What sort of neighbor to be?

April 16, 2008 4:21 PM

This morning, my neighbors down the hall had an extended, high-volume fight. It frightened me in its intensity and content. I called the cops and slipped a note under the door when the aggressor left. Is there anything else I can or should do?

Some details:

I'm in New York City. I'm three apartments away and could them clearly for over 20 minutes. The content of the fight (which was between two women) included things like
"I'll kill you. A restraining order won't help you."
"You're insane and should be put away."
"Go back in your room or I'll kill you."
from the lower-voiced woman.

There was also a lot of screaming and crying and "don't touch me" and "why are you doing this?" and "help!" from the higher-voiced woman.

After I called 911 to report a domestic disturbance, I headed down the hall (towards their apartment) to knock on my neighbor's door to ask him to call the cops as well. Just then, I heard the lower-voiced woman saying that she was going to work now, that she was going to kill the *expletive* if her room wasn't clean when she got home, and for the *expletive* to get in her room and shut the door. I fled back to my apartment and watched the woman walk by through my peephole. I admit, I was scared of her.

I don't know if the cops ever came; I had to leave for work about 10 minutes later. And although the apartment has two names on it, I've only ever seen the one woman, the aggressor, before this; she looks to be a later 20s early 30s career girl like me.

I've heard fights. Hell, I've had fights. This was disturbingly violent and cruel sounding.

So, aside from calling the cops and slipping the note under the door later (with the local domestic violence hotline on it), is there anything more to be done?

posted by minervous to human relations (37 comments total)

Document what you heard, when you heard it, and what you did about it. Fax this to the police department. Try not to get involved (as in interacting with the"abuser"), as you never know if you'll be a "trigger" for worser things. If you see the "victim" alone at some point you might want to offer help. You could also contact a women's shelter.

It seems to me that if the victim isn't willing to call the police (or take some other sort of action) there's nothing much you can do about the situation.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:28 PM on April 16

DON'T SLIP A NOTE UNDER THEIR DOOR. You don't want to get involved with them personally. (Or, at least, you don't want them to know of your involvement.) The note might escalate things or might make you a target.

Calling the cops is your best bet. Do it again, next time. Let them handle it.
posted by mudpuppie at 4:29 PM on April 16

Well since you live in NYC and really have no good options to defend yourself, I recommend letting the cops handle it. Is that the righteous thing to do...no...but you live in NYC so your options are pretty limited.

It sucks...really hard to have to put aside your human compassion but our legal system has done it's best to discourage such behavior in times like this.
posted by evilelvis at 4:38 PM on April 16

Well since you live in NYC and really have no good options to defend yourself, I recommend letting the cops handle it. Is that the righteous thing to do...no...but you live in NYC so your options are pretty limited.

Fuck me. That above comment terrifies me. Like you are going to strut doon the hallway with a kalashnikov the next time you hear a barney. Maybe I am just being a naive European. Phone the polis. The first, next and any time you hear what you think may be any form of domestic violence.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 4:44 PM on April 16 [1 favorite]

Oh fuck, evil elvis already said call the cops.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 4:46 PM on April 16

Someone saying "Go to your room" and "Clean your room" sounds like a verbally -and possibly physically- abusive parent, no matter how young she may seem. My downstairs neighbors were doing this for a while, yelling curses at each other from six in the morning to midnight and later. The one time it actually sounded like it got physical, my husband and I called the cops. We stayed in our apartment, safe, because this is one of those situations where pretty much all you know about it is what they say. Who knows if one has a gun or a knife, etc? This is why we have cops.

The mother lied to the cops when they came, despite our detailed description of their threats and the exclamations of pain that were emitting from their unit. Since the fire alarm conveniently had started going off, she said "oh, it was just the fire alarm" and they believed her (?!). However, it had the effect we were looking for. The fighting deescalated after that night, and they have been relatively quiet since then. Now I just have to deal with her son fighting with his girlfriend. *sigh*.
posted by nursegracer at 4:46 PM on April 16

I would agree to call the cops but not get involved otherwise. You don't want to make yourself an object of interest to a crazy person.

You can't really offer any help that hasn't already been offered more effectively by the police or other social services (and probably rejected). You can't rescue adults from their own circumstances unless they're making an effort to take the first step.
posted by dixie flatline at 4:47 PM on April 16

Ignore it next time.
posted by fire&wings at 4:49 PM on April 16

Are you absolutely sure the victim is another grown woman, and not a child or teenager? If you think there's any chance it's someone under 18, you could try calling Child Protective Services. Another option is to alert the property manager or super, and ask them to try calling the police as well. There's no guarantee they'll do it, but I imagine it's worth a shot.
posted by justonegirl at 4:51 PM on April 16 [1 favorite]

Uh, no, bad bad advice to ignore it. When someone yells "I'll kill you" at their domestic partner, you don't ignore it.
posted by mudpuppie at 4:52 PM on April 16

Calling the cops is the right thing. I think the note is also fine if you're anonymous: 'there are people who could help you.' and the hot line number seems kind and wise to me.

"I'll kill you." is bad, but for me, the "help!" is what would push me over the edge enough to do something.

I was also horrified by evilelvis's comment, which doesn't even seem to leave any proper place for a police force. WTF is wrong with this country?
posted by rokusan at 5:02 PM on April 16

Hmm, I'm not sure how evilelvis's comment is being read, but it seems to me he said to call the cops and let them handle it, i.e. pretty much the same thing everyone else said.
posted by dixie flatline at 5:07 PM on April 16

OP here.

To be clear: I did slip a note under the door this morning. It read "if you need help, you can find it here: 800.xxx.xxxx - local domestic abuse hotline." I did not sign my name.

Thanks, everyone, for your responses.
posted by minervous at 5:07 PM on April 16

I think calling CPS is a good idea, NYC cops are really overworked right now because the force is understaffed. Example, in my neighborhood they don't come to calls unless they are violent crimes. CPS can be a bit more thorough if there is a child involved.

Thanks for doing what you did--it's people like you who make city life worth it.
posted by sondrialiac at 5:53 PM on April 16

nth ignore it, just turn up some tunes, take a shower or whatever, go about your business

that and worse is occurring at every moment in numerous places all across the city
posted by Salvatorparadise at 5:56 PM on April 16

Especially in a big city, it seems that there's a strong tendency to just grow accustomed to this stuff and ignore it. Merely calling the cops when it happens is already doing more than many of the people out there, who will just turn up their stereos a bit so they don't have to hear their neighboring getting beat. I think you handled this well.

"I'm not sure how evilelvis's comment is being read"

I think it comes across as, "You should really go in with two guns strapped to your hip and set things straight," while I have a feeling his point was actually, "Don't get physically involved, especially since you can't get a weapon to defend yourself."
posted by fogster at 6:00 PM on April 16

Keep calling the cops. It's likely this will keep happening, and the abused person won't press charges, because sadly that's common. But it's still the right thing to do.

I've had this situation (overhearing) before, and called the cops, and have been told by the police that domestic violence calls are the situations they fear the most, because they are so unpredictable. They say to stay out of the way if you aren't involved, once they get there, because otherwise it leads to trouble.
posted by misha at 6:04 PM on April 16

Calling the cops was the right move. When I was out of University, I worked as a security guard in a hotel. Once in a while, we would get a noise complaint about a domestic dispute in progress.

Where I live, security officers are advised to call the police on calls like this right away... In fact, it was illegal for us to intervene. The reasoning behind that law I suppose, is that these calls are so incredibly dangerous (high level of emotions) and the chain of evidence is so strict it pretty much needs to be observed by the cops for any charges to be leveled against the offender (I can remember one, where I heard some yelling and a big thump, the hotel room door opened, and a crying woman exited the room holding her nose, while a guy stood behind her trying to shake the pain out of his hand... in this case, he wasn't registered to the room and we just threw him out of the hotel, but the evidence wasn't convincing enough for the police).

My advice, stay out of these conflicts and involve the police; communicate urgency to them if necessary and take down anything you see or hear in a notebook to provide law enforcement (just observable details, do not provide commentary. in a tense situation; you may be reacting physically to the event and forget the details. Try to include the times of events, date of events, and weather conditions on the page somewhere)
posted by Deep Dish at 6:09 PM on April 16

nth ignore it, just turn up some tunes, take a shower or whatever, go about your business

that and worse is occurring at every moment in numerous places all across the city

You clearly have never been in the situation where you were trying to scream loudly enough for your neighbors to hear you and help. The fact that "that and worse is occurring at every moment" is precisely why we have to act, not ignore.

Call the police every time you hear this.
posted by iguanapolitico at 6:16 PM on April 16 [4 favorites]

nth ignore it, just turn up some tunes, take a shower or whatever, go about your business

that and worse is occurring at every moment in numerous places all across the city

Attitudes like the one seen here are why things like this happen.

You're not equipped to handle things like this, so the only correct response is getting people who are equipped involved--in this case, the police. You were right to call the cops, and I'd suggest continuing to call them every time you hear a domestic disturbance like this.

I wouldn't slip any more notes under the door, though, as admirable as your motives were. You don't want to become personally involved with what sounds like a potentially violent situation.

(As a sidenote--I'm a lifelong city dweller, and while I subscribe to the "mind your own f---ing business" model of living 99% of the time, I would never hesisitate to call the police if I heard someone explicitly shouting for help.)
posted by cosmic osmo at 6:34 PM on April 16 [2 favorites]

Do not do anything that might personally identify you, yourself. This person is obviously violent, and you want to avoid becoming a target yourself. People get murdered in domestic violence situations, and you don't want to place yourself in harm's way.
Call the police if you hear sounds of domestic violence, and yes, logging it would be a good idea. You can decide later if you want to come forward with it, should the occasion arise, but that way you'll have it. If you happen to own a cassette recorder, you might want to record the sounds from your apartment.
You can get a whole stack of cards from some domestic violence help group and slip them under the door as you see fit, or lay them in front of the door. Don't do it at some regular time, in case the victimizer is watching.
posted by unrepentanthippie at 6:43 PM on April 16

Especially in a big city, it seems that there's a strong tendency to just grow accustomed to this stuff and ignore it. Merely calling the cops when it happens is already doing more than many of the people out there, who will just turn up their stereos a bit so they don't have to hear their neighboring getting beat. I think you handled this well.

Trust me, you're a lot more likely to get help in a big city than out in the country. Neighbors in a small town or in the country are a lot less likely to know what's going on, and even if they do, they're unlikely to get involved. I've never felt safer and more looked out for than when I moved to the city.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 6:45 PM on April 16 [1 favorite]

nthing the other advice about calling CPS if the other person is a minor and documenting everything you hear. Please don't ignore this if it's really as bad as you say it is.
posted by lilac girl at 7:11 PM on April 16

Good job on the note. Anonymous, and to the point. But yeah, call the cops if you hear even a peep out of the aggressive woman. The cops may not show up, but if you call them every time you hear something, and if the fights continue, eventually they'll take notice and stop by. Even if that happens and the police talk to the two individuals, it's likely nothing will come of it. So your abuse hotline advice was good. Maybe talk to the victim if you get a chance?
posted by zardoz at 7:16 PM on April 16

Please call. I had neighbours who fought all the time. I called the cops all the time. One night, I was tired of calling the cops. So I didn't call. That's the night I listened to my neighbour die and saw them hauled away under a blanket in the morning.

Please call the cops. And, by the sounds of it, Child Protective Services, just in case.
posted by acoutu at 7:21 PM on April 16 [1 favorite]

I'm actually a little worried that the aggressive woman will see the note and take it out on the victim, but hopefully not. In any case, at least it can't be traced back to you. Don't write any more notes, or if you must, make them oblique.

If there's any way you can get back in touch with the cops and find out whether or not they made the visit, I would.
posted by bettafish at 7:27 PM on April 16

While calling the cops is undoubtedly the right thing to do, you should be realistic about the results of doing that; in a big city the cops will likely ignore you and not even bother to show up if it's just a bunch of yelling. That doesn't mean you shouldn't call. If it keeps happening, they might eventually show up if you bug them enough, but realistically, "calling the cops" in a situation like this is not going to accomplish a lot.

I am assuming you are female? If it were me and I heard a woman yelling for help and another woman yelling at her like that, I'd be down there banging, hard, on the door before you could blink. But I recognize that the situation changes if you are female.
posted by Justinian at 7:59 PM on April 16

Get brochures from domestic violence agencies. Slide them under the door as an education campaign. Call the cops if you hear serious fighting, threats, abuse. Call as often as necessary.
posted by theora55 at 8:13 PM on April 16 [1 favorite]

Just keep calling the police at the first sign of trouble. And if you suspect at all there are kids or teenagers in the house, call social services too.
posted by whoaali at 8:16 PM on April 16

Do nothing and you might as well be lending a hand.
posted by Oriole Adams at 8:25 PM on April 16

I feel like I need to reiterate that sliding brochures under the door (or notes, even though that's already done) may be well-meaning, but it could make the situation worse. The aggressor could easily assume that the victim told others about the abuse, and that that's why the brochures appeared. This would not be a good outcome. You're not going to change the abuser's behavior by sliding brochures under the door. There is a very slim chance that the victim could find the brochures and hie herself to a shelter, but come on -- that's probably not the way it's going to play out.

The brochures are a bad idea. Calling the cops when something is happening is a good idea.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:34 PM on April 16 [1 favorite]

Calling the cops was appropriate. What else do you know about these people. You said you only see the one person, that in itself is strange. What is the other person a live-in slave? Perhaps it is a teen-age daughter.

PS WHy is everyone getting on New York and New York cops? Native New Yorker here and I have called the cops twice for domestic violence, and once because I saw an armored truck on the side of the LIE on New Years day (which I thought was pretty effin' strange) All three times the cops came right away. Granted this was from the mid nineties on, seventies and eighties was a different story.

Trust me all who live in NY, NY cops will usually come, and pretty quickly too.
posted by xetere at 9:58 PM on April 16

The idea that you should not call the police because "that and worse" is occurring in New York City every day is absolutely ridiculous. That and more is occurring all over the country and your responsiblity as a citizen and a human being is to call the authorities. I can't believe people have even thought to type "ignore it." A domestic where two people are yelling and screaming ...OK..we've all been there. A domestic with threats to kill the other person? Who in their right mind could ignore that?
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:17 PM on April 16

I know it may seen strange, but perhaps this is just how those two people interact, albeit amplified by anger, as anger tends to do; their normal speech could be, by our standards, rather violent, so you could imagine how bad it would seem when they are angry.

I'm not suggesting you turn a blind eye, but I'd imagine you understand far less of the situation then you think you might (context is key). If it really worries you, perhaps you could call the police, but that has the potential to make the situation and environment worse also. It really is a situation where you shouldn't involve yourself with, less you get a rap for being the nosey (and thus hated) neighour.
posted by oxford blue at 10:26 PM on April 16

There have been death threats made, oxford. Angry death threats, not "hahaha" death threats. If that's not a matter for the police, what the hell is? I know I'd rather be the nosy neighbor than live with the guilt of someone being hurt or killed when I could have prevented it with a simple phone call; I also know I'd rather someone be nosy because I or an SO got a little loud or angry than have nobody come to help if I were in danger. Jeez.
posted by bettafish at 1:28 AM on April 17

There have been death threats made, oxford. Angry death threats, not "hahaha" death threats. If that's not a matter for the police, what the hell is? I know I'd rather be the nosy neighbor than live with the guilt of someone being hurt or killed when I could have prevented it with a simple phone call; I also know I'd rather someone be nosy because I or an SO got a little loud or angry than have nobody come to help if I were in danger. Jeez.

Like I said, none of us, even to a large degree the original poster are in a position to fully know the situation; anything involving emotion is difficult to explain, even moreso to third or forth parties. As such, isn't this essentially all hearsay, open to different interpretations anyway? I think anything beyond dialogue you'd find in a Austen book is harsh dialogue, whereas you might find language that makes a sailor blush to be acceptable. Communication is subjective in essence.

I'm not saying don't call; the original poster has, and in some cases this is warranted. This satisfies your moral requirement (It's interesting how morality is often guilty avoidance). What I am trying to stress, is beyond calling getting further involved is not likely to end well for either parties.
posted by oxford blue at 3:38 AM on April 17

I'm actually a little worried that the aggressive woman will see the note and take it out on the victim

Get brochures from domestic violence agencies. Slide them under the door as an education campaign.

I feel like I need to reiterate that sliding brochures under the door (or notes, even though that's already done) may be well-meaning, but it could make the situation worse. The aggressor could easily assume that the victim told others about the abuse, and that that's why the brochures appeared.

I have to second and third this...from first hand experience. I would even go so far as to say that if you ever see the abused woman (unless you are 100% sure that her partner is not around or won't find out--which from my experience is not likely) or the two of them together, you might want to ignore them or act disinterested, or at least as neutral as possible. Any flicker of recognition or sympathy could backfire in the same manner as the brochure idea. An abusive person is likely to think that the abused person has told people or has secret alliances and relationships, even without brochures, notes, or unprecendented friendly interactions "confirming" it. This couold lead to hell for the other woman or agression toward you.

Call the police. Every time. But probably don't do anything else.

This is a depressing attitude, I know. But while resources for escape and help are valuable, and hotlines and shelters and allies are certainly necessary, abusive relationships are more complicated than outisders can understand. Definitely call the police to try to stop the actual violence when it comes to that, but be very careful about anything else.

It sucks. I know.
posted by Pax at 6:18 AM on April 17