"You're such a faggot"
April 1, 2008 1:09 PM Subscribe
Is it worth it to file a complaint with the EEOC?
My supervisor and some other coworkers at my small company (about 12 employees) think it's funny to call me a faggot. When I have objected to this ("That's real professional") I'm told I need to lighten up and toughen up. I've been at this job about six months and had planned on staying, but obviously I don't fit in with the frat-boy atmosphere, so I'm looking for other work. But it was suggested to me that I may have a case with the EEOC, despite being straight. Is this worth the time and effort? Have you ever filed an EEOC complaint? What sort of documentation would I need? Am I being ridiculous? (This is in Virginia, should it matter.)
My supervisor and some other coworkers at my small company (about 12 employees) think it's funny to call me a faggot. When I have objected to this ("That's real professional") I'm told I need to lighten up and toughen up. I've been at this job about six months and had planned on staying, but obviously I don't fit in with the frat-boy atmosphere, so I'm looking for other work. But it was suggested to me that I may have a case with the EEOC, despite being straight. Is this worth the time and effort? Have you ever filed an EEOC complaint? What sort of documentation would I need? Am I being ridiculous? (This is in Virginia, should it matter.)
I'm anticipating that you're going to get some bad off-the-cuff answers, but let me give you a threshold problem you're going to face: The federal anti-discrimination laws that the EEOC enforces only apply to organizations that employ more than 15 employees (20 in the case of age discrimination). So unless your "about 12" can be stretched to 16, you're going to get your charge kicked out before you even get in the door. Of course, there is a similar state agency called the Virginia Human Rights Council, and they may not have a requirement about the size of the employer.
posted by pardonyou? at 1:22 PM on April 1, 2008
posted by pardonyou? at 1:22 PM on April 1, 2008
Pardonyou's point is correct. But look at the Virginia Human Rights Council. A similar state-level group exists in Massachussetts and they were very helpful with a problem I had several years ago ... and it didn't cost me a penny.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 1:26 PM on April 1, 2008
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 1:26 PM on April 1, 2008
A lawsuit for professional slander or defamation of character is always a possibility.
posted by IAmBroom at 1:40 PM on April 1, 2008
posted by IAmBroom at 1:40 PM on April 1, 2008
Your job sounds awful and you're not being ridiculous, but I have to say that I don't think this is worth pursuing. To the best of my knowledge, sexual orientation (actual or perceived) is not a protected class under federal EEOC law, and it appears that Virginia law doesn't include it either. I am very much not a lawyer, but I don't think you actually have grounds for an EEOC complaint.
posted by Siobhan at 1:48 PM on April 1, 2008
posted by Siobhan at 1:48 PM on April 1, 2008
Isn't that sexual harrassment? Or at least creating a hostile work environment? You should just file a complaint and get another job. Nthing that lawsuits and EEOC type stuff is time and energy consuming. Easiest thing to do is find another job.
Sorry. I hate giving advice like "find another job" because it's not an easy thing to do and you might actually like your work but hate your colleagues.
posted by onepapertiger at 1:56 PM on April 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sorry. I hate giving advice like "find another job" because it's not an easy thing to do and you might actually like your work but hate your colleagues.
posted by onepapertiger at 1:56 PM on April 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
The good news is it sounds like you're in a position to leave; if I were you I would just do so, and let the VHRC and feds focus their resources on people in the same position as you, who for whatever reason cannot simply quit and find a new job.
That is, you may have a case, but you also have other options that are easier.
posted by davejay at 1:59 PM on April 1, 2008
That is, you may have a case, but you also have other options that are easier.
posted by davejay at 1:59 PM on April 1, 2008
Seems like it would be easier to pursue as a sexual harassment thing. Maybe line up a new job and sue asap? Bankrupt the assholes.
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 2:40 PM on April 1, 2008
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 2:40 PM on April 1, 2008
Sounds like EEO won't work for you, but maybe consider recording it, if audio rules allow in your state? There are other recourses than lawsuits. Public shaming perhaps at a later time?
posted by answergrape at 2:51 PM on April 1, 2008
posted by answergrape at 2:51 PM on April 1, 2008
As mentioned earlier, you might try your state or local civil rights commission (they are called different things in different places). There is a trend in some jurisdictions to cover sexual orientation.
posted by mcroft at 3:31 PM on April 1, 2008
posted by mcroft at 3:31 PM on April 1, 2008
"A lawsuit for professional slander or defamation of character is always a possibility."
That wouldn't fly unless they're saying it around people who don't think they're joking.
"Seems like it would be easier to pursue as a sexual harassment thing. Maybe line up a new job and sue asap? Bankrupt the assholes."
This is great advice if you happen to have thousands of dollars to throw around just to make a point. There are a slew of other problems with this suggestion, but they don't matter at all if you can't afford to hire a lawyer and go to court.
"Complaints like this can take over your life. When you find another job, just move on and put this behind you. It's not worth being involved for months or years afterwards, especially if they try to take you to court out of revenge over slander or something. It would also make getting any kind of positive reference out of them next to impossible."
Thinking like this is precisely the reason why work environments like OP's continue to exist. Keep a log, find a new job, and file a complaint with the appropriate government entities before you leave.
posted by toomuchpete at 3:33 PM on April 1, 2008
That wouldn't fly unless they're saying it around people who don't think they're joking.
"Seems like it would be easier to pursue as a sexual harassment thing. Maybe line up a new job and sue asap? Bankrupt the assholes."
This is great advice if you happen to have thousands of dollars to throw around just to make a point. There are a slew of other problems with this suggestion, but they don't matter at all if you can't afford to hire a lawyer and go to court.
"Complaints like this can take over your life. When you find another job, just move on and put this behind you. It's not worth being involved for months or years afterwards, especially if they try to take you to court out of revenge over slander or something. It would also make getting any kind of positive reference out of them next to impossible."
Thinking like this is precisely the reason why work environments like OP's continue to exist. Keep a log, find a new job, and file a complaint with the appropriate government entities before you leave.
posted by toomuchpete at 3:33 PM on April 1, 2008
Does this company have a policy manual? probably not, but check. Are workers protected from hostile work environment/discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation? They are in Maine. Try calling the Attorney General's office and see if this is legal. Check with the VA Employment Commission. This sort of case is probably hard to win, and would take over your life, but if you feel strongly about it, it's worthwhile to take on these jerks. I'd sit down with your supervisor, explain that you find the environment quite hostile, and would really be more productive in a more professional atmosphere. But I'd still be looking for a new job.
posted by theora55 at 4:19 PM on April 1, 2008
posted by theora55 at 4:19 PM on April 1, 2008
You mention your supervisor being a part of the group. Does he/ she have a supervisor/ manager/ boss...whatever? Have you discussed the situation with that person?
Your manager has an obligation to end the bad enviroment after you explain your feelings. If he does not take action, than you go to his manager.
Having said that, I think you may need to be more emphatic about your feelings. (IE - 'seriously guys, this is offensive and you need to stop' and to your manager: 'I am not comfortable with this line of talk and it needs to stop')
Several people have mentioned keeping a record of the exchanges. That is very important. Write/ type: "4/1/08: when at copy machine, Joe-Bob said: "Hey, stop using all the toner...Faggot". Told Joe-Bob: "I do not appreciate that language. Stop it". Joe-Bob said: "Stop being such a p-ssy". Went to Jim-Bob to discuss issues. Blown off.
If you find the enviroment untenable enough to pursue action, you have details documented and not just: "these guys bother me all the time".
And, like others metnion, I'd be looking for a new job. And then give the pricks the finger as you walk out the door.
posted by beachhead2 at 4:57 PM on April 1, 2008
Your manager has an obligation to end the bad enviroment after you explain your feelings. If he does not take action, than you go to his manager.
Having said that, I think you may need to be more emphatic about your feelings. (IE - 'seriously guys, this is offensive and you need to stop' and to your manager: 'I am not comfortable with this line of talk and it needs to stop')
Several people have mentioned keeping a record of the exchanges. That is very important. Write/ type: "4/1/08: when at copy machine, Joe-Bob said: "Hey, stop using all the toner...Faggot". Told Joe-Bob: "I do not appreciate that language. Stop it". Joe-Bob said: "Stop being such a p-ssy". Went to Jim-Bob to discuss issues. Blown off.
If you find the enviroment untenable enough to pursue action, you have details documented and not just: "these guys bother me all the time".
And, like others metnion, I'd be looking for a new job. And then give the pricks the finger as you walk out the door.
posted by beachhead2 at 4:57 PM on April 1, 2008
Lots of good (or seemingly good to me) answers here, but the thing that stood out for me was the idea that in your post a sarcastic comment = objecting. I'm not sure that it does, really - sarcasm in that context is a very gentle way of calling the behaviour out while winking that it's not THAT bad. At least that's how I would interpret it.
Point being that I think there is a (small, perhaps) chance that a serious, quiet, private conversation might actually have the desired effect. And based on what little I know of the law, having such a conversation would always be the first step you'd have to take anyhow.
posted by mikel at 5:17 PM on April 1, 2008
Point being that I think there is a (small, perhaps) chance that a serious, quiet, private conversation might actually have the desired effect. And based on what little I know of the law, having such a conversation would always be the first step you'd have to take anyhow.
posted by mikel at 5:17 PM on April 1, 2008
I would say that if you feel like the work environment is hostile, then you might very well have a case.
It is tough to get all the information together for this sort of a case, but you'll have to get it all together at some point if you plan on bringing suit. Better to know what documents or evidence your attorney will need to request during discovery.
I was with a law firm that did these sorts of cases. You will not get an attorney to take this case on pure contingency. They will likely have you pay filing fees and administrative costs, as well a portion of the final settlement. Plus, litigation is a long and drawn out process. You will not get justice for at least a couple of years.
If you feel like a sit down with your boss might do the trick, I would go that route before EEOC or your state's human rights commission.
posted by reenum at 5:29 PM on April 1, 2008
It is tough to get all the information together for this sort of a case, but you'll have to get it all together at some point if you plan on bringing suit. Better to know what documents or evidence your attorney will need to request during discovery.
I was with a law firm that did these sorts of cases. You will not get an attorney to take this case on pure contingency. They will likely have you pay filing fees and administrative costs, as well a portion of the final settlement. Plus, litigation is a long and drawn out process. You will not get justice for at least a couple of years.
If you feel like a sit down with your boss might do the trick, I would go that route before EEOC or your state's human rights commission.
posted by reenum at 5:29 PM on April 1, 2008
What would Karl Rove do?
If your supervisor is in on it, well..
It seems like there are two things. One way, if you're invested in staying there or just getting along for the time it takes to get a better job, maybe you should practice NOT reacting to their BS and giving as good as you get (not call them that name, obv). The more you act offended the more they'll do it. Then it stops & you stick around, or you get a better job and then, eh.. mail them a dead fish. Maybe there is a "dead fish of the month" club you can sign them up for, in fact. The other way, if you're considering building a legal case, you will have to object in clear terms and document it, so that would probably change your reaction. Maybe it would be helpful to respond in a way that carries an undercurrent of "this is lawsuit territory" which might, in and of itself, indicate to your supervisor that he could get himself in deep shit if he keeps it up. Such as darkly hinting at a hostile environment.. (This may be a terrible idea, I'm not a lawyer!)
I have a colleague of my own who's on my radar for saying some pervy things (not directed at me, but sexist) now and then, and for now I'm ignoring and not egging him on, but if it seems like it's going too far I am going to start responding with precise language and documenting what he says. He is a jovial, friendly guy which makes it difficult but sexism is not cool.
Another thing is, well, it's time + money to hire people, and hard to find good employees, isn't it? I think it would be good to have other employment options at hand, and once you have them, basically sit down with the higher ups and say, this is why I am strongly considering leaving this job. Having a workplace culture full of jerks is going to cost you money because good staff will quit! Maybe they will care about that.
posted by citron at 5:57 PM on April 1, 2008
If your supervisor is in on it, well..
It seems like there are two things. One way, if you're invested in staying there or just getting along for the time it takes to get a better job, maybe you should practice NOT reacting to their BS and giving as good as you get (not call them that name, obv). The more you act offended the more they'll do it. Then it stops & you stick around, or you get a better job and then, eh.. mail them a dead fish. Maybe there is a "dead fish of the month" club you can sign them up for, in fact. The other way, if you're considering building a legal case, you will have to object in clear terms and document it, so that would probably change your reaction. Maybe it would be helpful to respond in a way that carries an undercurrent of "this is lawsuit territory" which might, in and of itself, indicate to your supervisor that he could get himself in deep shit if he keeps it up. Such as darkly hinting at a hostile environment.. (This may be a terrible idea, I'm not a lawyer!)
I have a colleague of my own who's on my radar for saying some pervy things (not directed at me, but sexist) now and then, and for now I'm ignoring and not egging him on, but if it seems like it's going too far I am going to start responding with precise language and documenting what he says. He is a jovial, friendly guy which makes it difficult but sexism is not cool.
Another thing is, well, it's time + money to hire people, and hard to find good employees, isn't it? I think it would be good to have other employment options at hand, and once you have them, basically sit down with the higher ups and say, this is why I am strongly considering leaving this job. Having a workplace culture full of jerks is going to cost you money because good staff will quit! Maybe they will care about that.
posted by citron at 5:57 PM on April 1, 2008
Agreeing with others: sarcasm is not to way to deal with this problem.
This may not be the most politically correct advice, but why not find a way to throw it back at them? If they think they are just clowning around, which you may have unintentionally encouraged by saying things like "real professional". Now they think that's just part of the culture of the office. If you can find a way to change the culture away from that to something more constructive and less mean, that would be the most elegant solution.
If that's not your thing, the only other effective solution is to have a polite, casual, closed door sit down with the boss and explain that you just don't like that sort of "jocularity". Explain that while you try to shrug it off, it has become unpleasant. And ask for an official opportunity to talk to the whole staff (or just the few offenders) and tell them all the same thing. Decent people respect a direct conversation far more than any appeals to authority. (Meaning making the boss or the eeoc tell them to stop.)
If that doesn't change things, find a new place to work.
posted by gjc at 9:07 AM on April 2, 2008
This may not be the most politically correct advice, but why not find a way to throw it back at them? If they think they are just clowning around, which you may have unintentionally encouraged by saying things like "real professional". Now they think that's just part of the culture of the office. If you can find a way to change the culture away from that to something more constructive and less mean, that would be the most elegant solution.
If that's not your thing, the only other effective solution is to have a polite, casual, closed door sit down with the boss and explain that you just don't like that sort of "jocularity". Explain that while you try to shrug it off, it has become unpleasant. And ask for an official opportunity to talk to the whole staff (or just the few offenders) and tell them all the same thing. Decent people respect a direct conversation far more than any appeals to authority. (Meaning making the boss or the eeoc tell them to stop.)
If that doesn't change things, find a new place to work.
posted by gjc at 9:07 AM on April 2, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Keep a little journal .... something you can write in at the end of the day with names, things said and how they made you feel.
If you do that with no relief from the company, then you can head to your local EEOC office. It is not much fun but in the end, you've stood up for yourself and ostensibly make it better for those who come behind you. The best case scenario is that the behavior stops. The worst-case scenario is that they make it even more miserable to work there.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I know how hard it is to work with folks who weren't properly raised.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 1:17 PM on April 1, 2008