What should I discuss before agreeing to a postdoc?
April 9, 2008 7:04 AM Subscribe
I've been interviewing for bioinformatics postdoctoral positions in the U.S. and will soon be discussing the details of taking a position. Do you have suggestions over things I should discuss with my prospective mentor or research on my own before agreeing to the job?
Obvious things include: project scope, independence, salary, benefits, whether I have to apply for my own funding. I've visited and met with lab members so I know what these places and future co-workers are like to a certain extent.
Obvious things include: project scope, independence, salary, benefits, whether I have to apply for my own funding. I've visited and met with lab members so I know what these places and future co-workers are like to a certain extent.
I fled academia before doing a post-doc but:
- hours: some profs expect postdocs to be nose to the grindstone 60 hours a week; some will leave it up to you to set your own schedule
- publications: how much input will the prof demand / provide; where will s/he expect their name to appear in the author list; I've heard of some profs who hang on to things forever before agreeing to send them out for publication.
- intellectual property. what is the institution's policy? what does the prof think?
posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:29 AM on April 9, 2008
- hours: some profs expect postdocs to be nose to the grindstone 60 hours a week; some will leave it up to you to set your own schedule
- publications: how much input will the prof demand / provide; where will s/he expect their name to appear in the author list; I've heard of some profs who hang on to things forever before agreeing to send them out for publication.
- intellectual property. what is the institution's policy? what does the prof think?
posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:29 AM on April 9, 2008
Assuming you are happy with the position, culture, environment, responsibilities, and all that (which you probably are if you're at the place of talking about an offer) then the next questions to ask are probably the hardest but also some of the most important for you personally. Never be ashamed of protecting yourself.
So ask the same kinds of things you should ask when considering any job offer: When do the benefits kick in? If they kick in over a period of time, what is that schedule? What is the average number of vacation days taken by employees each year (they could give you 6 months of paid vacation, but if they don't actually let you take the time off, its worthless)? How often in the past 5 years have bonuses been paid (again, they could offer you a 1000% bonus, but if they never meet their performance goals and the bonuses never kick in, again, worthless)? What is the stock option amortization schedule? How long are those options good for (typically 10 years, but always good to double-check)? What's the average length of time it takes for an option to reach its strike price? How many options paid in the past to employees in the past five years have been sold (they may be reticent with this kind of info, especially as it gets towards discussion of the compensation packages of other employees, but never hurts to ask. And if they're public, that gives you some leverage. Go in with their SEC filings and make like you've read them. That'll shake 'em up!)?
Again, the basic point is that a package full of worthless stock options is, itself, worthless. You should do the same kind of research on options you'll be awarded that you would on options you'd buy, because in a very real sense, you are buying them. You are allowing your company to defer payment of part of your compensation in terms of both time and liquidity, and both those have very real monetary values. You need to ensure that you will be fairly rewarded for essentially loaning your employer these assets. What this comes down to is being relatively confident that you're employer's credit on those assets is good, which in the context of option compensation means that their stock prise will continue to - and this is the key part - consistently rise. Slow and low is better than fast and wild, at least in terms of options, because unfortunately your option amortization schedule will tend to negatively correlate with the stock price. Supply and demand.
Also always bear in mind that past performance is no guarantee of future results (although very broadly they tend to correlate, especially if management has been retrenched throughout the entire period.)
posted by ChasFile at 7:33 AM on April 9, 2008
So ask the same kinds of things you should ask when considering any job offer: When do the benefits kick in? If they kick in over a period of time, what is that schedule? What is the average number of vacation days taken by employees each year (they could give you 6 months of paid vacation, but if they don't actually let you take the time off, its worthless)? How often in the past 5 years have bonuses been paid (again, they could offer you a 1000% bonus, but if they never meet their performance goals and the bonuses never kick in, again, worthless)? What is the stock option amortization schedule? How long are those options good for (typically 10 years, but always good to double-check)? What's the average length of time it takes for an option to reach its strike price? How many options paid in the past to employees in the past five years have been sold (they may be reticent with this kind of info, especially as it gets towards discussion of the compensation packages of other employees, but never hurts to ask. And if they're public, that gives you some leverage. Go in with their SEC filings and make like you've read them. That'll shake 'em up!)?
Again, the basic point is that a package full of worthless stock options is, itself, worthless. You should do the same kind of research on options you'll be awarded that you would on options you'd buy, because in a very real sense, you are buying them. You are allowing your company to defer payment of part of your compensation in terms of both time and liquidity, and both those have very real monetary values. You need to ensure that you will be fairly rewarded for essentially loaning your employer these assets. What this comes down to is being relatively confident that you're employer's credit on those assets is good, which in the context of option compensation means that their stock prise will continue to - and this is the key part - consistently rise. Slow and low is better than fast and wild, at least in terms of options, because unfortunately your option amortization schedule will tend to negatively correlate with the stock price. Supply and demand.
Also always bear in mind that past performance is no guarantee of future results (although very broadly they tend to correlate, especially if management has been retrenched throughout the entire period.)
posted by ChasFile at 7:33 AM on April 9, 2008
This might only apply if ur a international student going for a PostDoc after ur PhD in USA.
If you are planning on working under your OPT, you might want to make sure that your supervisor is willing to sponsor for your H1B. I know some people who worked under their OPT and get kicked out coz their supervisors were too cheap to pay the minimum wage requirement of a H1B
posted by WizKid at 7:37 AM on April 9, 2008
How often in the past 5 years have bonuses been paid ...
Hah! These are reasonable questions that ChasFile asks, but many don't exactly apply to a postdoc. You will get payed a pittance, although it's slightly more than the pittance you got payed as a grad student, so you'll be happy.
And no bonuses.
---
Do talk a bunch with the other people in the lab. Ask them about the lab environment, yes, but also ask yourself whether these are people you will learn from. Do they have skills/insights/etc that you'd like to gain?
Also: ask about policies regarding conferences. Will your advisor send you to one a year? As many as you want, so long as you present? Etc.
Also: what is the placement history of previous folks in the lab? Everybody may be doing very good science, but if your advisor is unknown, nobody may be getting jobs. (Also ask around to other people in the field if they know your potential advisor. The more people know him/her, the easier it will be to get interviews come the time.)
posted by wyzewoman at 8:15 AM on April 9, 2008
Hah! These are reasonable questions that ChasFile asks, but many don't exactly apply to a postdoc. You will get payed a pittance, although it's slightly more than the pittance you got payed as a grad student, so you'll be happy.
And no bonuses.
---
Do talk a bunch with the other people in the lab. Ask them about the lab environment, yes, but also ask yourself whether these are people you will learn from. Do they have skills/insights/etc that you'd like to gain?
Also: ask about policies regarding conferences. Will your advisor send you to one a year? As many as you want, so long as you present? Etc.
Also: what is the placement history of previous folks in the lab? Everybody may be doing very good science, but if your advisor is unknown, nobody may be getting jobs. (Also ask around to other people in the field if they know your potential advisor. The more people know him/her, the easier it will be to get interviews come the time.)
posted by wyzewoman at 8:15 AM on April 9, 2008
Response by poster: These are all good points so far, thank you so much. To clarify a couple of things:
posted by grouse at 8:38 AM on April 9, 2008
- I am a U.S. citizen.
- All of the potential offers are at universities or the government, so stock options and bonuses aren't really a consideration (I wish!).
posted by grouse at 8:38 AM on April 9, 2008
This may be covered under the above-mentioned intellectual property, but if you want to run your own lab next, you need to ask if all or part of your project could taken from the lab. Research universities expect you to hit the ground running with projects for graduate students that stem from an established (ie your postdoc) research project. The current nature of bioinformatics should make this easier for you than for a wet bench scientist.
posted by Jorus at 8:53 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by Jorus at 8:53 AM on April 9, 2008
Perhaps not to ask outright: How many publications a year can you expect/are expected? How many first author pubs can you expect to have by the end of the postdoc? It would be a shame to come out of a postdoc with no better pub record than a regular research assistant might expect. At least, that would be true in my scientific discipline.
posted by mimo at 9:18 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by mimo at 9:18 AM on April 9, 2008
Obvious things include: project scope, independence, salary, benefits, whether I have to apply for my own funding. I've visited and met with lab members so I know what these places and future co-workers are like to a certain extent.
These are great starters... and I'll nth the publications suggestions (how is authorship decided? on both primary research and review articles, if applicable to your discipline?) and the IP suggestions... it may be hard to get to specifics about what you'll be able to take with you when/if you decide to start your own lab, but maybe look into where his/her former postdocs went and try to get a feel for how that transition went. Also, what is the average length of postdocs in that lab? You and the mentor might have different opinions on how long such a position should be.
If the prospective mentor will provide funding at first, at what point will you be expected to get your own?
Also, who will be your go-to person for training, if this is applicable, and how does the mentor feel about you seeking out your own collaborations if there's no one in the lab who can help with your project?
And, will you have opportunities to have people to supervise/train/"employ", be it techs or grad students? And, is this something you want to do as part of your postdoc in order to build mentorship-skills, or would you rather avoid it?
And, naturally, weigh cost of living/benefits based on the city, and based on the notion that the benefits can depend on where your funding is coming from (e.g. institutional money, federal grant money, etc.) because this determines if you are treated more like an employee or a contractor.
And, these are really far flung, but just to cover the bases, does the mentor: a) have a habit of changing his/her mind about projects, benefits, start date, etc and might you need to get this in writing? and b) have a chance of being recruited to another university, and would you be ok with the move?
Excuse the extreme devil's advocate tendency I'm showing, but many of my colleagues are going through this right now so I've heard much about this....
posted by NikitaNikita at 10:26 AM on April 9, 2008
These are great starters... and I'll nth the publications suggestions (how is authorship decided? on both primary research and review articles, if applicable to your discipline?) and the IP suggestions... it may be hard to get to specifics about what you'll be able to take with you when/if you decide to start your own lab, but maybe look into where his/her former postdocs went and try to get a feel for how that transition went. Also, what is the average length of postdocs in that lab? You and the mentor might have different opinions on how long such a position should be.
If the prospective mentor will provide funding at first, at what point will you be expected to get your own?
Also, who will be your go-to person for training, if this is applicable, and how does the mentor feel about you seeking out your own collaborations if there's no one in the lab who can help with your project?
And, will you have opportunities to have people to supervise/train/"employ", be it techs or grad students? And, is this something you want to do as part of your postdoc in order to build mentorship-skills, or would you rather avoid it?
And, naturally, weigh cost of living/benefits based on the city, and based on the notion that the benefits can depend on where your funding is coming from (e.g. institutional money, federal grant money, etc.) because this determines if you are treated more like an employee or a contractor.
And, these are really far flung, but just to cover the bases, does the mentor: a) have a habit of changing his/her mind about projects, benefits, start date, etc and might you need to get this in writing? and b) have a chance of being recruited to another university, and would you be ok with the move?
Excuse the extreme devil's advocate tendency I'm showing, but many of my colleagues are going through this right now so I've heard much about this....
posted by NikitaNikita at 10:26 AM on April 9, 2008
Other stuff to consider, but maybe not ask outright in some cases...
How much guidance/mentorship will you receive from your PI? Will it mesh with your work style? Also, this about what you NEED, not just your overall style, so be really honest with yourself. If you are a procrastinator or don't communicate well, it might seem easier to pair up with a PI who is similar, but it will only spell disaster.
If you have to find your own funding, for how long will the PI cover you. A year? Less? What happens if you can't get funding before the time runs out? Do you have to leave and find a new postdoc or job?
Depending on the city, will you have access to university housing? Will you be able to find affordable housing near the university? Your stipend amount will probably be about the same regardless of the city (maybe a tiny bit extra for larger cities), can you live off that or are you better off somewhere with a lower cost of living?
The PI's area of research might seem cool, but are you willing to do it for the rest of your life?
How much overall funding does the lab have? How willing is the PI to put money into equipment? Can you get the equipment you need or will you be constantly fighting for it?
How many conferences will you be expected to attend? Will you be able to attend? Are there any coming up that you should know about and attend even if they're technically before the postdoc begins?
What is the average tenure of postdocs and grad students in the lab? If everyone is taking forever (longer than usual) to get out of there, why?
And to follow up to NikitaNikita's point, is there a likelihood that the mentor could retire while you are there?
ChasFile's answer makes me smile :)
posted by ml98tu at 2:39 PM on April 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
How much guidance/mentorship will you receive from your PI? Will it mesh with your work style? Also, this about what you NEED, not just your overall style, so be really honest with yourself. If you are a procrastinator or don't communicate well, it might seem easier to pair up with a PI who is similar, but it will only spell disaster.
If you have to find your own funding, for how long will the PI cover you. A year? Less? What happens if you can't get funding before the time runs out? Do you have to leave and find a new postdoc or job?
Depending on the city, will you have access to university housing? Will you be able to find affordable housing near the university? Your stipend amount will probably be about the same regardless of the city (maybe a tiny bit extra for larger cities), can you live off that or are you better off somewhere with a lower cost of living?
The PI's area of research might seem cool, but are you willing to do it for the rest of your life?
How much overall funding does the lab have? How willing is the PI to put money into equipment? Can you get the equipment you need or will you be constantly fighting for it?
How many conferences will you be expected to attend? Will you be able to attend? Are there any coming up that you should know about and attend even if they're technically before the postdoc begins?
What is the average tenure of postdocs and grad students in the lab? If everyone is taking forever (longer than usual) to get out of there, why?
And to follow up to NikitaNikita's point, is there a likelihood that the mentor could retire while you are there?
ChasFile's answer makes me smile :)
posted by ml98tu at 2:39 PM on April 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
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Not that you'll have a whole lot of time to explore your area as a postdoc, but you probably want to pick a place that you'll enjoy when you do have a little free time.
posted by Quietgal at 7:22 AM on April 9, 2008