, but not physically. You don't mention if you've ever had a sexual experience with a woman whose body does turn you on in bed. If you haven't, how can you be sure that it's this particular woman's body that isn't doing it for you, especially given that you've had a similar situation in the past.

Maybe you should just break it off with her cold turkey, especially if you think she'd only be interested in pursuing a long term relationship. Another option might be to tell her you really want to date around a bit. Don't close the door on future dates with her but make it clear that the relationship isn't going to be exclusive anytime soon. Then, date your heart out. Specifically, I'd try to find someone you like who is your physical ideal. Does it work better in the bedroom? If not, perhaps there are other issues at hand here.
posted by theantikitty at 4:35 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]

In my mind, the most telling part of your question was:

I've only had sex with one person and I experienced very similar issues with her. We were in a years-long relationship in college, I cared for her very deeply, but had trouble being turned on by her physically....I know that I'm into women and I don't think there's anything wrong with me physically. I have some kinks that I think are unusual but I feel like I can get turned on without them and that I shouldn't bring them up at the start of a relationship.

If I understand this right, both of your sexual relationships have had this same start, where you don't feel attracted. And you're sure you're into women, but you've got some kinks.

My impression is that you're at the very beginnings of exploring your sexuality, and you've got a long and (hopefully) adventurous road ahead of you. We don't know how you know you're into women, or what your kinks are, but if I were you, I would strongly consider finding a way to use this relationship (with someone you like and trust) to start to explore who you are and what works for you in a relationship (as opposed to in your fantasies).

Obviously, treat the young woman with respect and don't burden her with your problems, but it sounds like she's more experienced than you are and could possibly teach you a few things, if you could find it in yourself to explore what's going on, rather than just simplifying it all into a "end it or don't end it" kind of dichotomy.
posted by jasper411 at 4:41 PM on May 4

Tell her exactly why. She deserves to hear it, so she can get over you that much faster. Besides - this is your feeling, you should own it. If you're going to reject women based on their body type they should hear it straight from the horses mouth. If she's not a size zero she's more than likely already got body issues, and she needs to better sort out the guys who are actually into her from those who think she's got "a good personality" or "nice hair" or whatever.

This is the worst possible advice. If you are going to break up with her, absolutely do not tell her that it is because she is carrying a couple of extra pounds. The fact that she probably already has body issues is not a reason to pile on and tell her that society's message that she's not good enough is correct. Rather, it's a great reason to keep your mouth shut and tell a polite lie like "I'm not over my ex," or "I'm too busy with work to give you the attention you deserve," or some such. You should absolutely own your feelings--in your own mind. When you talk to this woman, whom you claim to like, you should be kind and not foist your issues onto her. Because even if you frame it as "I am a total weirdo for not liking your perfectly acceptable body," she will more than likely hear, "Your body is disgusting and unlovable and is preventing you from finding a relationship."
posted by decathecting at 5:23 PM on May 4 [14 favorites]

You mention your 'unusual' kinks almost as an afterthought. But kinks are important. Assuming for the moment that said (but tantalizingly undescribed) kinks are not related to body type -- consider this: if this girl were into these kinks right along with you, how would you feel then? Maybe it's the non-kinky sex that's failing to excite you?
posted by tomboko at 5:30 PM on May 4

Sexual chemistry is a funny thing. It's more than a physique. It's kissing, eyes meeting, hands touching, and all the wonderful sensations that occur between two bodies. It sounds like you're more focused on the person's body overall and whether it is aesthetically pleasing. Look around. Is there someone whose face you are drawn to? A smile? A laugh? The way they hold a coffee cup?

Oh, yeah, and please break it off with this girl, and for God's sake, don't say it's because she's "soft." You'll give her a complex.

I don't think you're a shallow bastard, but rather someone who's inexperienced and, perhaps, has watched too many movies starring underfed Hollywood actresses and believes that is what men should aspire to.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:33 PM on May 4

eh, i think the stakes are pretty low either way. if you really like her and want to try to learn to love her body, give a relationship a try. if not, i think you can end things now and both go on to lead lovely, happy, sexy lives with other people. i mean, you both have probably 50 years of sex ahead of you (some years more frequently than others, i'm sure) so it's not like this is the last stop on the train or anywhere close.

whatever you do, DO NOT TELL HER that the reason you are leaving is because you're turned off by her body. just tell her you like her a lot but the chemistry just isn't there.

just as a random aside, because it seems to have happened now twice to women you really like but aren't turned on by--how stable are you in your sexual identity? just to be clear: i don't think it means you're gay i just find it somewhat surprising that a straight 23-year-old male would have developed such a strict "type" so early in life, especially when it's a boyish figure. but you know, just because i find it surprising doesn't make it so. just thought i'd throw it out there for consideration.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:37 PM on May 4

I have been this woman.

Being told that I was loved but that my body was the problem (for 2 years while he tried to make it work), rather than "we're not on the same page emotionally" or "we're not on the same page philosophically" was something that took me two years, a good relationship, and hundreds of dollars in therapy to get over. Granted, I was emotionally invested.

Please do not do this to a fellow human. It's cruel, damaging, and disheartening. She is not there to be the basis of an experiment. Let her go and be with someone who's into her. Work on your own stuff, if you want to, on your own time.
posted by lunaazul at 5:57 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]

You seem like a nice person, and I don't think you're shallow. I'm wondering if you have a lot of expectations built up around sex, and how you're expected to perform or feel or whatever. It seems like maybe this person would be patient enough to explore this sort of thing with you, but I think you'd need to be very honest about not wanting a serious relationship yet. Either that or you need to go on a lot more dates with people before you find yourself in bed with them- you ought to be able to tell whether or not you're really sexually attracted to them if you wait long enough.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:24 PM on May 4

If she's not a size zero she's more than likely already got body issues

wtf?!?! That's a ridiculous blanket statement and, quite frankly, as a woman it offends the hell out of me. Not all of us are at home crying our eyes out because we aren't in the popular group, weight-wise. Please.

OP: please do not listen to some of the advice you've had from posters telling you that you're a bad, horrible person for not immediately loving this woman for her personality alone. It's bad advice. If you spend 2 minutes thinking about people you know or reading tabloid media you will see that human beings are clearly swayed largely by physical attraction in choosing mates. Idiosyncratic, individual, sometimes-downright-weird as that attraction may be (Mick Jagger??). It's perfectly normal and sort of the entire ~point~ of dating is feeling these things out in a low pressure situation with no commitments on either side.
posted by fshgrl at 6:57 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]

Nobody (including the asker) seems to be addressing the real problem here: The OP thinks he can probably get an erection without delving into his 'unusual' kinks. Furthermore, he has absolutely no experience actually getting any of such without said delving. Moreover, this was his first time with a new partner, his second partner ever, and it's been a while since the last one.
Some time, some further familiarity with this new partner, and some delving are in order here, before you decide whether it's really her body. She may toss you aside over the delving—it's no worse than what you were going to do to her over the pudge. She may not; there's only one way to find out.
And seriously, under no circumstance should you tell her (post-time, post-experience, and post-delving) or imply to her that it's because she's "slightly pudgy." Do not listen to the few posters who have told you otherwise. That is bad advice: it's mean and it won't do anyone a lick of good. Shallow is one thing, but not being a bastard is a simple matter of not being a bastard. Don't be a bastard.
posted by willpie at 7:04 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]

You have every right to be with somebody you find attractive (or, failing that, to remain single) and what you personally find attractive is entirely your prerogative.

I'd like to ask, though: are you really sure it's her body, specifically, that's turning you off? You seem to have assumed this to be the case, but to me it simply suggests a possible lack of sexual chemistry. Chemistry either happens or it doesn't, and it's not always clear why, so perhaps you've fixated on something - anything - that you can point to and use as an explanation for why you didn't feel sparks. If you did feel those sparks, then you might just as easily be gushing "wow, isn't she so cute & curvaceous!"

Just suggesting this, because the first time or few times with a new partner can usually be expected to be somewhat nervous & awkward. It might be that awkwardness that's turning you off, so maybe giving it a bit of time could be a good idea unless you're really certain that it's a body thing, and that you could never find her attractive in bed.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:28 PM on May 4

NO MAN RECOVERS from calling a woman fat. Repeat, no one. I have no idea how you can sweetly tell someone that you are not sexually attracted to them because of their "pudge." Just let her go and don't be a jerk.

You know that you are going to let her go. So let her go and find someone else.
posted by jadepearl at 7:38 PM on May 4

For god's sake do not tell her you are turned off by her body. I cannot imagine anything more cruel. There is no universal standard of attractiveness, I'm sure there are many men who would find her attractive, you aren't one of them and that ok. But having a guy that's just seen you naked tell you he couldn't get hard because you were too pudgy would send anyone hurtling towards bulimia. There is nothing objectively wrong with this girl, there is nothing she needs to "fix", so telling her would only give her a complex. A person would have to have self esteem of cast iron steel to survive that one.

I don't think you're shallow. You've gotten to know her, you obviously really like her as a person, but the attraction has failed to blossom and I doubt at this point it will. I consider people who are shallow the type that won't date anyone they consider "not in their league" or they wouldn't want to be seen with a girl that is a little overweight (you know the guy that'll sleep with the BBW for 6 months, but will never introduce her to his friends), that doesn't appear to be you, so don't worry. Tell her you're just not over your ex and she's really nice and you hope you two can remain friends. It's totally plausible and to be honest probably true to a certain extent. Brutal honest does not necessary equal the higher moral ground and it certainly doesn't in this instance.
posted by whoaali at 8:08 PM on May 4

I haven't read all the above posts but I agree you should break it off without giving the details of your body requirements.

Triple emphasis to what UbuRoivas said.

My contribution is to add that your life will be much simpler (and theirs as well) if you don't have sex without attraction. If you're not mad to get into each other's pants AT LEAST the first time, you're heading down a road to nowhere.

And if you "like" her a lot, as you said, then date her, and the attraction might sneak up and surprise you.
posted by JimN2TAW at 8:09 PM on May 4

then date her,

Have I accidentally used the wrong term? I meant, go out and hang out together without sex and without making out, which I assume means kissing.
posted by JimN2TAW at 8:13 PM on May 4

You know, I'd normally say break up if you don't like her looks, but you had this problem before. Play it out a bit more and get some therapy.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:03 PM on May 4

If the range of what he was attracted to was wider, and included body types that aren't outside the range of reason for an older woman to eventually have, it'd be no big deal. The range of what he finds attractive is way more narrow than a woman can reasonably sustain, though.

How do you know this? For all we know this woman could be, say, 5'5" and 140lbs. That's nowhere near "fat" and yet plenty of women weigh less than this and it's not unreasonable that some women could manage to be 5'5" and stay under 135lbs their entire lives.

All you need to do is look at a couple that's been together for 20 years or so and you'll know that their attraction for each other lasts despite the physical changes, not because the woman is equally turned on by a man who's svelte as a man with a sizable paunch.

IANA scientist, but I'm pretty sure that different chemicals are in play when dealing with a long term relationship than in a short term relationship. In the short term, it's all about lust chemicals, long term it's all about attachment chemicals. When you're first dating, your partner's sexy body stimulates all the right lust chemicals, but when you've been with them for a while the curve of their lips or the twinkle in their eye is going to set off all the right attachment chemicals. So it doesn't matter if the poster really does need a skinnier lady to get turned on right now; once he meets the right woman it will probably make little difference which way her waist goes when she gets older.

So what does that mean for the poster?

Well, first of all, OP, this is still just your second lady. First nights are often sketchy at best. I'd say your first go is never a good indicator of how sexy-sex stuff is going to be like with her. Also, if she didn't actually want to have sex that night she may have been sending subtle signals that you were picking up and your body was responding accordingly. You say you really click and you enjoy making out. Somehow if she grossed you out totally I don't think you'd be comfortable making out with her.

You had trouble getting turned on by the last girl you were with. You don't say whether she was pudgy also, but you stayed with her for a long time and eventually did have sex with her. You mention something about kinky but then toss it aside. I wonder if there are sex issues you need to work on that have nothing to do with the body fat percentage of the person you are with. Maybe you need to figure that part out (maybe therapy, maybe not). Maybe just communicate your kink with this girl? If she's not into it, great -- this can be your graceful exit. If she is into it, maybe, just maybe, this is what is missing now and what was missing in your last relationship.
posted by Deathalicious at 9:23 PM on May 4

IANA scientist, but I'm pretty sure that different chemicals are in play when dealing with a long term relationship than in a short term relationship. In the short term, it's all about lust chemicals, long term it's all about attachment chemicals. When you're first dating, your partner's sexy body stimulates all the right lust chemicals, but when you've been with them for a while the curve of their lips or the twinkle in their eye is going to set off all the right attachment chemicals. So it doesn't matter if the poster really does need a skinnier lady to get turned on right now; once he meets the right woman it will probably make little difference which way her waist goes when she gets older.

Exactly. Just because your partner mightn't be able to land a job as a supermodel at age 50 is no reason why you shouldn't want to find them physically hot in the beginning. The deeper attachment can come later; early on, sheer lust also has a valuable place.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:17 PM on May 4

Get out of her life nicely. Or maybe you'll get lucky: she could dump you. Ha! If I knew who she was, I'd suggest it to her.

Extra dweeb points for saying exactly what your problem was. Hello? Guess what - it's not "her fault" and her body isn't really the one you have a problem with. Sorry to be mean but nobody's talking turkey here. If you aren't attracted to somebody initially - which most can tell by sexy conversation, hugging, touching and kissing - why strip and get in bed with them at all? Give me a break. (By the way, you sound as though you could be conflicted, bi or gay). That is fine. Be comfortable with yourself. That usually prevents unnecessary dweebish cruelty to others, for both guys and girls.
posted by ASterling at 10:17 PM on May 4

Give me a break. (By the way, you sound as though you could be conflicted, bi or gay).

What?!? Where in the question does he even hint at this?
posted by Justinian at 10:26 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]

If you aren't attracted to somebody initially - which most can tell by sexy conversation, hugging, touching and kissing - why strip and get in bed with them at all?

Of course it can sometimes happen that you are attracted to somebody initially, but for whatever reason the bed thing just doesn't click.

From the sounds of things, anonymous approached this situation with good intentions, but unfortunately it didn't work out. I'm sure many of us have tried at least once in earnest to make a relationship survive when things just didn't fall together the way we would have liked.

With experience I guess we learn better to cut each others' losses and move on, but calling anonymous a 'dweeb' for going through a normal kind of teething problem like that is a bit harsh, I think.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:43 PM on May 4

Give me a break. (By the way, you sound as though you could be conflicted, bi or gay).

What?!? Where in the question does he even hint at this?

People in the thread have been hinting that his preference for lean women and his lack of physical attraction to his ex might imply that he's a closet case.

ASterling's comment is really important here. I'm close friends with someone around the OP's age who pathologically dates (and gets physical with) girls he's not attracted to. As far as I know, he doesn't have a strong preference for any particular physical characteristics -- it's always seemed like the issue is that he doesn't really know what physical attraction...feels like past the point of getting hard. The girls usually find out about his lack of hots for them and everyone gets hurt in the end. In high school dealing with boys like this wasn't exactly uncommon, but it's really hard to handle when you're in your 20's and you make the (incorrect) assumption that your similarly-aged dates are self-aware enough to know when they're not physically attracted to you and to act of said lack of attraction accordingly.

I'm not trying to be mean, OP, but if you think you might have a similar problem, take a break from dating (or at least sleeping with people early on), figure out what really makes you tick sexually, and stop leading people on.
posted by thisjax at 11:02 PM on May 4

his preference for lean women [...] might imply that he's a closet case

Ah, that hoary old chestnut again! Guys who like slim girls might be closet homosexuals! Wanting girls with arses like 14yo boys!

I think it's no great coincidence that nearly the entire movie, television, popular music & fashion industries promote ultra-thin women, and that many guys gravitate towards this look as a result; especially younger guys, who might not have had much of a chance yet to, erm, relate to women with more womanly figures, or to break free of normative plastic stereotypes of beauty.

The lack of physical interest from a young guy when there's a naked woman in bed and wanting to have sex is a little strange, admittedly. As a blanket statement, I'd normally assume that a 23yo man would probably be quite happy to fuck an orangutan, if only you slapped a bit of lipstick onto her, but of course not everybody's like that.
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:42 PM on May 4

i'm having trouble with all these people who are calling the poster shallow. first off, it's not on. secondly, we have no way of knowing to what extent he is judging the girl by her looks. Often there are a lot of things that make a person attractive or unattractive but looks are either the dealbreaker or at least the one thing we can recognise as being relevant to how we feel.

finally, as been said, just because a guy (or a girl) likes guys or girls of a certain body type does *not* mean they are shallow. everyone has preferences. expecting looks and preferences on them to play a minimal role in attraction is not only unrealistic it's also quite frankly an offensive idea that if you're not potentially "into" every body type then there's something wrong with you as a person.

i've been in a similar situation. great girl, no spark. no, you're not shallow, or a bad person, but a "spark" isn't something that'll suddenly appear if you wait it out. just staying with someone because you don't want to be alone isn't good, save you both the hassle and break it off.

however, your description of a previous relationship makes me think that perhaps it's not that you don't find her attractive so much as you are too inhibited, nervous, uncomfortable or so on so be really into it. given that you haven't had a huge amount of experience with women, it could be worth considering that it's not so much a lack of something so much that you aren't totally comfortable with sex full stop and that's throwing you off. it's worth considering the possibility but obviously it's a complex question that no one of us are in a position to help you with but i would have a think about it if i were you.

and lastly, if you do decide to break up with her, don't tell her (as said) it's because you're not attracted to her. discretion is the better part of valour, perhaps just say that you don't feel a spark. it's ambigious enough to not hurt her feelings too much - obviously you care about the girl enough to bear her emotions in mind.

good luck.
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 12:43 AM on May 5 [1 favorite]

wow ... yes you should break up with her ... for all the reasons stated above ... and I wouldn't say that makes you shallow in a bad way ... just a realistic way.

But (and I will probably get shat on from a great height for this) ... 21 year old girls who are pudgy should probably get more exercise ... it will make them more healthy, more attractive, and generally happier. You could dump her as a girlfriend, but see if she is interested in being a jogging/gym partner ... in a few months she might no longer be pudgy ... but still have her attractive face.

Just a thought
posted by jannw at 8:05 AM on May 5

Yeah, I'll go ahead and poop on you from a moderate height, jannw (but in the most respectful, metafiltery way possible), because exercise is not always the key to a smokin' bod. (And I do not say this as a pudgy 21 year old; I say this as a very fit, lean 29 year old. So you know it's not a personal defensive thing.) Some people do not have the physical capacity to be long and lean. Genes, thyroids, bone structure, stress, depression...there are a million reasons why someone might be 21 and "pudgy." And certainly at 21, presumably on the tail end of college, in the United States where an alternative diet (read: organic etc.) is expensive and where work is rather demanding, I understand why someone might not be super slim. But from this poster's description, it does not seem that this young woman is obese. Curves are sexy, and I would hope that she loves her body exactly as is. And I would hope that others would respect her body and her lifestyle. And who's to say she doesn't exercise? One of my dear friends and marathon-training partners does not have that "marathon" body: she is a solid size 8 to 10 but she is fit and healthy and can kick my size 2 ass from here to Timbuktu in hill repeats, track workouts and, of course, the marathon. (I finish in 4'25". She finishes in 3'50". Dude.)

So there's my (hopefully) respectful disagreement (or shit, if you will) on you, jannw. No hard feelings, though.
posted by cachondeo45 at 8:39 AM on May 5

Lack of an erection does not equal a lack of sexual attraction. Sometimes men just aren't able to get it up in the heat of passion and excitement, especially their first time with someone, even though they really, really want to have an erection.

If you felt relieved that you didn't have an erection, yeah, you're not that into her. Break up with her. Be kind about it.

You need to get a bit more comfortable with yourself and at least hint at your kinks at the beginning of a relationship, so you can quickly eliminate women who would never be into them at all and find someone who will be compatible with them. Make some jokes that touch on them to see how she responds: "Oh, those are nice shoes... what do you think of my shoes.. yours are nicer, maybe I could try them on"; "You're so athletic, I bet you could beat me at wrestling, haha"; "Jaywalking? Oh, you are such a naughty girl". Find a natural opening to make a relavant joke, and look for her to play along. This doesn't guarantee anything, but look for some sort of likelyhood or at least openmindedness before things get too far along.
posted by yohko at 9:16 AM on May 5

You should keep in mind that most Metafilter relationship threads tell you to dump the person. And most threads even mentioning weight or body type spiral out of control. A lot of these comments here have nothing to do with you, so try not to take them too personally.

You're not any shallower than anyone else. Chances are, you're like most guys and by the time you're 30, you'll find yourself appreciating a wide range of lady-types and wondering why you ever wrote any of them off.

But attraction isn't something you can will into existence. That sort of thing is bad news for everyone involved. You're probably better off cooling this relationship for now.
posted by the jam at 10:12 AM on May 5 [1 favorite]

Follow-up from the OP

I hung out with the girl in question last night and I suppose I was being distant and she seemed like she could tell. So I called her today and said that I thought the two of us should cool it for now, that it had nothing to do with her, that I think she's great, that I guess I'm just not ready for a relationship right now, and that I'd still like to hang out if she wants to. All she responded with was "yeah I kind of had a feeling" and "talk to you soon, bye." I feel really shitty but I think it was the right thing to do. Thanks for the replies.

posted by jessamyn at 12:25 PM on May 11

This is redundant now that the OP has resolved the situation. But I wanted to add my bit: The absolute worst relationship I ever had was with a woman who I was not physically attracted to. I stayed with her because I was lonely. I should have ended it on the *first date*. The physical attraction component is *HUGE* in relationships. Don't try to tough it out, just move on.
posted by wastelands at 9:28 AM on May 24

I know this post is kraz-eee old in the terms of the internet, but I had to add this note:

When I was 15, my first real boyfriend told me as pleasantly as possible that I ought to exercise more and lose some weight. I was 5'2' and weighed about 105 pounds.

BMI is garbage, but for the sake of creating a mental picture, that's a BMI of about 19. This weight is considered "within normal range" for that age. But because I'm slightly big-boned, I looked like a Halloween paper skeleton. Short-term depression issues had killed my appetite, and for non-eating-disordered reasons, I was ingesting fewer than 1000 calories a day. Usually, much fewer. I was as slender as it was possible for me to be, short of outright starvation.

Keep in mind that I don't hold any grudges against this person (who was a boy at the time) -- but consider the fact that it's 11 years later and I still remember. And dude didn't even dump me, and actually did find me attractive!

So, another vote for "end these sorts of relationships, but don't you dare tell another person that you're breaking it off because they're too fat for you".
posted by Coatlicue at 10:51 AM on September 22