How liable am I if I was 'just following orders'.

April 12, 2008 8:51 AM

I was told to falsify information at my job and then fired for it a year later. I received no training regarding the form that I was told to change and had no idea that it was considered a legal document. Do I have any recourse here or am I just a dumb rube who got played by higher-level bastards?
posted by smackwich to law & government (21 comments total)

Who was it that advised you to change the form?
posted by netbros at 8:56 AM on April 12, 2008

My direct superior and the person in charge of the project. He left environmental samples in a refrigerator for a month and had me change the dates on the chain-of-custody so that the laboratory/government would accept the samples.
posted by smackwich at 8:57 AM on April 12, 2008

Do you have documentation of the request to change the info?
posted by mkultra at 8:59 AM on April 12, 2008

It was a verbal conversation.
posted by smackwich at 9:00 AM on April 12, 2008

Then basically it sounds like a case of he said/you said. Arbitration will be tough, unless your superior comes clean in a hearing.
posted by netbros at 9:02 AM on April 12, 2008

If it's your word against theirs, and they won't support you (and are the people firing you) then you're screwed.

It sounds like they knew precisely what they were doing, and pushed you out in the boat and let go of the rope/pulled up the ladder. Sorry.
posted by Brockles at 9:02 AM on April 12, 2008

That's what I figured. Thanks for the info.
posted by smackwich at 9:04 AM on April 12, 2008

Perhaps the person who collected the original environmental sample (provided it is a third party and not your boss) has documentation of when it was obtained.
posted by netbros at 9:05 AM on April 12, 2008

I was the person who collected the sample. It's a tiny company and the other party involved is the vice president.
posted by smackwich at 9:08 AM on April 12, 2008

At the least, you may wish to let the government know that you have suspicions that this contractor you worked for is willing to "cook the books." The government may become more diligent with audits, follow-through, etc. as regards this outfit. Hope all goes well in finding your next job.
posted by netbros at 9:09 AM on April 12, 2008

At the least, you may wish to let the government know that you have suspicions that this contractor you worked for is willing to "cook the books."

But in this instance, it was the poster who essentially cooked the books, at least that is what the shocked shocked superiors will attest to the government.

I am afraid, smackwich, you are screwed, chalk it up to experience, and hope the gummint doesn't go after you.
posted by xetere at 9:26 AM on April 12, 2008

Yes, the poster was the one who changed the record, and he has no documentation to prove he was told to do so by a superior, so he has no proof to show the government. That's why I chose the work suspicions.

If the government receives a "whistle-blowing" report from the poster, they can take it with a grain of salt. But just perhaps, they will keep a closer eye on this company in the future.

It sounds like this matter involves environmental science. Perhaps it isn't serious, but if there are contractors out there fudging soil or water samples, or whatever this case may be, that sounds like something we all may be concerned with.
posted by netbros at 9:39 AM on April 12, 2008

It's also worth pointing out that even if you could prove that your boss told you to do something illegal, it doesn't competely absolve you from guilt in the eyes of the law. As an over-the-top example, what if your boss told you to buy a gun and go shoot somebody?

It's a very tough situation to be put in when you're asked to break the law or your own personal ethics as part of your job. You could either refuse and risk being fired for "not doing your job", or accept and risk being held accountable for something that you were against in the first place.

Personally, I tend to refuse to do anything as part of my job that I'm not comfortable doing. I know this attitude could get me fired someday, but I'd rather be fired for doing the right thing than get paid for doing the wrong thing.
posted by burnmp3s at 9:52 AM on April 12, 2008

hold your horses, op!

are you the only one? does this supervisor have a spotty track record? what are the potential ramifications from a big stink for your former employer? there are lots of unknown quantities in here. you need to get a lawyer.
posted by krautland at 10:22 AM on April 12, 2008

Government Accountability Project contact info
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:23 AM on April 12, 2008

If the government receives a "whistle-blowing" report from the poster, they can take it with a grain of salt. But just perhaps, they will keep a closer eye on this company in the future.

Yes, at least that will make it harder to get away with it the next time they are "surprised" by an employee falsifying such records (or maybe this isn't the first time).

The advice to talk to a lawyer isn't bad either (you might even find one who does the initial consultation for free).
posted by winston at 2:38 PM on April 12, 2008

I've considered consulting a lawyer but I'm mortally afraid of being publicly branded for falsifying information. It's pretty much the kiss of death if you're a scientist of any sort.

It's also worth pointing out that even if you could prove that your boss told you to do something illegal, it doesn't competely absolve you from guilt in the eyes of the law. As an over-the-top example, what if your boss told you to buy a gun and go shoot somebody?

I had no idea what I was doing was illegal, I didn't even know the form I was told to change constituted a legal document. I really feel like I played the useful idiot in this situation.
posted by smackwich at 4:38 PM on April 12, 2008

You definitely need a lawyer. At the very least, you need to document as much as you can about this incident and any conversations you remember. The thing I'd be worried about is an eventual investigation where they want to come after the company.

A friend of mine once signed a state corporate organization filing. Or may not have. The corporation, several years later, turned out to be a dummy for tax fraud purposes and the FBI questioned her for weeks trying to make her a witness for the prosecution just because of that signature.

Anyway, you may not want to proceed with anything right now, but you probably should take steps to protect yourself down the road. You were set up (at least you tell us you were) and depending on where you are in your career it may or may not make sense to sue over an illegal termination. Certainly, none of us is even in a position to really advise you about employment law, let alone the ins and outs of administrative environmental law.
posted by dhartung at 4:56 PM on April 12, 2008

What dhartung said. Get a lawyer and swear out an affidavit (basically a written statement under oath) now before the legal action starts, that says exactly what you want it to say. Force your former employer to include it in your personnel file. You have to do something about this even if you don't want your job back, because things like this can and will come back to haunt you. And when they do, you'll probably be making a statement under oath in a deposition, but at that point you won't be controlling what you say.
posted by Pastabagel at 9:17 PM on April 12, 2008

Depending on the industry you are working in, the government at some point may try to debar you from working for ANYONE in that industry if they find out. For example, FDA debars people who they find doing this kind of thing.

Therefore you should document now, in consultation with a lawyer.
posted by blue_wardrobe at 9:21 PM on April 12, 2008

Whatever you do, you need to stop talking about it here.
posted by mkultra at 2:27 PM on April 13, 2008